Spooky has officially announced title 2 (rob zombie), and john will never finish one

Unfortunately, it's not illegal to give oneself salary from one's own company nor is it illegal to take additional draws for personal things as long as you claim it as personal income. I see no chance of him going to jail for these things. Zero. They may help win a civil suit but there won't be any money to pay the suers so it's really a waste of time.

I don't think that's been figured out.

Copy and paste from my owners group post just now:

I sent an email to Zane today asking him to call me. I'll let the group know what I find out if Zane returns my call. I figure it would be wise to at the very least hear what he has to say.

If I decide to jump into this it will be without ANY expectations of recovering funds or even recouping my $500 investment in his services. Recovering any money paid to John Popadiuk would be a bonus.

I had to break the news to my spouse that Bill decided not to continue and that we are truly at Game Over. This was a very difficult conversation to have and the effects are ongoing even after 3 days.

It may be petty but I want to be honest with the group that my motives in possibly joining Zane's lawsuit are purely driven by revenge and the desire to make JPop suffer as bad as he has made us suffer. Knowing what I know now and looking back on some awkward conversations I've had with JPop I am coming to realize I think he knew he could not build these games.

I flew to Chicago once to check on the progress of the games. We went to dinner at a Pho place in the parking lot of Shaumburg GameWorks. I wrote him a check at dinner for the balance due of RAZA because a payment was coming up and he was extremely weird about it. Extremely uncomfortable. He was very uncomfortable I could tell. So much so, that I took note of it at the time, but at the time I thought he was just uncomfortable handling money. Thinking back I was just naive. I realize know that he might have known then that he had either no intention of building the games or he knew he had no ability to build and ship the games and he felt guilty about taking my check in person.

That kind of person doesn't sit well with me. I'll let you all know what Zane says...

Also, I have been considering selling off my entire collection and abandoning pinball completely over the last few weeks but I have decided not to do that. In fact, I decided to order from a startup that knows how to design a beautiful game and do the legwork and due diligence necessary to bring that game to market. My first NIB and I couldn't be happier with my purchase, Whizbang's WNBJM!

WTF?!

Perhaps he means "in some shape or form" to be Zizzle style; though truthfully I find it hard to believe JPop could even build out a Zizzle style game...he certainly couldn't manufacture anything that sophisticated.

I'm glad you recovered and didn't do it! Buying a refurbed RFM was my recovery.

I hope you get some justice with Zane, as I'm hoping to. As you say, money is only part of it. But who knows? Mr Ploppy may have more Zidware money than he lets on, given he's an abject liar, or may lose his personal assets. But mainly, I want him to man up and face the music, as he's avoided doing so far in a most cowardly fashion. In the 'stress test' of this situation, he has shown what a weasel, coward of a man he is.

In the last couple of weeks, Bill gave me hope that the world that seemed to be spiraling out of control could be made right again. He was our national anchor and our visionary. His vision for this project was akin to what my grandfather would tell me about the way FDR saved this country with the New Deal.

double post.

Zidware's Zizzle machines had also been a success, so it wasn't the case that this was an unproven company. Moreover, there was the Pinball Wizard app. But mostly, here was a designer with arguably 3 of the top 10 DMD pinballs to his name, presenting what could potentially have shaped up to be a sequel to TOM. It looked good at the time. I guess industry insiders knew Jpop was likely to fail given his flakey track record, and that was the due diligence I didn't do.

Unfortunately, pre-ordering is a risk, which sometimes fails. That's why I won't be doing it again.

Then again if you had your choice no one would have made a pinball machine after 1997...

Bill, this experience, along with over 15,000 posts, should clearly indicate that some people around here just aren't comfortable without a giant stick in their ass.

I applaud your efforts.

Feel free to explain because I have no idea what you're talking about... doubt you do as well.

This is my contention, money was paid for a game, not to pay John a salary. john was not hired as an empoyee, he was paid to deliver a game, no salary should have been taken IMO. He should have figured the cost to deliver the pin and if money was left over that would have been his salary.

If his contention was that the money ran out becasue he took too long and therefor his salary ate up all the deposit money that's a fraud because he was solely responsible for the timeframes.

This site is broken because every time I hit enter it leaves the post as if it still has to be sent, so we're getting hundreds of double posts.

Also when you hit enter it brings you pack to the previous page not the last post like it should.

This is exactly what I told John, he wanted me to wait for him to resell my spot before he give me a refund. I told him I wasn't asking to resell my spot, I was demanding a refund, it was his problem what to do with the game not mine, I told him he had his chance to deliver but since he hadn't than my money wa no longer his to use, I told him to keep his game and give me my refund.

But John surely thought he was going too sell the company and his salary draw was warranted

I believe the tax code has stated limits on the amount of a salary that can be drawn if you are a owner of the company. People push the limits all the time, but in this case with nothing to show for it, might be a different story. And again - how much money was used to make the KISS prototype and the other activities that the buyers funded? There is also the issue of unearned revenue. The two ways that will get the IRS to sink their teeth into you are not claiming revenue and not paying your employees and the tax associated with it, although he might have only had contractors.

There is money left. I will get some of it through a lawsuit. Others will get money that file lawsuits. IMHO There is a case for embezzlement, fraudulent transfer, and other criminal misdeeds. All of that will be pursued...every detail...until we find it. IMHO , given his track record, there is ZERO chance that there is no criminal activity.

If you really can't see taking people's money for one project and using it for something else as a crime I suggest you brush up on fraudulent transfer and embezzlement. Embezzlement is not hard to prove. IMHO Neither is fraudulent transfer in this case. I mean on the very face of things money used to build MG taken from RAZA and AIW depositors is fraudulent.

Some guys won't ever see the light and that's cool. Clearly, some here don't want anything bad to happen to john Popadiuk . Hate to break it to you fellas - you are wrong. Just watch

Call Zane if you have doubts

I am John, i give you this,but you paid for that..

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Gah ! He looks like a girl...a homeless girl.

Not sure if your post was supposed to be sarcastic?

I know many were looking for any shred of hope in this mess, but honestly, that pintasia plan never seemed like it made sense from day 1. From the horrible initial email from jpop, to the request for protection from lawsuit, to the announcement of the "expert team" that included a ponzi expert, to the general lack of detail, etc, etc.

What came after followed an unfortunately standard gameplan:
1. A faithful and overzealous supporter(s) floods the conversation
2. Any critical comments are furiously and shrilly refuted
3. The critics themselves are discredited as "unbelievers"
4. The victims are given hope that "something's better than nothing"
5. Disagreement rises to the level of "hating pinball"
6. Rinse and repeat.

How can we stop that? As a community I mean, not moderation. Let's talk about how to stop people from robbing us.

It just feels like the community ... helped ... these guys rob our own community. I want that to stop. There are a couple of pinsiders who IMHO are guilty of supporting John's lies as well, right up to a few days ago. Hell - there are some guys in this thread encouraging people NOT to sue. That should be VERY suspicious to everyone here. What is their goal in preventing people from joining a lawsuit? The lawsuit is filed, done deal, can't be stopped, so what are they doing? Encouraging victims to "just move on" or "just take it and enjoy it as a life lesson" is totally insane.

You got robbed. Do something about it!

Assuming that you can just file as a creditor later leaves out so many steps and is so naive that I'll let others discuss that, have to learn sometime I guess, just hate for people to get victimized twice. Once by John Popadiuk and again by armchair internet lawyers giving bad advice right here in this thread, repeatedly.

People like me now don't need any help lol. Eyes wide open staying in this long for sure. I think rai got a refund ~ 6 months ago so I certainly could have gotten one then as well. But the new guys...IMHO as a community we should do a better job.

After posting hit the next page, then scroll down.

Plus IMO John's books need to be audited. Where did the money go? How much is left? If he didn't keep meticulous records that's a problem for John.

If he took a salary, did he report that and pay taxes? That'll be real interesting, the IRS doesn't mess around.

It's funny to read these John apologists saying don't sue there is no money. But until he gets a financial colonoscopy I don't believe anything his cheerleaders are saying.

Damn, I just had a ZIzzle thought. What if JP makes a mini game - similar to Ben Heck's mini-pinball experiment shown over on Element14.com and calls that a completed and delivered MG and RAZA? It would be fraud on so many levels - but weirder thoughts have come from the Zidware lab.

John stated himself that he has no money. So that seems unlikely.

Andrew

The are no sharks left to jump.

Rommy - do you know (and this is totally an honest question) what records are needed to show fradulent transfer? It seems there may have been zero booking - it that a plus for the buyers side in the lawsuit? Seems that the contract with deadlines and deposit schedule, and then the timing of the taking of RAZA and AIW monies, before MG was delivered are strong evidence too.

This is one of the things has has me scratching my head.

John has lied to so many people on so many topics, and yet, many take his statement of "being broke" as somhow being truthful? Even though getting folks to believe this would be incredibly self-serving?

Jeez, now its the Pinside Communities fault… because of differing opinions… one way to stop people from taking your money… don't GIVE it to them.

Someone who shall remain anonymous who has John's ear told me something quite telling. John said "I've never made this much money from pinball in my life!". Just hearing that ...."made this much money" ...made my skin crawl. He thought it was his....not for the project. His.

IMO, he got addicted to the cash & probably still has a lot of it. It's not his to keep. Hopefully audits will happen to bring out the truth as to where the money went. If he has ANY of it, it must be returned.

There will probably be a 15,000+ post thread on the Forensic Accountant version of Pinside when that happens.

Who is paying the forensic accountant?

That actually makes a lot of sense As long as he is drawing a salary and not receiving project based compensation he really has no motivation to deliver a game. Financially it makes more sense to him to draw this out as long as possible.

image.jpg

Obviously, people need to draw a salary to pay for Health Insurance (at least in the USA), Rent, Auto, Food....

Amazon did not make any money for a dozen years, but I'm sure Jeff Beozs drew a salary.

My point exactly, the contract was not for him as a consultant or artist at large, it was a contract to build a game which he didn't do, so IMO he didn't earn a cent of that money.

According to John he stopped drawing a salary in Nov 14.

Whether that's true or not that's what he said.

I disagree, Bill Gates and Paul Allen sold their first version of BASIC, they didn't get paid to try, they got paid for making a product. If the BASIC program was not able to work, they would have gotten jack squat.

Look at the contract agreement, it says nothing about paying John's health insurance or car insurance or anything else, it was a contract to buy a game which John would supply, if he doesn't deliver the game, he shouldn't get to keep the money.

Let's say I go to McDonald's and order a meal. If they don't give me the meal, (say their oven isn't working), then they have to give me my money back. I don't care if they have to pay their employees (that's their problem not mine) and the courts (I believe) protect the consumer.

It's the law, you have to carry health insurance.

It's not like Obama is going to say "Hey, you are working full time on building a pinball machine? Sweet! Let me excuse you from our nation's health insurance laws...."

hell ya.jpeg

QSS

health insurance as a company is only mandatory if you employee more than 12 people. As for John by himself, who's to say he couldn't sign on to his wife's insurance plan?

I can believe that. Sad thing is, he stiffed his vendors like Jim well before that. So he took money for himself but didn't pay vendors for several months or more.

Jeez, now its Obama's fault… although that is something I can agree with. He may be the only bigger loser than John Pop-a-dick.

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They changed the law, EVERY citizen has to buy health insurance if their employer does not provide it.

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His wife is self-employed too.

Really Vid, I don't understand where you are coming from. It sounds like you are very much on John's side when in face (clearly) he is in breach anyway you look at it, and he will be forced into total liquidation (and hopefully that will extend to his private assets). Can you please explain why you seem to be taking John's side?

LOL on this being your argument why John doesn't have to provide a machine.

Just when you think Jpop couldn't be anymore of a douche, you read something like this and he tops himself.

Probably not a good time to start a pinball company then. Last time I checked it was something between $200-$600 per person to sign up for obamacare depending on coverage (still better than cobra, but only marginally).

Like a few have said before, maybe John should have started out really small at first, test the waters.. Like maybe just sketch up playfield layouts and sell prints, not go into a full fledged "pinball company" with a giant studio.

It's like I watch some of these restaurant impossible shows, and some of these restaurants are like 5,000 sq feet, and the owners have never ran a restaurant before. How about you try a catering service with little overhead instead of going full throttle in case things don't work out?