(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 24,316 posts
  • 915 Pinsiders participating
  • Topic is favorited by 166 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 1,696 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

sucks (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
bdabce9707bfa3eff92d0142c16fcb601c1ef058 (resized).jpeg
Deeproot_attire (resized).jpg
winds (resized).jpg
RAZA (resized).jpg
download (resized).jpeg
2g5x1v (resized).jpg
IMG_20161013_200354 (resized).jpg
hansonbrothers01 (resized).jpg
A33B8CA7-AD75-4E38-A815-1767E3A91C7A (resized).jpeg
D826C035-3CEF-4ADA-B80C-E04EE4B8BE8B (resized).jpeg
throwing-tomatoes-gif-1.gif
jpop sitting (resized).jpg
9E0B162E-329F-4B2E-9AB7-0FC857A196AB (resized).jpeg
expo (resized).png

Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 24316 posts in this topic. You are on page 285 of 487.
#14201 4 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

Actually this really IS the only unsubstantiated claim and could be complete BS designed to give you even more drama to rant about...
The guy that wrote it probably hoped a whole bunch of people would then run with it... unfortunately he only got you.
It may or may not be true but this little second-hand note *proves* absolutely nothing.

Actually RotorDave is a WELL respected pinhead worldwide and if he says something is true then it is. It is as good as fact even if he was nice enough to redact the pinsiders real name.

I personally know another pinhead whom has an email from Jpop ~6weeks ago telling him that a RAZA spot was available and sent him info for payment. I also am not going to reveal the persons name as it if obvious that some of the supporters here will go to great lengths.

#14202 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I think all the pro-censorship advocates are saying what amounts to this:
If you don't have any skin in the game you shouldn't say anything, and if you don't have a mouth full of praise for the very rough (poor) prototype game you should not say anything.

Over and over last night iceman kept saying this here, in the jpop thread, while posting in the skitb thread. And then he attacked TBL, which he has money in neither. So, yeah... People are welcome to state this as their opinion but in the end if you enjoy pinball crap like this impacts everyone.

-14
#14203 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Actually RotorDave is a WELL respected pinhead worldwide and if he says something is true then it is. It is as good as fact even if he was nice enough to redact the pinsiders real name.
I personally know another pinhead whom has an email from Jpop ~6weeks ago telling him that a RAZA spot was available and sent him info for payment. I also am not going to reveal the persons name as it if obvious that some of the supporters here will go to great lengths.

Has nothing to do with "RotorDave" and you know it. It was just an anonymous letter sent to him. Might have been to just stir things up.
That's what people do btw.

I think with your inherent lack of credibility (sorry dude that's the truth) I will simply ignore your second piece of "evidence".

If a "real" person DID send this message then let them stand up and say it. Who would it hurt if Joe XX says Zidware wanted their money just recently?? Still probably wouldn't prove anything but you guys are the ones screaming about "no secrets".

If "no secrets" is good for the Bill deal then it should also be good for any accusations. Real simple.

#14204 4 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

Actually this really IS the only unsubstantiated claim and could be complete BS designed to give you even more drama to rant about...
The guy that wrote it probably hoped a whole bunch of people would then run with it... unfortunately he only got you.
It may or may not be true but this little second-hand note *proves* absolutely nothing.

You are wrong . Ask RotorDave. Or even better , contact John Popadiuk now and ask to sign up for AIW . We have evidence he is still attempting to victimize additional pinheads. We have ZERO evidence he has stopped. He has not even claimed to have stopped taking in money , that is just unsubstantiated rumor with no evidence. All evidence points to him continuing the scam.

-6
#14205 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

You are wrong . Ask RotorDave. Or even better , contact John Popadiuk now and ask to sign up for AIW . We have evidence he is still attempting to victimize additional pinheads. We have ZERO evidence he has stopped. He has not even claimed to have stopped taking in money , that is just unsubstantiated rumor with no evidence. All evidence points to him continuing the scam.

I'm not "wrong" at all. Without any actual real people saying this there really no "proof". Personally I think it's quite possible but I get tired of reading these rants with no actual names, evidence, etc...

"No secrets" remember...?

#14206 4 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

I'm not "wrong" at all. Without any actual real people saying this there really no "proof". Personally I think it's quite possible but I get tired of reading these rants with no actual names, evidence, etc...
"No secrets" remember...?

Presumably RD has seen the emails directly from jpop. If not they are available according to the emailer. Either way,
What about this whole situation and jpops actions make this unbelievable for you? You are tired of "rants with no proof" and yet the allegations are all proving true time and time again. Number one reason to believe it is that jpop already sunk the project himself, nobody has to lie to go after him.

#14207 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

From what I am reading it seems like the absolute minimum BOM for this game is 10k each if everything went perfectly and things got simplified. A realistic BOM estimate is supposedly 16k. That means the real murphy's law BOM is likely more like 20k.

Your post was well thought out. Unfortunately it stemmed from one premise. That's the minimum BOM being $10k or maybe $20k. I believe the BOM can be reduced to around $5k once several of the parts are standardized. So redo your entire logic based on that and you can see a feasibility of a game getting completed and being profitable.

#14208 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Presumably RD has seen the emails directly from jpop. If not they are available according to the emailer. Either way,
What about this whole situation and jpops actions make this unbelievable for you? You are tired of "rants with no proof" and yet the allegations are all proving true time and time again. Number one reason to believe it is that jpop already sunk the project himself, nobody has to lie to go after him.

I never said it was "unbelievable" at all. Quite the opposite if you actually read what I wrote.

At least you admit they are allegations... THAT was my only point. Ranters shouldn't say there is "evidence" until real, verifiable people
can prove it. You want proof in the Bill deal - then provide it when it goes the other way. I think what I'm saying is simple to understand and I'm the last guy to support JP.

Besides like you say... he's proven himself to be a bit of scumbag (can I say that here?) and took all your money. Why argue about THIS
point? Seems par for the course.

#14209 4 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Your post was well thought out. Unfortunately it stemmed from one premise. That's the minimum BOM being $10k or maybe $20k. I believe the BOM can be reduced to around $5k once several of the parts are standardized. So redo your entire logic based on that and you can see a feasibility of a game getting completed and being profitable.

What is it going to cost to re-engineer the game? How many magnets and mechs are you taking out? What is the cost of your manufacturer?

#14210 4 years ago

You can't replace that combined magnet/ball popper with standard parts. Is that part of the BOM calculation of $5K?

What else can't be replaced without major redesign?

#14211 4 years ago
Quoted from Lauro0521:

I don't feel like reading all this but what's all about ? Sorry newbie and lazy lol

Call JPOP and have a check ready for $16,000. Don't miss out!

#14213 4 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

I think with your inherent lack of credibility (sorry dude that's the truth) I will simply ignore your second piece of "evidence".

how are personal attacks like this tolerated?

when I got the boot for much less...

#14214 4 years ago
Quoted from TOK:

Call JPOP and have a check ready for $16,000. Don't miss out!

Well that WOULD clear up whether he's still taking orders Just make sure you stop the check in a couple hours.

#14215 4 years ago
Quoted from deeproot:

This was our informal plan, that's not under any NDA. John was to turnover MG and RAZA by July in whatever condition they were in at that time. Then John would 'disappear' for 2 years working on AIW. With RAZA for a release at 692 units by October 2016. MG at 1130 units in 2017. And AIW at 2k units in early 2018. All vendors paid by June 2015. All presales refunded by Feb 2016 for those that chose to not accept delivery (with refunds in part or credits for MSRP less than the amounts John arbitrarily chose at time of machine delivery). Penalty for refund would have been loss of certain 'privileges' (which will remain undisclosed as it is now moot). No real point to worry about any of that now. I wish these new investors the best. They are going to need it.
Lastly, we understand that by disclosing this information, we will open up ample opportunities for many to bash or criticize. No one else (including the few manufacturers today) came up with a solution to completely resolve the JPop dilemma. But at the end of the day not only was this plan realistic, it would have made everyone whole and released three amazing designs into a deserving community proving unlicensed themes can still match or exceed licensed ones. Bash away
RJM dT/dP

I don't know if deeproot is still actively following this monster thread, so I'll address the following question to others here...

What was it about the deeproot proposal that people didn't like?

a) All vendors paid by June 2015.
b) All presales refunded by Feb 2016 for those that chose to not accept delivery.

Was it simply a question of viability? People just didn't believe it would happen? Or did Popadiuk or someone else torpedo the deeproot deal?

Perhaps if there was some real price competition between the interested "licensees" or "buyers", then all of the creditors would have benefited?

#14216 4 years ago

I believe deeproot's plan was to buy Zidware outright rather than just a license, and the egomaniac control freak didn't like that.

#14217 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

how are personal attacks like this tolerated?
when I got the boot for much less...

Not a personal attack at all. In fact I didn't want to embarrass you any further about your behavior in the Pred thread so I kept it simple but accurate. Shouting people down, repeatedly LOUDLY stating "the license is a done deal people! what's your problem?"... etc... even when they were questioning the web wipe - this stuff might JUST affect your credibility.

So to see you now over here ranting yet again just rubs me the wrong way. I suppose I should have simply put you on "ignore" as you remind me of the RGP-style posters that I wanted to get away from. I've never used the ignore and didn't want to but realize that may have been the way to go.

Live and learn.

12
#14218 4 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

Not a personal attack at all. In fact I didn't want to embarrass you any further about your behavior in the Pred thread so I kept it simple but accurate. Shouting people down, repeatedly LOUDLY stating "the license is a done deal people! what's your problem?"... etc... even when they were questioning the web wipe - this stuff might JUST affect your credibility.
So to see you now over here ranting yet again just rubs me the wrong way. I suppose I should have simply put you on "ignore" as you remind me of the RGP-style posters that I wanted to get away from. I've never used the ignore and didn't want to but realize that may have been the way to go.
Live and learn.

Sorry you must have missed where I repeatedly apologized for continuing to cheer on that project and not waking up to the signs sooner that it was dead in the water.

More likely I am guessing you saw my apologies and just took the low road like you often do and wanted to take the cheapest shot you could. How was it you planned to embarrass me?

I have no problem owning my faults.

23
#14219 4 years ago

Manic and Whysnow, take it to PM please or better yet, both drop it.

For what it is worth I believe Rotordave's email. It looked like JPop's weirdo writing style. Not sure that matters at this point.

-12
#14220 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Manic and Whysnow, take it to PM please or better yet, both drop it.
For what it is worth I believe Rotordave's email. It looked like JPop's weirdo writing style. Not sure that matters at this point.

How about just giving this guy the needed time out for his personal attacks?

Then we can get back to discussing how it appears Jpop has very recently still been soliciting money from people, even after he was in negotiations to sell the IP.

#14221 4 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

Not a personal attack at all. In fact I didn't want to embarrass you any further about your behavior in the Pred thread so I kept it simple but accurate. Shouting people down, repeatedly LOUDLY stating "the license is a done deal people! what's your problem?"... etc... even when they were questioning the web wipe - this stuff might JUST affect your credibility.
So to see you now over here ranting yet again just rubs me the wrong way.

It's not really fair to compare WhySnow 1.0 (early Skit-B thread) to WhySnow 2.0 (current Popadiuk thread). This is the updated model.

#14222 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

It's not really fair to compare WhySnow 1.0 (early Skit-B thread) to WhySnow 2.0 (current Popadiuk thread). This is the updated model.

you are being generous. It is more like v1.21.

Still in need of polish most days.

31
#14223 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Manic and Whysnow, take it to PM please or better yet, both drop it.
For what it is worth I believe Rotordave's email. It looked like JPop's weirdo writing style. Not sure that matters at this point.

Thanks

The email was given to me by a well respected person in pinball circles, he was the one who emailed asking about AIW.

We discussed it first in person. He showed me the email on his phone. Straight from the source. For obvious reasons, he didn't want to post it here so I offered to.

It was 1000% genuine I can assure everyone. That's 10x 100%. So it's gotta be genuine.

I will not disclose his identity, please don't ask me to do so. Just rest assured, it is genuine.

rd.

-7
#14224 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

It's not really fair to compare WhySnow 1.0 (early Skit-B thread) to WhySnow 2.0 (current Popadiuk thread). This is the updated model.
Joking aside, people often learn and grow from their experiences, and I think WhySnow will be the first to admit that.

I should have hit "ignore" a while back. That's my fault.

I just see him back to ranting as usual and if you describe his recent behavior... it's the "low road". Not sure why accurately describing someone's behavior is a bad thing. I didn't drag up any of the posts... that's what I meant by embarrassing someone.

But then to cry "Mommy" to the mods... lol

OK I hit ignore... sorry to anybody and PS that was bothered.

#14225 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

How about just giving this guy the needed time out for his personal attacks?
Then we can get back to discussing how it appears Jpop has very recently still been soliciting money from people, even after he was in negotiations to sell the IP.

You've reported what you view as a personal attack. It is under advisement and we will see what another mod says.

An action either will be taken or will not be taken. Manic certainly does not to appear to be in any meltdown at the moment so if he follows instructions and drops the discussion point I see no need to boot him at this moment, pending a second mod looking at the back and forth.

I agree, you've apologized repeatedly for Predator and there is no need to keep hammering you on it. That said, some people are going to feel awkward with you taking strong positions on highly heated matters such as this for a little while. I think you should expect it for a little while.

Anyway, the last thing this thread needs is more drama. So please take it to pm or just drop it.

#14226 4 years ago
Quoted from Lauro0521:

I don't feel like reading all this but what's all about ? Sorry newbie and lazy lol

Farts. Hot farts to be exact.

#14227 4 years ago

Wow, according to that letter if you bought either of the other two machines you're really getting burned.

#14228 4 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

Zidware is the only one that SHOULD owe 19 customers a game. If not Zidware, where is this money supposed to come from? Pintasia has the only proposal on the table to do so at the expense of RAZA and AIW customers, along with new buyers. SHOULD and reality are two entirely different things.

My entire point being that if they can't be built with zero more dollars coming from buyers then they should not be made. Otherwise you just end up with a big pyramid scheme with even more buyers (if not 100% of them) getting screwed.

#14229 4 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

My entire point being that if they can't be built with zero more dollars coming from buyers then they should not be made. Otherwise you just end up with a big pyramid scheme with even more buyers (if not 100% of them) getting screwed.

Right, and the problem stems from the fact that the original $300k (19*16k) would never have fully funded the build in the first place. This situation was almost inevitable from the outset. The question now is it worth going forward with an expanded production number to get it built or let it die?

#14230 4 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

Right, and the problem stems from the fact that the original $300k (19*16k) would never have fully funded the build in the first place. This situation was almost inevitable from the outset. The question now is it worth going forward with an expanded production number to get it built or let it die?

I'm still trying to understand why the effort is "finish MG at any cost"? Is it simply because it was assumed to be the closest to completion?

If it's indeed the game with the LEAST number of people "invested"- why not survey the group and determine if it's even worth throwing more time and money at?

Obviously MG isn't "shovel ready", so if it's going to take a major redesign, perhaps it's actually NOT the best machine to build? I mean, once you look past the nice artwork, the game seemed unremarkable.

Are RAZA and/or AIW even on the radar for prototypes?

#14231 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

What is it going to cost to re-engineer the game? How many magnets and mechs are you taking out? What is the cost of your manufacturer?

One hundred dollars! What kind if question is that? If they want to sell more of them the BOM must come down. The reengineering costs are peanuts compared to what Jpop has collected. At least the guy pointed out something fresh and insightful in this boondoggle thread. I swear I think it might have been better if Bill never took on this project.

#14232 4 years ago

Bingo!

#14233 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

One hundred dollars! What kind if question is that? If they want to sell more of them the BOM must come down. The reengineering costs are peanuts compared to what Jpop has collected. At least the guy pointed out something fresh and insightful in this boondoggle thread. I swear I think it might have been better if Bill never took on this project.

Bill taking on the project is a distraction of the real problem-JPOP. He should have waited for the BK AND PURCHASED THE LICENSE LATER. He then could have offered some credits to all purchasers and would look like a hero.

#14234 4 years ago
Quoted from BackFlipper:

Bill taking on the project is a distraction of the real problem-JPOP. He should have waited for the BK AND PURCHASED THE LICENSE LATER. He then could have offered some credits to all purchasers and would look like a hero.

Yes, but then Bill might be bidding vs other interested parties.... I assume he chose the timing very deliberately.

It was unclear if (under the jpop plan) he was going to have to pay anything (to Jpop). He wouldn't assume the liability, but would TRY to offer credits to the jpop victims.... Jpop might trade away the whole thing for protection from lawsuit, and a Liles multiyear gig "consulting" on the games.

Vs

Having to big against someone else looking to pickup the work done so far for a song.

Btw- I'm not suggesting Bills strategy was a bad one.

#14235 4 years ago

Perhaps Magic Girl could get licensed to Pinball Arcade and that could somehow bring the costs down from their astronomical levels? Or get the damn machines to the people that already paid for them?

#14236 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Yes, but then Bill might be bidding vs other interested parties.... I assume he chose the timing very deliberately.
It was unclear if (under the jpop plan) he was going to have to pay anything (to Jpop). He wouldn't assume the liability, but would TRY to offer credits to the jpop victims.... Jpop might trade away the whole thing for protection from lawsuit, and a Liles multiyear gig "consulting" on the games.
Vs
Having to big against someone else looking to pickup the work done so far for a song.
Btw- I'm not suggesting Bills strategy was a bad one.

Agreed, but I really don't think the MG license has a value of more than $25K. I don't think any of the bigger manufacturers would have touched it. I am guessing Bill has spent much more than that already. Just a guess.

#14237 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

You can't replace that combined magnet/ball popper with standard parts. Is that part of the BOM calculation of $5K?
What else can't be replaced without major redesign?

is there anything on that pin, which is standard ? flipper bats?/flipper assemblies

#14238 4 years ago
Quoted from ledge:

is there anything on that pin, which is standard ? flipper bats?/flipper assemblies

Those parts even seem to be custom . This is why there's an astronomical build cost.

Quoted from lowepg:

I'm still trying to understand why the effort is "finish MG at any cost"? Is it simply because it was assumed to be the closest to completion?

correct

10
#14239 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

I think it's in FAR FAR better hands with the folks here that are volunteering their time..

A $16,000 game being built by volunteers, now THAT'S funny.

#14240 4 years ago

The flipper assemblies are standard, BTW.

#14241 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

I'm still trying to understand why the effort is "finish MG at any cost"? Is it simply because it was assumed to be the closest to completion?
If it's indeed the game with the LEAST number of people "invested"- why not survey the group and determine if it's even worth throwing more time and money at?

It doesn't really matter how many people had pre-orders of each game, it was an artificial limit, rather than one based on demand. Also, need it be said again? Zidware is bankrupt and all outstanding orders are null and void.

Look, it's this simple: there is one person in the world willing to invest enough money into MG to get it done. If that effort is successful the others could follow, so if you really wanted RAZA or AIW you should be rooting for MG's success.

37
#14242 4 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Just got home from the show and have a few comments on the game.
The artwork is the best I've ever seen in pinball from the playfield to the cabinet. The lighting looked ok in person with the lights on and doesn't look so trashy as it looks in the photos.
As for the way the game plays. There were several issues some of which were somewhat small issues that had big negative results. Let's go through these one by one.
The first is that the right side subway. This piece requires the ball to travel backwards - from the front of the playfield to the back. Due to this, the gravity of the game worked against the subway. The subway itself needs to be reworked to be taller underneath in the back so it can have a steeper grade. In actual game design, this wouldn't be a huge issue. But we were working with what we had at the show. One of the only ways to work around this was to flatten the pitch of the game to help the ball roll back better. It was a necessary evil that resulted in the game looking like it was around a 5 degree pitch. Contrary to comments in this thread by people across the country, it wasn't because we were too stupid to twist the leg levelers.
Next issue, the software has not yet implemented a ball search. In normal development, this isn't a big deal. Adding a couple timers and having a switch resetting timer is a relatively simple task to complete and could be done in a few hours of work. But regardless, it wasn't done yet. The result of this was that every time the ball got stuck (and that was usually on the subway described above), the playfield had to be lifted. That required not putting the glass on and required having someone babysit the game for it to be played. Contrary to comments by people that weren't even present, this had nothing to do with Bills unwillingness to spend $300 on a sheet of invisiglass.
The next issue is that the game magnets were not yet added or implemented. Unlike the above two issues that were relatively simple to fix given more time, this is a big deal and requires some game physical modification as well as a ton of software work to properly pulse them. As a developer, I don't even believe some of the goals of some of the magnets are feasible (such as holding balls in lock for extended time periods without another mechanical mech to hold them). Unfortunately, the impact of this made the game look quite featureless. I know I explained to several folks at the show how many of the magnets will work describing the missing features.
Another issue was the playfield protector. The protector was fastened down in the front but in a way that caused a small air bubble near the flippers. Had the protector been simply free floating, it would have been ok. This is another very simple fix that was not something that could be done at the show. But this resulted in the ball losing its power at the flipper area. This made the flippers seem weak and it threw off the timing of the ramp shot. To those at the show paying attention, I would not expect this to be a long term concern and it should be obvious that it would be relatively easy to fix.
There were a lot of other software problems most of which would be relatively simple to sort out (coming from perspective of someone that understands the code). Unfortunately, there was no time with the machine to make changes prior to unveiling at the show.
That's my take on the current state of the MG prototype that was at show.

This thing that surprises me most is how much is still incomplete on the playfield, compared to what i had on my prototype over a year previously. Also some of the comments made about magnets not being coded are just plain wrong. You can see clearly that switches are missing from various places including the ramps, and also some of the actual magnets are not even installed. Also, the main arcade mode seem to be left set at 1 ball per game, even though this was easily adjustable and the Ball search feature is included in the framework, but not configured for development, as it confuses things when testing rules and proper mech operation.

Even though i am owed a 5 figure sum from popaduik i still offered to answer questions or give advice on technical items, service mode settings, code etc for the guys there during the weekend to help smooth out the demos as best i could. I did not get a single question....

Looking at one of the videos posted you can see that when the door opens the poor game is trying to tell you to check a bunch of switches including the ramp entry and exits. Someone even says 'i guess we have to just wait for these messages to go by'

Anyway, back to work for me, i've got a shed load of money to make up for....

#14243 4 years ago

Will depositors be allowed to see the contract between Zidware and Pinasia before footing more $$$ into this project?

When is John Popadiuk due in court, and how likely is it that the contract between Pinasia and Zidware could be voided by the court?

#14244 4 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

Perhaps Magic Girl could get licensed to Pinball Arcade and that could somehow bring the costs down from their astronomical levels?

That would entail completed code (applejuice did as much as he could), and it would also entail the physical machine to be transported to the pinball arcade's office so that all parts can be scanned and 3d modeled. that's a huge undertaking, and a big gamble on pinball arcade's part of whether all that effort would even be profitable (they would likely also have to re-code it with their language).

#14245 4 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

Perhaps Magic Girl could get licensed to Pinball Arcade and that could somehow bring the costs down from their astronomical levels? Or get the damn machines to the people that already paid for them?

I would think this is possible and could be a special table for $5-$6. I would think they would have some metrics to predict sales of this. I would absolutely buy it. They may be able to set aside $1 of every sale for unpaid vendors.

#14246 4 years ago

Brilliant!!

#14247 4 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

This thing that surprises me most is how much is still incomplete on the playfield, compared to what i had on my prototype over a year previously.

Maybe somebody decided to build 2 complete prototypes and send the least populated/ready game to the NW-show and the most populated / equipped game (and parts) somewhere else ?

With all different information coming from different directions, it is surprising how less is still known and how much communication still hasn't been done ...

#14248 4 years ago
Quoted from Avatar:

Maybe somebody decided to build 2 complete prototypes and send the least populated/ready game to the NW-show and the most populated / equipped game (and parts) somewhere else ?
With all different information coming from different directions, it is surprising how less is still known and how much communication still hasn't been done ...

I can tell you first hand that the most complete machine was the one that went to the NW show.

John (PDX Monkey) only loaded the one machine in his rental, and no extra parts.

Andrew

#14249 4 years ago

.

Quoted from Baiter:The BOM is high because there is no volume...19 of anything custom is insanely expensive. Now that it is clear it will take the community to complete the game, I'd recommend retooling as much as possible to standard parts, which will lower BOM, resulting in lower price which attracts more buyers, which is the only way to get this done.

In working on the game, and talking to John and seeing the cad drawings, I think much of the $ went to design for boards, custom lights (yes, even the lights were custom boards w/LED chips). Lots of $ spent on custom light design, boards, art and coders (I presume Applejuice got paid up until he said earlier, late 2014 I believe?) so vendors paid at least 2011-2014. The apron is custom stainless, the side rails are stainless (vs. stern black wood rails), custom boards for lights, custom boards for cpu, drivers, transformer was custom, cabinets and BB is custom (and patents?), BG is custom with inserted speakers (no speaker panel in back), custom scoop, custom subway.

Anyway, change all those to standard, and BoM goes down dramatically. Leave the 19 with all stainless, lightening bolts everywhere, etc. and then "regular run" of MG up to 199 with standard apron, rails, lighting etc. Most of the deposit money was spent on sunk, fixed costs for design, not the variable cost of each machines BoM. I think Bill can make the numbers work for both versions.

For RAZA, the BoM could be even cheaper b/c its a larger run, standard (mostly) parts, and could be much less cost / machine.

#14250 4 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

I don't get it...at what point is this game worth $16K?
What exactly are people looking for? A pinball machine that can play a game, grill a burger, and then fly to the moon?
Maybe I'm just completely out of touch, but this notion of creating ultra-rare, super-duper-crazy-insane special, machines is weird. Whatever happened to pressing start and justing playing games?

I don't get it either. Pre-orders are saying it isn't the $16k worth they paid for. But it was totally a sight-unseen, JPop design, $16k. So there were people who said a vaporware pinball is worth $16k. So, before 2011, all the $ sent to Jpop were for a pinball, whatever design and theme fit Magic and Zombies. For everyone to go back now, and say the machine revealed isn't what I imagined, I don't see as being valid.

Interesting to see if a judge says, well games are coming, just beyond your time frame and what you imagined - after all, you did put money in without seeing anything - and production estimates of timing are just that, estimates. So you will get a game, at the price you agreed to up front - where's the fraud and damages I should award you from the defendant?

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 625.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
$ 9.00
Playfield - Other
Hdmike mods
$ 30.00
Playfield - Decals
Mods for your pinballs
There are 24316 posts in this topic. You are on page 285 of 487.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside