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I thought this thread would dry up like JPOP's bank account.

"Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, you’ve been a wonderful audience. I’ll be here all week. Try the veal. And don’t forget to tip your servers”

That is a poor comparison and worth note that we are not done with Kevin. Criminal charges are still likely but Midland MI is a much different place than the upper middle class neighborhoods of chitown suburbs.

Agreed. Ignorance and lying about progress are not crimes no matter how much one wants them to be.

Of course, if Zidware's accounting records are as disorganized as rumors indicate, that part could get interesting. Any court process will make MG development look speedy.

How is lying about progress not a crime when the sole intent of the lie is to create more incoming capital and then that capital is diverted to something other than the intended purpose?

I think the question is not "is it a crime", but "will anyone do anything about it".

In the Predator case, the local police and FBI decided not to pursue it, but that seemed more like they didn't want to be bothered to put the effort in, not them determining the legality of it.

for now...

In Australia trading while insolvent is illegal and can end you in jail http://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/insolvency/insolvency-for-directors/directors-consequences-of-insolvent-trading/

John was still collecting money across state lines for games he new would never be made!
How is that not a crime?

Surprise surprise. And I got called a conspiracy theorist for saying that would happen. Where is the prototype?

I notice you say they got a bill of sale. That is convenient because they could easily ship it across the border to Canada now.

Actually I believe all 4 proto types had been reserved and bought although one might have had Johns name on it, can't remember. Why is this a surprise? They were numbered and sold by John to obviously bring in more money.... big conspiracy. I don't know if they will go to the actual owners though as they were never finished or delivered and might remain as a "common asset" This would be up to the judge or trustee. The proto at the show is on it's way back to Zidware.

Not terrible advice, but if everyone followed it we'd be singing "God Save the Queen" before every baseball game.

Really? Because I called him the same thing, like five or six posts about you, and .. noone noticed.

Is Noone a mod now ?

Because they weren't offered to the public to make the maximum profit, which indicates it was a back-room deal as a favor to friends. With no concern for the value it has to his creditors. After he declared himself insolvent. Yes, it is a conspiracy when people "conspire" behind closed doors to make deals that benefit each other during an effective bankruptcy. Yes, it will be up to the courts, but that doesn't take away the fact that the jackals have been looting the place behind closed doors. While being praised as saviors. Laughable.

Not anymore. I don't believe that anyone cared that somebody was and noone wasn't, so noone got up and left.

Anyways, back to the other conversation...

I think you are misunderstanding.. my read is that the prototypes were also pre ordered from John years ago; not just now in a back room deal.

And this. So arrogant. "Had the foresight"? You think half the people who paid into this didn't want to get their hands on that prototype? What drug are you smoking? Let me guess, it's somebody who you think is a super awesome and nice business man, so he "deserves it" more than everybody else.

Oh, well if we are talking years ago I apologize. My statements are if the prototypes were sold since late 2014 when we all knew this was going under.

I'll take care of that, O-din is allowed some time off from the forums.

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Who are the "Jackals" that are "looting the place" who are being praised as saviors, inquiry minds want to know! I'm sure the judge would like to know as well

Lol, it's cool, nobody needs to agree with me and everyone can assume what they want about what I said. I am just wondering why collectively, the biggest legal can of whoop ass, private investigation, constant surveillance just so he has no privacy wherever possible, picketing outside his home, posting notices in all the places he frequents about him, getting liens, contacting everyone he knows via phone, letter, email or whatever to let them know about this sham he pulled, etc. has not been ongoing since day 1. If anyone wants to interpret that as doing something illegal, well, there's some very fine lines that you can get right up against, so study the applicable laws and guide yourselves accordingly.

Depends on how one looks at it. Was there supposed to be just 13 machines originally (with no prototypes)? Are these "prototypes" just unfinished machines and they really are the ones that belonged to buyers 1-4 (if John had ever finished them)?

It will blow if John now decides these are prototypes that were never intended to be delivered to anyone on the customer list and he's now going to sell them to other people.

I'm one of the people who paid into this. And yes I do think they had great foresight. I wish I had it. They bought the prototype YEARS AGO. As much as you want a conspiracy, there's not one here.

And all the buyers I think are good guys. We'd have to be patient and trusting to be conned for as long as we have been.

Most people who bought into jpop did so "years ago" as well. Just because someone bought a prototype does not necessarily give them priority in BK proceedings.

Zidware must be forced into bankruptcy ASAP so these "sales" can be undone and the assets returned to zidware for auction and distribution to creditors.

The Journey Isn't The Reward.

What's a noone? Is that pronounced noon-E and is that like a nooner? I like those.

Is it possible to have someone who is intently following this thread make a new thread when something actually comes of this whole mess?

How do you propose to prove that was the intent?

I just count on Nate at C2C to update me if something actually happens in here.

There is a locked official update thread already.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-pintasia-update-thread

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Thanks,
That was a crazy turn of events. Does anyone know the value that Jpop placed on this project when signing it over to Bill?

No, he's too busy getting ready for the Flower Power Cruise.

http://www.ispot.tv/ad/78Tq/2016-flower-power-cruise-relive-the-60s-featuring-peter-noone

So with JPLOP turning out to be a doosh, will all his actual games (CV, TOM, etc.) plummet in value because people don't want his stink on their games?

Doubtful. Most people aren't even that aware of designers, just us hard core weirdos.

Noonan?

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You keep using this word... I do not think it means what you think it means...

Because promising to deliver a game... delivering which can be done via many many paths. Where was this capital 'diverted'? There is no constraint that says revenue from a product must goto building that product. Spending revenue on zidware initiatives and expenses is not criminal - stupid? sure.. but failing is not criminal.

People were paying to have a game delivered by Zidware... zidware could have still sold the idea and had someone else build and deliver the games as just one of many possible avenues. Taking money before that path is realized is not criminal.

Lying about progress is a grey area that would be very difficult to pursue - we're not talking securities violations here where John is selling investors on false pretenses, we're talking about simple consumer protection laws. Those result in fines and refunds.. not criminal violations.

People here are customers - not investors. Whole separate ball of wax..

For the same kind of reasons Kevin could argue "negotiations are still ongoing" - even if you think they are probably never going to end favorable.

John said he was going to build these games himself. He even said he would come to your house to complete assembly. He promised to make these himself and we relied an that promise when we gave him money . It was a lie. He never intended to build these himself. He represented that he would build these himself and on that basis victims gave him money.

In addition I paid for RAZA , not for MG to be developed and built. The math now shows he never intended to build MG with MG money but that he had to divert funds from victims, in an Ongoing fashion, in order to keep,the lights on. He intended only to keep going. He never intended to build a machine. That means he lied and sold that lie to convince victims to give him money .

So any news from court today?

you should not talk about what you do not know and is not in favor of helping anyone but the criminals

Ignorance doesn't change the law... you can hide from it and wish it was different... but you're only fooling yourself...

The better informed people are.. the better chance they won't make mistakes again.

Is that a condition in your contract? If not.. its just part of the sales pitch which is non-binding and could be changed as conditions dictated.

Unless John's secret diary reveals that this was all a intentional scam from the start, I'm not sure how you get past the possibility (and as a criminal defendant, all he needs is a reasonable possibility to overcome the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard) that he's just an idiot dreamer who, like many failed businessmen before him, went down in flames still believing that things would somehow turn around and he'd make good on all of his empty promises.

This thread is going down hill.