Milwaukie, OR
Quoted from fastpinball:I was told it would come tomorrow...
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Ya. It'll be here on Saturday. At the shows request I think.
(Topic ID: 92436)
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Quoted from dgarrett:This is when I get foggy on how to argue right and wrong in this whole project. How do you argue difference of opinion and not meeting "expectations". If this is the game design you get - assuming Pintasia builds it - and your opinion is its "only worth 10k" - does Bill owe you a MG + $5995??
Folks ordered blindly at $15,995 and were promised a game. Game is now being shown, and those in at $15,995 don't like the look, feel and finish. But you gave over the money with no clue as to the final design,etc. You agreed and paid $15,995 with no refund. The game isn't worth that, in your opinion, now that you see it.
So is that fraud or high expectations v. the reality seen today. I'm not trying to be a jerk to those with $ in, but I honestly am looking for an explanation that isn't so foggy to understand.
Nobody ever thought it was going to be worth $16,000 in a run of 199 based purely on the design and mechanics. They thought it would be worth that much in a run of 25.
Edit: So yes, that is fraud if he does not give refunds after promising the limited number to the original buyers.
London
Delft
Quoted from toyotaboy:I see John found another solidworks monkey to do his bidding. Wonder if he's still using the student edition.
I almost applied for that job when he had it posted a few years ago. So glad I didn't.
Quoted from dgarrett:This is when I get foggy on how to argue right and wrong in this whole project. How do you argue difference of opinion and not meeting "expectations". If this is the game design you get - assuming Pintasia builds it - and your opinion is its "only worth 10k" - does Bill owe you a MG + $5995??
Folks ordered blindly at $15,995 and were promised a game. Game is now being shown, and those in at $15,995 don't like the look, feel and finish. But you gave over the money with no clue as to the final design,etc. You agreed and paid $15,995 with no refund. The game isn't worth that, in your opinion, now that you see it.
So is that fraud or high expectations v. the reality seen today. I'm not trying to be a jerk to those with $ in, but I honestly am looking for an explanation that isn't so foggy to understand.
Simple. Mr Popadiuk said 19 would be built, and would be delivered 2 years ago. Breach of contract.
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:It's coming tomorrow AM
Was the show not open to the public today? why would it not be there? 30 hours straight on the road to now wait 24 hours and not show it? Hmmmm, the big reveal i guess.
Btw, all you guys that worked to make this happen, dgarret, Pdx and The rest of Bills crew, great job!
And let's not forget Cointaker, GLM and all the other vendors that put so much time and $$ into this. Especially sorry you guys got F ed
And Aaron, Yeti, secret manager guy, etc
All you guys are great 
Quoted from Pinballs:Why? What difference does it make?
Tell you what, you show me yours and I'll show you mine.
You got a deal.
I have #18. Now what's yours? Whip it out...
Quoted from Pinballs:Here it is. Admire the majesty. Oh, you mean the number?
So what's your number? You've said repeatedly you're suing and that you've purchased a game 4 years ago. I'm not asking for your receipt at the door here, what's the number?
Quoted from ChrisVW:You got a deal.
I have #18. Now what's yours? Whip it out...
18.png
His must not be as girthy as yours.
Quoted from rommy:I have no idea on numbers- but he has filed suit. I verify that .
I have wondered why you & Mr68 always seem to be soooooo quick to doubt Real owners & quickly scrutinize their claims ?? Edit I meant VW not Rommy even though I quoted his post
Quoted from shlockdoc:Was the show not open to the public today? why would it not be there? 30 hours straight on the road to now wait 24 hours and not show it? Hmmmm, the big reveal i guess.
Sombody forget the rug?
Quoted from iceman44:Btw, all you guys that worked to make this happen, dgarret, Pdx and The rest of Bills crew, great job!
And let's not forget Cointaker, GLM and all the other vendors that put so much time and $$ into this. Especially sorry you guys got F ed
And Aaron, Yeti, secret manager guy, etc
All you guys are great
Let's not forget to thank John for spending over one million dollars to make this happen. Everyone is looking at the most expensive prototype pinball game ever made. Lets thank all of us who gave John the money to make this happen.
Quoted from ChrisVW:So what's your number? You've said repeatedly you're suing and that you've purchased a game 4 years ago. I'm not asking for your receipt at the door here, what's the number?
You sort of are.
Anyway, I can dig it out tomorrow, old chap. No problem. RAZA as well as MG. I'm outside in the jacuzzi currently 
But why is it so important? You've asked me several times. It's not as if I have #1, which I guess I would remember! Frankly the number of something that will never happen, is dead, and was always vapourware isn't terribly important.
Quoted from hank527:Let's not forget to thank John for spending over one million dollars to make this happen. Everyone is looking at the most expensive prototype pinball game ever made. Lets thank all of us who gave John the money to make this happen.
Ouch. Painful but true.
Quoted from Pinballs:But why is it so important? You've asked me several times. It's not as if I have #1, which I guess I would remember! Frankly the number of something that will never happen, is dead, and was always vapourware isn't terribly important.
not only that but the #'s apparently don't mean squat John doesn't even know what # anyone is on any game! I have mentioned it here more than once , he sent me documents saying that I was #51 as well as #71 on AIW
Quoted from pinstor12:Sombody forget the rug?
Well played sir. 
Quoted from shlockdoc:Was the show not open to the public today? why would it not be there? 30 hours straight on the road to now wait 24 hours and not show it? Hmmmm, the big reveal i guess.
Quoted from Pinballs:You sort of are.
Anyway, I can dig it out tomorrow, old chap. No problem. RAZA as well as MG. I'm outside in the jacuzzi currently
But why is it so important? You've asked me several times. It's not as if I have #1, which I guess I would remember! Frankly the number of something that will never happen, is dead, and was always vapourware isn't terribly important.
No problem. I can wait til tomorrow.
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:I have wondered why you & Mr68 always seem to be soooooo quick to doubt Real owners & quickly scrutinize their claims ?? Edit I meant VW not Rommy even though I quoted his post
In fairness to Mr68, I sent him a scan of the first page of my MG purchase agreement (yet another contract Jflop got us to sign), in order to be invited to his MG-RAZA facebook page, following which he stated in this thread that I am genuine. Which is nice. I find validation terribly important 
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:I have wondered why you & Mr68 always seem to be soooooo quick to doubt Real owners & quickly scrutinize their claims ?? Edit I meant VW not Rommy even though I quoted his post
Because I've had several Pinsiders try to bullshit their way into the private owners group.
It's pathetic how desperate some people are to butt into other people's business.
Pinballs had been verified by the way.
Quoted from hank527:Let's not forget to thank John for spending over one million dollars to make this happen. Everyone is looking at the most expensive prototype pinball game ever made. Lets thank all of us who gave John the money to make this happen.
Here here, I'll drink to that!
Original MG payment schedule...
Custom "Magic Girl" Pinball Machine $15,995.00 (usd)
Initial Deposit $500. (usd)
Secure Deposit (please remit this amount) $7500. (usd)
Remaining Payments Due (see schedule A) $7995. (usd)
10/25/2011 Final design brief and master docs completed $1000.00
12/25/2011 Game concepts Pencil Sketches $1000.00
2/25/2012 Cabinet and Playfield Sketch Model $2000.00
4/25/2012 Game artwork development & colors $1000.00
6/25/2012 Working game maquette $2000.00
8/25/2012 Completed final part review & assembly $995.00
10/25/2012 Estimated completion date for game for delivery
Quoted from iceman44:Here here, I'll drink to that!
The party can finally get started now that Ice is here!
Quoted from jarjarisgod:The party can finally get started now that Ice is here!
If only we were up in the great NW Jar!
I should have planned better but a pinball show was not a good excuse for me not going to New York with family 
Work shit sounds a whole lot better
Quoted from iceman44:Here here, I'll drink to that!
Mods, we have a code "burnt orange!" Limber the banfinger 
Quoted from Pinballs:In fairness to Mr68, I sent him a scan of the first page of my MG purchase agreement (yet another contract Jflop got us to sign), in order to be invited to his MG-RAZA facebook page, following which he stated in this thread that I am genuine. Which is nice. I find validation terribly important
Pinballs is legit.
Nothing personal man, I just don't believe everything I read on the internet. When someone makes serious allegations (like joining a lawsuit) I want to know for myself that person is for real. You are for real bud.
Quoted from Erik:Mods, we have a code "burnt orange!" Limber the banfinger
Not tonight Erik, I'm in happy happy mode!
The Hulk mode cannot be triggered, I will stay very positive and sarcastic but will not cross the line.
No need to worry mods, it's all coming down to the end of this fiasco and I feel somewhat liberated by just seeing what could have been.
Life is short and we move on
Quoted from iceman44:If only we were up in the great NW Jar!
I should have planned better but a pinball show was not a good excuse for me not going to New York with family
Work shit sounds a whole lot better
Hell yeah! Would have been a good time.
Unfortunately, I have to go into work tonight and pull an all nighter. Doing an upgrade of our ERP system. High excitement. 
Sana'a
Too bad we still do not have a clue on the most important thing...
HOW DOES IT PLAY!!!
I will say time and time again it is completely disgusting that this is going to be shown at a show when you have NUMEROUS unpaid vendors, artists, coders, etc... Many of these guys are our pinball brothers and yet they got stepped on and kicked in the junk while their hard work is being featured so someone else can attempt to turn this disaster into a feasible business model and beta for more cash! Never mind that the proposed business and its employees have a littered past and shown to be questionable ethics, they are also doing it on the millions of dollars in preorder money that is being dangled with a non-sue BS contract.
HOW is it possible that so many people are willing to overlook all this?
Pintasia has claimed that he spent over 100k to get the game playable and to the show and it is obvious that even more volunteers have put in lots of time to make stuff happen in the past few months, yet the artists and coders and parts suppliers are still sitting here unpaid!!!
This is a serious WTF in my book.
It is this weird dichotomy of so many great people trying to make something 8thanks to all of you) out of a pile of crap and yet the people steering this whole thing appear to have not taken a single step towards doing the right things to take care of those that even got it to this point.
On top of this all, John the tool that made all this shitstorm come to life is being offered a get out of jail free card if Pintasia can convince and manipulate people into giving even more money.
The red flags are huge and sickening and unpaid vendors and artists should be fuming that their work and parts are being featured at the show.
I feel for all of you that are going to loose in this situation but even more so that your emotions are continually being toyed with.
Play the game like you stole it because it will likely be the one and only time this flippable game? is seen in the real world.
Quoted from vid1900:Pinball Circus cost $1.5 Million to prototype in 1993 dollars - that would be $2.4 Million today.
Vid you are a walking pinball encyclopedia my man!
Quoted from vid1900:Pinball Circus cost $1.5 Million to prototype in 1993 dollars - that would be $2.4 Million today.
Wow!! 
& I also read about how a whole lot of Crazy money$ went into Capcom's Zingy Blingy prototytpe & the anatomical dolls in the backglass & that Python somehow self authorized the funding for that , the dude must have had a lot of pull
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