(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 24,288 posts
  • 915 Pinsiders participating
  • Topic is favorited by 168 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 1,694 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

bdabce9707bfa3eff92d0142c16fcb601c1ef058 (resized).jpeg
Deeproot_attire (resized).jpg
winds (resized).jpg
RAZA (resized).jpg
download (resized).jpeg
2g5x1v (resized).jpg
IMG_20161013_200354 (resized).jpg
hansonbrothers01 (resized).jpg
A33B8CA7-AD75-4E38-A815-1767E3A91C7A (resized).jpeg
D826C035-3CEF-4ADA-B80C-E04EE4B8BE8B (resized).jpeg
throwing-tomatoes-gif-1.gif
jpop sitting (resized).jpg
9E0B162E-329F-4B2E-9AB7-0FC857A196AB (resized).jpeg
expo (resized).png
B3F72CE8-1FCA-4E93-9994-CCC068D8F4C2 (resized).jpeg
7A86BB52-E1F5-4086-955C-86A6383C27D3 (resized).png

Topic index (key posts)

21 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 24288 posts in this topic. You are on page 286 of 486.
19
#14251 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

So you will get a game, at the price you agreed to up front - where's the fraud and damages I should award you from the defendant?

Except they aren't getting a game. Have you looked at the math of how many would have to sell to first recoup the Pintasia investment, then make the original owners whole?

Just to be explicitly clear, I think what Pintasia and the volunteers are trying to do is very noble. Will it work? Not a chance in hell. Sorry, but that's the way I see it.

#14252 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

Okay, I did.
As for why I'm asking, I'm not sure why I have to justify questions about pinball on a pinball forum, but fwiw, it's not to see the project fail. If you can point me to a question of mine that is "unfair" in this sense, by all means, and if you're right, I'll apologize. I'm not immune to being too persistent occasionally.
But I don't think that's what it is, at least not mostly. I think my questions are fair but simply bring up inconvenient truths which some would rather just put out of their mind.

Its good to ask questions, but you may get wrong or incomplete answers unless you ask the source - that is my point - I think the questions are good ones, and deserve solid answers - whether $ invested or not. Some here may be willing to buy a new order, if the game is the right price and can be shown to be actually done and in a box ready for delivery.

10
#14253 4 years ago

There are a lot of reasons some advocate bankruptcy including fair market valuation of the assets, distribution of proceeds from the sale of the assets to vendors and people who paid in, transparency of the financials, potential to pierce the corporate veil, etc. One, that I haven't seen (but may have missed) is the ability to separate the assets, including IP. While a judge may prefer fewer transactions, it could well be that the value of the IP is maximized by breaking it up. An established manufacturer may have no interest in MG, but thinks AIW is a marketable concept and, given the apparent lack of customization, could be brought to market in a cost effective manner. So they are willing to purchase AIW assets while Bill can scoop up and go crazy with MG.

#14254 4 years ago
Quoted from brent149:

Wow, according to that letter if you bought either of the other two machines you're really getting burned.

Bill said the Pintasia letter, supercedes John's letter.

#14255 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

I'm still trying to understand why the effort is "finish MG at any cost"? Is it simply because it was assumed to be the closest to completion?
If it's indeed the game with the LEAST number of people "invested"- why not survey the group and determine if it's even worth throwing more time and money at?
Obviously MG isn't "shovel ready", so if it's going to take a major redesign, perhaps it's actually NOT the best machine to build? I mean, once you look past the nice artwork, the game seemed unremarkable.
Are RAZA and/or AIW even on the radar for prototypes?

RAZA has a playfield, partially populated prototype, and I think a simpler game mechanically and custom mechs.

#14256 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Bill said the Pintasia letter, supercedes John's letter.

He can say whatever he wants. Reality is right now only Zidware is on the hook for any legal obligations and contract with those that paid deposits.

I could come in right now and claim I purchased the IP and am superceeding all other letters. It would be equally as laughable as the current situation.

Quoted from Oldgoat:

it could well be that the value of the IP is maximized by breaking it up

a VERY good point and likely true.

#14257 4 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

This thing that surprises me most is how much is still incomplete on the playfield, compared to what i had on my prototype over a year previously. Also some of the comments made about magnets not being coded are just plain wrong. You can see clearly that switches are missing from various places including the ramps, and also some of the actual magnets are not even installed. Also, the main arcade mode seem to be left set at 1 ball per game, even though this was easily adjustable and the Ball search feature is included in the framework, but not configured for development, as it confuses things when testing rules and proper mech operation.
Even though i am owed a 5 figure sum from popaduik i still offered to answer questions or give advice on technical items, service mode settings, code etc for the guys there during the weekend to help smooth out the demos as best i could. I did not get a single question....
Looking at one of the videos posted you can see that when the door opens the poor game is trying to tell you to check a bunch of switches including the ramp entry and exits. Someone even says 'i guess we have to just wait for these messages to go by'
Anyway, back to work for me, i've got a shed load of money to make up for....

Last monday, we indeed skipped putting switches on ramps, we didn't do the tiger saw mechs for the software, there was no time left to put the switches and magnets on the ramps, literally - I did the metal plate connecting the ramps, we did the drill press on the holes in the steel and I matched the two semi-circles as best we could to avoid ball traps - you'll notice in the pics that the lip of both ramps and the inside walls of the ramp were not perfectly aligned. The 1 ball setting was to keep the queue moving at at show - JJP does the same thing.

So some error messages will be easy to attach switches, others like the magnet popper/repeller and the magna flippers in the mini PF will still need the proto mech completed and tested. So the code is there - but some simple stuff isn't / wasn't simply b/c the game had to go to Tacoma, in the morning, and we quit at 230am Wed, pdx went and switched vans (b/c of the long drive and mileage limits) after 230am and the game left with him at 9am.

#14258 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

.

In working on the game, and talking to John and seeing the cad drawings, I think much of the $ went to design for boards, custom lights (yes, even the lights were custom boards w/LED chips). Lots of $ spent on custom light design, boards, art and coders (I presume Applejuice got paid up until he said earlier, late 2014 I believe?) so vendors paid at least 2011-2014. The apron is custom stainless, the side rails are stainless (vs. stern black wood rails), custom boards for lights, custom boards for cpu, drivers, transformer was custom, cabinets and BB is custom (and patents?), BG is custom with inserted speakers (no speaker panel in back), custom scoop, custom subway.
Anyway, change all those to standard, and BoM goes down dramatically. Leave the 19 with all stainless, lightening bolts everywhere, etc. and then "regular run" of MG up to 199 with standard apron, rails, lighting etc. Most of the deposit money was spent on sunk, fixed costs for design, not the variable cost of each machines BoM. I think Bill can make the numbers work for both versions.
For RAZA, the BoM could be even cheaper b/c its a larger run, standard (mostly) parts, and could be much less cost / machine.

It is going to take 2-4 years to go from having a pre-alpha prototype to manufacturing and shipping games. You can strip it down to a bare bones stern pro model to get the BOM to a number you like, but add on top of that the cost of development and manufacturing projected for years into the future and you are still talking big numbers on top of the BOM. And like I said originally, a low quality product for people's 10k.

#14259 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Last monday, we indeed skipped putting switches on ramps, we didn't do the tiger saw mechs for the software, there was no time left to put the switches and magnets on the ramps, literally - I did the metal plate connecting the ramps, we did the drill press on the holes in the steel and I matched the two semi-circles as best we could to avoid ball traps - you'll notice in the pics that the lip of both ramps and the inside walls of the ramp were not perfectly aligned. The 1 ball setting was to keep the queue moving at at show - JJP does the same thing.
So some error messages will be easy to attach switches, others like the magnet popper/repeller and the magna flippers in the mini PF will still need the proto mech completed and tested. So the code is there - but some simple stuff isn't / wasn't simply b/c the game had to go to Tacoma, in the morning, and we quit at 230am Wed, pdx went and switched vans (b/c of the long drive and mileage limits) after 230am and the game left with him at 9am.

I guess this kind of explains why there are so many unused plugs on this thing! I am still curious as to what all these could be for and what is missing from the game still. Seems like a lot.

MGunusedplugs.jpg

#14260 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Bill said the Pintasia letter, supercedes John's letter.

As a victim I have only received the first letter, officially. its really up to the courts now "which letter" is official, not Anyone else, if they even care about it at all. That's according to the lawyers, not me. It may be that the letters are just more smoke screen from John Popadiuk anyway. The only way to know is to bring legal action and force disclosure that way. He will never reveal what he has otherwise.

Ps-after checking again - the first letter is the only offer on the table from Zidware. There has been no second offer or counteroffer , legally. There have been rumors, suggestions, but nothing official from Zidware except letter #1. (It could be that the rumored offer is only to certain people and not to all victims. I mean he could have made the rumored second offer to everyone but me.)

#14261 4 years ago

1st letter received May 22.

I received 2nd letter May 23.

Funny that they are only 1 day apart. The first one was received early AM, the second one late PM, so almost 2 days apart, but boy that seemed like forever at the time. Those were some crazy couple of days.

#14262 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

There have been rumors, suggestions, but nothing official from Zidware except letter #1. (It could be that the rumored offer is only to certain people and not to all victims. I mean he could have made the rumored second offer to everyone but me.)

Can you elaborate on these rumors? No additional offers have been made to me either.

14
#14263 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Last monday, we indeed skipped putting switches on ramps, we didn't do the tiger saw mechs for the software, there was no time left to put the switches and magnets on the ramps, literally - I did the metal plate connecting the ramps, we did the drill press on the holes in the steel and I matched the two semi-circles as best we could to avoid ball traps - you'll notice in the pics that the lip of both ramps and the inside walls of the ramp were not perfectly aligned. The 1 ball setting was to keep the queue moving at at show - JJP does the same thing.
So some error messages will be easy to attach switches, others like the magnet popper/repeller and the magna flippers in the mini PF will still need the proto mech completed and tested. So the code is there - but some simple stuff isn't / wasn't simply b/c the game had to go to Tacoma, in the morning, and we quit at 230am Wed, pdx went and switched vans (b/c of the long drive and mileage limits) after 230am and the game left with him at 9am.

Look, I get that you were pressed for time so the switches didn't go in, but the point is that John wasn't pressed for time prior to this. Worse, Jim is owed some 5-figure sum and in this opportunity for him to at least get some possible free press or future business, people see of his code in a situation in which it cannot be it's best.

To Markmon's prior comment about (paraphrasing) "ball search being easy to code" and "magnets being hard to code" --that's totally backwards. Moreover acceleration and hold magnets are literally impossible to code for when many physical switches aren't in place.

I get that you did a lot for the machine to get it to the show, and I don't think there's any sane person who doesn't appreciate that, but you need to stop responding like the machine was built in three days and that there was only three days in which to build it, especially when responding to people who had either worked on it or invested in it literally /years/ ago. OMG, yes, a /million/ times better that the machine made it to the show in any form. Yes, I get that it was incomplete for any number of reasons, but you cannot reasonably expect people to not voice their displeasure at that situation.

If Jim says he had a prototype almost a year ago and asked for those switches to be installed a year ago, what really kept someone over in that palatial zidware facility from making that happen? Perhaps it points to the idea that the end game was a buy out and for someone else to just "finish it up" --not necessarily out of malice or greed-- but whatever the reason, clearly functional details like these weren't a high priority for some reason or another.

This whole situation is sad.

#14264 4 years ago

Several people have received a second offer. I can't elaborate because I did not get it either

Assuming there has been another offer - one can see why it would be frustrating to hear about it and then not get it yourself. Some people might sue over that. Just another example of how incompetently this has all been handled. Can't even track down all the victims to make offers. Talk about shooting yourself.

#14265 4 years ago
Quoted from APB_Enterprises:

I can tell you first hand that the most complete machine was the one that went to the NW show.
John (PDX Monkey) only loaded the one machine in his rental, and no extra parts.
Andrew

Thanks for the update.

#14266 4 years ago

double post // sorry

#14267 4 years ago

I think John's letter is quite embarrassing to say the least.

I think, if there is a push to make MG at all, the focus is (should be) to get the price down to a *sane level*. By this I mean no more than $8500 (ish) maybe $9500. I see no reason for 5-figure price tag on this pin. Combined with the likely fact that there was too much nonsense to begin with (overload of mechanisms and needless complexity), likely this game (if it's ever made) will have to be stripped down to Stern LE or JJP LE prices. At which point, it's just another game, I mean it has to compete with the next 5 Stern LE games that will be built in the next 2+ years, the next PPS game if there is one, and the next JJP (as well as The Hobbit).

It would be hard for me to see MG being better than most of those games: 5 Stern games, 1-2 JJP games and one PPS (potentially) as well as the next Spooky and the two Heighway games and (potentially) TBL. That's like 10+ games all of which have much more chance of being built (let's face it, there are long odds, of ever seeing MG made). And if/when it is made it will cost more than those 10+ games (all I've seen from John or the new company is talk of $10K+). While PPS can roll out CCC or MB or AFM, Stern can roll out extremely desirable pins, and JJP has an all star designer on deck and The Hobbit that is light years closer to production than any Zidware game.

So the sales pitch for MG is to wait 2+ years (could be as much as 4 years according to John) and maybe get a MG that may or may not be good, may have to be completely top down overhauled to even be possible.

I don't know about you all, but the main features people liked about MG were its designer (now radioactive) it's toys/features which don't work or don't exist take your pick, and may need to be removed if it's ever to be produced at an economical level and it's super low limited (ultra rare) status 13 or 26 pins (which is now null and void).

From John's letter:

2) Agreement that you will not bring any action for money damages or specific performance against Zidware, the Licensee, the manufacturer, or any of their directors, officers or members during the earlier of: delivery of the product or 4 years.

^ I agree with Rob, John didn't write this letter, he's bearly literate in his communications, I doubt he could come up with the legalese in that letter on his own.

#14268 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Last monday, we indeed skipped putting switches on ramps, we didn't do the tiger saw mechs for the software, there was no time left to put the switches and magnets on the ramps, literally - I did the metal plate connecting the ramps, we did the drill press on the holes in the steel and I matched the two semi-circles as best we could to avoid ball traps - you'll notice in the pics that the lip of both ramps and the inside walls of the ramp were not perfectly aligned. The 1 ball setting was to keep the queue moving at at show - JJP does the same thing.
So some error messages will be easy to attach switches, others like the magnet popper/repeller and the magna flippers in the mini PF will still need the proto mech completed and tested. So the code is there - but some simple stuff isn't / wasn't simply b/c the game had to go to Tacoma, in the morning, and we quit at 230am Wed, pdx went and switched vans (b/c of the long drive and mileage limits) after 230am and the game left with him at 9am.

The only reason to have a game set to 1 ball is because not enough things are complete to show a customer anything. If the game is nearly complete you want potential customers playing longer balls and seeing different modes and multi balls. Plus the people behind them in line get to see more modes as they are waiting and watching. What good does flipping a few times and draining do? JJP might have done this on a few early proto demo's but at every show I have ever been to WOZ and now TH have been on 3 ball.

-1
#14269 4 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

Look, I get that you were pressed for time so the switches didn't go in, but the point is that John wasn't pressed for time prior to this. Worse, Jim is owed some 5-figure sum and in this opportunity for him to at least get some possible free press or future business, people see of his code in a situation in which it cannot be it's best.
To PDXMonkey's prior comment about (paraphrasing) "ball search being easy to code" and "magnets being hard to code" --that's totally backwards. Moreover acceleration and hold magnets are literally impossible to code for when many physical switches aren't in place.
I get that you did a lot for the machine to get it to the show, and I don't think there's any sane person who doesn't appreciate that, but you need to stop responding like the machine was built in three days and that there was only three days in which to build it, especially when responding to people who had either worked on it or invested in it literally /years/ ago. OMG, yes, a /million/ times better that the machine made it to the show in any form. Yes, I get that it was incomplete for any number of reasons, but you cannot reasonably expect people to not voice their displeasure at that situation.
If Jim says he had a prototype almost a year ago and asked for those switches to be installed a year ago, what really kept someone over in that palatial zidware facility from making that happen? Perhaps it points to the idea that the end game was a buy out and for someone else to just "finish it up" --not necessarily out of malice or greed-- but whatever the reason, clearly functional details like these weren't a high priority for some reason or another.
This whole situation is sad.

I never said that.
That was Markmon

#14270 4 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

Ball search feature is included in the framework, but not configured for development, as it confuses things when testing rules and proper mech operation.

I always disable it as well when doing development, really annoying to be working on the game testing stuff and suddenly it goes into ball search. I also found I need to turn off 'quick ball save' to avoid confusion. Was working on the lane lamps/handler and would hit the right outline switch to complete the lamp and a another ball would get throw into play. Since I was doing that pretty much at start of ball for testing, I kept thinking there was a trough code issue with that second ball was being put into play. Was relieved when I finally realized it was the ball save.

Of course you do then have to remember to re-enable things like this -- which obviously was not done in this case.

#14271 4 years ago

Pdxmonkey - besides Bill, are you basically the "project manager" at this point doing most of the work? Who exactly is working on what and making decisions about the game features?

#14272 4 years ago
Quoted from Shorty:

Pdxmonkey - besides Bill, are you basically the "project manager" at this point doing most of the work? Who exactly is working on what and making decisions about the game features?

Who is the volunteer that has the prototype at their house?

Edit: Where are all 3 prototypes?

33
#14273 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

... we didn't do the tiger saw mechs for the software ...

Its "Lion Saw" not "Tiger Saw". You don't want people to think John is so lame that his vision of the future of pinball is just a rehash of his 20 year old ideas, do you? I understand, it is Magic and Theatrics, again so there is only so before it overlaps, but come on.

I know the moderators don't want a bunch of threads started, but I'd like to see a comparison of what is reused from game to game. Everyone has been saying Magic Girl for so long they are hypnotized into thinking even if John had made this game is it really that dazzling?

Lion Saw not Tiger Saw
Big Rabbits on the slingshots not little rabbits on the sling shots
a picture of a magic cube on a table on the playfield not an actual functioning magic cube
Magic Spot not Spirit Ring
An Up Post between the flippers labeled Theater Of Magic Post not a Theater of Magic without an up post (huh whaa)
Hocus Pokus on the topper not as a Hokus Pokus target bank
Even the Drama Masks made a reappearance

Any ideas he needed from CV? Let see -
Looks like CV color scheme
Bagattel on the back box not just a bell
Display mounted in back of playfield not on backbox

Also paying tribute to TOTAN a picture of a Genie Lamp I'm sure there is more but I did not look at the game too close.

And I guess Capcom had some magic he wanted since Pinball Magic has a levitating ball and MG "tried" to have one.

Anything else I'm missing? Is that a 3 slot skill shot he already used a couple of times?

Jpop is an Illusionist alright. But the tricks are stale. He is spending his life with the same picture stuck in his head and trying over and over to make it work. Sorry, I have a ToM and TOTAN and they are similar enough so it looks like I bought his ideas years ago and for a lot less than $16K. Who does this guy think he is.

I'm sure its not as simple as this. Flame me if you want. Back to the usual 14K+ posts.

#14274 4 years ago
Quoted from Lauro0521:

I don't feel like reading all this but what's all about ? Sorry newbie and lazy lol

Dey rapin everybody up in here.

#14275 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

I never said that.
That was Markmon

Corrected the post. Entirely my mistake. Sorry!!

#14276 4 years ago

Either a new Facebook page that is even more secret than the original one has been formed and all discussion is taking place there , or most everyone gave up. I strongly suspect the discussion has been moved to the more secret FB group. So there is literally no space where positive discussion about this project is going on, unless the more secret page is where it is all happening. The silence is deafening. It's like once the proto made it to the show-radio silence was implemented.

#14277 4 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

Also paying tribute to TOTAN a picture of a Genie Lamp I'm sure there is more but I did not look at the game too close.

Left side has the same spinning lamp mech as TOTAN.

#14278 4 years ago

Right now we are in a wait and see on Pintasia. And for me personally, I'm burned out and I have my real life to attend to.
There is no secondary group, Rommy.

10
#14279 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

It's like once the proto made it to the show-radio silence was implemented.

There is really only two things we can do at this point:
1. Wait for more news.
2. Argue, ad nauseum, with the "Piss in your Cheerios" types.

I've chosen 1, like many people.

#14280 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Left side has the same spinning lamp mech as TOTAN.

I'm still scratching my head over this one... Why he decided to block off the left orbit and the only ramp in the game with this feature makes no sense. The game has less flow than POTC. Even if all the magnets and features were working I don't see anything in the Magic Girl layout that makes it better than the layouts on CV, WCS, TOTAN or TOM. I would rather someone just re-write the rules to TOTAN and make it be the next PPS release. You could pick classic rules or new rules when you start a game. Wasn't PPS talking about doing this with one of JPOPs games along with Funhouse 2.0?

39
#14281 4 years ago
Quoted from Lauro0521:

I don't feel like reading all this but what's all about ? Sorry newbie and lazy lol

3-4 years ago, John sold a game called MG to be built sometime circa 2013. Said game was limited to 13 copies making it uber rare, later he upped the number to 26 copies. He charged $16k for this limited edition game.

A short time later he sold another games called BHZA in slightly higher numbers 99 later increased to 124, at a price of $10k. Later the theme and title of the game was changed to RAZA, this was also supposed to be completed around 2013.

Later John added another game AIW to be completed, accepted deposits and payments on that too.

All during this time, John kept everything as hidden as possible, said he was working super hard and the pins were going go be great.

Also during this time, John made a Kiss pin which he had no license for, did not collect any deposits for, so he used all the other money collected to fund this game.

John from time to time would show a few bits and pieces of the game, but never anything as finished as a white wood or even a basic alpha prototype.

Many customers began to get worried or frustrated when 2013 came and went and no games were delivered, ditto 2014. To dissuade people from seeking legal means of getting refunds from John for breach of contract, failure to deliver. John had people post that they'd been to his workshop and the games were comming along well and were worth waiting for.

When this began to wear thin, John promised that at the 2014 Expo in October he would do a big reveal. Then at that expo John brought two totally empty cabinets. People freaked out.

So John promised he'd have real prototype reveals in Dec 2014 and January 2015 for MG and RAZA respectively. Predictably John showed nothing whatsoever.

People like myself said John was bluffing and he had nothing to show, while people like PDXmonkey said there were 95% complete prototypes and he'd played them and all was well, just taking longer than expected.

More time goes by, presumably dozens of people demand refund and/or start legal proceedings against John, John says he's working 14 hrs a day 7 days a week and is tired or perplexed that he's also getting hundreds of emails or texts or phone calls a day regarding the lack of progress. But things are still good.

Then maybe 3-4 weeks ago, John posts a letter saying he's completely broke, no one will get a refund and he's allowing an outside entity (shell) assume production of MG and that they can only proceed if you all (owners) agree not to sue anyone and any owners of RAZA and AIW should forget that, but can now get a MG for $16k (less what you have paid towards RAZA or AIW or MG) and that MG will no longer be a super rare game of 26 units but perhapse 199 and then an unlimited number after that.

People rush out an unfinished alpha prototype of MG to the NW show that has most features disabled, that is broken down most of the time at the show, that no one is able to even make a ramp shot except with glass off by hand, that has a laminate playfield that is totally warped or not stuck down properly.

I think that's this whole thread in a nutshell. Insiders like PDXMONKEY please correct anything I missed or was untruthful about.

#14282 4 years ago

I don't know who has the prototype now but keeping a running log of what's going on with it might be a really smart idea. There was obviously a lot of progress in 3 weeks, why not just keep updates going on everything? Transparency would go a long way with people.

And if part of the process is replacing custom mechs with off the shelf stuff it would be nice to document, and maybe the community even has ideas for some of it.

I'm as big a skeptic as anyone here, but the situation is what it is, might as well make whatever positive moves you can.

#14283 4 years ago

...

#14284 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Also during this time, John made a Kiss pin which he had no license for, did not collect any deposits for, so he used all the other money collected to fund this game.

The Kiss thing was a foam-core prototype only. A waste of time, sure. Some resources too. But mostly it was just art on foam filled cardboard. He didn't pay me anything for the code that ran the demo/tests, not sure how much he paid for the art mockups but I know they were a rush job.

#14285 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I think that's this whole thread in a nutshell.

285 summarized into < 400 words. Nice work! I feel like I read MOST of this entire thread but your summary filled in the gaps in my reading comprehension.

11
#14286 4 years ago
Quoted from copperpot:

285 summarized into < 400 words. Nice work! I feel like I read MOST of this entire thread but your summary filled in the gaps in my reading comprehension.

To be perfectly honest, I was in for RAZA to the tune of $6500 and as soon as I saw what he brought to Expo (empty cabinets), I politely but insistently asked for a refund. I must have texted and emailed John 10 times over and over using words like breach of contract, saying I've a good friend who's a lawyer, I even sent a certified demand letter and finally got a refund at the end of 2014.

I figured, even if made, there was little chance the games would live up to the price tag, more money than MMR. And I strongly figured, if John did have somethig super cool and rad, he would show the owners. The fact that John refused to show any progress for 2+ years was a glaring red flag for me.

#14287 4 years ago
Quoted from retro_p:

There is really only two things we can do at this point:
1. Wait for more news.
2. Argue, ad nauseum, with the "Piss in your Cheerios" types.
I've chosen 1, like many people.

Plenty here to fulfill #2:
We have lawyers who aren't lawyers but know enough about the law to give legal advice.
We have pinball manufacturers who have never built a machine.
We have financial advisers who can tell you what you should have done with your money.
We have fortune tellers who know what the future holds.
We have pinball designers who never even shopped out a game.
We have business analysts who have never owned a business.

Should be plenty more for them to talk about for a while.......

#14288 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

The Kiss thing was a foam-core prototype only. A waste of time, sure. Some resources too. But mostly it was just art on foam filled cardboard. He didn't pay me anything for the code that ran the demo/tests, not sure how much he paid for the art mockups but I know they were a rush job.

Totally fine with him doing this if he was also making progress on the games he had paying customers for, people who were keeping the lights on and keeping him fed and watered.

But he has no RAZA prototype and a 1/2 working MG prototype, I just feel those should take priority to his unpaid projects.

#14289 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

But he has no RAZA prototype and a 1/2 working MG prototype, I just feel those should take priority to his unpaid projects.

What should have taken priority was putting together a team that could actually run the business and get things done. It seems like John just did the part he knew how to on MG, then kind of hit a wall, fumbled around and started RAZA ... repeat.

#14290 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

Plenty here to fulfill #2:We have lawyers who aren't lawyers but know enough about the law to give legal advice.We have pinball manufacturers who have never built a machine.We have financial advisers who can tell you what you should have done with your money.We have fortune tellers who know what the future holds.We have pinball designers who never even shopped out a game.We have business analysts who have never owned a business.
Should be plenty more for them to talk about for a while.......

Welcome to the internet, hope your first day is going well.

#14291 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

3-4 years ago, John sold a game called MG to be built sometime circa 2013. Said game was limited to 13 copies making it uber rare, later he upped the number to 26 copies. He charged $16k for this limited edition game.
A short time later he sold another games called BHZA in slightly higher numbers 99 later increased to 124, at a price of $10k. Later the theme and title of the game was changed to RAZA, this was also supposed to be completed around 2013.
Later John added another game AIW to be completed, accepted deposits and payments on that too.
All during this time, John kept everything as hidden as possible, said he was working super hard and the pins were going go be great.
Also during this time, John made a Kiss pin which he had no license for, did not collect any deposits for, so he used all the other money collected to fund this game.
John from time to time would show a few bits and pieces of the game, but never anything as finished as a white wood or even a basic alpha prototype.
Many customers began to get worried or frustrated when 2013 came and went and no games were delivered, ditto 2014. To dissuade people from seeking legal means of getting refunds from John for breach of contract, failure to deliver. John had people post that they'd been to his workshop and the games were comming along well and were worth waiting for.
When this began to wear thin, John promised that at the 2014 Expo in October he would do a big reveal. Then at that expo John brought two totally empty cabinets. People freaked out.
So John promised he'd have real prototype reveals in Dec 2014 and January 2015 for MG and RAZA respectively. Predictably John showed nothing whatsoever.
People like myself said John was bluffing and he had nothing to show, while people like PDXmonkey said there were 95% complete prototypes and he'd played them and all was well, just taking longer than expected.
More time goes by, presumably dozens of people demand refund and/or start legal proceedings against John, John says he's working 14 hrs a day 7 days a week and is tired or perplexed that he's also getting hundreds of emails or texts or phone calls a day regarding the lack of progress. But things are still good.
Then maybe 3-4 weeks ago, John posts a letter saying he's completely broke, no one will get a refund and he's allowing an outside entity (shell) assume production of MG and that they can only proceed if you all (owners) agree not to sue anyone and any owners of RAZA and AIW should forget that, but can now get a MG for $16k (less what you have paid towards RAZA or AIW or MG) and that MG will no longer be a super rare game of 26 units but perhapse 199 and then an unlimited number after that.
People rush out an unfinished alpha prototype of MG to the NW show that has most features disabled, that is broken down most of the time at the show, that no one is able to even make a ramp shot except with glass off by hand, that has a laminate playfield that is totally warped or not stuck down properly.
I think that's this whole thread in a nutshell. Insiders like PDXMONKEY please correct anything I missed or was untruthful about.

yeah , nail on the head , amazing that we all rolled along with this crap Zidware story, unbelievable...

#14292 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I figured, even if made, there was little chance the games would live up to the price tag, more money than MMR. And I strongly figured, if John did have somethig super cool and rad, he would show the owners. The fact that John refused to show any progress for 2+ years was a glaring red flag for me.

Rai,it must feel supergood that you listened to your gut feeling,wow,while i actually transferred an extra $2000 dec.2014...i cannot help but feeling sooo stupid,no progress,nothing,silent AIW blog and no red flags...

#14293 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Welcome to the internet, hope your first day is going well.

Case in point

#14294 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Right now we are in a wait and see on Pintasia. And for me personally, I'm burned out and I have my real life to attend to.
There is no secondary group, Rommy.

I'm burned out as well. We saw the game. John didn't show up with it, either by choice or not, but it demonstrated that Pintasia is indeed a separate entity.

I know the entire deal hinges on Pintasia making a deal with an existing manufacturer, so all we can do is wait for that information, and watch whatever legal actions are going to happen.

My suggestion to Bill if this moves ahead at all is to ditch the legal agreements. It's asking too much of an abused customer base. If there is some sort of strong arm tactic telling me to sign by a certain date or give up my "credit", then I'm left out of that deal and have to revert back to chasing the person that took my money. I'm not signing anything, but I could be convinced to wait and see, if that involves me doing nothing.

-6
#14295 4 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

If Jim says he had a prototype almost a year ago and asked for those switches to be installed a year ago, what really kept someone over in that palatial zidware facility from making that happen?.

And what does "should have been done" really have to do with anything? That's history... no one could change it. The reality (not the wish) was the game was in state #1... the people worked to get it to state #2. Constant rehashing over what state #1 SHOULD have been is nothing but huffing and puffing over shit no one can change.

My god will people ever learn to just move on and worry about what you CAN control?

#14296 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

please correct anything I missed or was untruthful about.

John bought a dog.

#14297 4 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

What good does flipping a few times and draining do? JJP might have done this on a few early proto demo's but at every show I have ever been to WOZ and now TH have been on 3 ball

TH was set to 2 balls at Allentown. But still twice as better than 1 ball.

#14298 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

The silence is deafening. It's like once the proto made it to the show-radio silence was implemented.

Or simply.. some of the noise generators left the thread finally. Don't say their name three times or we'll have to suffer through it all again.

#14299 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Left side has the same spinning lamp mech as TOTAN.

I thought I saw a disc with two bars in some other pictures. My rant was just based on a quick look at the Pinball news pictures. I'm sure there is more.

Here I thought I was going to get trashed instead I find 14 thumbs up.

#14300 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Right now we are in a wait and see on Pintasia. And for me personally, I'm burned out and I have my real life to attend to.
There is no secondary group, Rommy.

Kim I can't imagine. I have been friends with you for years. I remember your excitement about Jpop and I was freaking out loving the BHZA idea looking over every detail on the website.

All of the extra kicks in the gut must be giving you an ulcer.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 119.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Hookedonpinball.com
There are 24288 posts in this topic. You are on page 286 of 486.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside