(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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14
#14451 4 years ago

I find it concerning the way some people are ejected for name calling yet many are given a pass.

#14452 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

I find it concerning the way some people are ejected for name calling yet many are given a pass.

Considering the last thread eject was issued to someone that was COMPLAINING about the name calling, I would have to agree with you. Mods are you even reading these before issuing the eject??

#14453 4 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

Send him a PM!
I'd recommend he starts a new thread anyway.

Pretty sure the mods are trying to contain all this mess to a single thread. IF he is even going to come back here is should probably stay in a single thread just to keep overall forum noise contained. No reason to give him any special treatment over another user.

#14454 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

Next thing you are reading JPOOP and JFLOP bullshit over here,real cool guys..can we get over that now?

The owners and their money, the hard working suppliers and their money and the pinball community in general were lied to and abused for what....... 4 years correct? I think a little humiliation in return is fair. But I agree let's be big about it, maybe we stop treating johhny with disrespect and welcome him back with open arms....... just as soon as he repays every owner and every vendor. Fair is fair, an eye for an eye and he's got what's coming, right! I see nothing wrong with that, and if in the mean time people want to refer to his company as vaporware and jflop (my personal favorite) I see nothing wrong with it.

He won't do the right thing based on his own morals and his actions so perhaps he can be shamed into doing the right thing.

QSS

#14456 4 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

Send him a PM!
I'd recommend he starts a new thread anyway.

Why? So we can all feel warm and fuzzy, like this is not a sh@tshow? I wish one of my heroes in pinball (Jpop) had not turned this thread into this, but it is what it is.

#14457 4 years ago

This really sucks for those involved. I almost made the jump on predator and wished MG was not so expensive, in the end - my cheapness saved me. Hope this resolves well for those involved.

56
#14458 4 years ago

Besides flushing our money down the toilet, there hasn't been an ounce of remorse or explanation for how 4+ years pass and not a completed prototype for a single game.

We're not even talking about running out of money for production... we're talking NOT EVEN A PROTOTYPE. And he had the gall to walk through expo and hold his nose at the games there.... that people built in their spare time with spare change, and brought to expo to show. God forbid their air vents weren't painted.

"I'm a bad businessman" wouldn't even make up for the lies and coverups all this time. The false reveals. The list goes on.

And now we see the state of Magic Girl, and learn that RAZA is even in worse shape and can't even be fixed up to show... even though he said this in January:

Currently still on track to show a fully built Zombie Adventureland game in February.

He deserves every name anyone wants to call him.

23
#14459 4 years ago

Here's a jpop story.

About four years ago, he was an invited guest to a pinball chat on the VPF virtual pinball chat room.
He had a friend of mine ejected from that chat for "immoral" language. The guy said the F word.

Using the F word is immoral, but swindling people out of a million dollars is just the daily grind of being a top end pinball virtuoso.

#14460 4 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

Using the F word is immoral, but swindling people out of a million dollars is just the daily grind of being a top end pinball virtuoso.

or a successful politician....

#14461 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Besides flushing our money down the toilet, there hasn't been an ounce of remorse or explanation for how 4+ years pass and not a completed prototype for a single game.
We're not even talking about running out of money for production... we're talking NOT EVEN A PROTOTYPE. And he had the gall to walk through expo and hold his nose at the games there.... that people built in their spare time with spare change, and brought to expo to show. God forbid their air vents weren't painted.
"I'm a bad businessman" wouldn't even make up for the lies and coverups all this time. The false reveals. The list goes on.
And now we see the state of Magic Girl, and learn that RAZA is even in worse shape and can't even be fixed up to show... even though he said this in January:

He deserves every name anyone wants to call him.

People seem either very forgiving, very forgetful, or very unknowledgable about this to not understand the extent of JPOP's failure. Any one of us if given 4 years and one million dollars could have come up with a flipping prototype, probably several.

The games might have been crap, they might have been great, but at least the prototypes would have been built.

And I wish I could remember the BoM thread... I believe it was in regards to WoZ being super expensive to build (or NOT) if the BOM was sub 2Kish. Given the manual labor needed to convert the pile of parts into a game, costs of running a factory etc. and of designing the game in the first place, this number sounds "about right" to me if you wanted to make any money selling pins approaching reasonable prices.

Now that I've thought about it Ben commenting on that does not make sense! Must have been someone else who seemed knowledgeable? vid1900? Who knows. Maybe my memory is going...

#14462 4 years ago

editing fail...

#14463 4 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

People seem either very forgiving, very forgetful, or very unknowledgable about this to not understand the extent of JPOP's failure. Any one of us if given 4 years and one million dollars could have come up with a flipping prototype, probably several.
The games might have been crap, they might have been great, but at least the prototypes would have been built.
And I wish I could remember the BoM thread... I believe it was in regards to WoZ being super expensive to build (or NOT) if the BOM was sub 2Kish. Given the manual labor needed to convert the pile of pins into a game, costs of running a factory etc. and of designing the game in the first place, this number sounds "about right" to me if you wanted to make any money selling pins approaching reasonable prices.
Now that I've thought about it Ben commenting on that does not make sense! Must have been someone else who seemed knowledgeable? vid9100? Who knows. Maybe my memory is going...

Exactly. If I had four years, no other job and all that money, I could have learned another language too, and printed the manual in Spanish.

#14464 4 years ago
Quoted from PEN:

Exactly. If I had four years, no other job and all that money, I could have learned another language too, and printed the manual in Spanish.

Yep. It's impossible to get around. It makes you wonder just how many people had to be carrying his ass when he "worked" a B/W....

11
#14465 4 years ago

jay Poop art.jpg
10
#14466 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Besides flushing our money down the toilet, there hasn't been an ounce of remorse or explanation for how 4+ years pass and not a completed prototype for a single game.
We're not even talking about running out of money for production... we're talking NOT EVEN A PROTOTYPE. And he had the gall to walk through expo and hold his nose at the games there.... that people built in their spare time with spare change, and brought to expo to show. God forbid their air vents weren't painted.
"I'm a bad businessman" wouldn't even make up for the lies and coverups all this time. The false reveals. The list goes on.
And now we see the state of Magic Girl, and learn that RAZA is even in worse shape and can't even be fixed up to show... even though he said this in January:

He deserves every name anyone wants to call him.

Plus, John didn't say things were going sideways or dead stopped, John said all was going well and continued to collect more money from AIW people when he knew there was zero chance of making that pin. ZERO chance I repeat, if he knew MG and RAZA Were both dead in the water, he darn well knew any pin after that was less than zero.

We can say all we want about red flags, but when people like PDXmonkey said the games were nearly complete 7 months ago and John saying he was well along the way to complete, the burden being a decent human falls on John. At any point in the past 12-14 months if John was collecting more money it was pure fraud.

#14467 4 years ago

I feel bad for all who may lose money, sure most people here do, but John can't even open his trap to apologize, he sends out that letter saying good news we've found a way forward for MG, no remorse or sorry guys I messed up. No remorse that people who wanted AIW or RAZA are being up charged to a game they didn't even want.

I know us Monday morning QBs can point to the red flags (especially when we were in on the secret blog and had been communicating with John so he knew he was full of shit). But new guys who picked up on this last year for AIW may not have seen the red flags because John wasn't letting on that making pinball machines is hard and he was dead stopped on his other two pins.

For real, the main reason John was selling AIW was to take that money to try to complete MG, maybe keep the lights on a bit longer and maybe say he had a bigger portfolio of games in case anyone wanted to buy him out, he had no way of making AIW with MG and RAZA at maybe 25% complete.

15
#14468 4 years ago

You can make a lot of arguments about his intentions but in the end taking money for AIW was pure theft.

#14469 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

We can say all we want about red flags, but when people like PDXmonkey said the games were nearly complete 7 months ago and John saying he was well along the way to complete, the burden being a decent human falls on John. At any point in the past 12-14 months if John was collecting more money it was pure fraud.

More of us, including myself, should have gotten all over John about two years ago when things started to not make sense to me, but, others having seen the games and the "near completion" comments bought him more time. Nothing would have changed, just brought this to a head sooner.

The buying him of "more time" simply allowed him to raise more money in what I consider a fraudulent manner. However, I think John is going to skate from that claim in the courts. It's going to be really hard to prove, unless some of the plaintiffs have a lawyer that will spend a ton of $$$ to take dozens of depositions and countless hours at trial to prove this point.

What's the end game if you win? I hope the litigators are successful and can get anything they can out of this mess.

On to my next pre order, Alien and Andrew with Heighway, at least Full Throttle is to begin shipping next week and an Alien prototype will be at August UK show, at least that is the plan.

Spooky is announcing their next pin this weekend. I'm in, if it is what I think it is.

At least with all that has happened, its eyes wide open time now and maybe like the old saying, "what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger", hopefully that will be the case!

16
#14470 4 years ago

^this

And I'm still waiting to hear form PDXmonkey why he was leading us on 7 months ago. He has as much explaining to to as anybody. I understand guys like Cointaker and others maybe wanting to keep things on the down low, not wanting to submarine John, but PDXmonkey flat out lied his ass off saying the games were mostly complete 7 months ago.

-3
#14471 4 years ago


A little humour so everyone can decompress a little.

13
#14472 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

^this
And I'm still waiting to hear form PDXmonkey why he was leading us on 7 months ago. He has as much explaining to to as anybody. I understand guys like Cointaker and others maybe wanting to keep things on the down low, not wanting to submarine John, but PDXmonkey flat out lied his ass off saying the games were mostly complete 7 months ago.

Good luck with that.

Pinside is a forgetful group..... "Hey pdxmoney spent HOURS trying to glue the ramps in, what kind of an ungrateful cretin are you for trying to square his previous comments (misrepresentations at least....at worst??? )..... It's all about the ramps now man, the RAMPs! You obviously don't love pinball"

Btw- the same criticisms were initially shouted down across town in the Predator thread when people wanted to call out Aaron and Paul (virtuapin) and Spfxted for their part in propagating the lies.... "stop critiquing beloved pinsiders- or You Don't Love Pinball!!"

11
#14473 4 years ago

PDX, Kim and StevenP were lied to by John like everyone else. John hung themout to dry by never revealing what they had seen. This video is from applejuice and was taken in March, 2014. Without the art Mylar messing up the ball and with a pretty solid software set, this prototype is what PDX and StevenP were referring to when they said they had played a flipping machine that was pretty far along. For reasons that aren't clear to me, the game at the show didn't have this version of the code on it. I understand and share in your anger, but I don't think it is fair to say PDX was leading people on or to imply that he was some kind of co-conspirator with John.

#14474 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

I find it concerning the way some people are ejected for name calling yet many are given a pass.

Agree. Also I think "thread eject" should be renamed to "thread time-out"

#14475 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

^this
And I'm still waiting to hear form PDXmonkey why he was leading us on 7 months ago. He has as much explaining to to as anybody. I understand guys like Cointaker and others maybe wanting to keep things on the down low, not wanting to submarine John, but PDXmonkey flat out lied his ass off saying the games were mostly complete 7 months ago.

rai...with all due respect, I have to disagree with you on this. PDXMonkey is in on two of JPop's games and wanted/wants to see these games made. He's a great dude and well respected in the community. When you look at how fast they were able to get that game flippable, (although barely) you can see how Monkey could have believed JPop when he mentions 7 months. JPop was the master illusionist. I could easily see how even someone like Monkey, could be convinced that the game could be complete or near complete in that time frame.

#14476 4 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

rai...with all due respect, I have to disagree with you on this. PDXMonkey is in on two of JPop's games and wanted/wants to see these games made. He's a great dude and well respected in the community. When you look at how fast they were able to get that game flippable, (although barely) you can see how Monkey could have believed JPop when he mentions 7 months. JPop was the master illusionist. I could easily see how even someone like Monkey, could be convinced that the game could be complete or near complete in that time frame.

PDXMonkey didn't say anything about "seven months." He made a statement about games being nearly complete 7 months ago.

#14477 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Yes I am. Its human to make mistakes and we are all human.
Like the mistake you made in not understanding that point.

I understood your point.

I don't think you understood what others have been saying, over and over.

You think anybody could have fallen into the JPop trap and therefore we all need to cut you some slack?

Unfortunately, it's not true. I'm not trying to be arrogant, honestly. This is the denial many of you guys are still in.

The fact is, the problems with the JPop deal that you have now come to realize were there from the very moment of the deal.

He NEVER had the capacity to produce those machines.. not since day one.

Most of the community here realized it, but you all didn't want to listen to your peers, friends and fellow enthusiasts, so y'all shut yourself off in a private sphere told yourself how awesome this was going to be.

Your mistake wasn't so much giving a bunch of money to JPop, it was not listening to the community. And you still don't want to listen to the community. You still cluster in little circles telling yourselves this thing can happen if you give Pintasia a chance. The new guy is not in any better a position than JPop was, and you don't want to hear it. You think you're frustrated? Imagine how the rest of us feel watching some of you guys run around in the same circle over and over?

#14478 4 years ago

PDXMonkey has more credibility and respect from me than all of you sideline standing guttersnipes put together. He has gone above and beyond in his efforts to salvage this project for everyone. Things even the owners group on Facebook are unaware of.

I'm not going into detail but he has found out the hard way about trusting someone he thought was his friend.

And someone else posted a long detailed review many months ago in this thread about playing Magic Girl. I may be able to find it but I'm not going to spend all day.

I am proud to say that PDXMonkey is my friend. A new friend that I have gotten to know very well through out this ordeal.

#14479 4 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

People seem either very forgiving, very forgetful, or very unknowledgable about this to not understand the extent of JPOP's failure. Any one of us if given 4 years and one million dollars could have come up with a flipping prototype, probably several.
The games might have been crap, they might have been great, but at least the prototypes would have been built.

Just look at the P-roc booth at expo the last two years, Wooly, Deadpin, the Kuglers were all built for a few thousand dollars, nights and weekends, and in a year or so. Buffy and Matrix, while re-themes, were totally new rule sets, art, etc. and also done in a relatively shot period of time. These games all have nice shots, flow and rule sets. I'm not saying they were all 100% complete, but far more complete then what we have seen from Jpop, including what was just seen.

TBL went from announcement to a flipping prototype (albeit with only 2% of the rules), in well under year. Only one guy at DP even knew they were going to do it, when it was announced at expo 2013, and there it was at expo 2014 flippable (oh, but the air vents were not painted -- so we need to hold that against them).

None of these folks had any experience in making pinball machines.

#14480 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

He NEVER had the capacity to produce those machines.. not since day one.

If by capacity you mean business acumen, then I would agree. Otherwise, he had all of the resources available to him to get the job done.

#14481 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

He NEVER had the capacity to produce those machines.. not since day one.
Most of the community here realized it, but you all didn't want to listen to your peers, friends and fellow enthusiasts, so y'all shut yourself off in a private sphere told yourself how awesome this was going to be.

So you're telling me that I was warned and had all of this present day information four years ago. And I'm so stupid that I went ahead anyway. What a complete crock of shit.

Yours is delusional thinking using the benefit of hindsight.

16
#14482 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

So you're telling me that I was warned and had all of this present day information four years ago. And I'm so stupid that I went ahead anyway. What a complete crock of shit.
Yours is delusional thinking using the benefit of hindsight.

I remember reading on Pinside 2 years ago that people never believed he'd finish a single machine. I figured it out about the time he told Ben to flake off....

#14483 4 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

rai...with all due respect, I have to disagree with you on this. PDXMonkey is in on two of JPop's games and wanted/wants to see these games made. He's a great dude and well respected in the community. When you look at how fast they were able to get that game flippable, (although barely) you can see how Monkey could have believed JPop when he mentions 7 months. JPop was the master illusionist. I could easily see how even someone like Monkey, could be convinced that the game could be complete or near complete in that time frame.

Quoted from Mr68:

PDXMonkey has more credibility and respect from me than all of you sideline standing guttersnipes put together. He has gone above and beyond in his efforts to salvage this project for everyone. Things even the owners group on Facebook are unaware of.
I'm not going into detail but he has found out the hard way about trusting someone he thought was his friend.
And someone else posted a long detailed review many months ago in this thread about playing Magic Girl. I may be able to find it but I'm not going to spend all day.
I am proud to say that PDXMonkey is my friend. A new friend that I have gotten to know very well through out this ordeal.

I take it back, I don't know who knew what, or when. So it's possible that John had various mock up pins to play at his workshop. Likely he put on a good show at the workshop tour, this is what I told John before, if the workshop tour is so great, why can't he videotape some gameplay etc.. So all the owners could see.

In the end, my doubting anything I can't see of feel for myself was what led me to be out, John talked a good game but I need to see with my own eyes or I don't believe.

Also, judging from the videos it probably was a whitewood game that was being shown and not the prototype we saw at the NW show.

I apologize to any people I may have offended, the man who deserves full credit for this failure is John.

#14484 4 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

I remember reading on Pinside 2 years ago that people never believed he'd finish a single machine. I figured it out about the time he told Ben to flake off....

Ben leaving was huge.

15
#14485 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

PDX, Kim and StevenP were lied to by John like everyone else.

Totally agree, there was a whole lot of excitement still leading right up to Expo guys. That's when the back end blew out of Jpop's behind.

TBL and the "Lebowski effect".

The one thing about John, and why I'll never fault anyone that came into contact with him for "believing". He is a slick Willie M Fer.

It's really something else. It takes a unique shameless individual to be able to lie to your face and paint such a rosy picture at the same time in the face of total impending doom. A true shameless politician from my viewpoint in talking to him.

I think Kim would echo the same thing, he flew out there and confronted him and John just simply is a master BS artist and deflector.

You take him lightly by the way he looks, but in this case, looks are VERY deceiving!

#14486 4 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

I remember reading on Pinside 2 years ago that people never believed he'd finish a single machine. I figured it out about the time he told Ben to flake off....

Yes, but not everyone was even convinced at that major turning point....

There's been a consistent theme of shouting-down and naysayers, logic bedamned;

Screen Shot 2015-06-10 at 11.25.22 AM.png

#14487 4 years ago

There's never anything to be gained by saying "I told you so". In the corporate world, it can even be a career-limiting move (don't ask how I know). It's better to look forward and try to make the situation better.

#14488 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

He NEVER had the capacity to produce those machines.. not since day one.
Most of the community here realized it, but you all didn't want to listen to your peers, friends and fellow enthusiasts, so y'all shut yourself off in a private sphere told yourself how awesome this was going to be.

It's easy to say that now, given what we know.

It's not just us consumers, think about all the vendors like GLM, Cointaker, Yeti, Applesauce, etc. etc. that actually had to think that something could be accomplished.

These guys are out varying degrees of $$$.

Given what we know now, everybody was stupid.

To say it wasn't possible is BS! Look at Spooky and Heighway, the mistake that was made was that we all kissed his ass for WAY too long.

#14489 4 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

I remember reading on Pinside 2 years ago that people never believed he'd finish a single machine. I figured it out about the time he told Ben to flake off....

My last payment was sent July 2013. Most of us were in 3-4 years ago. I would agree around 2 years things were starting to look not-so-good, from lack of progress and deadlines being officially missed. But most of us were in far before that, and at that point you're just hoping for the best.

#14490 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Yes, but not everyone was even convinced at that major turning point....
There's been a consistent theme of shouting-down and naysayers, logic bedamned;
Screen Shot 2015-06-10 at 11.25.22 AM.png

I didn't want Ben Heck's ugly mug on the artwork, I didn't even know who he was back then.

In hindsight, Ben is one of the smartest and most level headed pinball guys in a sea of dummies.

#14491 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

So you're telling me that I was warned and had all of this present day information four years ago. And I'm so stupid that I went ahead anyway. What a complete crock of shit.
Yours is delusional thinking using the benefit of hindsight.

Go back and look at the posts.

Where was JPop's manufacturing facility? Where was an assembled committed team? It was never there in the beginning unlike JJP. What resources did he have other than the pre-order money to get anything done? Why did the whole thing have to be done in secret? I posted numerous messages many years ago questioning the rationality of pre-ordering and you all screamed at me

Do you think for a minute, if his operation was not confined to the dark shadows of private groups, among people who were legally-obligated to not say anything, that the end result would have been the same?

And you call me delusional?

You guys are still stroking each other. PDX, your buddy, has been lying to everybody about how far along the game has been, and you're still in denial.

I recognize futility when I see it. I apologize for thinking even after all you've been through, you might be willing to pay a little more attention, but I was wrong. I won't waste any more time trying to be the voice of reason here. I can tell it's clearly not appreciated.

But hey, if you really want to show me up, then go all in dude. All the "owners" take out all their life savings and give it to Bill, and sign that document that says you can't sue him. I'm sure that'll work out wonderfully, and I'm totally wrong and delusional.

#14492 4 years ago

Maybe we should crucify Ben now. Hey Ben why didn't you warn everybody back then? JK

John had me defending RAZA at one point, and I got after Charlie and Spooky one day for floating out his "zombies" game and competing against him.

If you recall, John was pissed at Ben and Charlie then. That started the bridge burning process that continued for years.

Fast forward, not knowing who Charlie was then, look what they accomplished with Ben.

Now I'm buying their next pin that is going to be announced in a few days!

It's all good, time to move on. Rock and Roll

#14493 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

My last payment was sent July 2013. Most of us were in 3-4 years ago. I would agree around 2 years things were starting to look not-so-good, from lack of progress and deadlines being officially missed. But most of us were in far before that, and at that point you're just hoping for the best.

Me too Frolic, I put a total of $3k into Raza and $1500 into AIW. With that last payment at least two years ago.

#14494 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

And you call me delusional?

Yes.

Quoted from PinballHelp:

I won't waste any more time trying to be the voice of reason here.

Thank you.

#14495 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

Go back and look at the posts.
Where was JPop's manufacturing facility? Where was an assembled committed team? It was never there in the beginning unlike JJP. What resources did he have other than the pre-order money to get anything done? Why did the whole thing have to be done in secret?
Do you think for a minute, if his operation was not confined to the dark shadows of private groups, among people who were legally-obligated to not say anything, that the end result would have been the same?
And you call me delusional?

A quick story...

When I bought my first machine I found RGP and it was an excellent source for repair tips, along with the community guide that clay maintained. Gene Cunningham offered a pre-order for BBB. I had no real idea who Gene was so I read RGP posts and asked a few local pinheads what they thought. "When pigs fly!" Remember that? A local guy here who is pretty cool, and smart, said there's no way Gene could pull it off citing a number of great reasons, no manufacturing experience, facility, some of the same stuff people here are saying. Well, history showed BBB was remade and only because a few great pinheads helped make it happen but it was done none the less.

Now, I don't do preorders. I got into MMR and it reminded me why I don't. I want to be able to try then immediately buy something so it's not for me. So, while I don't preorder, mainly because it's a huge gamble, many people do and have been rewarded. Some burned. So don't give anyone too hard of a time that they gambled and lost. This guy was a REAL pinball designer and they didn't figure out what a flake he was until it was too late.

#14496 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

John had me defending RAZA at one point, and I got after Charlie and Spooky one day for floating out his "zombies" game and competing against him.

If you recall, John was pissed at Ben and Charlie then. That started the bridge burning process that continued for years.

I remember thinking the same thing.... John got "screwed" by his friends. It gave me a negative impression early on of Spooky. All I knew was John's psycho version of things.

11
#14497 4 years ago

I think part of BBB's legacy is that it did give clout and confidence to other troubled projects, like Predator and this one. "par for the course" "we all went through this with BBB but it got done".

#14498 4 years ago

I don't think the finger pointing is really doing much but making people feel better. That said, PDXMonkey is pretty quiet now.

Anyway, I want to hear about next steps. What's the plan now? Is Pintasia still going to try and get MG made? Some actual news would be nice.

14
#14499 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

Well, history showed BBB was remade and only because a few great pinheads helped make it happen but it was done none the less.

BBB is not a good example. First, Gene Cunningham is now bankrupt and has lost everything. The guy who made that machine is not in a better place because of it, and even after, he was still hated by a big segment of the community. No good deed goes unpunished around here.

Second, BBB was a fully-completed game, there were 10 completely-finished versions of the game in existence. The software and everything was done. Gene had the MPU boards already done and a good bit of the parts. Gene was also rich and threw a ton of money into it, and it still took years, and almost ruined him in the process.

You can't compare JPop to Illinois Pinball. Gene was an entrepreneur and had a lot more experience. JPop is just an artist/designer who never really achieved anything of significance (as far as I know) outside of being part of a large team of people. There wasn't any evidence he knew how to run a large scale business. There wasn't any evidence he had any of his own money he was willing to put into the venture.

That being said, even though Gene's had more experience, more money, and his project was better-conceived, more practical and further along, it still took him many years to deliver the games to customers. And in the end he still went bankrupt. Yet people think a guy with only a fraction of the resources can do the same?

What gets me is people like Mr68 want to call me "delusional" because I'm bringing this up? I haven't called anybody names.

I haven't referred to JPop as "Jpoop" or called the owners "stupid." I've simply suggested, it's worthwhile to field opinions from everybody, and considering how wrong the owners were in their decisions, it might be prudent to give credibility to the people who saw this debacle for what it was. And for saying that, I'm called "delusional?" If that isn't irony, I don't know what is.

#14500 4 years ago

Well Spooky did make a pin with no experience and not a big JJPN/Stern type of factory. So it is possible. I believe Wooly to be possible also.

The point is, John was able to sell the pins on a theme and a few schetches and a made up timeline. Going forward people are going to demand proof of life before they pre-order.

John could have 'technically' made some MG or RAZA pins that were on par with Stern and probably with way less mechanisms and people might not have been over the moon happy but he would have at least fufulled his contract.

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