(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#1751 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Off topic, but what happened exactly with TBL

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dp-usa-refund-still-want-the-game?tu=phil-dp-usa

That's the recap version. Phil runs Dutch Pinball USA and wants out because of various shenanigans, to put it mildly.

Anyway, yeah off topic

#1752 4 years ago

So, can someone confirm there is a MG reveal this week? I've seen nothing more about it.

#1753 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

TBL showed just how messy things can be behind the scenes.

At this point at least DP have actually shown playable product and have delivered at least some of the BOP kits, and done it in an amazingly short time frame. Plus I believe that they have requested (to Phil) to continue paying invoices. So at LEAST it sounds like things are better off from a supplier/vendor standpoint in TBL land than they are in MG/RAZA land.

You guys still have one more day to wait to see if the latest reveal date holds out. Can't wait to see how that plays out.

#1754 4 years ago

I just spoke with a real MG owner, and he doesn't have a clue what is happening. He's completely in the dark.

If there is something going on this week, I guess the game will be shown to a few people at the shop, but this is not much of a reveal.

#1755 4 years ago

"Come down to the shop, see the shiny things and you'll forget all your troubles for the next couple of months."

#1756 4 years ago

I find it hard to believe all the talk about pins 3 and 4 when game 1 hasn't even been revealed much less delivered. Even Stern, who can deliver 3 themes/year is smart enough to refrain from announcing 2 games ahead. Considering all MG are spoken for I'm still baffled at the secrecy.

#1757 4 years ago

"Please put on these fish eye lens glasses for the big reveal."

#1758 4 years ago

Where is the reveal date coming from and when is it?

#1759 4 years ago

Looking around John's many websites and came across another project taking time away from projects for which he has been paid. This has been shown to owners of RAZA, but I did not realize that it was going to be a separate product/project.

http://www.pinballtruss.com

Maybe this is what he meant when he referred to the Makerbot pinball in the NYU interview.

#1760 4 years ago

WTH? I wonder if part of it is that lighting truss he built for the KISS prototype.

#1761 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

Looking around John's many websites and came across another project taking time away from projects for which he has been paid. This has been shown to owners of RAZA, but I did not realize that it was going to be a separate product/project.
http://www.pinballtruss.com
Maybe this is what he meant when he referred to the Makerbot pinball in the NYU interview.

Maybe he couldn't start making the games until this was finished? Since this would be making all the parts in the game?

#1762 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

WTH? I wonder if part of it is that lighting truss he built for the KISS prototype.

Yeah, that's what it is. It's heinously ugly, IMHO.

#1763 4 years ago

3D printing is great for pinball prototyping. I print ramps, ball guides, brackets and even PCB footprint models for sizing. Not industrial strength but great for bringing your ideas to light.

IMG_8471.jpg
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Aaron
FAST Pinball

#1764 4 years ago

Aaron how did you manage that ramp? It's in sections I presume?

#1765 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Aaron how did you manage that ramp? It's in sections I presume?

Yep. That is a ramp from Predator. My buddy Kevin was kind enough to let me use a file to test the process. I have since hacked it up to use on Minecraft.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#1766 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

This thread makes me want to start using Acid. Pure insanity!

I just choked on my diet coke reading that and woke up my fiancé. Funny stuff.

#1767 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

This thread makes me want to start using Acid. Pure insanity!

Especially after that trek up to New York for the big TBL party right!

#1768 4 years ago

1 day 10 hours 8 minutes until this ship lifts off or blows up on the launch pad.

-5
#1769 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

1 day 10 hours 8 minutes until this ship lifts off or blows up on the launch pad.

I think John will show something, doesn't have to be a full game reveal, but some of the curtain will be pulled back. And it's not all or nothing anymore. Dutch showed a full game and look where they are now? I'll take whatever new bit of Magic Girl is ready to be shown.

#1770 4 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

I think John will show something, doesn't have to be a full game reveal, but some of the curtain will be pulled back. And it's not all or nothing anymore. Dutch showed a full game and look where they are now? I'll take whatever new bit of Magic Girl is ready to be shown.

Oh it's all or nothing all right. A non-playable game = death.

#1771 4 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

I think John will show something, doesn't have to be a full game reveal, but some of the curtain will be pulled back. And it's not all or nothing anymore. Dutch showed a full game and look where they are now? I'll take whatever new bit of Magic Girl is ready to be shown.

The time for bits has passed. The game should have been showed at expo. The mob formed and John promised a reveal in December. It's the eleventh hour and the clock is ticking. For all my cricticism I have been a supporter both financially and sympathetically but...

image.jpg

#1772 4 years ago

coming soon jpops christmas reveal...fingers crossed for you guys.

jpops christmas reveal.jpg
#1773 4 years ago

I've heard from some other MG owners that there is no public reveal this week. Some of them will get to see it.

I'm going to guess that until the first owner receives their first production machine, no one else will see it. Dunno when that might be, dunno what that means for us raza buyers.

Looking at the RAZA timetable from the owner's package, proto samples and building is slotted for the last 6 months. So not sure if that means MG will exist as a prototype for 6 months. So perhaps that means MG owners might start receiving their games in the last half of 2015.

If there's a raza reveal in january, possibly the game is around the same stage, and we'd have around 6 months before the first owners see their machines? but then there's the question as to how long all of this will take to produce.

So I guess our earlier guesses for 2016 delivery are probably accurate. It's unfortunate we're left guessing like we have been.

If MG owners are told anything more about the actual production, I'd love to hear it.

#1775 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I've heard from some other MG owners that there is no public reveal this week. Some of them will get to see it.
I'm going to guess that until the first owner receives their first production machine, no one else will see it. Dunno when that might be, dunno what that means for us raza buyers.
Looking at the RAZA timetable from the owner's package, proto samples and building is slotted for the last 6 months. So not sure if that means MG will exist as a prototype for 6 months. So perhaps that means MG owners might start receiving their games in the last half of 2015.
If there's a raza reveal in january, possibly the game is around the same stage, and we'd have around 6 months before the first owners see their machines? but then there's the question as to how long all of this will take to produce.
So I guess our earlier guesses for 2016 delivery are probably accurate. It's unfortunate we're left guessing like we have been.
If MG owners are told anything more about the actual production, I'd love to hear it.

We are at Johns mercy right now because he has our money. Real soon he is going to be wanting that last RAZA installment (ie the MG BOM). That's where the leverage comes in.

I know of at least two other MG owners that might just go full "Phil" if this Magic Girl reveal is anything less than expected so I wouldn't worry too much about not getting details.

#1776 4 years ago

We'll find out soon if John will be a hero... or a pariah.

Even if he comes off well in the next day/week/month he still needs to finish and manufacture the damn games.

If this turns out to be another "secret" reveal... good luck. You will need it.

13
#1777 4 years ago

Serious question, does anyone know of a single other industry that operates like all these pinball companies? This is so f'd up.

I set incredibly high standards for my own business' customer communication. We hustle our asses off for them. We have to work that hard because that is what it takes to keep the customers happy and loyal to us. In turn, I do well, well enough to buy pinball machines.

I know without a doubt, if I ran my biz like ANY of these companies... the "radio silence", the ignoring questions they don't want to answer, the missed deadlines and no updated timetables, all the while paying up front and years in advance. There is no way I'd be in business.

John, if you're reading this... THIS is why I am short with you. I mean, sheeesh.

#1778 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Serious question, does anyone know of a single other industry that operates like all these pinball companies?

No. Not that I have ever seen.

And I've never seen people so eager to pay money for something that doesn't exist either.

That's not a dig at you JPOP guys ... It's across the board, Predator, TBL, the lot of them.

It all just seems insane to me.

Even I (shock! Horror!) prepaid for a Whitewater Topper on the promise that I would have it shipped within a few weeks. Well, 18 months later I still haven't got it and the guy has gone AWOL. At least it was only $150 but still exactly the same scenario.

It's as though everyone has the "Iceman Syndrome" hahaha!!

rd.

#1779 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Serious question, does anyone know of a single other industry that operates like all these pinball companies? This is so f'd up.

It probably runs similar to custom car/bike/yacht shops, who typically run on reputation for quality and delivery, but they all need to start somewhere. Collector-investors are interested in exclusivity and are willing to pay up for it... player collectors want a great full featured game and are also willing to pay for something astounding. Those emotions make it easy for a seasoned and well known designer to get money up front. The mystery is why so many are throwing money at boutique shops that don't have that history.

That's the niche market though, as reality is most buyers are willing to sacrifice exclusivity for lower pricing and faster delivery, which is Stern's advantage.

#1780 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

Looking around John's many websites and came across another project taking time away from projects for which he has been paid. This has been shown to owners of RAZA, but I did not realize that it was going to be a separate product/project.
http://www.pinballtruss.com
Maybe this is what he meant when he referred to the Makerbot pinball in the NYU interview.

It seems to me, more and more, that John is nothing more than an idea guy who just can't see anything through. This pinballtruss domain is a perfect example. John has taken the time to put up a website with a link to his profile on the makerbot thingiverse but, just about like every other website he has, it is just a road to nowhere. I fear that John is traveling down this road and about to hit the dead end.

#1781 4 years ago

We need to keep the pressure on John guys! I posted on the blog last night, I think if the owners go quiet on the blog John takes that as an all clear to go back to design mode rather than finish the F#cking game mode.
So if you are on the blog don't be shy, post some motivational thoughts for JPOP!

#1782 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

We need to keep the pressure on John guys! I posted on the blog last night, I think if the owners go quiet on the blog John takes that as an all clear to go back to design mode rather than finish the F#cking game mode.
So if you are on the blog don't be shy, post some motivational thoughts for JPOP!

U should be fearfull of when he shows this amazing game this month. People will become delearious over how amazing it is, and it will buy him more time. But what if he doesn't get to building them for another year. What if he keeps tweaking and refining what he shows u this month for another 12 months.... Honestly, I know it's going to be art!!!! But I still think he's a year away from actually building the 40 plus mg games...

#1783 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

U should be fearfull of when he shows this amazing game this month. People will become delearious over how amazing it is, and it will buy him more time. But what if he doesn't get to building them for another year. What if he keeps tweaking and refining what he shows u this month for another 12 months.... Honestly, I know it's going to be art!!!! But I still think he's a year away from actually building the 40 plus mg games...

I think he is a year away from starting to build the games at the very best. Hopefully, with all of the drama we have seen lately, everyone will wise up and withhold any and all additional payments for all three games until delivery. The outcome of that could go a couple of ways; it will either light a fire under JPOP's ass and he will define a timeline and start to build right away or he will be forced to admit the financial shortcoming of the project (if they exist, and I am not saying that they do) and Zidware will be finished. If the second scenario plays out, I don't think not withholding funds would make any difference. I share your fear that he is bargaining for more time here. After the post-expo uproar, he promised a project manager would be brought in and that he was looking for more muscle to help produce the games. Has he followed up on either of those? I think the first priority of a project manager would be to establish a clearly defined timeline. Has anyone seen a recently updated one?

#1784 4 years ago

#1785 4 years ago

I found a couple of new images ...well they're from 2012 but so far I haven't seen them as of now.

She's hot.
An the bunny, well... it's a bunny.

MG_steps.jpg MG_rabbitman.jpg MG_magic girl.jpg
#1787 4 years ago

And please John, move your @$$ and show something finished to your 'clients' ...and to the public too, please!

#1788 4 years ago

image.jpg

I don't think this photo has been shared but it is on the mailchimp sign up page on the pinball inventor web page.

Trying to navigate the many dead ends and dead links and unfinished pages of the website seems indicative of johns scattershot, poorly organized approach to making things.

#1789 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

rying to navigate the many dead ends and dead links and unfinished pages of the website seems indicative of johns scattershot, poorly organized approach to making things.

Agreed...And for the record, I think John is a hell of a designer whose heart is in the right place. If there is any lesson to be learned from all of the recent drama with the boutique manufacturers, it is that having a business plan and a solid business-only partner are absolutely essential things to have in place when ANYONE decides to go from conceptually thinking about building a pinball machine to actually stating the intent to do so. This becomes more paramount to anything else when you start taking monetary funds form customers.

#1790 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

We need to keep the pressure on John guys! I posted on the blog last night, I think if the owners go quiet on the blog John takes that as an all clear to go back to design mode rather than finish the F#cking game mode.
So if you are on the blog don't be shy, post some motivational thoughts for JPOP!

Please we need some more voices, and thank you to those that have chimed in.

#1791 4 years ago

At this point the owners are likely the only ones who have any means to pressure John to get things done. And I'm not talking about "just finishing a game" but also dealing with the supplier/vendor issues that are currently ongoing.

#1792 4 years ago
Quoted from GLModular:

And I'm not talking about "just finishing a game" but also dealing with the supplier/vendor issues that are currently ongoing.

I think that's something the masses seem to be overlooking. There are so many steps from concept to "machine in your gameroom." Even getting one completed working game done isn't enough to make delivery on 10 - 15 machines.

He could completely finish the designs and still not deliver. (Not just John, all of the boutique guys.)

#1793 4 years ago
Quoted from GLModular:

At this point the owners are likely the only ones who have any means to pressure John to get things done. And I'm not talking about "just finishing a game" but also dealing with the supplier/vendor issues that are currently ongoing.

I'd like to help apply that pressure but I don't know any of the details. He doesn't share details of the game we paid for so he definitely isn't sharing vendor/supplier issues with us. Post them and I'll ask on the dev blog.

#1794 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

But I still think he's a year away from actually building the 40 plus mg games...

haha, only one??

#1795 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

1 day 10 hours 8 minutes until this ship lifts off or blows up on the launch pad.

LOL a JPOP clock! What a tension builder.

#1796 4 years ago

Question for you guys with a horse in the race. If a full game isn't revealed what's your next move? I'm sure John knows the pressure, but would you back out at this point? Hold on?

#1797 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Serious question, does anyone know of a single other industry that operates like all these pinball companies? This is so f'd up.

If we are just talking about slipped schedules and things costing more than expected.. sure .. it happens all the time in engineering; the "Unknown Unknowns". Especially SW development. We are a consulting firm and we use a diagram like this when we first meet a client because we want to be up front that any estimate (schedule or cost) at the beginning is not to be taken literally. We don't always win contracts though because we are up front about it.... vs.. everyone else pretending slips and overruns don't happen.

Diagram from microsoft. Says there is lots of uncertainty at beginning of a project that slowly resolves itself as you go forward

Communications, Disorganization - on top of the above, that's pinball

#1798 4 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

Question for you guys with a horse in the race. If a full game isn't revealed what's your next move? I'm sure John knows the pressure, but would you back out at this point? Hold on?

This will be the interesting point in the future. Right now, john has half of the money for the Raza machines. Given the delays and cost increases that have resulted from the delays, at some point he will either need to pre-sell a fourth or fifth machine or he will need the other $500,000 from the Raza buyers. I can't imagine that many raza buyers are willing to sink in the other $5,000 at this point. Based on posts from two of his vendors, he currently can not pay his bills so I doubt he can afford to pay the bom to produce each machine. Even if he got outside funding, he would have to clear up his debts to and relationships with his vendors.

I already consider my first $5,000 basically lost and I am not going to give him any more. He will either just not produce my machine or he will need to find another buyer. His silence in the face of the questions being posed has eroded my confidence and the confidence of other potential buyers. His bad business practices have cost him many of the 130 loyal raza customers and have likely scared off many others who were considering getting in on a machine in the future.

Will he eventually be stuck with a RAZA that only sells 25 units because no one will send him the rest of the money? He would serve himself well to go above and beyond to provide service to the people who put him into business in the first place. Instead, he has created a loss of confidence that becomes like a bank run. No one is going to deposit more money with him and he will eventually be stuck without some outside financing.

The people I feel bad for are the guys making wooly. They have acted responsibly by setting the price high enough that they can afford to make the machine. They have partnered with spooky which actually produces working machines. They also said they will not produce unless the market will support them selling 100 machines. Unfortunately, their responsible approach has likely stalled given the recent problems with the other boutique pinball companies.

-8
#1799 4 years ago

Wow
The amount of negativity, wrong information spoken as facts, and just plain bullshit is sickening.
DRAIN topic

Good luck ladies and gents

#1800 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

We need to keep the pressure on John guys! I posted on the blog last night, I think if the owners go quiet on the blog John takes that as an all clear to go back to design mode rather than finish the F#cking game mode.
So if you are on the blog don't be shy, post some motivational thoughts for JPOP!

I know he reads the blog (sometimes) he has specifically responded to my prior posts, but if I post something about what's the timeline or can I have a refund it's totally ignored.

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