(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#14151 4 years ago

After all this, I'd like to see someone finish the prototype at least and get it flipping how it should. It seems like most of the drawings and designs are done, so it needs someone to build those missing pieces and further work on the software.

$50K maybe? Mechanical and programming work?

If you go over it to use standard components you're essentially doing a new game from scratch, so keeping the existing custom stuff makes sense in the short term.

I dunno, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. If it was a fully complete prototype maybe, but in this state there's months of work just to get it playable properly. I guess it depends on how determined everyone is.

10
#14152 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

When it was fully disclosed that Kevin Kulek didn't have a license for Predator and the project was effectively dead, a surprisingly large number of people didn't get mad at Kevin, but got mad at those who they felt tipped off Fox. "If you had just kept your stinkin' traps shut, we all woulda got our games!" In other words, the legality of it, or that it wouldn't be a legitimately licensed Predator product, or that Kevin had committed fraud against them, didn't matter to them, long as they got there's.
I'm starting to think a variation of this is going on with regards to MG. "Who cares what shady stuff this Sabrina woman might be doing on the side, as long as we get our games?" But, if that's the case, that's an extremely dangerous gamble on what's already a long-shot situation.

People who do business in the shadows shouldn't be surprised when they find out they've been dealing with shady characters.

Anything that is legitimate, should be able to withstand the scrutiny of the community.

#14153 4 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

I don't get it...at what point is this game worth $16K?
What exactly are people looking for? A pinball machine that can play a game, grill a burger, and then fly to the moon?
Maybe I'm just completely out of touch, but this notion of creating ultra-rare, super-duper-crazy-insane special, machines is weird. Whatever happened to pressing start and justing playing games?

Well one guy did write him and say "at that price the damn thing better give me a blowj*b while I play"!

To JPop's credit he then installed the vacuum attachment we've been hearing about. Who says he doesn't listen to critics?

Also only 19 games = worth maybe 40k each in a year? = attracts speculators.

12
#14154 4 years ago

The only way that any of these games SHOULD be made is if it can be done without buyers adding one more dime.

#14155 4 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

The only way that any of these games SHOULD be made is if it can be done without buyers adding one more dime.

They still raised the price essentially making you buy it again

-40
#14156 4 years ago

Wow....I REALLY don't like that the OP can't close down a Thread when asked. I thought that was the rule.

#14157 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Just because people have a difference of opinion, or not everyone thinks this pin looks like much (it looks bad, I mean gameplay not art). But just because we are not doing cart wheels over MG doesn't mean we can't post here.
Also, my posts over the years have been directed against John (how he was jerking everyone around). This has since been proven, or are you disputing that? You should be thanking me for calling out Jerk-Pop instead of defending him if it wasn't for people asking hard questions or posting bad things about Jpop this farce could still be going on.
If this pin played anything like AcDc or TOM or TAF or Kiss there would not be one negative post here, but the ramp can't even be hit, that's kind of a problem don't you think?

Hey, opinions are what they are. You keep saying things over and over and over - 403 posts or so is boring is all. I'll take your advice - ignored.

34
#14158 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Wow....I REALLY don't like that the OP can't close down a Thread when asked. I thought that was the rule.

If that was a rule, it would be about the dumbest rule that I've ever heard.

Just because you start a thread doesn't mean that you own it's content or control the discussion.

33
#14159 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Wow....I REALLY don't like that the OP can't close down a Thread when asked. I thought that was the rule.

Why should this thread be shut down? This story is far too important to be swept under the rug. This thread must remain open and John Popadiuk must be continued to be publicly shamed until people get refunds or a game....or how about a humble apology at least? What a cowardly jerk. This thread is bigger than the OP.

#14160 4 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

I don't get it...at what point is this game worth $16K?

I'm with you.

I would think that a not-insignificant part of the original buyers' decision to get in on this was not just because it was a super-limited run, but because it was a machine designed and hand-built by an industry legend/iconoclast/crackpot/swindler/insert-your-own-descriptor-here.

Now (if it does crawl across the finish line) it'll be a machine with a design modified and hand-built by... "Bill."

#14161 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Wow....I REALLY don't like that the OP can't close down a Thread when asked. I thought that was the rule.

People will discuss what they want to discuss. Closing the thread would be a waste of time since someone would just start a new one.

#14162 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

People will discuss what they want to discuss. Closing the thread would be a waste of time since someone would just start a new one.

But I thought that was the OP choice. (that's what was told to me)

11
#14163 4 years ago

Capture.JPG

This thread is way bigger than 1 pinsider.

#14164 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

This thread is way bigger than 1 pinsider.

...aren't they all...

#14165 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

To me, I don't see a profit. That's the point. That's why I'm asking questions.
I do, and have done, "good" things for the pinball community. I've run nearly 50 tournaments, helped out at every single pinball show in my area since 2009, started a pinball map, done lectures and outreach and so on, all volunteer and "for fun". More, I know many similar people in pinball, including the principals who run the shows.
I'm not patting myself on the back, but illustrating I'm pretty freaking wired in to the part of pinball where people help out of their good hearts, and I can't think of a single one (and I know some very rich ones, too) who would take on a JJP 2.0 for "fun". In short, it sounds "too good to be true". It doesn't add up.
I don't know of anyone who signs up to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars or worse, and commits to a multi-year business endeavor out of the goodness of their hearts. We're not talking about orphans or cancer victims, but pinball games.
This is why I'm questioning your assumptions. You are assuming a significant financial sacrifice on his part that to my knowledge hasn't been validated.
I'm sure it must be seductive to imagine a rich guy swooping in to provide a magic solution to this situation. Suddenly a savior appears and it's tempting to get on board. But I also know that people who have been kicked emotionally and financially in the balls are susceptible to strangers with ice packs. And the moment they take their hands off their nuts to reach for that ice pack, sometimes they get an ice pack and sometimes they get a second kick in the balls.
Now ask yourself this question: why does a guy do things "for the community" or "for fun" have a co-pilot tied to ponzi scams, and who just made a video LAST MONTH for said ponzi scams? "At least they're doing something to get these made" doesn't answer the question.

Why not ask Bill these questions, send him a PM on pinside - I don't understand why the several here asking questions, don't ask bill or Pinstasia directly - my understanding is that owners have a direct contact info to do so. If you don't have a $ in the game, why ask about the deal or Bill's profit projections?

49
#14166 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Also note three weeks ago came was way further behind.
No rampsNo subwayNo scoopEtc

Seems like a lot of people who have started picking up the project to help get it available for the show are taking the criticism very personally. Like the people who criticize the project are going to kill a wilting flower they are trying to bring back to life.

Pdxmonkey is the guy who coyly told us "there is a game, I've played it." He also knew ages ago that there were no working mechs on the thing, never mind all the other deficiencies. Nobody was claiming that Zidware had an empty garage and the cabinets and game were not real. The claim was that for all the promises that the game was 95% complete, there was "basically" no game and John's assertions otherwise were nonsense. That turned out to be true, and pdxmonkey knew it a looooong time ago.

So now to criticize the project is supposed to be taboo because it hurts the feelings of people who have put time into it for the past 3 weeks? Get over yourselves, people wanted honest assessments of what the game IS in its current form, not what it "will be" (a promise with no guarantees).

Currently it is apparently a bare-bones pre-alpha prototype that looks beautiful. Many of the mechanics, however, were dreamed up with functions in mind that John probably came to terms with as beyond his skill to complete. Most of those mechs, realistically, will have to be removed or simplified for the game to be viable. John probably had concepts of what would "be cool" and thought that he could be just like Tesla and sit in a lab and invent ways for the magnets to do all the cool stuff. He then found out at some point that he was not capable.

You can tell that John wanted to put in all the ideas he had for his previous games that got nixed by higher ups. I'm guessing smarter people than him made the decisions because they were impractical for reasons varying from BOM to complexity or fragility.

From what I am reading it seems like the absolute minimum BOM for this game is 10k each if everything went perfectly and things got simplified. A realistic BOM estimate is supposedly 16k. That means the real murphy's law BOM is likely more like 20k.

From the multiple pages of feedback here, I am seeing an absolute maximum retail price of 10k. Which means even at the best of conditions you're covering ONLY BOM. You start out at zero maximum, and potential losses are huge. People do not go into business to lose money. If this is your thought process, then you need to reconsider. Nobody wants to buy you your Magic Girl out of their pocket because they love pinball.

The point being, there is no business case for this project to ever complete successfully. That means the only way to make money on this is by taking money and not producing the machines, or at least not fully producing them (i.e. complete it with very low quality) We are seeing a lot of volunteers and vendors attaching themselves to this project because yes, they are nice people. They don't want to be criticized because they are doing a nice thing, and just trying to do their best for the community and these pretty machines and whatnot. However, you are hitching your wagon to a dead horse. And because it (the "project plan") does not make any sense whatsoever, people are asking you how you plan for that horse to pull the wagon.

Some people are taking these posts as attacks, but they are legitimate concerns on behalf of the people who are being taken for a ride. Nobody wants to cause the project to fail. Nobody is basking in the glory of another failed project because they want to watch the world burn. They simply want to bring you back to reality - MG is starting from scratch (mechanically) and has no ability to make any money. It is a beautiful cabinet and playfield. Everything else is going to have to be re-engineered, from the parts to the design layout. And there is no money to do this coming from anybody.

#14167 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

"Who cares what shady stuff this Sabrina woman might be doing on the side, as long as we get our games?" But, if that's the case, that's an extremely dangerous gamble on what's already a long-shot situation.

When emotion outpaces logic in a big decision, get the waterhose because someone is about to get burned.

#14168 4 years ago

14168

John is finished in this town.

15
#14169 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Why not ask Bill these questions, send him a PM on pinside - I don't understand why the several here asking questions, don't ask bill or Pinstasia directly - my understanding is that owners have a direct contact info to do so. If you don't have a $ in the game, why ask about the deal or Bill's profit projections?

Can we agree that secrets are part of what F'd this whole thing up in the first place? If one of Bill's goals is to get more people interested in these projects...transparency and trust are a must.

When there are secrets, people will fill in the blanks - sometimes right, sometimes wrong. Isn't it just better to have 100% correct info out there?

#14170 4 years ago

On second thought - I removed this post. It didn't add anything constructive to an already sensitive and unfortunate situation. For those interested it was an off topic post about the number of posts in this thread.

#14171 4 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

When emotion outpaces logic in a big decision, get the waterhose because someone is about to get burned.

That's marriage, isn't it? Love the magic girl..

-8
#14172 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

You may have missed it Mark, but Jpop was attempting to collect $$$ for new orders a month ago when he was already in negotiations with Pintasia to sell all IP rights. This shows clear intent to steal peoples money. He knew the project was dead for him but was trying to get more money.

I'll simply say... prove it.

#14173 4 years ago
#14174 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

I'll simply say... prove it.

I'm starting to think you're more of an enabler than you think you are .

#14175 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Why not ask Bill these questions, send him a PM on pinside - I don't understand why the several here asking questions, don't ask bill or Pinstasia directly - my understanding is that owners have a direct contact info to do so. If you don't have a $ in the game, why ask about the deal or Bill's profit projections?

Okay, I did.

As for why I'm asking, I'm not sure why I have to justify questions about pinball on a pinball forum, but fwiw, it's not to see the project fail. If you can point me to a question of mine that is "unfair" in this sense, by all means, and if you're right, I'll apologize. I'm not immune to being too persistent occasionally.

But I don't think that's what it is, at least not mostly. I think my questions are fair but simply bring up inconvenient truths which some would rather just put out of their mind.

#14176 4 years ago

I recommend no one humor JPop.

It would be great if everyone could get the game they paid for. Unless there is a whole lot of money left and a competent manufacturing manager, the possibility of "fool me twice" is more likely.

I don't think his intent was ever criminal, just delusional.

As a side note, can we stop telling people to drop the discussion? If someone is breaking pinside rules anyone and everyone can report the offender. There is no reason to make vague statements about pinsiders, or this topic being "Drama" "so lets just end it". If I wanted my Mom's opinion I would call her

"If you don't have anything nice to say...." - Mom

#14177 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Seems like a lot of people who have started picking up the project to help get it available for the show are taking the criticism very personally. Like the people who criticize the project are going to kill a wilting flower they are trying to bring back to life.
Pdxmonkey is the guy who coyly told us "there is a game, I've played it." He also knew ages ago that there were no working mechs on the thing, never mind all the other deficiencies. Nobody was claiming that Zidware had an empty garage and the cabinets and game were not real. The claim was that for all the promises that the game was 95% complete, there was "basically" no game and John's assertions otherwise were nonsense. That turned out to be true, and pdxmonkey knew it a looooong time ago.
So now, to criticize the project is supposed to be taboo, because it hurts the feelings of people who have put time into it for the past 3 weeks? Get over yourselves, people wanted honest assessments of what the game IS in its current form, not what it "will be" (a promise with no guarantees).
Currently it is apparently a bare-bones pre-alpha prototype that looks beautiful. Many of the mechanics, however, were dreamed up with functions in mind that John probably came to terms with as beyond his skill to complete. Most of those mechs, realistically, will have to be removed or simplified for the game to be viable. John probably had concepts of what would "be cool" and thought that he could be just like Tesla and sit in a lab and invent ways for the magnets to do all the cool stuff. He then found out at some point that he was not capable.
You can tell that John wanted to put in all the ideas he had for his previous games that got nixed by higher ups. I'm guessing smarter people than him made the decisions because they were impractical for reasons varying from BOM to complexity or fragility.
From what I am reading it seems like the absolute minimum BOM for this game is 10k each if everything went perfectly and things got simplified. A realistic BOM estimate is supposedly 16k. That means the real murphy's law BOM is likely more like 20k.
From the multiple pages of feedback here, I am seeing an absolute maximum retail price of 10k. Which means even at the best of conditions you're covering ONLY BOM. You start out at zero maximum, and potential losses are huge. People do not go into business to lose money. If this is your thought process, then you need to reconsider. Nobody wants to buy you your Magic Girl out of their pocket because they love pinball.
The point being, there is no business case for this project to ever complete successfully. That means the only way to make money on this is by taking money and not producing the machines, or at least not fully producing them (i.e. complete it with very low quality) We are seeing a lot of volunteers and vendors attaching themselves to this project because yes, they are nice people. They don't want to be criticized because they are doing a nice thing, and just trying to do their best for the community and these pretty machines and whatnot. However, you are hitching your wagon to a dead horse. And because it (the "project plan") does not make any sense whatsoever, people are asking you how you plan for that horse to pull the wagon.
Some people are taking these posts as attacks, but they are legitimate concerns on behalf of the people who are being taken for a ride. Nobody wants to cause the project to fail. Nobody is basking in the glory of another failed project because they want to watch the world burn. They simply want to bring you back to reality - MG is starting from scratch (mechanically) and has no ability to make any money. It is a beautiful cabinet and playfield. Everything else is going to have to be re-engineered, from the parts to the design layout. And there is no money to do this coming from anybody.

Well said.

11
#14178 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Seems like a lot of people who have started picking up the project to help get it available for the show are taking the criticism very personally. Like the people who criticize the project are going to kill a wilting flower they are trying to bring back to life.
Pdxmonkey is the guy who coyly told us "there is a game, I've played it." He also knew ages ago that there were no working mechs on the thing, never mind all the other deficiencies. Nobody was claiming that Zidware had an empty garage and the cabinets and game were not real. The claim was that for all the promises that the game was 95% complete, there was "basically" no game and John's assertions otherwise were nonsense. That turned out to be true, and pdxmonkey knew it a looooong time ago.
So now, to criticize the project is supposed to be taboo, because it hurts the feelings of people who have put time into it for the past 3 weeks? Get over yourselves, people wanted honest assessments of what the game IS in its current form, not what it "will be" (a promise with no guarantees).
Currently it is apparently a bare-bones pre-alpha prototype that looks beautiful. Many of the mechanics, however, were dreamed up with functions in mind that John probably came to terms with as beyond his skill to complete. Most of those mechs, realistically, will have to be removed or simplified for the game to be viable. John probably had concepts of what would "be cool" and thought that he could be just like Tesla and sit in a lab and invent ways for the magnets to do all the cool stuff. He then found out at some point that he was not capable.
You can tell that John wanted to put in all the ideas he had for his previous games that got nixed by higher ups. I'm guessing smarter people than him made the decisions because they were impractical for reasons varying from BOM to complexity or fragility.
From what I am reading it seems like the absolute minimum BOM for this game is 10k each if everything went perfectly and things got simplified. A realistic BOM estimate is supposedly 16k. That means the real murphy's law BOM is likely more like 20k.
From the multiple pages of feedback here, I am seeing an absolute maximum retail price of 10k. Which means even at the best of conditions you're covering ONLY BOM. You start out at zero maximum, and potential losses are huge. People do not go into business to lose money. If this is your thought process, then you need to reconsider. Nobody wants to buy you your Magic Girl out of their pocket because they love pinball.
The point being, there is no business case for this project to ever complete successfully. That means the only way to make money on this is by taking money and not producing the machines, or at least not fully producing them (i.e. complete it with very low quality) We are seeing a lot of volunteers and vendors attaching themselves to this project because yes, they are nice people. They don't want to be criticized because they are doing a nice thing, and just trying to do their best for the community and these pretty machines and whatnot. However, you are hitching your wagon to a dead horse. And because it (the "project plan") does not make any sense whatsoever, people are asking you how you plan for that horse to pull the wagon.
Some people are taking these posts as attacks, but they are legitimate concerns on behalf of the people who are being taken for a ride. Nobody wants to cause the project to fail. Nobody is basking in the glory of another failed project because they want to watch the world burn. They simply want to bring you back to reality - MG is starting from scratch (mechanically) and has no ability to make any money. It is a beautiful cabinet and playfield. Everything else is going to have to be re-engineered, from the parts to the design layout. And there is no money to do this coming from anybody.

I think you nailed it.

I've been wracking my brain trying to reconcile the crazy repetitive scandals that seem to happen around here with regularity, and I remember there being a psychological explanation for this type of behavior: The Dunning-Kruger Effect.

You gotta wonder why, over and over, people with no real skill or experience producing machines are so convinced they can do it? This is apparently a pretty common thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

"The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude. Conversely, highly skilled individuals tend to underestimate their relative competence, erroneously assuming that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others."

"As David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University conclude: 'The miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others.'"

Pretty interesting reading... Clearly JPop was an example of the low-end of the DK-effect. But there are also examples of highly-skilled people expecting others to match their level of productivity and not realizing that's not always practical.

Another interesting thing about this community is how many people have trouble separating their sense of self, from their beliefs. If someone criticizes something they are into, they take it personally. I think this is a source for a lot of unintended conflict in general around here. I don't know exactly how to address or fix it, but I guess being aware of this minefield may help.

#14179 4 years ago
Quoted from Revo76:

I have send him, even through other people.
But he still has not replied or send me any message through other ways.
I have been supporting and doing things for John for more then two years in several ways.
Funny to hardly see anybody reacting when pictures are placed of some of the models I made for him.
No one asking me how many and how far they are.
Shall i just delete it all and let someone else start from scratch?

Are we supposed to be begging you to tell us everything? If you have something to say or share.. just do it. Stop acting like we should all come begging for some juicy stuff. You want to play Mr Secret and then are hot because no one recognizes your contribution? We aren't mind readers and we've already seen how John kept his contributors silo'd.

#14180 4 years ago

I think all the pro-censorship advocates are saying what amounts to this:

If you don't have any skin in the game you shouldn't say anything, and if you don't have a mouth full of praise for the very rough (poor) prototype game you should not say anything.

However, this leads to a lot of patting each other on the back and saying how great everything is (when it's not really) and I'd like to add that if there were no critics or people asking hard questions 7 months ago, if everyone was to follow that advice (only skin in the game, don't criticize the game) than 7 months ago when John brought empty cabinets to the Expo and when PDXmonkey said he'd played the games (etc..) than we would still congratulating John for his great effort. Don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers. Everything is great John.

Is that what all the pro-censorship people want to hear?

I have yet to hear one person say that was a succesful showing, meaning that it presented well or it played well. Yet when I say that was not a good showing of the game people jump all over me, just because I said what I saw (in the videos) and read from people that were there that said the game was very beta and not working well at all.

I have yet to hear one persons say they would buy one for $16k based on that showing, I am talking about new money, the guys with no skin in the game, if they were so overly excited about this pin at $16k I would expect to see some great posts about how well the game presented at the show.

#14181 4 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

The only way that any of these games SHOULD be made is if it can be done without buyers adding one more dime.

Zidware is the only one that SHOULD owe 19 customers a game. If not Zidware, where is this money supposed to come from? Pintasia has the only proposal on the table to do so at the expense of RAZA and AIW customers, along with new buyers. SHOULD and reality are two entirely different things.

#14182 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I think all the pro-censorship advocates are saying what amounts to this:
If you don't have any skin in the game you shouldn't say anything, and if you don't have a mouth full of praise for the very rough (poor) prototype game you should not say anything.
However, this leads to a lot of patting each other on the back and saying how great everything is (when it's not really) and I'd like to add that if there were no critics or people asking hard questions 7 months ago, if everyone was to follow that advice (only skin in the game, don't criticize the game) than 7 months ago when John brought empty cabinets to the Expo and when PDXmonkey said he'd played the games (etc..) than we would still congratulating John for his great effort. Don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers. Everything is great John.
Is that what all the pro-censorship people want to hear?

Pinside is totally censored. Look how fast the mods jumped on the guy who suggested suing the distributors

#14183 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Yes. Work on the machine continues. It is presently on its way or most probably already arrived at another volunteers location. It did not go with Bill and these ridiculous conspiracy theories really need to end.

Whoa, when was this announced? They've been claiming for weeks that it was being borrowed only for the show and would be returned.

I guess the conspiracy theorists and script writers I've been chuckling at for weeks:

Quoted from YKpinballer:

It is already headed to NW so it will be very close to Brandes' home of Vancouver. Maybe he'll just take his boat down to the show and... you know... boat back. With some cargo. :p

Quoted from TOK:

You should steal it and head to Mexico. This tale needs more twists and turns!

Quoted from emkay:

still think the mexico tangent is a good next move & would totally volunteer to be the carjacker. at the end of every colossal failure (in my experience), somebody always says something along the lines of, "there should be a book/movie/etc written about this..." this isn't over until there's a Made-for-TV/after-school special.

might not have been as far fetched after all

#14184 4 years ago

So my question seems plausible.

#14185 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

I think you nailed it.
I've been wracking my brain trying to reconcile the crazy repetitive scandals that seem to happen around here with regularity, and I remember there being a psychological explanation for this type of behavior: The Dunning-Kruger Effect.
You gotta wonder why, over and over, people with no real skill or experience producing machines are so convinced they can do it? This is apparently a pretty common thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
"The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude. Conversely, highly skilled individuals tend to underestimate their relative competence, erroneously assuming that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others."
"As David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University conclude: 'The miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others.'"
Pretty interesting reading... Clearly JPop was an example of the low-end of the DK-effect. But there are also examples of highly-skilled people expecting others to match their level of productivity and not realizing that's not always practical.
Another interesting thing about this community is how many people have trouble separating their sense of self, from their beliefs. If someone criticizes something they are into, they take it personally. I think this is a source for a lot of unintended conflict in general around here. I don't know exactly how to address or fix it, but I guess being aware of this minefield may help.

Wait a second...aren't you ironically jumping to conclusions outside of your area of expertise?

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/lessons-from-dunning-kruger/

14
#14186 4 years ago

I hope for the best, but to be blunt for a moment, Pintasia is likely only a brief swansong of hope that will soon expire. Be warned.

I'm not a hater though, heck I put $20k on the line for Jpop's fantasies. Here's hoping...

But regardless of the amount of hope, I hope no-one (customers) puts another dime down for this project. Let's see what happens in the next few weeks, then decide. I have my own views of where this will go, but I hope to be wrong.

#14187 4 years ago
Quoted from Crazybanana:

Pinside is totally censored. Look how fast the mods jumped on the guy who suggested suing the distributors

That was a bit concerning actually in regards to the direction and bias of the forum

19
#14188 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

I'll simply say... prove it.

here you go...
and this is not the only person to have email evidence of Jpop attempting to collect more money when he was already in discussions of selling IP

Quoted from rotordave:

I have been contacted by another Pinsider as a follow up from my previous post about JPop selling games while insolvent.
Again, his identity is kept confidential by myself, in good faith.
This is exactly what he sent me.
<paste>
Not wanting to add flames to the fire, but I emailed John on March 12, 2015
and asked him if any slots were available on all 3 games. John mailed me a
packet with promo artwork, brochures, and purchase agreements for RAZA and
AIW. I emailed him and asked him about MG, and he apologized and said he
has one for me on hold. I received that email March 19, 2015. He followed
up on March 20, 2015 and asked if I needed more info on MG. I debated but
ultimately decided not to purchase and walked away. I had 2 other friends
who did the same thing as me at the exact time, and all of us were promised
a slot for all 3 games. I have the emails if it helps. Just thought I would
let you know.
<end>
FWIW
Thanks to the Pinsider involved for contacting me.
rd.

#14190 4 years ago

Quotes About Moving On 0079-81 (8).jpg

#14191 4 years ago

Lots has happened since the JPop letter was first sent. I kind of forgot some of the things that were said in that letter, so I thought I'd read it again. This was really handled pretty badly. Also, no way did JPop write this letter. He approved it and signed it, but I seriously doubt that he wrote it. Lots of head slappers in this letter:

Dear William,

It is with great excitement, determination and love for pinball that has led me to pursue and find a possible
solution that can be announced to you today. I want to take this opportunity to thank each and every one
of you who believed in the magical designs that have been created. I acknowledge and appreciate the
faith you have in placing deposits with Zidware, Inc. (“Zidware”) to deliver to you incredible machines that
take pinball to another level. Thank you for your patience and support …this well-deserved update will
give you a good idea of where we have been and where we are headed in the future.

First and foremost, my apologies for not being a better businessman. In the past, great success was
accomplished by focusing on what I do best… design and artistic direction of games. The business
mechanics were left to the executives at companies such as Williams and Bally. I did not realize what it
entails to run a company and get a machine designed and produced from start to finish. At the rate that I
have been going, bankruptcy would be inevitable absent some type of corrective action. Zidware no
longer has the ability to get Magic Girl™ (“MG”) into production let alone Retro Atomic Zombie
Adventureland™ (“RAZA”) and Alice in Wonderland The Pinball™ (“AIW”). A copy of current financials will
be available evidencing the impossible predicament Zidware currently faces.
Further, the delivery of
machines to my customers who have placed orders and provided deposits has always been my primary
concern and a responsibility that I take very seriously.

Therefore, I have sought out a solution to bring these games into production and to benefit all purchasers
who have continued to believe in me. Apologies for the lack of communication, however it was best to
find a workable solution first, rather than to string everyone along on false hopes. At this point I have a
plan in place and therefore am taking this opportunity to share it with you. My hope is that with this solid
plan, you, as a purchaser, will be supportive of this endeavor and remain patient and work with this plan
to achieve the desired goal of producing MG, RAZA and AIW machines.

What is the plan and how will it help the purchasers of Zidware products?

In a call for help, one of my customers, a businessman specializing in the restructuring of companies,
realized that there was no way Zidware could get this project over the finish line and into production. He
was saddened by the fact that many would suffer a loss and it would be a black eye for the pinball
industry and my reputation.

Over the last month or so, this individual and his associates have done extensive due diligence on
Zidware to determine the best plan of action. They have assembled a team of professionals capable in
bringing pinball machines to production under a new, unrelated company. I have granted this new
company (“Licensee”) an exclusive license for MG, RAZA and AIW. They will then be able to take MG
from its current state to the point of production, along with potential orders for RAZA and AIW. Once
these machines are produced, the Licensee plans to continue and grow to become an industry leader in
creative unique pinball design.

What can you expect next?

The Licensee is now underway to complete a master prototype Magic Girl™. An announcement will be
made as to when this will be, however the goal is to have it ready in time to unveil at an upcoming show.
From this point forward, information and progress will be provided by the Licensee as Zidware is no
longer in control.

This group is currently in the process of negotiating with proven known quality manufacturers to get the
games produced. As soon as this is contracted, purchasers will be notified and given a forecast of the
timeline to complete development as well as release dates for final product. As it stands today, the
anticipated timeframe until production of MG is approximately 2 years or sooner.

As for the other 2 games, art work will be under the Licensee’s direction and prototypes will be forthcoming. I have agreed to independently consult with the Licensee for continuity to complete the pinball designs for all 3 games. The timeframe until production of RAZA and AIW product is 2 to 3 years post MG production.

I encourage fellow Pinheads to allow this team to help make these games come to life. The Licensee has already made significant investment in both time and money to get where we are today. They have acquired the licenses for these games not motivated by profit, but to make the designs a reality and forge a viable path for production of these products to Zidware customers. The only other alternative is thatZidware would be forced to file for bankruptcy, resulting in virtually nothing to the purchasers and none of the games that we have worked on all these years will ever be produced.

We need patience, positive input and support from you and all of Zidware’s customers. Once each purchaser has responded back with positive intentions, the Licensee will be formally announced and be able to continue to move forward. However if there are any clarification questions regarding this letter oragreement, please do not contact the attorneys directly, instead you may send an email to: Magic Girl Info <magicgirl.raza.aiw@gmail.com>. The Licensee has already indicated that they will be opening the doors to share the progress with customers and welcoming everyone with open arms!

To be clear, there will not be any refunds as Zidware lacks the cash reserves necessary to return any customer deposits. The Licensee is here to create and build pinball machines and it is not responsible for Zidware’s liabilities. Nonetheless, working together, the Licensee will have the ability to produce machines and Zidware customers will be provided credits for deposits made. We are very lucky that the Licensee started down this path to help the pinball community by trying to rectify this situation.

This is what we need in order for the Licensee to move forward, please take advantage of this opportunity and complete the attached agreement prepared by the attorney for the Licensee. This is what is required from you in the attached agreement in order for the plan to succeed:

1) Confirmation of your intent to complete the purchase of the ordered item(s) by executing and returning the attached agreement so that the Licensee does not expend resources for customers who may not wish to complete their order.

a. Magic Girl™ – original purchasers. The Licensee is already in talks with potential manufacturers to create a Magic Girl™–Collector’s Edition, limited to only 199 worldwide for those who have already purchased or provided deposits. This is first come first serve as we will close off as soon as we reach 199 orders. Zidware deposits will be converted to credits dollar for dollar.

b. RAZA or AIW purchasers. For those who have placed a deposit on RAZA or AIW, the Licensee is allowing these purchasers to convert their deposits to credits towards:

i. Magic Girl™–Collector’s Edition ($15,995) – Limited to only 199 worldwide, this is first come first serve as we will close off as soon as we reach 199 orders. Zidware deposits will be converted dollar for dollar, 1 (eg. $6,500 deposit = $6,500 credits).

ii. Magic Girl™-Classic (TBD estimated at between $9,995 to $11,995) – We are offering a new edition of Magic Girl™ with all of the same functionality and quality, since the final product is yet to be finalized and we don’t have actual BOM, we can only provide the price range. Any customers interested in this option will have opportunity to confirm their purchase at time of release of actual price. Zidware deposits will be converted 1:2 (eg. $6,500 deposit = $3,250 credits) for this option.

Once you take delivery of your machine, you have an asset in hand and the ability to keep it or sell it for cash. You will also have the ability to sell your position. Should you wish to wait for the possible creation of a RAZA or AIW, that option is also available.

2) Agreement that you will not bring any action for money damages or specific performance against Zidware, the Licensee, the manufacturer, or any of their directors, officers or members during the earlier of:

(i) delivery of the product or
(ii) 4 years

This is what we need to move forward; we ask your cooperation to support us and allow Zidware to get the Licensee what is needed at this time. This is the only plan that will possibly get these machines produced. It is time sensitive as we need to move quickly or I will have no choice but to pursue a chapter 7 bankruptcy filing resulting in the liquidation of Zidware without delivery of any of the games and virtually no cash to Zidware customers.

This plan is for you, the Pinheads that want something that is a true work of art, quality built that can be treasured for years to come. I have now found the right business team that is dedicated to try to get my work to the finish line and into production. Help me to help you get what you came to Zidware for…a pinball machine that you will be very proud of to have in your collection!

To Our Success!

Best Personal Regards,
ZIDWARE, INC.
John Popadiuk
President
Enclosure

#14192 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Lots has happened since the JPop letter was first sent. I kind of forgot some of the things that were said in that letter, so I thought I'd read it again. This was really handled pretty badly. Also, no way did JPop write this letter. He approved it and signed it, but I seriously doubt that he wrote it. Lots of head slappers in this letter:
Dear William,
It is with great excitement, determination and love for pinball that has led me to pursue and find a possible
solution that can be announced to you today. I want to take this opportunity to thank each and every one
of you who believed in the magical designs that have been created. I acknowledge and appreciate the
faith you have in placing deposits with Zidware, Inc. (“Zidware”) to deliver to you incredible machines that
take pinball to another level. Thank you for your patience and support …this well-deserved update will
give you a good idea of where we have been and where we are headed in the future.
First and foremost, my apologies for not being a better businessman. In the past, great success was
accomplished by focusing on what I do best… design and artistic direction of games. The business
mechanics were left to the executives at companies such as Williams and Bally. I did not realize what it
entails to run a company and get a machine designed and produced from start to finish. At the rate that I
have been going, bankruptcy would be inevitable absent some type of corrective action. Zidware no
longer has the ability to get Magic Girl™ (“MG”) into production let alone Retro Atomic Zombie
Adventureland™ (“RAZA”) and Alice in Wonderland The Pinball™ (“AIW”). A copy of current financials will
be available evidencing the impossible predicament Zidware currently faces. Further, the delivery of
machines to my customers who have placed orders and provided deposits has always been my primary
concern and a responsibility that I take very seriously.
Therefore, I have sought out a solution to bring these games into production and to benefit all purchasers
who have continued to believe in me. Apologies for the lack of communication, however it was best to
find a workable solution first, rather than to string everyone along on false hopes. At this point I have a
plan in place and therefore am taking this opportunity to share it with you. My hope is that with this solid
plan, you, as a purchaser, will be supportive of this endeavor and remain patient and work with this plan
to achieve the desired goal of producing MG, RAZA and AIW machines.
What is the plan and how will it help the purchasers of Zidware products?
In a call for help, one of my customers, a businessman specializing in the restructuring of companies,
realized that there was no way Zidware could get this project over the finish line and into production. He
was saddened by the fact that many would suffer a loss and it would be a black eye for the pinball
industry and my reputation.
Over the last month or so, this individual and his associates have done extensive due diligence on
Zidware to determine the best plan of action. They have assembled a team of professionals capable in
bringing pinball machines to production under a new, unrelated company. I have granted this new
company (“Licensee”) an exclusive license for MG, RAZA and AIW. They will then be able to take MG
from its current state to the point of production, along with potential orders for RAZA and AIW. Once
these machines are produced, the Licensee plans to continue and grow to become an industry leader in
creative unique pinball design.
What can you expect next?
The Licensee is now underway to complete a master prototype Magic Girl™. An announcement will be
made as to when this will be, however the goal is to have it ready in time to unveil at an upcoming show.
From this point forward, information and progress will be provided by the Licensee as Zidware is no
longer in control.
This group is currently in the process of negotiating with proven known quality manufacturers to get the
games produced. As soon as this is contracted, purchasers will be notified and given a forecast of the
timeline to complete development as well as release dates for final product. As it stands today, the
anticipated timeframe until production of MG is approximately 2 years or sooner.
As for the other 2 games, art work will be under the Licensee’s direction and prototypes will be
forthcoming. I have agreed to independently consult with the Licensee for continuity to complete the
pinball designs for all 3 games. The timeframe until production of RAZA and AIW product is 2 to 3 years
post MG production.
I encourage fellow Pinheads to allow this team to help make these games come to life. The Licensee has
already made significant investment in both time and money to get where we are today. They have
acquired the licenses for these games not motivated by profit, but to make the designs a reality and forge
a viable path for production of these products to Zidware customers. The only other alternative is that
Zidware would be forced to file for bankruptcy, resulting in virtually nothing to the purchasers and none of
the games that we have worked on all these years will ever be produced.
We need patience, positive input and support from you and all of Zidware’s customers. Once each
purchaser has responded back with positive intentions, the Licensee will be formally announced and be
able to continue to move forward. However if there are any clarification questions regarding this letter or
agreement, please do not contact the attorneys directly, instead you may send an email to: Magic Girl
Info <magicgirl.raza.aiw@gmail.com>. The Licensee has already indicated that they will be opening the
doors to share the progress with customers and welcoming everyone with open arms!
To be clear, there will not be any refunds as Zidware lacks the cash reserves necessary to return any
customer deposits. The Licensee is here to create and build pinball machines and it is not responsible for
Zidware’s liabilities. Nonetheless, working together, the Licensee will have the ability to produce
machines and Zidware customers will be provided credits for deposits made. We are very lucky that the
Licensee started down this path to help the pinball community by trying to rectify this situation.
This is what we need in order for the Licensee to move forward, please take advantage of this opportunity
and complete the attached agreement prepared by the attorney for the Licensee. This is what is required
from you in the attached agreement in order for the plan to succeed:
1) Confirmation of your intent to complete the purchase of the ordered item(s) by executing and
returning the attached agreement so that the Licensee does not expend resources for customers
who may not wish to complete their order.
a. Magic Girl™ – original purchasers. The Licensee is already in talks with potential
manufacturers to create a Magic Girl™–Collector’s Edition, limited to only 199 worldwide
for those who have already purchased or provided deposits. This is first come first serve
as we will close off as soon as we reach 199 orders. Zidware deposits will be converted
to credits dollar for dollar.
b. RAZA or AIW purchasers. For those who have placed a deposit on RAZA or AIW, the
Licensee is allowing these purchasers to convert their deposits to credits towards:
i. Magic Girl™–Collector’s Edition ($15,995) – Limited to only 199 worldwide,
this is first come first serve as we will close off as soon as we reach 199 orders.
Zidware deposits will be converted dollar for dollar, 1 (eg. $6,500 deposit =
$6,500 credits).
ii. Magic Girl™-Classic (TBD estimated at between $9,995 to $11,995) – We are
offering a new edition of Magic Girl™ with all of the same functionality and
quality, since the final product is yet to be finalized and we don’t have actual
BOM, we can only provide the price range. Any customers interested in this
option will have opportunity to confirm their purchase at time of release of actual
price. Zidware deposits will be converted 1:2 (eg. $6,500 deposit = $3,250
credits) for this option.
Once you take delivery of your machine, you have an asset in hand and the ability to keep it or sell it
for cash. You will also have the ability to sell your position. Should you wish to wait for the possible
creation of a RAZA or AIW, that option is also available.
2) Agreement that you will not bring any action for money damages or specific performance against
Zidware, the Licensee, the manufacturer, or any of their directors, officers or members during the
earlier of:
(i) delivery of the product or
(ii) 4 years
This is what we need to move forward; we ask your cooperation to support us and allow Zidware to get
the Licensee what is needed at this time. This is the only plan that will possibly get these machines
produced. It is time sensitive as we need to move quickly or I will have no choice but to pursue a chapter
7 bankruptcy filing resulting in the liquidation of Zidware without delivery of any of the games and virtually
no cash to Zidware customers.
This plan is for you, the Pinheads that want something that is a true work of art, quality built that can be
treasured for years to come. I have now found the right business team that is dedicated to try to get my
work to the finish line and into production. Help me to help you get what you came to Zidware for…a
pinball machine that you will be very proud of to have in your collection!
To Our Success!
Best Personal Regards,
ZIDWARE, INC.
John Popadiuk
President
Enclosure

12
#14193 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Wow....I REALLY don't like that the OP can't close down a Thread when asked. I thought that was the rule.

Quoted from spfxted:

But I thought that was the OP choice. (that's what was told to me)

This was absolutely never a rule. Closing a thread is 100% discretionary. I do not doubt that you may have heard differently (not all mods are 100% up on the rules, I know I still get things wrong from time to time).

Generally, we honor the request of an OP in a for sale thread to close down the discussion. We also frequently close down threads that are in some case specific way personal in nature to the OP if requested.

This thread will not be closed at this time regardless of the request of OP. Closing this thread would just cause spill over. The thread has been "on fire" for weeks, the discussion is not over.

34
#14194 4 years ago

By the way:

To those who feel a need (for whatever reason) to announce they are leaving/draining the thread, please try and restrain yourself from the public disclosure.

This thread is long enough. We honestly don't need posts from people announcing they are draining the thread. Just drain the thread and move on.

Thank you.

#14195 4 years ago

@Bill, Mr68 & FB group-

I get the idea of choosing the MG from John to finish since it was supposedly 95% done. Now that it is being realized that the game isn't at 95% and will require design changes with possibly features being dropped, does that change anything?
It's been said that RAZA is close to the same stage as MG and not as complex, so if it requires less design changes and is without as many incomplete complex parts, I wonder if RAZA is actually further ahead. Can you have a volunteer or somebody show us RAZA in whatever state it is and if possible- why not assess that game too? If anything, I think some of us would like to at least see the game...
Totally don't mean this to be taken as negative but there are three horses in the stable, why not have a hard look at all of them?

#14196 4 years ago
images.jpg
-18
#14197 4 years ago

I don't feel like reading all this but what's all about ? Sorry newbie and lazy lol

-3
#14198 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

here you go...
and this is not the only person to have email evidence of Jpop attempting to collect more money when he was already in discussions of selling IP

Actually this really IS the only unsubstantiated claim and could be complete BS designed to give you even more drama to rant about...

The guy that wrote it probably hoped a whole bunch of people would then run with it... unfortunately he only got you.

It may or may not be true but this little second-hand note *proves* absolutely nothing.

#14199 4 years ago
Quoted from Lauro0521:

I don't feel like reading all this but what's all about ? Sorry newbie and lazy lol

not the best thread for lazy newbs
start here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread……………mg-raza-and-aiw…

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