(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#1551 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

John has NDAs with everyone. I think that is what makes reading this thread difficult. There are many people who would love to weigh in constructively one way or another, but cannot.
I am sure in a couple years when everyone's NDAs have expired there will be a great sharing. But until then there really isn't anything that can be shared that divulges anything that is not already publicly known.
FWIW, I have a lot of respect for John as a designer. I have regular communication with him and have enjoyed his input and advice. John has gone dark on me from time to time when he, I assume, was focused on his work. I have been to his workshop. I have seen a lot of exciting pinball in the works.
The best advice we have received from veteran pinball folks like John is that "to build great pinball you need a great team." This is advice that we at FAST have taken very seriously.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Post edited by fastpinball: typo

Aaron what does Fastpinball do?

#1552 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Aaron what does Fastpinball do?
» YouTube video

Pree-sent! I love that skit!

FAST Pinball is developing a new pinball hardware platform for developing new games, as well as enhancing existing games. We are also working with pinball designers to provide design, build and engineering support to get games to market. Let designers be designers.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#1553 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Hehe, I'm pretty sure vendors don't have an NDA with John.

Vendors have NDA's with John.

#1554 4 years ago

look I'm pretty sure when someone has your money, and they have past the point of delivering product in a "reasonable" time frame, all NDA's go out the window! NDA's cant possibly hold up in a court of law in this situation. This is Canada anyway but the US must have to adhere to reason as well.

#1555 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

This is where I think most people are in agreement, including myself.
As for the comments made by GL I'd like to know the FACTS of what he meant so we aren't speculating about it. And then I will call John myself and get his side of the story.
Let's get to the bottom of it.

I love ya Ice. Your emotional roller coaster on these preorders have, at the very least, been entertaining. Mr. Esquire demanding facts? For shame.

#1556 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

look I'm pretty sure when someone has your money, and they have past the point of delivering product in a "reasonable" time frame, all NDA's go out the window! NDA's cant possibly hold up in a court of law in this situation. This is Canada anyway but the US must have to adhere to reason as well.

NDAs between parties have no bearing on the NDAs between other parties. Topics covered by the NDA are essentially information not broadly known which you are only privy to because it was shared between the parties in the agreement.

While they may not be bulletproof in a courtroom in certain circumstances, it is considered poor business practice to disregard such agreements between companies who willinging entered into them.

In a courtroom setting the intent of the agreement is what is tested. In most cases between companies the intent is to allow the parties to speak more freely about their business and potential opportunities that may exist between them. All while protecting the parties from having one party use this information to gain advantage over the other party and use the information in ways not outlined in the agreement.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#1557 4 years ago

I think there's a lot of "professional courtesy" extended to jpop in this situation. The NDAs, Patents, etc... all don't mean shit without him lawyering up and going after people in court, not likely to happen.

The same is true in reverse, you have customers with contracts with Q4 2013 delivery stated for RAZA, you have apparent vendors owed money, but unless they lawyer up and take it to court, not much happens.

Basically all of us are just holding on by the nails and hoping for a positive outcome.

#1558 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I think there's a lot of "professional courtesy" extended to jpop in this situation. The NDAs, Patents, etc... all don't mean shit without him lawyering up and going after people in court, not likely to happen.
The same is true in reverse, you have customers with contracts with Q4 2013 delivery stated for RAZA, you have apparent vendors owed money, but unless they lawyer up and take it to court, not much happens.
Basically all of us are just holding on by the nails and hoping for a positive outcome.

I think you are mashing together a few different things here. If you had a contact for delivery of a game and the contract was to be considered null and void if any or all of the terms of the agreement were violated, then you can choose the act as you feel you are entitled to. But because one contract was broken doesn't mean they are all null and void.

Personally, my NDAs are still intact for a period of time. If I decide that they are no longer enforceable then I will act accordingly. But just wagering that the other party "ain't gonna do nuthin' 'bout it" is not a responsible move for any business to make unless they are prepared to be challenged on it.

If I find that the NDAs I have with entered into with another party are restricting opportunities for my business then I would seek resolution with them. Otherwise, I would respect the terms of the agreement I willingly entered into.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

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#1559 4 years ago

I'd just like my game.

13
#1560 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'd just like my game.

At the end of the day, that's what everyone wants to see ... You dudes get your pins.

rd.

#1561 4 years ago

Since we are now 7 days away from the big reveal here's my prediction:

15% chance - Game revealed to everyone, pinball news picks up the story, the game looks fantastic and everyone is excited.
40% chance - Game revealed to owners only. Reminders of NDA still in effect and general disappointment because owners can't talk and the community can't see. No ship estimates provided to owners.
30% chance - December 17th comes and goes with no reveal. Owners blow up the forums and get no response for days. If response does occur, questions are not answered.
15% chance - Game revealed to either owners or everyone, but nothing really shown. Game not turned on, pics taken from 30' and blurry or strategically cropped, etc...

What do you guys think will happen on December 17th?

#1562 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

Since we are now 7 days away from the big reveal here's my predictions:
15% chance - Game revealed to everyone, pinball news picks up the story, the game looks fantastic and everyone is excited.
40% chance - Game revealed to owners only. Reminders of NDA still in effect and general disappointment because owners can't talk and the community can't see. No ship estimates provided to owners.
30% chance - December 17th comes and goes with no reveal. Owners blow up the forums and get no response for days. If response does occur, questions are not answered.
15% chance - Game revealed to either owners or everyone, but nothing really shown. Game not turned on, pics taken from 30' and blurry or strategically cropped, etc...
What do you guys think will happen on December 17th?

95% chance the company goes belly up, is forced to sell the rights to this and other games out of financial necessity, and PPS fulfills all initial orders as part of their first run of 1000 LE MG's a few years from now

#1563 4 years ago

Math problems hurt my head

#1564 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

40% chance - Game revealed to owners only. Reminders of NDA still in effect and general disappointment because owners can't talk and the community can't see. No ship estimates provided to owners.

I would say this is 99%. Won't be much of a "Lebowski" effect with only a few eye balls on it and no video/pics shared with everyone else.

I didn't even know there was a date. So, RAZA owners are in the dark as well.

So basically, whenever this happens, expect the same sort of comments we hear when people visit the shop...

"WOW!!! IT WAS AMAZING! I can't show you or tell you more about it, or when we'll actually get it. But WOW!"

Ok, great.

#1565 4 years ago

I'm with frolic. I keep hearing about the promised reveal, but raza people haven't been told a date. I hope it will be shared with us too.

#1566 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

40% chance - Game revealed to owners only. Reminders of NDA still in effect and general disappointment because owners can't talk and the community can't see.

Wait. What were the specifics in terms of what JPop said that the "reveal" would entail? Where is it going to take place? I thought this was going to be some type of public reveal at a show or something?

#1567 4 years ago

first i've heard of a date as well.. where did that even come from? Is that confirmed? If so, it's exciting to see a real date out there. If he said "end of year" then I would vote no reveal before end of year.

#1568 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Wait. What were the specifics in terms of what JPop said that the "reveal" would entail? Where is it going to take place? I thought this was going to be some type of public reveal at a show or something?

No details provided other than Dec 17th and that it would be a Lebowski style "rug" reveal.

I don't know what that means. I don't think John has seen TBL movie, so I doubt he understands that the rug is a plot point in the movie and I hope he doesn't actually put MG on a rug. That would be a facepalm moment for sure.

#1569 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

No details provided other than Dec 17th and that it would be a Lebowski style "rug" reveal.
I don't know what that means. I don't think John has seen TBL movie, so I doubt he understands that the rug is a plot point in the movie and I hope he doesn't actually put MG on a rug. That would be a facepalm moment for sure.

I always assumed a TBL "rug" style reveal would be similar to what DP did at Expo, given how impressed JPop was with that presentation/reveal.

A reveal consisting of nothing more than pictures would be an epic disappointment.

#1570 4 years ago

From reports, there's been a playable MG in his shop for a while. What I was expecting though was a public reveal, to create that "lebowski buzz", not just another test drive for owners under NDA.

#1571 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

From reports, there's been a playable MG in his shop for a while. What I was expecting though was a public reveal, to create that "lebowski buzz", not just another test drive for owners under NDA.

If there isn't a "public reveal" then he's a bigger business/marketing idiot than I could even imagine.

In my discussions with him a few months ago, when the "reveal" comes be ready to pony up the $$$ if you like what you see. I we can't "see it", we won't pony up, and I'm sure that includes the general public.

#1572 4 years ago

As for the idea of the NDA being something of any value at this point is beyond ABSURD!

The NDA, for customers AND vendors, is designed for John to protect intellectual property from being stolen and falling into enemy hands, PERIOD. It's a deterrent and nothing else, it has zero teeth at this point, as if it ever did, and John has filed any patents he's wanted to protect long ago, and then subsequently HIMSELF, put out in the public domain other artwork, ideas, cab design, etc.!

It has ZERO to do with someone's ability to talk about the pin, criticize it, rave about it, bitch about John not paying bills, etc.......so no need to hide behind that excuse.

In fact, the NDA he is using is not very good if its the same one I signed years ago.

#1573 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

first i've heard of a date as well.. where did that even come from? Is that confirmed? If so, it's exciting to see a real date out there. If he said "end of year" then I would vote no reveal before end of year.

He stated Dec. 17th and I know of a couple of people going to Chicago for the actual reveal.

I think they will be pretty disappointed if they fly all the way there, show up, and John is nowhere to be found.

Also, there is a "big update" coming the first week of January for RAZA.

12
#1574 4 years ago

It's taking so long, the patents are probably all public domain by now!

#1575 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Also, there is a "big update" coming the first week of January for RAZA.

I'd settle for just an answer to Frolics question.

#1577 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

FAST Pinball is developing a new pinball hardware platform for developing new games, as well as enhancing existing games. We are also working with pinball designers to provide design, build and engineering support to get games to market. Let designers be designers.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Aaron, what exactly do you have to do with Jpop's games and when did you enter into some kind of contract/NDA with him?

#1578 4 years ago
Quoted from slapshot:

Aaron, what exactly do you have to do with Jpop's games and when did you enter into some kind of contract/NDA with him?

He can't discuss it

-2
#1579 4 years ago
Quoted from slapshot:

Aaron, what exactly do you have to do with Jpop's games and when did you enter into some kind of contract/NDA with him?

John and I have gotten to know each other over the years and we have an NDA in place to allow us to speak more freely about our respective endeavors.

That is all that is appropriate to share in a public forum.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#1580 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

John and I have gotten to know each other over the years and we have an NDA in place to allow us to speak more freely about our respective endeavors.

That is all that is appropriate to share in a public forum.

#1581 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

John and I have gotten to know each other over the years and we have an NDA in place to allow us to speak more freely about our respective endeavors.
That is all that is appropriate to share in a public forum.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Crock.

#1582 4 years ago

??? I gather we approach business and relationships differently.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

PS: if it puts you at ease, I would have no problem sharing with all of you what I saw at John's workspace if I found him stuffing cash into trunks preparing to make a run to the border. But I assure you (and feel it is all right for me to say) that this was not what I saw.

#1583 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

??? I gather we approach business and relationships differently.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
PS: if it puts you at ease, I would have no problem sharing with all of you what I saw at John's workspace if I found him stuffing cash into trunks preparing to make a run to the border. But I assure you (and feel it is all right for me to say) that this was not what I saw.

So you're saying the money's all spent?

12
#1584 4 years ago

It's a bit funny that John is working with Fast Pinball (fast and John don't seem to go together).

I found a funny pic of how fast John is:

snail-vs-turtle.jpg

#1585 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

It's a bit funny that John is working with Fast Pinball (fast and John don't seem to go together).
I found a funny pic of how fast John is:

snail-vs-turtle.jpg 58 KB

Now that.......is F ing Funny!!!

#1586 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

But I assure you (and feel it is all right for me to say) that this was not what I saw.

Are you sure? Holy crap, I think we have a violation here! You implied a whole bunch of crap in that statement that surely has to be confidential.

#1587 4 years ago

I haven't meant to imply that I am aware of any big secrets or anything. Rereading some of my posts could imply that I do.

I like John and think he is a great designer. My NDA is there only so we could discuss ways we may work together someday. That's all.

I am going to bow out of this thread so it can stay on topic.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#1588 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

I haven't meant to imply that I am aware of any big secrets or anything. Rereading some of my posts could imply that I do.

I like John and think he is a great designer. My NDA is there only so we could discuss ways we may work together someday. That's all.

I am going to bow out of this thread so it can stay on topic.

Seriously Aaron, I was kidding, man, seems you should lighten up a bit and take it for what it is.

You couldn't violate the NDA at this point if you tried. Yes I've seen/heard it all.

#1589 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

My NDA is there only so we could discuss ways we may work together someday. That's all.

So you have an NDA in place even though you aren't working together?

Makes perfect sense!

#1590 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Seriously Aaron, I was kidding, man, seems you should lighten up a bit and take it for what it is.
You couldn't violate the NDA at this point if you tried. Yes I've seen/heard it all.

With your last few comments, you obviously do not know what an NDA is.

He CAN break it, and it wouldn't be good for him, legally or for future business relationships. (Example? If I found out he broke someone else's NDA, it'd seriously cause me to second-guess whether I wanted to work with him at all.

It doesn't matter what John's financial status is - until the company folds, or John breaks something in the NDA, Aaron can't, in good consciousness.

#1591 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

So you have an NDA in place even though you aren't working together?
Makes perfect sense!

Yes - NDA's help transfer information from one party to another, about future projects without either party worrying about giving an edge to a possible competitor (or losing the idea to a third party..)

#1592 4 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

It doesn't matter what John's financial status is - until the company folds, or John breaks something in the NDA, Aaron can't, in good consciousness.

Are you implying he could sleep talk and it would be OK?

Or maybe you meant conscience.

#1593 4 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

With your last few comments, you obviously do not know what an NDA is.
He CAN break it, and it wouldn't be good for him, legally or for future business relationships. (Example? If I found out he broke someone else's NDA, it'd seriously cause me to second-guess whether I wanted to work with him at all.
It doesn't matter what John's financial status is - until the company folds, or John breaks something in the NDA, Aaron can't, in good consciousness.

I assure you I know what an NDA is and how to draft a proper one that actually protects my client.

The point, that you seem to have missed, is that there is no "information" or "proprietary information" of any substance available for disclosure, thus he can't "violate it". Get it?

In addition, there are plenty of people that have walked through John's den of secrecy without signing the NDA and thus making it a public disclosure. Not to mention the fact that the NDA I signed doesn't even include FUTURE statements, work product, info, disclosures, etc.

Only what was known and intended at the time of the agreement. Aaron walked into John's place of business, thus he signed an NDA, simple as that.

#1594 4 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Yes - NDA's help transfer information from one party to another, about future projects without either party worrying about giving an edge to a possible competitor (or losing the idea to a third party..)

pure fantasy, what are "damages" again? Cease and desist? His breach of contract issues are a much bigger problem for him than any ridiculous NDA violation claim.

What he used to hold over people's heads was that if you disclosed any pictures or info you would be refunded and booted out of the project. Imagine that.

Hey people, want a refund, starting posting pictures everywhere, maybe he'll shoot you a check that way.

#1595 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

pure fantasy, what are "damages" again?

This is the bottom line, and is why NDA's like those in place with the owners aren't really worth the paper that they are written on. Like you said, the only leverage he would really have would be to issue a refund and say "no pin for you".

I know that the NDA that I signed certainly didn't include a liquidated damages clause.

#1596 4 years ago

One layer of bullshit over another . Amazing mess is all this is.

#1597 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

This is the bottom line, and is why NDA's like those in place with the owners aren't really worth the paper that they are written on. Like you said, the only leverage he would really have would be to issue a refund and say "no pin for you".
I know that the NDA that I signed certainly didn't include a liquidated damages clause.

some would welcome a refund at this point.

It's really frustrating that this project as with Predator has disintegrated from what should be fun and exciting to such a low state of morale and lack of communication is one of the main factors.

#1598 4 years ago

Has anyone talked to john recently? I called once and he promptly returned my call. I haven't called back because I don't think our conversation would be positive at this point.

#1599 4 years ago

You know in my experience, the eccentric type usually mean well and try to do right but unfortunately they're terrible in business dealings.

#1600 4 years ago

It would be nice if there were threads where lawyers could bore the crap out of each other away from the general public.

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