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(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

6 years ago



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There are 24341 posts in this topic. You are on page 283 of 487.
#14101 5 years ago
Quoted from Revo76:

3 playfields.jpg
And there were 3 printed playfields with clearcoat on them......(look at the date)
Why the use of the one with art-foil on it ??

That photo from Sept 13, 2013 with the 3 printed and cleared playfields really sums up the poor choices made all along this. Such waste, of both time and money, for a project that should have had a literal shoe string budget.

-1
#14102 5 years ago

I truly believe John is not a thief,but call him what you want,he still went to shows with empty cabs and a KISS proto game,that nobody asked or paid for?
When he took my pre order for AIW,he knew he was never gonna build it??
From pinball hero...to zero......

12
#14103 5 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

Yea, on this forum that's impossible to enforce though. I assume thats why there is a private facebook group..

That's exactly why the owners group was formed on Facebook. We needed a reasonable environment away from the Pinside noise to strategize. And even though members will disagree with one another we don't have to sift through paranoid speculation or non-owners yelling. Or the redundancy of drive by commentators.

And despite Iceman's obsession in personally discrediting me at every chance, he flat out lied when he recently said the group has failed. I will repeat that for clarity, Iceman lied.

The group is doing very well and has grown in population each week. Bill Brandes of Pintasia is there and so are vendors that worked with Jflop. We are getting as complete and accurate picture as possible and we can discuss things in a rational manner. Good things are happening there and I expect that to continue.

If you're a Popadiuk victim I encourage you to join us. Strength in numbers.

Send me a private message. I will instruct you on sending proof and how to proceed.

#14104 5 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

Hey...dude...building a KISS pinball with MY money,in the time you should build MY f@cking pinball,that is disgusting!

Stupid and a bad business decision? Yea. Disgusting and human filth.. I'd relegate those terms for stronger crimes than being an inept businessman.

25
#14105 5 years ago

Project boils down to the following:

1) How much is done - what value was obtained from the million bucks spent?
2) How much has to be re-done - what value will be LOST from the money spent?
3) How much is left to do - what value was not achieved from the money spent and has to be put back in?
4) How much will that cost - is it even worth it to continue?
5) How long will that take - how patient are the buyers after waiting 4 years?
6) How much will the BOM be - can it ever achieve a profit?
7) How many games can even be sold at 10k - less than 500 I guarantee that, even if it were Elvira and the Muppets Fight Jaws - Soundtrack by Iron Maiden.

Then ask yourself "how many CV on steroids games can be sold at 10k?" and you're at probably LESS than John's original total sales (the bulk of games, 125 RAZA were sold with a very different theme and art direction)

If you profit 1k per game then you need to sell 1000 games at 10k to "pay back / make whole" the original buyers.

Toss aside emotion, and the math doesn't paint a pretty picture.

Sadly, Skit-B asking for $1500 more per buyer to obtain a license and pay for labor would have made a whole lot more sense.

#14106 5 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

That's exactly why the owners group was formed on Facebook. We needed a reasonable environment away from the Pinside noise to strategize. And even though members will disagree with one another we don't have to sift through paranoid speculation or non-owners yelling. Or the redundancy of drive by commentators.

Unfortunately, that group also appears to be devoid of people who saw what you guys didn't see. I think the last thing the buyers need, is to be in another "reality distortion sphere."

If you're in that group communicating with Bill, the first thing y'all should do is ask to see the exact contract between Pintasia and Zidware. Not an "outline." The exact deal. Everything else spawns from that arrangement. To proceed without knowing its exact details doesn't seem prudent.

#14107 5 years ago

Unfortunately everyone involved in this mess will most likely face litigation. Distributors , John etc anyone who hands on your money.

#14108 5 years ago
Quoted from dgpinball:

just wanted to see if anything good could be made out of this very bad situation, he was trying to focus on the positive, that there was at least something there to build on

This pretty much sums up the second effort. "Is there anyway to salvage this prior work?" Focusing on that alone really filters out so much of the anger and noise.

#14109 5 years ago

Holy crap, a few of you guys need to stop repeating yourself. And maybe cut back on the drinking too.

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#14110 5 years ago

Holy crap, a few of you guys need to stop repeating yourself. And maybe cut back on the drinking too.

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16
#14111 5 years ago

See how annoying it is?

#14112 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

Unfortunately, that group also appears to be devoid of people who saw what you guys didn't see."

On what do you base this? Please state your proof. Or is this more Pinside "facts"

10
#14113 5 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

This is between Pintasia and Zidware and it is not my place to speak for them.
And while I have no idea if this is actually how it worked, from a purely logical perspective, if I buy an IP from a company, I own that IP. Whether that company was heathy or about to go into bankruptcy is not relevant at that point. When I go to Walmart to buy something I don't investigate whether or not the company that supplied the inventory was paid. I simply buy what they have. A company that is in trouble can sell assets to pay its debts. Me buying that IP gives some cash for that company to pay its debts. Whether it did this with the money or continued to mismanage that money and pissed it away is also not relevant (to me as a buyer of the IP). But once I own the IP, I own it. I don't need to pay anyone that was hired by the party that sold it to me anything.

But two things here...
1) they didn't buy the IP - they licensed it. Right to use, not ownership.
2) "I bought it, I own it, end of story" doesn't apply when the deal is done in a unscrupulous way. Legally (and not just morally) there are limits and processes here to ensure a company or someone does not not move assets out of the company in a way that doesn't serve the company's or creditor's interest. For instance, you can't just sell everything to yourself or another entity for a $1 to move the value out of the company to exclude it from liquidation or to be self-serving.

#14114 5 years ago

This whole thread in nothing but the same thing over and over lol

#14115 5 years ago

my question is where is MG right now? Is it headed back to JPOP's shop, or Bill's den for "safe keeping"? Maybe you could ask about the current logistics of the game. The only thing that really makes sense is to get it to the programmer or the development engineer that is supposed to finish the game's mechanics. Does anyone even know where the actual MG prototype #1 is going?

#14116 5 years ago
Quoted from Crazybanana:

Does anyone even know where the actual MG prototype #1 is going?

Yes. Work on the machine continues. It is presently on its way or most probably already arrived at another volunteers location. It did not go with Bill and these ridiculous conspiracy theories really need to end.

18
#14117 5 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Just got home from the show and have a few comments on the game.

Thanks man, easily one of the most useful posts since the game was revealed. Lot of really helpful context.

Personally, I appreciate all the effort people went through to bring the game to the show. Obviously it's still really rough, and maybe more so than we were led to believe, and I understand the frustration that comes with that.

But at the end of the day we finally got to see something. Unfinished, raw, and maybe ridiculous in many ways, but it was a pinball. And that's what I'm ultimately here to read about and talk about. I'd personally love to see less legal advice from people who aren't actually lawyers, and more talking about the game. Will it ever actually get built? I dunno. Maybe the will and ways exist to at least get a more finished prototype done, and we can at least see the vision for the game functioning better. I'd like that.

I've never felt that "non-owners" should just be quiet. But if you didn't actually lose any money to John maybe it's time to dial back the emotional response just a little. The wheels are in motion. He's being sued. No one is sending him money. He's a jerk. We all get it. No need to keep beating the horse. It's just noise now.

If you're involved with Pintasia in any way, even just as a volunteer who's trying to help out, then please do keep posting updates, even with the drama. And if it all fails to produce games for everyone, well, we know who's fault that is. I think the odds are long, but if people are crazy enough to try then I wish them nothing but good luck.

Also, thank you to the mods for stepping in and trying to reduce the toxic back and forth, it's appreciated. Let's try and remember that we're all on the same side here, fans of pinball.

#14118 5 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Just got home from the show and have a few comments on the game.
The artwork is the best I've ever seen in pinball from the playfield to the cabinet. The lighting looked ok in person with the lights on and doesn't look so trashy as it looks in the photos.

My main takeaway about the appearance was, "Man, if Mark was alone with this thing for a few hours it'd be the best looking pin in history", well I mean apart from the obvious "Wow, if Circus Voltaire wasn't so fucking ugly it'd look like Magic Girl". I half hoped you'd have it tricked out by the time I left.

No such luck. :-/

#14119 5 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

"shady past"? Actually, it's shady *present*. Look at the dates on the videos posted regarding the DFRF Enterprises "IPO". It was only about a month ago. This isn't something that went down five or ten years ago, but last month.
I'm honestly perplexed why these revelations have not caused more of a shock here. Is it because people are so desperate to see a game? Is it because after all the failed reveals, lies, etc., one more lie is no big deal?
http://dfrfenterprisesctba.blogspot.com/2015/05/canada-manager-sabrina-wei-entrevista.html
http://www.bcsc.bc.ca/News/News_Releases/2015/39_Investor_Alert__BCSC_issues_warning_about_DFRF_Enterprises_LLC__DFRF_Enterprises_Ltd__and_Daniel_Fernandez_Rojo_Filho/

Haven't been on for the weekend, so am a bit behind. However I have to agree with this post, it's like if somebody walked into their house and caught someone looting the place but they were so busy arguing with their wife they just completely ignored him while he slowly slipped out the front door. That is how I see Bill Brandes exiting this project.

#14120 5 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

And while I have no idea if this is actually how it worked, from a purely logical perspective, if I buy an IP from a company, I own that IP. Whether that company was heathy or about to go into bankruptcy is not relevant at that point.

lol

#14121 5 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

John Popadiuk has assets. There is money left. He is still soliciting victims as we speak. He got paid for the licensing deal. He knows he is not making the games and is still taking in money from unsuspecting marks. IMHO that is fraud , but ymmv . He is trying to smoke screen victims and the community to avoid consequences. The very best option for this victim is to cut through the BS speculation with a lawsuit. Thats the only clear path to recovery of anything.
Continuing to say John has no money does not make it true. Continuing over and over to say John is a nice guy does not help anyone. Saying John is just a doofus might be more than speculation, he may have people here actually discouraging others from filing suit.
The path forward is clear.

Agree

-2
#14122 5 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Yes. Work on the machine continues. It is presently on its way or most probably already arrived at another volunteers location. It did not go with Bill and these ridiculous conspiracy theories really need to end.

That machine is property of a company filing for bankruptcy and should not be on loan to anyone.

#14123 5 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

If you profit 1k per game then you need to sell 1000 games at 10k to "pay back / make whole" the original buyers.

Not to mention whatever debts are owed to existing vendors that would need to be caught up (I'm guessing) if they are going to pick up from where they left off.

#14124 5 years ago

Does anyone know how the vacuum was intended to be used?

20
#14125 5 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Does anyone know how the vacuum was intended to be used?

To suck money out of more unsuspecting pinheads

#14126 5 years ago

Its getting old that most people with time/money in the game are promoting this game to get finished at all costs and some people don't want this game to get finished at all. I don't have any skin in the game but as far as Pintasia's plan goes they need more people with skin in the game. Some people are never going to buy without looking objectively and scrutinizing the situation. We already know where it got the people invested at this point. Someone just stated that this game went to another volunteers place for more work. Is this the plan going forward - just to have volunteers work on the project?

#14127 5 years ago

Anyone taking odds on how long before that 1 prototype "disappears"?

#14128 5 years ago
Quoted from cranie:

Anyone taking odds on how long before that 1 prototype "disappears"?

With this much scrutiny and existing litigation someone would have to be crazy to lose the prototype (or have it stolen or destroyed while in their care). I just don't see any of the volunteers working on the project doing such a thing.

Whew, there is some negativity and suspicion here with this project. I get it...but wow.

#14129 5 years ago
Quoted from cranie:

Anyone taking odds on how long before that 1 prototype "disappears"?

I think it's in FAR FAR better hands with the folks here that are volunteering their time than if it was sent back to Jpop.

The question is, if jpop still owns it (which it seems he does), what happens if he demands it back?

My questions about pintasia aside, I'd still consider him a better steward of the game.

#14130 5 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

On what do you base this? Please state your proof. Or is this more Pinside "facts"

Approximately 6 messages earlier, #14106, a guy named, Mr68 made the following statement:

"That's exactly why the owners group was formed on Facebook. "

Therefore it seems reasonable to conclude:

1. The group consists primarily of "owners"
2. "Owners" are people who pre-paid for the game(s)
3. People who pre-paid for the games thought the games were going to be made, and they were going to get a game in accordance with what they were promised
4. That turned out to not be true.
5. The decision to pre-pay and support a guy who never realistically had the means to deliver what he promised was ill-conceived.
6. Lots of people suspected this would happen, but the owners circled their wagons and didn't listen to anybody but themselves.

The fact that you even call the people, "owners" is indicative of a fundamental continued misunderstanding of the situation you all are in.

You're not "owners" of anything. What do you own? What did you buy? Where is it? You're still talking like there's something of yours somewhere, when there isn't. You all are victims, not owners.

When you get machines made and delivered, then you are "owners."

No disrespect. I'm just suggesting, you all might benefit from less circling of the wagons and more "listening to the noise."

The reason this situation went on for 3-4 years is because it was all "in private groups." If there were more transparency there's no doubt a lot less people would have lost money, and once again, you're suggesting that you all move back into the shadows to continue to find a solution?

#14131 5 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Stupid and a bad business decision? Yea. Disgusting and human filth.. I'd relegate those terms for stronger crimes than being an inept businessman.

Revisiting the KISS thread is amusing and sad. Plenty of

"He did this on his own time, for a dying friend!!!! I see nothing wrong with it and certainly doubt resources or time was diverted from Magic Girl!"

As an aside, this thread surely has achieved some kind of internet forum record for use of the phrase "skin in the game."

#14132 5 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

y passing away the last few days?"..

A family member. Really nobody on pinside's business. Drop it.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#14133 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

With this much scrutiny and existing litigation someone would have to be crazy to lose the prototype (or have it stolen or destroyed while in their care). I just don't see any of the volunteers working on the project doing such a thing.

It's a possibility... the thing about assets that can be moved is.. you have to actually pay someone to go and track them down and retrieve them. If the game gets polished up a bit... they shop it around.. and ultimately conclude the game is not economically feasible. Now it's just an asset to be liquidated with the closure of zidware... but to do that you must have possession of it. Let's say Pintasia has it.. somewhere.. then that company goes dark... and now they have a liability but they just fold up and declare bankruptcy too. Every layer and transaction you add, the harder it is to chase down and hold accountable. Add the border into this, and things get even more fun.

Ultimately you can clutter the channel so much it makes it impractical to pursue.. and even if you know where it is.. deciding 'who gets what' can be a twisted mess and littered with tombstone entities. It could be in plain sight yet people would be crippled to actually do much about it.

It's sure one hell of an expensive way to get get a prototype game... but its not an impossible outcome.

-2
#14134 5 years ago

Time to drain the thread, the game is worse than a playable whitewood with no innovation. Best of luck and I hope you all get some potion of your losses back. I would not accept that any ip or assets you could get that is not hard cash is worth any monetary value. Let it get auctioned and take your share if you have one. Bye guys, and good luck.

12
#14135 5 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Knowing now, that almost everything is custom, explains a great deal as to where funds went.

That does not mean that Pintasia has to keep everything custom in the new game.

$39 WPC flipper mechs would be great, and everyone would sleep soundly knowing they could buy $20 rebuild kits for the rest of their lives.

-

That's one thing you have to give JJP credit for, using mostly industry standard parts - saves money, eliminates replacement worry.

#14136 5 years ago

lots of reviews, but still nothing on one of the items Jpop clearly felt was extremely important after looking at other boutique games . . .

Are the air vents painted?

-1
#14137 5 years ago

Pending

#14138 5 years ago

#14139 5 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

lots of reviews, but still nothing on one of the items Jpop clearly felt was extremely important after looking at other boutique games . . .
Are the air vents painted?

Thru all this, I had figured someone would have taken a pic of the vents and posted it..... almost as important as a vid of someone making a ramp shot!! lol

#14140 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Maybe it should be? There are only 19 Magic Girl buyers... what if each kicked in for BOM, and prototypes were made comparable to what was shown at the show this weekend. Each gets a rare prototype, basically like having your own Wizard Blocks, and the book is closed on Magic Girl. It seems like the road to "finishing" the game fully is just too long and expensive.
Then focus on RAZA, where there are 124 owners and some money still available from unpaid deposits, and it addresses the issue of asking them to buy a game they didn't want if they don't want to wait 4 years.

Bingo. This is the only solution that makes sense, since there is about $400k left to collect. Plus I think the new team could push RAZA to $10,500.00 for a limited edition of 100 and possibly sell another 100 plus at the $8995.00 price point. Who knows as the cost to make Magic Girl seems high. Why not retool RAZA and give that a go first. Raza appears to be easier to produce.

For the first time use volunteer help to get these closer to production. There are people here that will help. My biased opinion is that MG is going to be the hardest to produce.

#14141 5 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

pinballrockstar said:
y passing away the last few days?"..
A family member. Really nobody on pinside's business. Drop it.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

pf mellow out man,i did not understand the context,thats all..jezus

#14142 5 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

For the first time use volunteer help to get these closer to production. There are people here that will help

Yes, and unlike doing work for JPOP, I would imagine anybody in charge other than JPOP would be much easier to work for (and appreciated). Honestly, if Bill came on here and said "Hey, I need a good programmer, an electrical eng, and a mechanical eng, and a pinball tech (for testing shots, mechs, flow) to volunteer to wrap up unfinished work", I bet he'd find the help he needed to complete at least an good working alpha machine. Along the way, as they figure out BOM cost, they can cost reduce large items as needed to get it built at a reasonable price.

I don't want to speak for others, but it would seem if everyone had the chance to buy a MG at a $8k pricetag by eliminating many of the mechs that may never be reliable or cost effective, this project "might" be salvageable.

#14143 5 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

pf mellow out man,i did not understand the context,thats all..jezus

No worries. It just would be really sad if this thread/pinside went that direction.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#14144 5 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

Bingo. This is the only solution that makes sense, since there is about $400k left to collect. Plus I think the new team could push RAZA to $10,500.00 for a limited edition of 100 and possibly sell another 100 plus at the $8995.00 price point. Who knows as the cost to make Magic Girl seems high. Why not retool RAZA and give that a go first. Raza appears to be easier to produce.

The main issue, as I understand it, is that the BOM for the machine is too high. I've heard 8K, others are speculating 10K. While I haven't personally run the numbers myself, it is going to be high. Too high to MSRP at anything less than 10K, and likely the $16K price point is where it'd have to stay.

Keep in mind that the game is missing a LOT of items and very likely that those missing items haven't either been finalized in design or properly tested to even validate that they'll work in game as expected. Much of what I saw in the game needs to be reworked or replaced to make it more manufacturable. So there is some unknown amount of money and time that will need to be invested in order to get to the point where you could accurately nail down the BOM and then calculate the final needed MSRP to make the project fly.

It would seem that the only way to make this game affordable (and manufacturable) would be to edit a lot of the features out of the game. But at that point, would it lose that J Poppin' Fresh Goodness that made people want to buy it in the first place?

#14145 5 years ago
Quoted from GLModular:

The main issue, as I understand it, is that the BOM for the machine is too high. I've heard 8K, others are speculating 10K. While I haven't personally run the numbers myself, it is going to be high. Too high to MSRP at anything less than 10K, and likely the $16K price point is where it'd have to stay.

The BOM is high because there is no volume...19 of anything custom is insanely expensive. Now that it is clear it will take the community to complete the game, I'd recommend retooling as much as possible to standard parts, which will lower BOM, resulting in lower price which attracts more buyers, which is the only way to get this done.

#14146 5 years ago

If we end up seeing the game running on FAST, after all this, I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.

15
#14147 5 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Haven't been on for the weekend, so am a bit behind. However I have to agree with this post, it's like if somebody walked into their house and caught someone looting the place but they were so busy arguing with their wife they just completely ignored him while he slowly slipped out the front door. That is how I see Bill Brandes exiting this project.

When it was fully disclosed that Kevin Kulek didn't have a license for Predator and the project was effectively dead, a surprisingly large number of people didn't get mad at Kevin, but got mad at those who they felt tipped off Fox. "If you had just kept your stinkin' traps shut, we all woulda got our games!" In other words, the legality of it, or that it wouldn't be a legitimately licensed Predator product, or that Kevin had committed fraud against them, didn't matter to them, long as they got there's.

I'm starting to think a variation of this is going on with regards to MG. "Who cares what shady stuff this Sabrina woman might be doing on the side, as long as we get our games?" But, if that's the case, that's an extremely dangerous gamble on what's already a long-shot situation.

#14148 5 years ago
Quoted from Tharizdun:

The only people who might put any additional $$ into this are:
1) The people who are already stuck and might do something irrational - Throwing good money after bad money scenario. Seems like several of these people are active here.
2) People who somehow get conned and won't be told about the history till it's too late - "Guys, I just saw this thread after I wired my downpayment… nobody will return my email/calls now!!" scenario.
That has to be a real finite # of new funds. This whole situation defies logic and reason at this point.

I don't get it...at what point is this game worth $16K?

What exactly are people looking for? A pinball machine that can play a game, grill a burger, and then fly to the moon?

Maybe I'm just completely out of touch, but this notion of creating ultra-rare, super-duper-crazy-insane special, machines is weird. Whatever happened to pressing start and justing playing games?

#14149 5 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

Bingo. This is the only solution that makes sense, since there is about $400k left to collect. Plus I think the new team could push RAZA to $10,500.00 for a limited edition of 100 and possibly sell another 100 plus at the $8995.00 price point. Who knows as the cost to make Magic Girl seems high. Why not retool RAZA and give that a go first. Raza appears to be easier to produce.
For the first time use volunteer help to get these closer to production. There are people here that will help. My biased opinion is that MG is going to be the hardest to produce.

I get the impression MG is further along, and thus is the right one to move forward with. It will require expanded production too, even 100 is too few to get significant parts discounts.

If the community is going to finish off RAZA, even the artwork needs some redo to get it back to the original theme. I've also seen as much interest in AIW, and that artwork is already fully consistent with the theme, it just lacks colorization. Ultimately it's just as likely that IF the pinball community finishes off all 3 games, it would be done by 3 separate, possibly concurrent efforts. It would be really awesome to these become equivalent to the "open source" community driven products, but it will need strong central management, and Pintasia is a reasonable first attempt at such an effort.

#14150 5 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

The BOM is high because there is no volume

And that is the smart way to approach the BOM: To assume that there is no volume and you aren't going to be able to take advantage of volume discounts.

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