I know how you feel. You had no reason to not believe him.

When we were talking to John it was around the possibility of getting our hardware into AIW. At one point I had to ask him, "Are you going to be able to get MG out? Do you need help? Because you have got to get something out..." His reply worried me, "I need to get something out... or I need to get out. Like to Mexico."

Aaron
FAST Pinball

To paraphrase, 'Because the Mexicos is a place where you are the most out, when you are being the wrong.' Why does every JP quote sound like it came from the pink Teen Titan? There are not enough dots to draw a line between rational and those thoughts. Its a wonder anything happened at all.

THIS! Jack may have read "some" of this thread, but he has no idea how John worked. John hired multiple people (artists, programmers) to do the SAME job, who does that? And when volunteers offer to work for free (believe me, John wanted to reward people however he could), but if they didn't put in 110% while working a full-time job, he simply ignored them and found the next sucker to work for him. And even when his volunteers DID get work, John gave almost no direction (figure it out). This goes beyond bad management, I wouldn't even want to work with John as a co-worker in the same engineering department. I'm glad that Jack at least admits John is done with pinball, which translates with John is out of a career except doing remedial work (which at his age is pretty limited).

That's a bit harsh. Those people who lost $1000s off dollars are some hard working down to earth people that produce something worthwhile to be able to afford a pinball. Bill had it hard and that was because John set him up to fail and misled him into throwing stupid money at John.

Jpoop gets zero sympathy from me. I will only think he has suffered enough when he is in a small apartment and working two jobs to pay his rent. I hope JJP gets better educated on all that has transpired and what John has really done.

I thought Jack had met with John about those games before Bill ever got involved.

Since Jack is currently also getting beat up on Pinside for not shipping Hobbit, it serves him to contribute to the narrative that Pinside destroys pinball dreams.

Not every company gets skewered on Pinside, only the ones that take money in advance and are slow to deliver, or don't deliver at all.

Earlier in Jack's post he comments about the privilege of us pre-buyers who put money into this, but then attacks us as do nothings. Jpop customers are JJP customers, the kinds of people that drop tens of thousands on new pinball. So I don't get the sense of saying that.

Jack's assessment of the JPOP situation is wrong on many levels. I'm not going to waste my time and pick apart his post here (it would take too long) Sorry Jack I think your a decent guy but you visited his shop the rest of us have been on a multi year ride from hell filled with lies & broken promises.

Beat me to it. Jack's whole "F Pinside" attitude lately has been a turn-off...but now his response to the Jpop fraud is victim blaming!?!? Going along with the narrative that it's the community's fault for John's failure and theft!? People should just shrug it off and move on after losing thousands!?

Glad I don't have money on a Hobbit.

Did anyone else get the feeling that Jack was trying to present John as someone who just needed the right help? Like, say, from him? Maybe Jack is considering picking up John as a designer now that he is desperate and perhaps willing to work for someone else?

Jack would know that there is enough of the JPOP fan base out there that really knows very little about Zidware. He could say, "John Popadiuk who designed the well known games you love is now designing a new JJP title!"

And I am sure there would be a lot of people who would still buy the game. I wouldn't expect Jack to get tangled all up in MG or RAZA, but AIW is another story...

Aaron
FAST Pinball

lost ALOT of respect for Jack with that post. Also convinced me I will NEVER buy a JJP game till it is ready for pickup.

It is so off base it is scary.

Holy crap, his whole post is so far off base it isn't even funny, but the above really takes the cake.

Honestly, if I had pre-order money in on a JJP game like TH, reading the above would scare the shit out of me, as it comes across as being far too accepting of the statistic that most startups fail in the first years. Then he goes on to say that owners should have rallied as a group to figure out what he has? WTF does that mean? Were owners supposed to pay *more* money to JPop? Help him physically build the pins?

And man, blaming the victims? Seriously, those who paid money to John "got what they paid for?!" Are you fucking kidding me?!!?

This sounds like JJ is trying to calm the mob because he might be in a similar situation soon. With the delayed shipping, pending litigation against him and the rumors of other business trouble I can see where he doesn't want people burned by Jpop to go after him.

Again I don't wish business failure on anyone, I hope JJP makes tons of great games and tons of money. I really enjoy WOZ and TH looks like it could be fun.

The biggest difference from an outsider is that JPOP kept taking money long after he knew there was little to no chance of delivering a product. That is plain wrong and borderline criminal IMO. I dont think however that people should target his family or threaten to do him bodily harm. It isn't unreasonable though to try and recoup some of the money that you spent through litigation. If JPOP had been upfront and honest with those who pre-ordered there wouldn't be this level of resentment. I think most reasonable people can accept failure and are willing to chalk up money as lost, but if you continue your deceit and take money from other buyers with zero expectation of delivering a product...you deserve the public flogging

What? Why would that be?

Makes zero sense to me. How would AIW make any more sense for JJP to get involved in than the others?

Jack posts some really stupid shit, but I don't think he is a really stupid businessman. Getting involved with JPop at this stage would be stupid shit....whether it was with MG, RAZA, or AIW...or anything else for that matter.

yeah the poor lying, deceitful criminal gorging on 90,000k a year salary producing nothing is the victim here. jpop the victim of evil pinsiders exposing his shit show for what it was. that is one messed up letter imo.

He has to run some damage control for John. By doing so he's doing damage control for himself.

I swear, the more I sit here thinking about that post from Jack, the more it pisses me off. And I didn't lose a dime on JPop! I can't imagine how it would make my friends feel who have lost thousands of dollars in this deal.

Fucking clueless.

Only in his mind. Because nobody with an ounce of common sense would read that post by Jack and feel like he helped with any kind of damage control. I would hope that 99% of people reading that post would see it for what it is: blaming the victims. Pure crap.

This was my exact thought after reading his crap.

Same here!!! Jack if that's the way you feel about customers who buy games and trust people like you enough to pay for those games years before they are ready to ship then you won't ever see another dime from me!

I think Jack's post was in poor taste. Jack runs a business and needs better PR than this. He's correct with his statement of how the negatives spread quickly. Jack may feel sympathy for John and that's fine. John has ruined himself and his reputation. Maybe Jack can buy John out and pay everyone back. This would allow people to forgive John and give Jack oodles of passes for years to come.

I agree. But if he doesn't try to smooth the angry mob he probably fears they'll attack him next. I mean more than normal.

Ship Hobbit and there's nothing to attack.

The way I see it, there are only 2 possibilities based on Jack's post:

1) he is worried he is going under too, so he is trying to soften people up by reminding them how many businesses go under in the first "formative years", or:

2) he is completely clueless about the message that he is sending with his post.

I prefer to think that it is number 2.

Either way, that is the worst thing that I have ever seen Jack post.

I think jack can sympathize with john, on how hard building pinball is, and what it's like to have hundreds of bosses hounding him. In addition, I'm sure the failure strikes a nerve.

I have no skin in this game, but have been following closely. I sympathize with all those who lost money. At the same time, I have some concern over the johns mental health and how his family is dealing with this.

The blame falls squarly on the captain of this ship. Unfortunately, a lot of people went down with him.

In other news...
I just placed my NGG on location next to my WCS.
Will a new Pat Lawlor or Jpop game be made someday?
Which game do you think will earn best side by side?

...wow, I thought 'Pinballers' had a lot of drama.

i'm confident there are mental health professionals that could answer your question very quickly, but all we have here are people in another field.

When iceman44 calls you out for a dumb post, you know you dun goofed.

I believe the saying is, "you dun goofed."

Great question.

Can you imagine a world where they are not paying vendors or shipping a game?

Failing companys in this small hobby is bad for all of us, hobbyists, collectors, flippers, vendors, Stern...everyone.

Incredibly bad form for Jersey Jack Pinball JJP to come into the JPOP John Popadiuk mess.

Whatever happened to Hobbit, by the way???

There's always option 3, which is maybe Jack wants to complete one of John's games as a JJP title.

A business relationship that would last several microseconds at best.

You saying that the end could be near for Jersey Jack Pinball JJP?

I'll get the corn popping if/when that happens...

HAHAHA

Ouch.

Consequences will never be the same.

It's been said a few times in the rumor mill AIW is the best and most complete of the three games. I have 0 clue, but that was the buzz around the show about AIW being significantly better than Magic Girl. Maybe thats why, but at this point the only safe bet is to take the design for some nominal fee and make it all your own.

Uhhhh...after reading Jack's comment..... I'm not sure I'd be comfortable having him hold any of my cash. He's basically saying that you are all a bunch of over-privileged dandies, and screw you if I fail. The fucking balls on that guy, after what Pinside did for him and JJP.

- Definitely appears he has empathy and that's not good.
- His entire post is bad news imo asides the token "human aspect" about Johns family and whatnot.
- I can't imagine people will advance him more $$ if his opinion of the value of their dollars becomes common knowledge.
- It's actually quite remarkable he actually posted that and it's still visible.

AIW is nowhere near where MG is. And not in a good way.

Sometimes Jack does not help himself for sure. It is true most start ups fail so highlighting that was kind of odd. The Hobbit is so late now, it's really surprising. Don't think anyone predicted it this late.

The risks of pre-ordering are way way too high now.

So, is anyone making a pin based on a dithering, narcissistic moron backed by a smarmy rat like shyster sidekick? Would totally be cool if the callouts could spew poisonous lies whilst the machine rifles your bank accounts when playing. I mean who doesn't love having hopes and dreams crushed into tiny atoms? I'd certainly consider another dry bumming preorder if a mannequins foot came flying out from under the machine to swiftly kick me in the balls every time I pressed a flipper button.

Enough of these fanciful dreams, I'm off to chew my hands and feet to bloody stumps because I've been thinking that working hard for my money is just not hard enough.

It's ok, he'll release a standard hobbit, an LE hobbit, a super duper LE, and a gold plated LE to make up for all the extra R&D spent.

Oh and I'm sure Pat Lawlor would like to reveal his title already, it's been a year and a half now
http://www.pinballnews.com/news/jjplawlor.html

The crazy thing about that rant is he wants everyone to feel sorry for the only guy in the whole deal who made money. Everyone else involved is out money. From those who placed orders on machines to vendors that were stiffed to contractors that weren't fully paid. Heck don't forget the hours and hours of time people put into trying to salvage the project at the end.

But apparently those are the bad guys. The good guy is the one who was making a substantial salary over the years who didn't produce anything of value. Who misled paying customers and was such a coward that he refused to call people back and give them accurate information on the status of the project and their money. The mental gymnastics needed to turn JPop into the victim is mind-boggling.

jack won't hire jpop. Not worth the problems that come with him

But why defend him? That's the question.

that is the CONCERN for me.

What an unusual letter from Jack?

I mean,if someone offered to build me a supernice table and then takes my $200 and says,aaaah i failed man...sorry...

Then it pisses you off right? it is not for the love and passion for diningroom tables that i forgive this dude?f@ck him,my money back dude?

Who wants to lose $16000 ?

How come Jack thinks the money to spend came easy? maybe we all been .... (moderated) .... for it? he don't know?

And maybe Jack,maybe ... we are all poor now... and the laugh of the town?

I think with WOZ you build the best game in history,period..(i owned a lot,see profile)...please hire someone to speak for you,because the words don't come out right..

haha-you-are-poor-Queen-Elizabeth-Prince-Charles.jpg

my impression is he feels bad for all the people involved. He can't bail him out. Why does he have to hate the guy? He wasn't involved in this from a Buisness or customer status. He gains nothing by bashing him. That's just my 2 cents