Interesting. I'm curious as to what others think. It is understood that if he were to do jail time, it would be the result of some pretty insidious deliberate acts on his part. He won't go to jail for simply being a bad businessman. So if he were convicted and the charges were significant enough for him to actually do time, is that really a "dark mark" on the hobby. I admit I am new to this so maybe John is a demigod, whose fall from grace is devastating. There are prominent people from almost every industry who have done bad things and been convicted and served time. Yet, the industry seems to do just fine. I realize this fiasco has dampened the passion of many; however, would the fact that John does time make more people leave the hobby and fewer enter? Since Aurich is a level-headed, elder statesman, I am guessing others feel the same..while I couldn't care less if he does time or not. Hence, my question

you gotta wonder where the prototypes are right now...

When you take in a large amount of money for any company or service or any business purpose you have a fiduciary duty to those who paid it to you to handle the money responsibly or put professionals in place to do it for you. It is not a case where you handed your money over so if it disappears its your own fault. That is not correct and the way john has run his business after collecting the money is absolutely a crime. He is not absolved of his duty to produce the product and manage the company in a financially responsible way after you hand over your money. On this, you are simply wrong, aurich.

Naw, bad progress estimates aren't lies, over selling a sales pitch - not a lie, lack of business plan? Not unusual, waste of resources - no doubt, but again just poor management. Bad records on accounting? Sure. Intent? how do you proove. Salary w/o paying others - also is a common thing.

As much as folks want punishment - my opinion is that the legal system will empathize, but not find civil or criminal judgments.

Let's just bring on the bankruptcy and sell off the parts. No more pinball arts & crafts.

Why, because I think he shouldn't go to jail? That he should pay for it financially instead? Including bankruptcy, selling off assets, and repaying anything and everything he can? That while I feel for everyone who lost money on this I also believe that when you take a risk the possibility of getting burned has to be taken into account?

I promise I'm not saying I told you so. I'm not victim blaming. I think John screwed everyone, it sucks, and I wish you had your games. But if you got back, I dunno, 2 years or something, I was saying I thought this was a horrible idea, and people shouldn't send John money. It was a genuine risk, no guarantees. And the worst case has basically come to pass, but we all knew it was possible right?

John is a crappy person in my mind. I could say it nastier than that, but it's good enough. And not just for being a space case, and a control freak, but for lying to people, for stringing them along, for screwing vendors, and just all around doing everything he could to F this all up.

And that's lawsuit territory, no question. His name is, and should be, mud in pinball now. If he never comes to another show again it will be too soon. Take his money, whatever he has. He was steward of your million, and he didn't take his responsibility seriously.

Maybe on the way to the Chinese pinball factory to be dissected. . BOM there is expected to be sub 3k.

Certainly cause bankruptcy? Not the lawsuits... I would guess as long as Zidware is still hoping to deliver, and there was no contractual deadline (was there a delivery date in the contract/purchase agreement that was violated?), there will be little for a judge to rule a chapter 7 is warranted.

I don't even think a group of pre-orders could force an involuntary, b/c there is no lack of contract fulfillment if no dates were written or promised.

THere's a lot of angry pinsiders and pre-order "owners", but I haven't seen anything a judge could consider as a breach of contract, fraud or theft. Just a bad business guy, with too optimistic pre-orders that will not be fulfilled. If no refunds were offered in the contract - I also think that collections or judgments for refunds have no basis either.

post number 15007?

Nah. Lots of people in pinball are probably not surprised, including everyone who's ever worked with him.

I guess maybe I'm just too soft hearted or something, but the idea that someone would do jail time for failing to build a pinball just kinda depresses me. I wouldn't want that to be part of the hobby I love.

Go after him though, he deserves it. And I don't think the law will indicated jail time. And if it does then it will be, in my opinion, because he did things even worse than we know about right now. And then so be it.

post number 15007?

The new server is doing some really squirrelly stuff right now.

Having talked in person to people who have lost thousands, I can tell you the remedies they were the most keen on didn't involve bankruptcy, they involved visits to the ER.

People are pissed.

I wouldn't put it past Popaduik to show up at a pinball show in the future though - he's clearly delusional and it might not even occur to him that he might face Great Harm™ showing up.

That post was not a direct quote and should be taken as such until someone posts the quote in its full context and unedited.

As is agreed by all, john is a bad businessman, and after reading one of the posts above regarding them not finding any evidence of zidware being a legal entity, I have to wonder if he was so bad, that it will end up being good. Meaning, if he really did not create a true legal entity that would provide protection for him personally from liability, then all of his personal assets become available for vendors and customers to pursue, which would obviously provide far greater assets than there would be if zidware is a legal entity. It would also put John in a painful situation for much longer then just zidware going bankrupt and clearly most here would to see him feel the pain for as along as possible.

The checks I sent were made to "Zidware Inc"

If it were a kickstarter/crowdsourced thing.. yes. But here, people were signing up to buy a product (alas knowing their purchase was from a fledgling company). They were customers, not investors. Investors assume risks in hopes of a payout... here these people never expected anything but the game they ordered. They are not investors in their roles.. which is also why they have no claim to zidware's assets or residuals.

I agree - 'failing to deliver on a sales order' != criminal fraud.

Maybe he started a Sole Proprietorship called "Zidware Inc". I wouldn't be surprised.

Waiting for STI to pick it up and be sent back to Zidware.

Obviously an oversimplification, but:

If Kevin at SkitB isnt going to face criminal charges (after CLEARLY misrepresenting the product and violating licensing, etc, etc) it's hard to imagine jpop will.

Doesn't make it right or better, but I think criminal charges are a pipe dream.

The "good" news is criminal charges aren't necessary to ruin his life....

didn't someone previously in this thread do a corp lookup? His wife was a director of the company. Sounds like it is incorporated.

Yes, Zidware, Inc. is incorporated in the State of Illinois (File No.: 66577511).

Use the following link, and search for Corporate > Key Word > Zidware.

http://www.ilsos.gov/corporatellc/

ZidwareInc.jpg

No, this is your OPINION... you'd have an incredibly high standard to breach to argue criminal fault in simply making bad choices. Misappropriating money, laundering, embezzling, etc.. ok, you'd have something to fight with. But you have none of that, your whole position is "They failed, they failed because of JPop, hence he's a fraud, and a criminal". You really have nothing.

New TBL update references Jpop. Things are still looking good. Some positive news for a change.

TBL1.jpg

TBL2.jpg

TBL3.jpg

TBL4.jpg

TBL5.jpg

+1
John did confirm with me yesterday that he had the shipping arranged.

How true it is...but understated.

There are ways to make anything tolerable.

image.jpg

Isn't it risky for DP to be using light tubes since JJP has already done that in WOZ and Jack said they have a bunch of patent applications for WOZ and Hobbit?

JJP didn't invent light pipes, so I doubt it.

Anfd that pic looks like they have the same issues as WOZ. The light isn't "thrown". Look how dark everything around it is. We'll see when it's done...

We already have precedent with a start up that was flat out lying about licensing, took money and spent some or all of it. The FBI was involved, local cops were involved. The FBI and local cops said no crimes had been committed. Look up Skit B... If he isnt getting popped, then JisntgettingPOPPED.

This is so completely wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.

I seriously can't even believe what I just read.

You're not alone in your thinking. I couldn't care less if Jpop goes to jail (but it would be great if he did). The actions of Zidware have zero impact on how I feel about the hobby. Black mark on the hobby if Jpop does time? Not in my world. The only thing I take from this debacle, is DON'T preorder, ever!

Get that letter he posted (where he admitted there are no longer enough funds to make the games) in front of a judge in BK court and you may get an involuntary bankruptcy...

As soon as I read about John hoping for a millionaire coming in to save the day, I pictured President Nixon when he was leaving the White House for the last time.
He went up the helicopter steps, turned around with a big smile and flashed the v for victory fingers in the air.
Everyone was like "really?" Victory?
John seems to be doing the same thing.....wow.

I pulled out of my driveway once, (1 lane road) and got behind a guy driving 4 miles per hour. After about 10 minutes, we got to the red light, and he stopped half a block in front of it. I could tell the guy was obviously inebriated, so I called the police. Got them on the line (the police office is about a quarter mile from this red light), and told them what was going on. "O.K., we're trying to intercept the car". So I drove behind the guy for another mile after he started moving, swerving all over the place. Eventually he started speeding. we're on a 4 lane road going through neighborhoods, he's driving on the left lane, even up on the sidewalk at one point. Could have killed all kinds of people... every few minutes, he stops the car right in the middle of the road. The whole time I'm driving behind him (at legal speeds) talking to the operator.

We drive all the way across town, took probably 20 minutes. The guy eventually pulls into a McDonalds, and parks backwards in the drivethrough, turns the car off. The operator informed me that a police officer had finally 'caught up' with us (this is a city of a million people), and had seen the guy park the car, but since he wasn't driving it anymore, he went ahead and cleared the call out. So she informed me that I could watch him for awhile to see if he left again, then call them back.

That was the last time I tried to be a good citizen

Revealed! the machine is supposedly near the Port of Tacoma at 3500 20th Street E. in Fife, Washington 98424

I was waiting for the story to end with the cop giving you a ticket for using a phone while driving.

I wonder how many people were in for all three games!? Oh boy that would hurt like a Mother!!!

I find it disappointing that someone can get away with something like this and most people are like, "Meh, what can you do?"

There are always ways to get justice or get your money back. It depends upon whether you're going to let yourself be railroaded or not.

There's a good argument to let it go, but the problem is, that enables the scammers and the horrible people. They count on people being too distracted, lazy or non-confrontational to go after them.

John's wife is listed as the secretary of the company. She appears to be formally associated with the recordkeeping and a culpable party. Does she work somewhere? Why don't you call call her employer and explain what's going on? I'd be sending letters everywhere. He wants all this to go away, pulling his web site down and hiding, waiting for everybody to forget. And the way things are going, it looks like that's what's going to happen... Nobody really believes he's broke. There are perfectly legal ways to drive home the point that you refuse to be defrauded and best be refunded.. NOW.

Then again, you can just sit and wait and not do anything. But, there were people that hounded John and got their money back. Every day that passes, the chance of being made right gets a little less likely.

Take a look at sites like

http://www.ripoffreport.com/

There are lots of these online where you can post details of your experience with him and his company and it'll stay there. Other people chime in and collaborate to seek justice. There are lots of places like this online designed to help victims organize and fight fraud.

The contracts do offer refunds which John has not honored.
I don't see anyway Zidware can avoid bankruptcy voluntary or involuntary in the next month.

Thanks for the work you put in NW show wouldn't have been possible without your help.

What about the local news? Do they they still do "Help me! I got screwed!" segments? Get a news camera and reporter up in John's face...if ANYTHING, there is a compelling story to be told here. Us Pinball people know what a delusional conman he is....his entire local community should know. If he's not going to pay people back, make him a friggin' pariah in his community. Is he still working as a teacher? Make sure the place that employs him know what an unethical scammer he is. He's taken from the pinball community and won't give back? Well, turnabout is fair play...take his dignity, his reputation, his employment opportunities...see how he likes being screwed.

Hey Aurich, call your buddy at WIRED and have him do a Rise and Fall piece on this. They love stories like that.

Something has to has risen. We now all know JPop was just a phony and dependent on the competent people at Bally/Williams in the 90's for his perceived success.

Better yet, call Adobe!

(or Saul...)

Huh? I thought we had bought limited pinball machines, we were even given serial numbers. I must have missed the part about investing in a startup to hopefully get a pinball machine and that we weren't paying for a product.

Come on, how much this sucks this is very naive to think. Is was a startup from the start. Did he have production line ? A team of engineers ? Office ? Everything was paid for by the preorder money.

Maybe John will join the class action on zidware and put his claims in for all the extra work he put in and didn't get paid for......you guys do realize he's a victim as well......

Ive seen similar things happen...

Ok, I probably don't have the right to say disparaging things about the U.S.
In fact I love being neighbors to the US, my son has married a gal from L.A. And lives in Phoenix, so consider my comments as coming from a "brother in law"- not really in the family but close enough.
Something is terribly wrong with the US judicial system, if someone can rob another's wallet and end up in jail, and all the lawyers, or lawyer wannabes on Pinside, keep saying..nope can't touch John, he's free to go. Maybe I'm too naive.
(Running outside now, to get the garden hose, to douse the flames, that are surely coming)