Alice in Wonderland
Gottlieb, 1948
Houdini
American Pinball, 2017
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012Quoted from iceman44:Let's see what Pat does when "budget" isn't the issue.
Budget is always an issue. Remember, the days pat was at stern the budgets were pretty healthy. And hobbit looks cost reduced compared to the original woz. Hell, the current woz is cost reduced compared to the original woz. If you aren't in business to make money you won't be in business long.
Quoted from chessiv:Budget is always an issue. Remember, the days pat was at stern the budgets were pretty healthy. And hobbit looks cost reduced compared to the original woz. Hell, the current woz is cost reduced compared to the original woz. If you aren't in business to make money you won't be in business long.
What? Have you seen the mechs in Hobbit? I doubt the BOM is cheaper than WOZ. If so, barely. The current WOZ is cost reduced? Huh? Are you talking decaled cabs vs cleared? If so...per Jack the decals cost more. Believe it or not. Wherever you go...there you are!
Quoted from chessiv:Budget is always an issue. Remember, the days pat was at stern the budgets were pretty healthy. And hobbit looks cost reduced compared to the original woz. Hell, the current woz is cost reduced compared to the original woz. If you aren't in business to make money you won't be in business long.
It's all relative isn't it? Listen to Pat's own interviews and words regarding Stern versus Bally. He was there I think in the heyday of Bally and cost cutting days of Stern.
Like I said, we'll see soon enough won't we? That's what this is all about after all with Pat.
Quoted from iceman44:It's all relative isn't it? Listen to Pat's own interviews and words regarding Stern versus Bally. He was there I think in the heyday of Bally and cost cutting days of Stern.
Like I said, we'll see soon enough won't we? That's what this is all about after all with Pat.
No, actually you said lets see what he does when budget isn't an issue. But I agree with the wait and see attitude.
Quoted from Cornelius:Did Jack's OPINION take any money out of your wallet?
Are you for real?
Seriously, I have to bite my tongue so hard it bleeds when I read stuff like this.
Quoted from Cornelius:But, for the millionth time, it's merely his opinion!
For the millionth time: NO SHIT SHERLOCK!
Quoted from Cornelius:I wouldn't say you're doing a great job of biting your tongue. Or not mashing your keyboard.
Quoted from Cornelius:Forgot to add an emoticon
We've got your point, 30 posts about the same thing. We get it, Jack is a good dude although he supports John and bans people for pasting his own letter, he's a good dude.
Quoted from rai:We've got your point, 30 posts about the same thing. We get it, Jack is a good dude although he supports John and bans people for pasting his own letter, he's a good dude.
Well since I didn't say he was a "good dude" once and you're repeating yourself hysterically, I don't think you've got it quite yet.
Quoted from TaTa:JJP is doing something that Pat himself said he never had before, total creative freedom.
Seriously? You're telling me he had any restrictions when he made Safecracker? The game was an original theme, complete new form factor (size), unlimited budget, etc, etc and it sucks. The only selling point is it is a unique collector's item and it is "different". Roadshow was original theme, wide body, and seemingly unlimited budget and it sucks big-time too. I love Lawlor's early work, but I am not holding my breath for JJP #3 based on the "what have you done for me lately" theory. Pat has not put out a great game since TZ - 22 years and counting.
Quoted from Cornelius:I wouldn't say you're doing a great job of biting your tongue. Or not mashing your keyboard.
Oh, but believe me, I am!
Quoted from John_I:Seriously? You're telling me he had any restrictions when he made Safecracker? The game was an original theme, complete new form factor (size), unlimited budget, etc, etc and it sucks. The only selling point is it is a unique collector's item and it is "different". roadshow was original theme, wide body, and seemingly unlimited budget and it sucks big-time too. I love Lawlor's early work, but I am not holding my breath for JJP #3 based on the "what have you done for me lately" theory. Pat has not put out a great game since TZ - 22 years and counting.
Safecracker and RS are AWESOME! Have you played them? If he builds like that (with a better theme) I'd be happy. We know the rules will be great at least with Ted and Keith.
Quoted from Pimp77:Safecracker and RS are AWESOME! Have you played them?
I've owned the both in the past. Safecracker is unique but gets old fast. Roadshow is a little better than Popeye, so basically the sixth best Superpin behind IJ,TZ, STTNG, DM and JD.
Funhouse: now that was a great game.
Edit: sorry done with OT posting in this thread.
Quoted from John_I:Pat has not put out a great game since TZ - 22 years and counting.
No great games in last 22 years?! How about RBION? Severely underrated title.
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:ok Ill play "be cool or be cast out"
That could be JJP's forum slogan
Quoted from dkazz1:No great games in last 22 years?! How about RBION? Severely underrated title.
Maybe that's his best STERN title, and certainly could be called a "good" game, but "great"? No way.
It's an old conversation, but I think PL did his best work at B/W and his Stern stuff was just weak... some bright spots in a few games, but as a whole, disappointing.
Even his B/W games that perhaps weren't "great" certainly had some very unique ideas: Banzai Run, Safecracker, Earthshaker, etc.
In comparison, the Stern stuff looked like he was mostly "going through the motions" on mostly licensed gigs.
Quoted from lowepg:In comparison, the Stern stuff looked like he was mostly "going through the motions" on mostly licensed gigs.
But what does that say when the games are mostly projects PLD did, that they just handed over to Stern to manufacture? They were games built by Pat in his studio under his label.
Quoted from flynnibus:But what does that say when the games are mostly projects PLD did, that they just handed over to Stern to manufacture? They were games built by Pat in his studio under his label.
I'm not taking the oft-used excuse that it was "all Stern" or "Stern cramped his creative style" or "stern was too cheap" - I'm simply saying his best work was done at B/W - by a LONG margin.
Quoted from lowepg:Maybe that's his best STERN title, and certainly could be called a "good" game, but "great"? No way.
It's an old conversation, but I think PL did his best work at B/W and his Stern stuff was just weak... some bright spots in a few games, but as a whole, disappointing.
Even his B/W games that perhaps weren't "great" certainly had some very unique ideas: Banzai Run, Safecracker, Earthshaker, etc.
In comparison, the Stern stuff looked like he was mostly "going through the motions" on mostly licensed gigs.
RBION and FGY are his only good Stern games IMO...I would venture to say they're even great. RCT, Monopoly, NASCAR, and CSI on the other hand are not great, but at least they ALL have cool ideas and aren't cookie cutter layouts.
Edit: I'm not sure what you mean by "going through the motions". Those games have unique features. SR is more "going through the motions" with the same recycled layouts...albeit awesome ones.
Quoted from John_I:Seriously? You're telling me he had any restrictions when he made Safecracker? The game was an original theme, complete new form factor (size), unlimited budget, etc, etc and it sucks. The only selling point is it is a unique collector's item and it is "different". roadshow was original theme, wide body, and seemingly unlimited budget and it sucks big-time too. I love Lawlor's early work, but I am not holding my breath for JJP #3 based on the "what have you done for me lately" theory. Pat has not put out a great game since TZ - 22 years and counting.
NGG is pretty damn fun to play. 
Quoted from Pimp77:RBION and FGY are his only good Stern games IMO...I would venture to say they're even great. RCT, Monopoly, Nascar, and CSI on the other hand are not great, but at least they ALL have cool ideas and aren't cookie cutter layouts.
CSI was finished by Borg with cost cutting measures in place. Some playfield elements were changed and another pop bumper and ramp removed.
-c
Quoted from benheck:Budget and time should ALWAYS be an issue.
Otherwise you end up with Magic Girl.
Or in JJP's case you end up with a whole lot less profit or possible losses. That monthly fixed overhead doesn't stop churning out over and over. They need to kick it in gear much sooner than later and apparently Pat's game will be "ready to go when announced" (whatever that means).
Obviously, there is or should always be a "budget". Pat has a whole lot more to work with $$ wise on JJP versus his time at Stern. That's the point.
JJP should be able to sell enough pins at their price to justify what's in Pat's game. I'm sure they have "budgeted" it out 
Whether they actually do, remains to be seen. I'll be a buyer if it's the old Pat.
It'd probably be easier to change the thread title by now than re-rail this thread.
No jpop news to speak of, but this has become the popular chat room so chat will continue. Personally I love banzai run and consider it great and a classic, if a bit on the gimmicky side.
Meanwhile back at the JPOP Ponzi scheme headquarters 
http://www.pinballinventor.org/feed.html
image.jpg
Quoted from Concretehardt:Meanwhile back at the JPOP Ponzi scheme headquarters
http://www.pinballinventor.org/feed.html
image.jpg
These were posted back earlier, on the days that the news was actually posted to the feed. 
Good to see nothing new's been posted there..
Quoted from Concretehardt:Meanwhile back at the JPOP Ponzi scheme headquarters
http://www.pinballinventor.org/feed.html
image.jpg
Funny, when you "Follow the white rabbit" to this page
http://www.pinballinventor.org/alicepinball/chapter2/pagemenu.html
Every link is clickable to show his doodles, but not the Rules link. Guess its all about the doodles 
"Hey check it out, I made a swirling background behind this logo! My skills at typing 0 and 360 into After Effects are second to none, thanks to what I learned at Bally/Williams. Please send me one million dollars (or a painting of equal value)"
Quoted from Taxman:Funny, when you "Follow the white rabbit" to this page
http://www.pinballinventor.org/alicepinball/chapter2/pagemenu.html
Every link is clickable to show his doodles, but not the Rules link. Guess its all about the doodles
Notice the link: "Chapter 2"
... Chapter II ... Chapter 11 ... aaahh!
Quoted from spfxted:I think CSI is great....
I do too great toys and with LEDs the look is incredible. The one I got from Greg in Arizona is incredible and I have yet to tire of playing it. He dud a great job of getting it custom modded and powder coated.
Quoted from Concretehardt:Meanwhile back at the JPOP Ponzi scheme headquarters
http://www.pinballinventor.org/feed.html
image.jpg
Not a Ponzi scheme. That implies someone other than John benefitted. I think every but John lost.
Quoted from generica:No jpop news to speak of, but this has become the popular chat room so chat will continue.
I've got a "collector quality" Medieval Madness for sale. Some have said it "looks like a HEP".
Maybe that'll get the chat going.... 
Quoted from lowepg:Agreed.... fewer budget constraints *AND* not being hamstrung by constantly having to cow-tow to a licensor.
Seems like he's literally got:
a blank canvas
a kickass new platform to stretch
a blank check (well, within reason).
pretty damn exciting!
Dude... seriously... enough with all the JJP posts... someone told me this was a jpop thread!
Quoted from dgarrett:Deleted post
Then why come here? You know how it works. The Jpop discussion is over in the MMr repair thread.
Quoted from dgarrett:Dude... seriously... enough with all the JJP posts... someone told me this was a jpop thread!
Lol... Yup... You're right.
However talking about the return of Pat Lawlor is a helluva lot more inspiring then the greek tragedy of Jpop.
And, since they were both characters from pinballs recent past, perhaps it IS relevant to contrast the two different paths they took.... Ok.... Yeah- that's a stretch 
Quoted from John_I:roadshow is a little better than Popeye,
The most stupid statement i have heard all month.
Quoted from pinballrockstar:Yeah, Popeye is way cooler!
Then you are going to LOVE JPop's updated version of MG:
Zap Zap Zap... That is EPIC!
Quoted from s1500:I like the fact you went through the extra effort to add the GREAT HARM lights. You even matched the font.
No way a regular pinhead could of pulled this off... woodworker must of graduated from JPOP's pinball school.
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