I'm really starting to think that this is a troll thread that you started. Seriously.

I've asked completely legitimate questions that should be easy to answer, and all you do is get personal and super defensive, with answers like

What kind of response is that? Can't you be calm and not take things so personally? Again, these should be EASY QUESTIONS TO ANSWER. Not one's that incite the kind of responses that you are giving.

I'll make you a deal. Post an actual update & remove all of the insults ...I will remove every thumbs-down.

If you think that our questions are legit, then why did you give some of the responses that you did about the programmer "being an idiot, don't you think" or the pins being assembled by "hamfisted idiots"?

Those don't sound like responses someone would give if they thought the questions were legit.

If you don't know, just say you don't know. Then there wouldn't be all this back and forth nonsense.

well, to be fair, Stern still works in secret and doesn't even announce the title till they are ready to sell. jpop is used to working in secrecy from his time at WMS. The owners blog is his compromise to let the people with some money invested know something about what is happening, but I understand his desire to just work in secret. I think ideally someone fronts him the entire nut to create a game and then sell it after, but what we have now is just how its going to be.

I just wish there were more details on the blog, there are almost no actual details and I'm an owner. The big secret is that there is no big secret. Everytime someone asks to show something it's met with "will show this later" or "waiting for the patent" because "this will get pinched".... I really don't understand why I signed an NDA because I can't really think of anything that I know to disclose. All the known info is already public knowledge (LCD, great art already posted to FB) any other info or specifics like shipping info, production status or who is involved in what fashion isn't on the blog.

There is definitely a game being developed and the art will be nice, I'm sure of it, but that's all I know and it's a little disappointing that I bought into the premise of a shared development experience.

I personally like the mystery surrounding the production process of JPOP's work. It's something refreshing in this effin' Facebook tell all internet atmosphere. As if everything is supposed as upfront and fake as reality television these days. JPOP really does seem a bit mad with how it appears he's going about certain things, but hell that's the way genius always is it seems~

I think there's 2 reasons why john doesn't reveal his hand (just my opinion):
1. if things change direction, he doesn't want to be judged.
2. He wants to give early adopters a reward for believing in him. If he reveals everything, what incentive would you have to pre-order other than guaranteeing you'll be able to buy one?

Stern produces several games a year with less reveals and more mystery than Jpop, so I'm not really sure what tell all you're thinking of.

With Jpop we know the themes of the next three (lol) games, and already have seen some of the art. Stern is some rumors and then a full reveal.

"Never let things be seen half finished: They can only be enjoyed when complete. All beginnings are misshapen, and this deformity sticks in the imagination. The recollection of having seen a thing imperfect disturbs our enjoyment of it when completed ... Let each great master take care not to let his work be seen in its embryonic stages – they might take this lesson from Mother Nature, who never brings the child to the light until it is fit to be seen." - Balthasar Gracian

Talking about your buddy ice.

Well you should know from the blog what the cabinet looks like, the basics of the sound system, who is doing the music and sfx, color proofs of the playfield, several of the toys he's working on, the lcd in attract mode, the wood and clear coat he's going with for the playfield, and all the testing he has done for the lighting.
That's just off the top of my head.
As for production status and shipping info, I think you might be getting a little ahead of yourself there. It's gonna be a while before we cross that bridge.
I'm not sure what more you are expecting besides having the finished pin in your possession.

My mistake in not being specific, I was referring to MG not RAZA. The RAZA blog is updated once or twice a week and usually has color proofs or at least some PF shots or cabinet art concepts etc..and a more lively comment forum. We know much more about RAZA than MG and have no complaints about that game so far (other than timeliness and the encroaching "other themes" possibly overshadowing the main theme).

MG...never seen the back glass, never more than a 6-10" area of the PF in a single shot, not more than half of 1 side of the cab, little in the way of proofs, I couldn't tell you a single toy on the game or what the ramps look like or how many of them, or the lighting system details, or if neon is in the game or a single rule or sound or programmer or artist etc...

My mistake also. I never considered you were talking about MG.
I'm not in on MG, so I had no idea you guys weren't getting similar info. I definitely see your point.

JPop emailed me this morning/last night , TWICE! I knew it of course - just mad scientist keeping track of stuff issues. Well , that and ME being the other party. My life is crazy. I should be back to the blog today...

You see...

I secretly did not want an update for a year. I am about to take a trip in an RV, my first RV trip ever, and I wanted several KILLER things to keep me occupied. Going through 12 whole months of updates on that blog is gonna be (I know I should not use this word here) epic.

For all the other crap people are slinging, this is pretty pathetic. Regardless of whether anyone agrees or disagrees with the secrecy issue, Jpop set his own rules, which is his right. You knew the parameters before you sent in money, that was no secret. You signed a LEGAL document for F#*& sake. And yet you are publicly willing to completely disregard that and hand the information out to anyone that PMs you? That's slimy and classless. I send NDAs to sub-contractor that work for my business all the time; I sure hope they respect my company's privacy more than you do Jpop's.

Jpop has a Facebook page and posts some pictures there. He does not post all the stuff from his blog there. Don't you think that is because he has made a conscious decision of what to make public and what he is trying to keep private? Who are you to overrule that decision for him? You handing out the information despite the NDA you signed is illegal and totally lame. If you respect Jpop as much as you say you do, then don't disrespect him by violating one of his primary requirements as a buyer.

And your "sub-NDA" comment had to be a joke. If you can't even honor an actual legal document from a respected designer like Jpop, who is going to honor a less-than-legal document from some dude on Pinside?

is that you john?

100%

If you think John does not read the forums, you're wrong.

Just sayin'.

Chris

He's posted here before even.

Man, this is his baby, I'm 100% behind him keeping any secrets he wants. Pre-orders for game 3 when the first isn't done or revealed is a little o_O but we're all big boys and girls, spend your money as you like. I hope it goes great for everyone involved. I love bad ass pinball art, by all means, blow me away!

What I don't care for is the "lalalala look what I know about and you don't attitude" (which most people don't have to be clear) and so I can't help but troll that because it's smarmy and annoying and deserves poking.

Let's be honest, this thread is dumb. The game is under NDA, by definition there are no updates to be had. Just enjoy your private blog party, you paid for it after all, and when it's ready for the world to see we can all judge and hopefully be awed and enjoy.

Short version: ice, keep it in your pants.

Maybe this has been brought up before but...

...as someone from the outside looking in, how would one even know what products are being offered other than seeing a few names of games that don't exist floating around?

It seems like if someone wants to sell something, they would provide some information about the product.

Guess I just don't know what's going on here.

It also seems like we're talking something that you have to pay for before you see it. (Have no idea. Threads like this are confusing). Reading this thread, it reads as if you have to deposit some money and sign an NDA before you get to see what is being offered.

Is there an official place to see public information about these games? Otherwise any posts on the subject are just confusing. At the same time, it seems like if someone wants to sell something they would tell the public about that something.

Looking forward to the Breaking Bad prequel "Better call Saul"

Jokes aside, if there is a Jpop thread may be this should be a locked thread updated by a moderator. I am interested in these games, but not enough to scan pages and pages of dispute - legal, illegal, legit or not !-

Opinions on what? You can't even legally discuss anything!

"Did you see that update last night? Pretty cool art huh?"

"Yeah, that ... you know, the center part, that was sweet."

Okay. It's one of those secret clubs like the one in "Eyes Wide Shut" where instead of an orgy you have secret pinball machines. No public info; games are only for the secret wink wink people who paid money for something I assume they never saw anything from before hand.

That's what a person is left to believe.

Wonder what I should be working on today...

Public web site for AIW is here:

http://www.pinballinventor.org/games/wonderland/index.html

Thanks

And, at this point, that's all there is to see. The dev site is not live yet.

Putting big money down pre-ordering anyone's initial game offering is a risk that should only be taken with funds you can afford to lose. The risk with IPB for BBB took almost three years but worked out okay. The risk with JJP for WOZ is working out (though some still don't have their WOZLE yet). MMrLE from PPS doesn't seem to be too big a risk (and only required a $1K deposit). On the other hand, those that jumped in on that Australian MM remake didn't fare too well...

If the risk pays off with Jpop then the reward will be having one of the few copies of a very rare and highly sought after pinball game. Owning Magic Girl may be like having one of the nine Capcom Kingpins.

Hm. And there's not much there. Guess I was right, in a sense. Good luck to all those who are taking the chance.

Irony. You started this thread and haven't discussed anything resembling an update. You should change the name to "JPOP excitement thread" or something....that would solve the issue of this now being a 3 page off-topic thread.

WOZ exists.

Seems like anyone who pre-ordered WOZ and pre-orders AIW needs to start saving their money for a cool pin based on Jules Verne's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. (Aren't all the best new pins coming out going to be based on decades old classic literature from now on?)

Lol, a little late but right on target.

Damn Ice, how could you leave out Kiss from the thread title?

Should be home soooooooon - within weeks !
I have been waiting for mine for more than two years now...

Ummm...I just looked at the top page only, saving it for the trip really. WTF!!! You should not have started this thread man...how the hell are we supposed to NOT talk about that stuff? in this thread?? It's called a "honey pot" , or , as Admiral Ackbar so succinctly put it - "It's a trap!" A thread like this could generate some SERIOUS cash for some lawyers doing the circle jerk sue(tm). All you need is to add one clueless insurance company into the mix and you got a batch brewing!

So you guys (some of you) have bought a pinball machine that comes with an NDA that could potentially cost you many thousands of dollars in damages and legal fees?

I think I can definitely wait for the secondary market on these titles LOL

Damages and legal fees are only a concern if you're an idiot and don't have discretion. I'm very happy with the NDA requirement and where RAZA stands, as well as the blog updates I've received thus far. That said.....I've got a major friggin' space problem and can barely fit one more pin without taking some radical measures. Plus, I'm in on TBL which is a dream theme and one that's looking more and more real each month. So, delaying delivery until late 2014 or early 2015 isn't a problem for me.

However, don't count on a big secondary market for Zidware's pins. JPOP seems to be going for low quantities that will ensure rarity in the future. I really like JPOP's business model and will most likely buy from him again in the future.

This is the central concept. JPOP is keeping his customers informed to the degree he can. And most of them are very happy, and patient. Those that are not can ask for refunds and will get them.

You think the Kiss artwork was cool? MG and RAZA are even better IMO! As for software, I don't know any details but it will be done with some attention. The basic system seems to be in place for all of his games (and it's not P-ROC). And wait until you hear some of the music and sound. Wow. That's all I have.

It sounds like he is culminating new programmers to this specific industry! I think that is fantastic (if true), and helps the future of pinball. I will be seeing Jpop next weekend in Tacoma. Lets get 10 top questions to ask for those who are in on this ride or those who are possibly always still interested on getting in. Programmers was my first one give me more.

Oh and I will ask about NDA and how he sees it. Want to hear from the horses mouth. Disclaimer I have not signed one yet!