(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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12
#1651 4 years ago

I'm tired of people saying, "Do you want them working on pinball or spending time replying to e-mails and sending updates?!"

They aren't working on an assembly line. It's not like "you would have had this pinball machine a year ago if not for me having to answer the 15 e-mails I got yesterday!"

For a couple of hours, while you're sitting there doing nothing waiting for flipper bats to arrive from wherever, answer some e-mails. Each day, take 2 minutes to take a snapshot of whatever it is you're working on and post it to facebook.

Saying they're so busy working on pinball that they can't communicate rings as hollow as that friend that never calls and when you see them at a party they say, "I would have called but hmmm yea... Soooo crazy busy...."

#1652 4 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

Saying they're so busy working on pinball that they can't communicate rings as hollow as that friend that never calls and when you see them at a party they say, "I would have called but hmmm yea... Soooo crazy busy...."

Yeah, basically this. We aren't saying "come and spend all day on pinside". It's "the project is a year late, we'd like an updated timetable".

Well, that exact question was asked 2 months ago (well, asked many times, but specifically then) and 2 months later still nothing.

#1653 4 years ago

Maybe add that nil responses are required, Jpop might be thinking that because he doesn't have an updated timeline he has nothing to post

As an aside I am one of the armchair supporters hoping that things get worked out eventually for the MG, RAZA and AIW investors and watch this thread with interest, good luck to all parties.

#1654 4 years ago

It applies to the Predator guys too. Too busy working to respond to e-mails or to send updates.

#1655 4 years ago

I guess I'd add that if that's the case, Charlie is super-human because he's managing to do all of that, and a podcast, and actually ship pinball machines. We should study that guy's DNA because compared to everyone else he's super human.

#1656 4 years ago

Yeah Charlie and the Spooky crew are definitely gods amongst men. Ben Heck deserves a lot of credit as well for knowing how to get things done. Him leaving this game hasn't helped.

#1657 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Yeah Charlie and the Spooky crew are definitely gods amongst men. Ben Heck deserves a lot of credit as well for knowing how to get things done. Him leaving this game hasn't helped.

It's amazing. Charlie and Ben are so low-drama and humble guys when it comes to handling customers, complaints, and issues that even as a non-customer and someone unlikely to play their games outside of conventions in the coming year, I have nothing but positive things to say about them.

#1658 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Yeah Charlie and the Spooky crew are definitely gods amongst men. Ben Heck deserves a lot of credit as well for knowing how to get things done. Him leaving this game hasn't helped.

I don't know about gods, but they just have the intestinal fortitude to man up and get the f#%king job done.

The older I get, the more I discover most people just aren't prepared to "get the job done". I could regale the group with plentiful stories .. But I'll spare you.

Someone said above that the JPOP games have reportedly had 3000 hours spent on the artwork.

Now, working that out, that's claiming that someone sat at a computer/pad NON STOP for 75 full 40 hour working weeks. That seems pretty unfeasible to me.

75 working weeks, you should be churning the freaking machines out the door.

rd.

#1659 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Ben Heck deserves a lot of credit as well for knowing how to get things done. Him leaving this game hasn't helped.

I don't think Jpop is capable of letting someone help him to be honest. Everyone I know who's tried has bailed because he's impossible. You guys should have just pooled your money and paid for the same artists that Jpop is using to work with Spooky, and you'd already have your pin fully working and looking great.

#1660 4 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Someone said above that the JPOP games have reportedly had 3000 hours spent on the artwork.

That was figured using the same calculator that claims Jpop has 30 years of experience building pinballs.

#1661 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I don't know why every boutique pin manufacturer takes the same page from the same playbook and goes dark with the "well, I can either spend all day answering your questions or I can work on the pin, what do you want?".

There are three simple reasons for this:

1) Skit-B and JPop are both one-man-shows.

2) They already have your money.

3) They know there are more people who are afraid to miss out on these pins than people who will get sick of everything and bail. (Although, I think that both of them are actually on the verge of losing even this battle.)

If it wasn't for Pinside, you buyers would have almost zero leverage to get much of anything from them. Keep posting until you get what you want and what you were promised. They got what they wanted from you long ago...

#1662 4 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

I don't know about gods, but they just have the intestinal fortitude to man up and get the f#%king job done.
The older I get, the more I discover most people just aren't prepared to "get the job done". I could regale the group with plentiful stories .. But I'll spare you.
Someone said above that the JPOP games have reportedly had 3000 hours spent on the artwork.
Now, working that out, that's claiming that someone sat at a computer/pad NON STOP for 75 full 40 hour working weeks. That seems pretty unfeasible to me.
75 working weeks, you should be churning the freaking machines out the door.
rd.

I love the "man up and get the f#%king job done" attitude, but there needs to be some balance as well. I think Andrew Heighway has this attitude, but it may have led to the departure of Dennis Nordman from the company.

#1663 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I don't think Jpop is capable of letting someone help him to be honest. Everyone I know who's tried has bailed because he's impossible.

This.

#1664 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I don't think Jpop is capable of letting someone help him to be honest. Everyone I know who's tried has bailed because he's impossible.

That was my brief experience.

#1665 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I don't think Jpop is capable of letting someone help him to be honest. Everyone I know who's tried has bailed because he's impossible.

I know of one person that offered to work on some stuff for him years ago and they had some tentative agreement and after some very loose terms and visiting the workshop a few times.. couldn't ever get a sense of organization, no formal terms locked down ($ for work), felt he couldn't risk his livelihood on such loosey-goosey-ness so went back to doing his day job.

He still hopes JPOP succeeds as he too was impressed by the workshop / JPOP "the artist". This was years ago, and second hand, and past performance is no guarantee of future results.*

*sometimes they are at least a good hint

#1666 4 years ago

This story is much more common and widespread than anyone has admitted to publicly.

#1667 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

That was figured using the same calculator that claims Jpop has 30 years of experience building pinballs.

I think so.

The funny thing is, from the start, people bought into this whole thing because of the "great games" JPOP designed for Bally Williams in the 1990s.

I was shopping up my Theatre of Magic last weekend, and if you look down the bottom left hand side, it lists like 10-15 people involved with the game.

Then, on the inside of the plastic ramp (top left hand side) there is a piece of paper taped in there which thanks another 10-15 odd people who had input to the game. Steve Ritchie was one of the names there.

So a crew of 100s designed/made/built TOM ... I don't know how one dude is going to do it without a crew of motivated workers to focus him and get the job done.

I really hope the reveal is good ... It's due this coming Wednesday isn't it?

rd.

#1668 4 years ago

The day coming... Or not !

#1669 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I love the "man up and get the f#%king job done" attitude, but there needs to be some balance as well. I think Andrew Heighway has this attitude, but it may have led to the departure of Dennis Nordman from the company.

No idea of the situation at Heighway, and probably only those two guys do. The reality of one guy living in the USA and the machine being built in Wales is probably a big factor, I would think. Maybe Dennis didn't want to commit to moving to Wales for 3 months solid. Dunno!

Not related to the above discussion, but as a business owner, you soon discover that not everyone is as motivated as you to "get the f#%king job done" In fact, a lot of business owners I know can't get the f#%king job done themselves!! They'd rather go fishing.

I prefer to go fishing after the f#%king job is done ... Then I don't have to worry about it any more.

rd.

#1670 4 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

If it wasn't for Pinside, you buyers would have almost zero leverage to get much of anything from them. Keep posting until you get what you want and what you were promised.

The public shaming worked a little bit around expo. It seems like the only tool we have if our responses on the private blog don't go answered.

-1
#1671 4 years ago

Maybe if all you "owners" bash the shit out of him again, he will trickle you out another little apology and promise to do better "this time". I am so surprised how you all think these 1-man shops are too busy to communicate. Let me assure you that they do not communicate because their operations are a total clusterfuck consisting of:
unpaid vendors
unfinished designs
disgruntled helpers
disgruntled customers
disgruntled vendors
cash shortages (as evidenced by downline project $$ collection)
and an overwhelming attitude of superiority and disdain for all those who dare question their abilities.

In other words, you 'buyers' all have become artists' patrons and have simply paid for the pleasure of the artists' company. If there was something to report, it would be reported. As it is, it is. You know it deep down just as you are confident that Nigerian Prince Aboobie will reward you 10-fold if you just send him another 5 grand.

And I can not tell you how much I wish I was wrong, but RD said it best, there are 20 people getting credit on TOM and JPop is suffering the delusion that he did it all.

#1672 4 years ago

BTW, if you want to see a guy who CAN do it all, check this out:

http://www.junkyardcats.net/

Why can't a boutique just grab this completed design and produce it?

#1673 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

BTW, if you want to see a guy who CAN do it all, check this out:
http://www.junkyardcats.net/
Why can't a boutique just grab this completed design and produce it?
» YouTube video

Not saying the guy doesn't have talent, but the art screams "Deviantart" to me. I like that it's an ode to the System 11 platform though.

#1674 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I don't think Jpop is capable of letting someone help him to be honest. Everyone I know who's tried has bailed because he's impossible

Quoted from sd_tom:

I know of one person that offered to work on some stuff for him years ago and they had some tentative agreement and after some very loose terms and visiting the workshop a few times.. couldn't ever get a sense of organization, no formal terms locked down ($ for work), felt he couldn't risk his livelihood on such loosey-goosey-ness so went back to doing his day job.

FINALLY someone says it. I won't say what my involvement was, or what I saw or heard from others, but every story seems to be the same.

This thread is almost as long as LIONMAN which is gibberish. This thread is actually filled with opinions, concerns, and complaints and nearly as long. I can't wait to see what's revealed next wednesday
giphy[3].gif

#1676 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

FINALLY someone says it. I won't say what my involvement was, or what I saw or heard from others, but every story seems to be the same.

Since there's obviously enough people with the same story that I'm not outing anyone by saying this, I can tell you I know of 3 people who've personally told me amazingly similar stories about how they tried to work with him and how impossible it was. He's pathologically incapable of accepting someone else's input or finishing anything as far as I can tell. I hope the NDA people have seen some amazing shit, because so far all I've seen is a bunch of concept art that was done by other people. You guys do realize that Jpop isn't actually drawing any of that stuff right? If you want some rad pinball art I can tell you right now you don't each have to pony up $27k to get it.

#1677 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

If you want some rad pinball art I can tell you right now you don't each have to pony up $27k to get it.

Whoever is doing the artwork its phenomenal, and yeah we have seen some amazing looking shit but it doesn't mean much if we never get to see it in our houses.

I wonder what John has been doing for 3 years if not working on artwork!

You wouldn't think "rad artwork" would be that costly yet it consistently sucks with Stern and everybody else now.

#1678 4 years ago

There seems to be a some sort of conception out there that JPOP does art on his pins.

I've never seen any evidence of this ... All his Williams projects had artists attached to them.

Where does this belief come from?

Is it just because his BW pins had cool artwork so people associate this with JPOP?

Serious question ... I don't know the answer.

rd.

#1679 4 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

There seems to be a some sort of conception out there that JPOP does art on his pins.
I've never seen any evidence of this ... All his Williams projects had artists attached to them.
Where does this belief come from?
Is it just because his BW pins had cool artwork so people associate this with JPOP?
Serious question ... I don't know the answer.
rd.

That was why I asked a page or so back. Was wondering who did/is doing the art for MG..

#1680 4 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Is it just because his BW pins had cool artwork so people associate this with JPOP?

Serious question ... I don't know the answer.

I do believe he draws out the preliminary sketches and design himself. He has gone through in detail the whole process on the blogs and told me himself. To what extent, don't know.

What else do you think he's been doing for 3 years? I know this, MG, from what I've seen, will blow everybody away. So he's the common denominator, CV, TOTAN, TOM and now this one.

Hopefully everybody will get to see it next week.

#1681 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You wouldn't think "rad artwork" would be that costly yet it consistently sucks with Stern and everybody else now.

Right?! Why do you think I'm constantly bitching about this? To be fair it's harder in this age of licensed games. Studios constantly trying to control every bit, you end up with The Hobbit, where JJP have to constantly apologize that they couldn't do what they wanted to. It's why I give so much props to Dutch Pinball, they did a licensed title with a crapload of obstacles, and they navigated those waters better than all the pros.

Quoted from rotordave:

Where does this belief come from?

Is it just because his BW pins had cool artwork so people associate this with JPOP?

I think that's totally the answer, yes. Theatre of Magic and Circus Voltaire are both by Linda Deal. TOTAN is by Pat McMahon. World Cup Soccer was Kevin O'Connor. Jpop did not do the art for those pins. All by established pinball artists, with a bunch of other games to their credit. Look them up!

And as RD pointed out, Jpop doesn't even get solo credit on the games his name is attached to. He was like the junior designer at Williams wasn't he?

Quoted from iceman44:

I do believe he draws out the preliminary sketches and design himself. He has gone through in detail the whole process on the blogs and told me himself. To what extent, don't know.

I'm sure he must sketch something for the layouts of his games, but as far as I know the man cannot draw anything beyond that. I can tell you that all those things he gets up on stage to show everyone are done by other people. When he shows off some cool concept art it's not his art. Empty cabinets at Expo? I'm sure the hinges were simply incredible or something, but the side art that will never see the light of day in a production game (since it's using Mars Attacks and Forbidden Planet assets that I guarantee he has no licenses for) was done by someone else.

Which is fine! I don't expect Steve Ritchie or John Borg to be awesome artists. But somehow Jpop seems to get the credit. Like I said, maybe the NDA people have seen something cool and awesome. The rest of us plebes? We've only seen things other people have done. None of that art is his.

#1682 4 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

That was why I asked a page or so back. Was wondering who did/is doing the art for MG..

I don't know who's doing what, but at least some of it was done by Matt Andrews.

http://mandraws.com

https://www.behance.net/gallery/14318605/Concept-Art

https://dribbble.com/mandraws/tags/pinball

d4d34b6e6b43c2ed905213ed67af3487.jpgtumblr_mqoibteKzE1qhdie1o2_1280.jpg

#1683 4 years ago

Well, there is definitely a strong "jpop style" between all his games, including the new ones. That is why I signed on in the first place. I never thought he was the artist, but just like a movie director, everyone is working to fulfill his vision.

I have big issues with some of the ways he's been conducting business, but I know everything in his shop is amazing and wouldn't have been created anywhere else.

The art I've seen is all great. The games from what I've seen will have the same style and flow that we expect from him. They'll have innovative toys, light shows and ball tricks. They'll set a new standard, for certain.

THAT is what we've been sold. And if delivered, will be great value for our money. But all the other bullshit with no accountability has got to stop already. John, ok, you've announced your revealing the games, and hopefully the reveals will go over well and everyone will love the work. Would have it been so hard to give us an updated timeline? Why the pulling of teeth over this stuff? Tell me, the guy who is buying the game and sent you the money, when can I expect it? Just deal with these questions please.

#1684 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Right?! Why do you think I'm constantly bitching about this?

Really? I'd never noticed that.

Quoted from Aurich:

Which is fine! I don't expect Steve Ritchie or John Borg to be awesome artists. But somehow Jpop seems to get the credit. Like I said, maybe the NDA people have seen something cool and awesome. The rest of us plebes? We've only seen things other people have done. None of that art is his.

Good that I wasn't the only one thinking this then.

rd.

#1685 4 years ago

The art is indeed JPOP design and it's based on his sketches. He directs the artists and creates the composition of it all. That said, EVERYTHING rides on his MG reveal. It better not be a box with artwork on it...or even a playfield with art. This bitch needs to be playable or I doubt he'll get any more money from anyone.

#1686 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

BTW, if you want to see a guy who CAN do it all, check this out:
http://www.junkyardcats.net/
Why can't a boutique just grab this completed design and produce it?
» YouTube video

Brendan is awesome! He actually made our FAST Pinball logo for us. I think it would be a lot of fun to bring this game to life.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#1687 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

In other words, you 'buyers' all have become artists' patrons ...

This is not a bad comparison and I do not feel insulted (I am not a JPOP patron but I got other artists to "sponsor" so I see the point)

Quoted from SadSack:

... and have simply paid for the pleasure of the artists' company.

...except that Patrons expect a little bit more than that. Painters' patrons are given, in addition to the company, some paintings from time to time...

#1688 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

Why can't a boutique just grab this completed design and produce it?

I don't think you understand what drives someone to be crazy enough to do a boutique pin. A huge part of it is around the overall creation of something, bringing your vision to life, not just 'building' a machine. Maybe there is someone who would want to do, but most of the folk I have talked to who are building machines I don't think would have interest in taking someones creation and building it. It is certainly possible he might want to try to turn his machine into physical machine, as we have seen with WOOLY.

#1689 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

Why can't a boutique just grab this completed design and produce it?

There's a ton of great digital designs, doesn't mean someone wants to produce them. Also junkyard cats was produced on future pinball which doesn't translate so well because of the way it's programmed. If you made a table on visual pinball (like WOOLY did), you can literally run a real pinball machine with the same code through PROC.

#1690 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

I don't think you understand what drives someone to be crazy enough to do a boutique pin. A huge part of it is around the overall creation of something, bringing your vision to life, not just 'building' a machine. Maybe there is someone who would want to do, but most of the folk I have talked to who are building machines I don't think would have interest in taking someones creation and building it. It is certainly possible he might want to try to turn his machine into physical machine, as we have seen with WOOLY.

I would be totally into producing someone else's design. If it was a great design, there was demand for it and the designer could hand off completed designs to be produced, we would be all over it.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#1691 4 years ago

Could you take on a project like WOOLY without requiring massive up front payments?
This is one project that I think would sell big numbers if we could literally call in an order, charge the credit card, and watch the tracking number vs the current: send in the cash and hope to God that this pin doesn't follow the same fate that many of the other boutique companies are putting people through.

#1692 4 years ago

IF Jpop produces a kick ass pin with gorgeous artwork like Totan and CV or even better, does he get any credit?

#1693 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

IF Jpop produces a kick ass pin with gorgeous artwork like Totan and CV or even better, does he get any credit?

If it plays as good as it looks, I believe so.

#1694 4 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Could you take on a project like WOOLY without requiring massive up front payments?
This is one project that I think would sell big numbers if we could literally call in an order, charge the credit card, and watch the tracking number vs the current: send in the cash and hope to God that this pin doesn't follow the same fate that many of the other boutique companies are putting people through.

The model we are pursuing is similar to indie record labels. When the band and the label are releasing a record almost like a joint venture. Some games will be more expensive to produce than other. Some games will be more in demand than others. Some games will require more label involvement to be developed, while others come in ready to be mass produced and distributed.

At a point the "machine" takes over and much of the process can be systematized and hopefully certain advantages of economies of scale can be taken across multiple titles. Platforms for documentation, code update distribution, even pooled customer support are a part of a professional release. These are all critical to a successful game launch.

I feel that pinball needs a model that lets designers be designers and not suddenly also have to be engineers, marketing, biz dev, production line manager, logistics, support, etc.

Please PM if you want to I discuss any of this. I did say I would stay off this thread.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Post edited by fastpinball: speling erors

#1695 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

I feel that pinball needs a model that lets designers be designers and not suddenly also have to be engineers, marketing, biz dev, production line manager, logistics, support, etc.

Please PM if you want to I discuss any of this. I did say I would stay off this thread.

Stay on the thread, this is the perfect place to discuss the point you made above which has become abundantly clear and if you guys can make that happen then the bottom line is we get MORE pinball, faster and infinitely more efficient. A GOOD thing!

#1696 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

It's like an entmoot in there

omg, lol.....this is the best post on this thread so far.

#1697 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

FAST Pinball is developing a new pinball hardware platform for developing new games, as well as enhancing existing games. We are also working with pinball designers to provide design, build and engineering support to get games to market. Let designers be designers.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Aaron, if a designer gives you a working prototype, how many games are you suggesting that you can build, produce and get out the door in a month?

#1698 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

Since we are now 7 days away from the big reveal here's my prediction:
15% chance - Game revealed to everyone, pinball news picks up the story, the game looks fantastic and everyone is excited.
40% chance - Game revealed to owners only. Reminders of NDA still in effect and general disappointment because owners can't talk and the community can't see. No ship estimates provided to owners.
30% chance - December 17th comes and goes with no reveal. Owners blow up the forums and get no response for days. If response does occur, questions are not answered.
15% chance - Game revealed to either owners or everyone, but nothing really shown. Game not turned on, pics taken from 30' and blurry or strategically cropped, etc...

70% chance the *Rug* Reveal is just that... a reveal of something only tangentially related to the game itself like the empty cabinets at Expo. JPop appears to still be juggling 3 games at once as indicated with his latest AIW payment letter. I hope he comes through, but it's going to be a long haul for you guys either way.

#1699 4 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

70% chance the *Rug* Reveal is just that... a reveal of something only tangentially related to the game itself like the empty cabinets at Expo. JPop appears to still be juggling 3 games at once as indicated with his latest AIW payment letter. I hope he comes through, but it's going to be a long haul for you guys either way.

He sent out a payment letter for AIW? I missed that... I thought there would be no payments on that one due till MG actually shipped? I don't remember where I heard that...

#1700 4 years ago

The crazy thing about the Robbie the Robot and the Mars Attacks guy, is they were both added in later revisions of the art.

So if there is a problem and one or both of them have to be removed or changed to conform, all that time was wasted putting them in, and now more time wasted changing/removing them.

The backglass isn't an oil painting, so obviously with digital tools this can all be done, but it makes the case about how the stuck in the weeds we are when deadlines don't exist.

Oh, and I guess no one noticed the Godzilla monster? (look at upper right side by the coaster)

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