(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#21301 3 years ago

I still think the JPOP saga would make for good episode of the show American Greed.

IMG_6514 (resized).JPG

#21302 3 years ago

Wonder what someone will pay for a nice looking pin that is basically just s piece of art with lights? Lots of deep pockets in this hobby so im guessing a fair amount just so they can have the bragging rights and cool factor in their collection ...just like bbb that most never play unfortunately. Dont get me wrong id love to have these pins, but im in this hobby to play these toys like they were meant for not just to show off and look at. I have some nice high end expensive restored pins but i play the shit out of them and they are doing just fine.

-5
#21303 3 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

That's you, not me. I wouldn't touch the machines. They are worth exactly $0 to me.

Well we can't all be you, saint wolfie.

How come the guys who say they are "owed" a free magic girl won't answer me when I ask if they got it in writing?

-1
#21304 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

If someone really wanted to pay me an ugodly sum to try to turn their MG into an actual working pinball machine, id consider it and Shame wouldn't be part of the equation

Something tells me "Shame" is NEVER part of the Crazy Levi equation.

#21305 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I don't agree with this at all. Zidware is bankrupt now.
They would have to prove they have the capability of producing Raza and Aiw if the other creditors forced him into Involuntary bankruptcy.
Then the question of preferential payments arise within the 90 day window of filing

Look, not starting a fight, but you just contradicted yourself. "Zidware is bankrupt now." Then "if the other creditors forced him into Involuntary bankruptcy".

So, there has been no bankruptcy filing by JPop, or a forced bankruptcy by creditors, right?

#21306 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Well we can't all be you, saint wolfie.
How come the guys who say they are "owed" a free magic girl won't answer me when I ask if they got it in writing?

They have answered that question (in the affirmative) at least once in this thread. They aren't "free" they are partial payment. Get real.

#21307 3 years ago

God forbid somebuddy makes a dime in this business.

Cointaker is the best distributor in the industry enough said end of story. Any issue I ever had with Stern or Plantery Pinball for that matter was resolved quickly and efficiently. You can buy from them worry free knowing if anything is wrong at all Melissa will move heaven and earth to make it right.

If KPG would've had Melissa in his corner he would have had a new playfeild in the mail before he hung up the phone.(if he still was using an old phone that is .

#21308 3 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Look, not starting a fight, but you just contradicted yourself. "Zidware is bankrupt now." Then "if the other creditors forced him into Involuntary bankruptcy".

Ooooh boy.

#21309 3 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Look, not starting a fight, but you just contradicted yourself. "Zidware is bankrupt now." Then "if the other creditors forced him into Involuntary bankruptcy".
So, there has been no bankruptcy filing by JPop, or a forced bankruptcy by creditors, right?

That's right. Just a civil action so far

John hasn't filed himself because he's is supposedly trying to fulfill his obligations.

He can't do it past MG with what we know now

John could be on the hook for the MG deliveries within 90 days if it's deemed they were preferential payments to the exclusion of the other creditors

Have to file for Involuntary bankruptcy to get there

#21310 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

That's right. Just a civil action so far
John hasn't filed himself because he's is supposedly trying to fulfill his obligations.
He can't do it past MG with what we know now
John could be on the hook for the MG deliveries within 90 days if it's deemed they were preferential payments to the exclusion of the other creditors
Have to file for Involuntary bankruptcy to get there

In other words, all speculation on your part and you know jack shit of the internal situation. I have no knowledge of the inner doings either, but I do know that the fact is there is NO BANKRUPTCY at this point.

Armchair lawyers at their best.

We all share the same personal opinion, JPop needs to be held accountable. However, our emotions do not trump any laws, nor are they fact of the situation.

#21311 3 years ago

MG customers are whole now and its possible RAZA and AIW customers will be next? Isn't this great news?

When it comes to ZY, AJ and other contractors of Zidware, how is that any of our business anyway. If they were wronged and have a case they should contact an attorney and go the legal route.

11
#21312 3 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

MG customers are whole now

Quoted from ZenTron:

are whole now

no (2) (resized).png

#21313 3 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Look, not starting a fight, but you just contradicted yourself. "Zidware is bankrupt now." Then "if the other creditors forced him into Involuntary bankruptcy".
So, there has been no bankruptcy filing by JPop, or a forced bankruptcy by creditors, right?

He should have said "Zidware is insolvent now."

#21314 3 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

In other words, all speculation on your part and you know jack shit of the internal situation. I have no knowledge of the inner doings either, but I do know that the fact is there is NO BANKRUPTCY at this point.
Armchair lawyers at their best.
We all share the same personal opinion, JPop needs to be held accountable. However, our emotions do not trump any laws, nor are they fact of the situation.

No shit. There is no BK at this point.

There could be tomorrow. And that is some jack shit.

Of course it's speculation. Wtf.

Yes good lord. Insolvent and unable to pay its debts. In lay terms F ing bankrupt

#21315 3 years ago

If I had one of these, I'd never even put balls in it. I'd never even press play. Might even leave it in the box. It's just a collectible. Not a game worth playing, from what I've seen.

#21316 3 years ago

It's gotten kinda quiet...I guess all the lucky Magic Girl owners are locked down, playing the shit out of their sweet new machines!

#21317 3 years ago

Some of us have no idea when or if we'll receive MG... Scott did reply but Jpop is no longer replying to me, and I'm awaiting a shipment date.

Until I've received the machine and played it (i.e. to confirm it works), none of this is real.

#21318 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Wonder what someone will pay for a nice looking pin that is basically just s piece of art with lights? Lots of deep pockets in this hobby so im guessing a fair amount just so they can have the bragging rights and cool factor in their collection ...just like bbb that most never play unfortunately. Dont get me wrong id love to have these pins, but im in this hobby to play these toys like they were meant for not just to show off and look at. I have some nice high end expensive restored pins but i play the shit out of them and they are doing just fine.

Earlier in thread I suggested that based on artwork alone, this pin was worth $1k to me. However upon further thought, I concluded that I wouldn't waste precious space on a nonworking pin. So it's worth $0 for me.

#21319 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm only wondering here, aside from the fact that Cointaker lost a big amount of $$$, why did they get 3 MG pins? Did they purchase them up front? I think I recall Chris saying they did buy 1?
What about Yeti, Applejuice and others?
I know John and Cointaker have been long time friends. How was that process handled?
Doesn't it seem a bit dumb not to give the programmer a pin? A guy that certainly would have incentive to finish it up?
But then it does have to actually flip to matter

What $$$ did they lose besides whatever they spent on personal machines? From what I hear they won't provide deposit money back that they took as a distro. The distro is responsible for any payments they take. So, they aren't out that money. The fact they are selling one of their MG pins, but owe deposit money back is unsettling to me.

I guess they sent them some bulbs as well pre-production. I am not sure of the real amount sent tho.

-2
#21320 3 years ago
Quoted from Russell:

If I had one of these, I'd never even put balls in it. I'd never even press play. Might even leave it in the box. It's just a collectible. Not a game worth playing, from what I've seen.

Toyotaboy pointed me at a magic girl podcast by Kaneda,listened to it (i see his name a lot on pinside and no clue why everybody hates him so i figured why not?) and i must say it creeped me out a bit he was whispering the whole time...
But i really know him now:
Appearantly he has magic girl,brenda and a hellcat !
I listened almost half way and found an interesting scentence in there..
He called John's Magic Girl the trojan horse and he could not be more right about that.
Think about it?
Zombieyeti's art opens doors everytime?
It looks like something real awesome if you see it,you let in and shazam!! Magic Jpop is inside your factory!

Nobody is ever going to write custom code for this btw...only 19 machines and most of them will never be played/unboxed..
So who is gonna write custom code for like the 7 machines that will actually be played?

But!
We still haven't seen a gameplay vid,let's be positive

#21321 3 years ago
Quoted from jrivelli:

What $$$ did they lose besides whatever they spent on personal machines? From what I hear they won't provide deposit money back that they took as a distro. The distro is responsible for any payments they take. So, they aren't out that money. The fact they are selling one of their MG pins, but owe deposit money back is unsettling to me.

Did they remit 100% of the money they took in on the special edition RAZAs to JPop? I can no longer recall the particulars.

#21322 3 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Did they remit 100% of the money they took in on the special edition RAZAs to JPop? I can no longer recall the particulars.

I'm not 100% sure. I just know of a local friend who used them to order since he knew they were a reputable company. When he contacted them for a refund on his deposit only that he paid to them they would not send it.

#21323 3 years ago

Did someone say 45k ?? Holy hell dream much. People that are rich are usually that way for a very good reason they are smart. This grail ART hype is just that. hYpe nothing more. With a great story. Nope it's a sad sad story.

Now if it was a functional pinball game or a functional liqueur cabinet, then maybe you could get something.

But if it costs an extra 50k to get some decent code done and make it into a real pin then you'll be losing money.

I look at it as a big losers throphy something I really would be ashamed of. And to have to look at it everyday as a reminder of a scammer and lots of hopes for something cool shattered. Nope I don't see it.

I can almost bet if it's as bad as reported there will only be MG bonfire party's this summer and nothing more. God I hope I get invited that would be the best party in a long time.

#21324 3 years ago

I think with everything that has come to light (Game has not changed since Pintasia, no effort made to get past vendors back on board or squared up, the game ultimately is an unplayable shiny turd) this has everything to do with the lawsuit, not about John thinking delivering this was delivering on his grand vision.

#21325 3 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

Did someone say 45k ?? Holy hell dream much. People that are rich are usually that way for a very good reason they are smart.

You must not know many rich people. I have met tons of rich idiots.

#21326 3 years ago

Could code even fix this game? The geometry seems f'd up.

If it was just code, I could see someone finishing it and charging owners a substantial fee to get it. I could be way off but if you were a MG owner would you pay an additional 5k for complete code. 16k machine + 5k for complete code. In it for 21k but the machines value would go through the roof.

#21327 3 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Did they remit 100% of the money they took in on the special edition RAZAs to JPop? I can no longer recall the particulars.

I don't recall the exact details either at this point. It's somewhere in this massive thread. I think Cointaker fronted John a bunch of $$$ for the Cointaker version and not just customer funds?

Six figures is what i remember about the conversation.

#21328 3 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

Did someone say 45k ?? Holy hell dream much. People that are rich are usually that way for a very good reason they are smart. This grail ART hype is just that. hYpe nothing more. With a great story.

Private sales from collectors on prototype pinball machines already exceeded $45K in the past for a single title. This would not be a new record. It has nothing to do with education, common sense, or intelligence.

If you relate in context to other types of collectibles, this can be considered pocket change. If a general collector is interested in seeing the extents of what people pay for all sorts of collectibles visit Christies, Sothebys, or Doyles websites which all their main offices are located in New York.

Magic Girl (working or not) would be an excellent canidate for a public or registered auction.

-3
#21329 3 years ago

What about ap? They built the game. Contract or not. They do bear some responsibility for all this mess. They entered into a business agreement with jpop. So even after they tried to distance themselves they still built this game. So, is anyone here still looking to buy a Houdini?

#21330 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Wonder what someone will pay for a nice looking pin that is basically just s piece of art with lights? Lots of deep pockets in this hobby so im guessing a fair amount just so they can have the bragging rights and cool factor in their collection ...just like bbb that most never play unfortunately.

Thing is with BBB - you CAN play it! I've played it a ton...everything works great, and it's a lot of fun. It's pretty and functional. It was a fully realized game & piece of commercial equipment. Same with Kingpin, King Kong, and most of the other rare pins. Sure you can argue any of these games could have used a few more months of programming - but as they stand, they play fine and all their features work. If MG just flips but generally doesn't work as intended ...I'm not sure what the desire to own one would be. If you really must have "Jpop Art"...CV, TOM, and TOTAN are available. They look AND play great!

#21331 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Same with Kingpin, King Kong, and most of the other rare pins.

There's a few Wizard Block whitewoods that would like to talk to you about that...

12
#21332 3 years ago

Well this is just all alittle bizarre for me now. However as the original programmer I offer the following as a few basic things you can do to check the operation of your game:

1) enter service mode and check operation of feature lamps, switches, coils
2) start an arcade game and light LOCK lamps, then lock a ball up the ramp
3) complete the potion lamps by hitting the potion spinner and targets
4) complete lion saw by hitting the lion saw targets. Lion saw spins
5) advance bonus x via the kings/queens lanes
6) enter tesla subway and hear him speak to you
7) activate hare magnet jet bumper from hare target
8) activate jinx wheel from central rollovers

This should NOT be a box of blinky lights as is repeatedly mentioned. Though maybe I'm just talking to myself....

I have no game and no way to check what was shipped currently. For owners I may try to expand the rule sheet with more info on magicgirlcode.org

#21333 3 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

Well this is just all alittle bizarre for me now. However as the original programmer I offer the following as a few basic things you can do to check the operation of your game:
1) enter service mode and check operation of feature lamps, switches, coils
2) start an arcade game and light LOCK lamps, then lock a ball up the ramp
3) complete the potion lamps by hitting the potion spinner and targets
4) complete lion saw by hitting the lion saw targets. Lion saw spins
5) advance bonus x via the kings/queens lanes
6) enter tesla subway and hear him speak to you
7) activate hare magnet jet bumper from hare target
activate jinx wheel from central rollovers
This should NOT be a box of blinky lights as is repeatedly mentioned. Though maybe I'm just talking to myself....
I have no game and no way to check what was shipped currently. For owners I may try to expand the rule sheet with more info on magicgirlcode.org

Yeah it's a bit puzzling to me how so many people repeat the box of blinky lights thing in light of what you've said--doubly so as a fellow programmer.

#21334 3 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

There's a few Wizard Block whitewoods that would like to talk to you about that...

I played Wizard Blocks and it's awesome! Unfinished, yes. But really playable and fun. It's a known whitewood, though. Are we considering Magic Girls unfinished prototype whitewoods with art?

16
#21335 3 years ago
Quoted from mrgone:

So, is anyone here still looking to buy a Houdini?

In positive comparative evaluation to pinball industry manufacturers:

American Pinball proved they could accomplish building a game for credibility purposes, even though the game "does not work" out of the box. Some owners will not care. If a programmer was given proper incentive, this game could be fixed, but it is not just the coding that needs to be completed, as you also need a combined team of engineers beside the programmer to fix mechanical aspects that do not properly work. $500 per owner is not going to be enough to correct problems, unless people volunteer time and efforts.

They showed their dedication to the industry even though MG was a !#[email protected] sandwich, but did not throw it away.

They showed they can negotiate legal matters and licenses.

They have established production facilities.

They have successfully outsourced parts creation and contracts.

They accomplished more in six months than some manufacturers have done in 2-3 years, which is no small joke, if a person is savvy regarding pinball construction.

They have hired respected designers and experienced members of industry for Houdini for their first flagship title.

They have reached out and found new talent for artwork.

They have appropriate investors for financial security.

They are using modern technology for production.

Yes, I would consider a purchase a new game under the same evaluation pinball criteria I have used for decades. Test play the game, read professional reviews, and buy when the game is released not revealed. This is the proper method to being an informed consumer and pinball buyer. People need to just look beyond pure emotion.

Good luck, American Pinball, there are many milestones left to go, but they are not insurmountable.
Older collectors are still watching, mostly out of curiousity, but not necessarily negative.

#21336 3 years ago

Just an idea but why don't the magic girl recipients chip in $500 each and pay directly to the programmer. Hire the programmer to finish the code. Hell if the programmer is willing, this is a no brainer decision.

-4
#21337 3 years ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

Just an idea but why don't the magic girl recipients chip in $500 each and pay directly to the programmer. Hire the programmer to finish the code. Hell if the programmer is willing, this is a no brainer decision.

That's a great idea that surely 30 others haven't already suggested.

I have a hunch the issues with this game go far beyond code.

#21338 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That's a great idea that surely 30 others haven't already suggested.
I have a hunch the issues with this game go far beyond code.

Great minds think alike! Wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

#21339 3 years ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

Just an idea but why don't the magic girl recipients chip in $500 each and pay directly to the programmer. Hire the programmer to finish the code. Hell if the programmer is willing, this is a no brainer decision.

I need a game though and this is one of the main points. Jpop shafted me on receiving one aswell as the contract cash.

Summary is : someone send me a game and I'll happily check everything and discuss options for going forward from where I left the code

#21340 3 years ago

I would by Houdini... provided;

It's 100% done, not half baked.
It had nothing to do with JPop.
It was reasonably priced.
I had a chance to see / play it.
Kerry

#21341 3 years ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

Just an idea but why don't the magic girl recipients chip in $500 each and pay directly to the programmer. Hire the programmer to finish the code. Hell if the programmer is willing, this is a no brainer decision.

applejuice has said that he needs a game (or I would guess at least a populated playfield) to assess what needs finishing in the code (if anything).

ETA: Dang... replied after applejuice himself did. Refresh page.

#21342 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Thing is with BBB - you CAN play it! I've played it a ton...everything works great, and it's a lot of fun. It's pretty and functional. It was a fully realized game & piece of commercial equipment. Same with Kingpin, King Kong, and most of the other rare pins. Sure you can argue any of these games could have used a few more months of programming - but as they stand, they play fine and all their features work. If MG just flips but generally doesn't work as intended ...I'm not sure what the desire to own one would be. If you really must have "Jpop Art"...CV, TOM, and TOTAN are available. They look AND play great!

I agree ive played bbb and like it. I dont think u understood what i was trying to say. What i was trying to say is that most people that buy bbb rarely ever play them bc they are afraid of lowering its value...thats the people that will probably pay big money to own a mg because they dont care about playing as much as the collectibility factor, bragging rights and the cool factor. I have some valuable restored pins that i play alot bc that's what they are for......

#21343 3 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

There is one glaring omission here, JPop is not in bankruptcy. Zidware/JPop just produced 19 machines. No judge is going to force bankruptcy at this point.

That really isn't a determining factor. In fact, it's one of the reasons why the involuntary process exists.. because a debtor maybe paying some people... (because its advantageous for them to do so.. like.. putting out a machine) but refusing or unable to pay other creditors. They could also be forced in due to "generally not be paying its debts as they become due" -- which we know is a huge issue for zidware.

You can be creating output while still unable or willing to pay your bills... or be insolvent.

Its still risky trying to force this topic due to the liability that happens if your petition fails. They can also find the petition was filed in 'bad faith' even if the petition requirements are met. Some casual reading on that topic - https://www.law360.com/bankruptcy/articles/718749/a-cautionary-tale-for-involuntary-bankruptcy-petitioners

Now that zidware is 'shipping' games, that's a lot of creditors that magically disappear. Disagreements over the game or the labor disputes could also fall under being debts under dispute... so I'm not really sure how all that would fall out.

-1
#21344 3 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

There's a few Wizard Block whitewoods that would like to talk to you about that...

well you pointed out your own contradiction.... 'whitewoods' vs rare games.

#21345 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

What i was trying to say is that most people that buy bbb rarely ever play them bc they are afraid of lowering its value...

Not from my experience. Do they all take them to shows? No, but I've never seen one walled off by velvet ropes or left off for fear of playing them.

Half the people on pinside probably don't put up enough games on the counter for such 'fears'. Meanwhile, my games got over 1000-1300 plays each at Magfest in a single weekend as I put them out for others to enjoy.. because others did it before me so I could enjoy games I didn't own.

#21346 3 years ago

It is yet to be seen whether Magic Girl is:

(A) A game with a complete and reasonable physical layout which could function if there was more code.
(B) A game with a fundamentally flawed physical layout that would not function even if it had more code.

However, most of the evidence at this stage seems to point that (B) is more likely:

-John had not been involved in the creation of a functioning layout since his Williams days (and it is unclear how responsible John was for the layout of 'his' Williams games).
-The game at the NW pinball show did not have a functioning layout.
-The Houdini layout show at Expo (created by John) did not have a functioning layout.
-The early videos of the new MG games (on the Zidware website) have not shown any evidence a fully functioning layout.
-Cointaker has not posting any videos of MG functioning even though they are trying to sell one.
-Kaneda has reported that the game does not function (he may have information from those who have games in their possession (e.g. Cointaker)

If the game is indeed (B) then it is a very different case to rare games like BBB, Kingpin, King Kong and even Wizard Blocks, which all have a functioning layout.

#21347 3 years ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

However, most of the evidence at this stage seems to point that (A) is more likely:

You meant B, right?

#21348 3 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

You meant B, right?

Thanks

#21349 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

most people that buy bbb rarely ever play them bc they are afraid of lowering its value

I've had children standing on a stool play my BBB.

#21350 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Not from my experience. Do they all take them to shows? No, but I've never seen one walled off by velvet ropes or left off for fear of playing them.
Half the people on pinside probably don't put up enough games on the counter for such 'fears'. Meanwhile, my games got over 1000-1300 plays each at Magfest in a single weekend as I put them out for others to enjoy.. because others did it before me so I could enjoy games I didn't own.

What are u talking about velvet ropes and shit? Most not all bbb are pretty low play from what ive seen and ones that have seen play sell for less because of a few imperfections. Look at the one in tenn few months ago that wasn't perfect . It took a bit to sell at a great price with lots of extras . For this reason many owners of them tend not to play them as much as other pins in their collection from what ive seen. If i had one it wld get same play as rest my collection bc thats whst they are meant for. However lots people just collect nice pins and rarely play them which sucks but they can do as they want..

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