(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#1251 5 years ago

I'm sorry if I have no clue what I am talking about her as I haven't been following this, but I was on instagram a couple of days ago looking at #pinball pictures and there was a picture of 4-5 "complete" machines - either RAZA or Magic Girl posted with #popadiuk or something. It had a complete playfield which looked to have a crazy ramp in the back middle. Is this old news and was posted awhile ago? It looked to be from some blogger or journalist who had an interview with John. I have been searching for the picture but I can't find it again... I am unsure if it was taken down.

#1252 5 years ago

I sort of agree on the letter ... I think you're 100% within your rights to get a refund based on non delivery, but maybe the bankruptcy stuff wasn't necessary. I do wish you luck though!

It'd be pretty hard to plough through $812,000 in two years though. That's a lot of coin. Unless you were buying Ferraris, lots of properties, or mountains of coke and an avalanche of hookers, you'd be hard pressed to blow 800k.

Even Eggbert can live on $3500 a month.

rd.

#1253 5 years ago

I'm concerned about "where the money has gone" because of the lack of refunds. If there was an account with a half million dollars sitting in it, why not just cut people loose? Better than the public flogging that is happening.

#1254 5 years ago

Developing parts, building rent, paying his small crew a salary, and the big one is patent work... The amount of money to file for patents is in the thousands. Generally it's minimal to start. But after a year to continue the patent process can cost upwards of $8-10k each patent... $800k is not a lot of money to go through for this type of Buisness.

#1255 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Developing parts, building rent, paying his small crew a salary, and the big one is patent work... The amount of money to file for patents is in the thousands. Generally it's minimal to start. But after a year to continue the patent process can cost upwards of $8-10k each patent... $800k is not a lot of money to go through for this type of Buisness.

Well, I have no doubt you could do it ... However, it'd be the worst run business in the world if he did.

rd.

-12
#1256 5 years ago

jPop-PinballWizard.png
#1257 5 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

It'd be pretty hard to plough through $812,000 in two years though. That's a lot of coin. Unless you were buying Ferraris, lots of properties, or mountains of coke and an Avalanche of hookers, you'd be hard pressed to blow 800k.

Maybe JPOP is stockpiling Shasta.

#1258 5 years ago

Hookers, blow and Shasta! Ahhh yes, it's good to be able to laugh at the situation sometimes

#1259 5 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

Let's call all of this what it really is. There is an apparent lack of focus in getting any of these games complete and ready for final production. I was holding out, hoping a full working version of Magic Girl would be finished for Expo. I also know that in two years time you have collected $ 812,500.00 from the RAZA group and know you have expenses, which may involve rent and purchasing equipment to build the games. My fear is that half or more of this money may be gone and that you may never produce these games. I fear that the lack of progress is going to stop any new capital coming in and that it may be only a matter of time before your current capital is gone. I'm very worried you are on the edge of bankruptcy and would suggest you take action and restore people's faith in your company.

I would have not included this paragraph. Creating a negative mood will only lessen your chances of reaching an agreement. The idea of the letter is to show the other person you are serious and give them the chance to consider their legal choices. It is not an opportunity to insult them or create an adversarial relationship. If the dispute ends up in court, remember that the same judge who will hear your case will read your demand letter. This is another reason to keep it objective and professional. The last thing you would want is for the judge to perceive you as being antagonistic.

If you are serious and prepared to follow through and sue JPOP's LLC and all the things that come with taking that course of action, I would begin the process by having an attorney send JPOP a formal demand letter for a refund via certified mail. You probably can only sue JPOP in IL small claims court unless, generally speaking, you can serve him, a rep or his business in your state (if other than IL). Unfortunately, in our society, it can sometimes cost you money (and sometimes lots of it) and time to get your money back.

Good luck to you and everyone else trying to get a refund.

#1260 5 years ago

I said it before and I'll say it again. Nobody should have their money held this long for a product that does not have a verifiable timeline for completion.

Any of you guys who are in and want out should request a refund and send that request along with a timeline of your intended actions is a refund is not issued
IE: ask for refund by a reasonable date, ask for a reply of John's intention before that reasonable date, let John know that if a response has not been issued by said date that lawyers will be contacted and action will be taken to recoup the investment.

Nobody should be expected to have their money held in limbo for the manufacture of a product that has failed to meet the agreed upon production schedule, especially when there has been no official update to said production schedule.

You guys who want to hang in - Glad you have the stomach for this.
For those who want out - Go get your money back or at the very least talk to a lawyer.

This whole thing has taught me a very good lesson - I will never ever ever put money down on a game that does not exist in it's final state at the time of payment. It's just too damn risky.

#1261 5 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

Maybe JPOP is stockpiling Shasta.

Well, with $800,000 you should be able to negotiate a very good quantity discount.

Then turn around and sell it for more.

Turn your $800,000 into $1,000,000 within a few months.

As opposed to turning it into .... Ummmmmm ...

rd.

#1262 5 years ago

Raza is so far off from build, mg I wouldn't be surprised to see 2-3 full proto next month... But what the build time after that will be is the next issue... The last issue is who does the warranty work lol

#1263 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Raza is so far off from build, mg I wouldn't be surprised to see 2-3 full proto next month... But what the build time after that will be is the next issue... The last issue is who does the warranty work lol

Who does the warranty work for a 20k BBB?

#1264 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

I wouldn't be surprised to see 2-3 full proto next month... But what the build time after that will be is the next issue

I will be completely floored if the MG reveal has anything more than rudimentary code and animation. I would say that will be a lengthy process to get through before production begins. DP's timeline for TBL has allowed for 7-9 months of code/rules/dots development between physical reveal and production start and most of their animation is provided by the IP. I still see a long road ahead before owners have MG in their possession.

#1265 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Who does the warranty work for a 20k BBB?

Who DID the warranty work for gene? that's a good question as I wasn't in on that game back then... Any original bbb owners want to chime in how gene handled warranty work the first year after he shipped games... O ya that's right that game design was already done with a tried and tested existing board system, not started from the ground up with all new systems that are untested.!!

#1266 5 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

I will be completely floored if the MG reveal has anything more than rudimentary code and animation. I would say that will be a lengthy process to get through before production begins. DP's timeline for TBL has allowed for 7-9 months of code/rules/dots development between physical reveal and production start and most of their animation is provided by the IP. I still see a long road ahead before owners have MG in their possession.

He's said for a while now he has new core of fresh fish doing code and LCD work... They have been around for a while, hopefully it's more then a flipping game. I'm not sure would be nice if it was more, but as John shows u nothing is ever not finished he can make it better

#1267 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Who DID the warranty work for gene? that's a good question as I wasn't in on that game back then... Any original bbb owners want to chime in how gene handled warranty work the first year after he shipped games... O ya that's right that game design was already done with a tried and tested existing board system, not started from the ground up with all new systems that are untested.!!

Tried and true huh? Why does Stern have so many QC issues with every release. Last thing I'm worried about is the "boards" or the "system". If and when we get the pins Jpop will be viable. If we don't warranty won't matter, now will it

Which Jpop pin are you in on?

#1268 5 years ago

Was in on two mg now just a piece of one, and refunded on raza #8 cause I had a feeling mg would get done and raza would be left holding the bag... But I'll be delightfully wrong if he gets there

#1269 5 years ago

A piece of one. How does that work? Well I'm in for MG too without the risk so im looking forward to it

#1270 5 years ago

Spilt the cost of a game with someone. Piece of it!

Glad ur on mg... Feel bad for raza guys

#1271 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Who DID the warranty work for gene? that's a good question as I wasn't in on that game back then... Any original bbb owners want to chime in how gene handled warranty work the first year after he shipped games... O ya that's right that game design was already done with a tried and tested existing board system, not started from the ground up with all new systems that are untested.!!

Yep, the games basically worked out of the box, and whatever issues were encountered were dealt with by the owners. I'd say at least half of the games weren't opened right away, so only 80-100 games up and running... back then most buyers knew how to fix minor problems, so it was a non-issue.

#1272 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Spilt the cost of a game with someone. Piece of it!
Glad ur on mg... Feel bad for raza guys

I'm on RAZA too. Def could be a bag holder but I don't think so. I actually think John is going to make it. May be wishful thinking but we will see

#1273 5 years ago
Quoted from S37VEN:

I would have not included this paragraph. Creating a negative mood will only lessen your chances of reaching an agreement. The idea of the letter is to show the other person you are serious and give them the chance to consider their legal choices. It is not an opportunity to insult them or create an adversarial relationship. If the dispute ends up in court, remember that the same judge who will hear your case will read your demand letter. This is another reason to keep it objective and professional. The last thing you would want is for the judge to perceive you as being antagonistic.
If you are serious and prepared to follow through and sue JPOP's LLC and all the things that come with taking that course of action, I would begin the process by having an attorney send JPOP a formal demand letter for a refund via certified mail. You probably can only sue JPOP in IL small claims court unless, generally speaking, you can serve him, a rep or his business in your state (if other than IL). Unfortunately, in our society, it can sometimes cost you money (and sometimes lots of it) and time to get your money back.
Good luck to you and everyone else trying to get a refund.

Oh I agree with a lot of comments. I sent that out of anger as I know he bought equipment to build the games and I know he has bills, which include rent. I really wanted him to think about what he is doing. I do not want to get a lawyer involved, but I think many of us are so frustrated that it may become a reality and then John is really going to have a headache.

I want John to post the damn pictures to the public and build excitement. I also expect him to respond to emails and calls as we have every right to know what the hell is going on?

#1274 5 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

When Zid's games finally release they are gonna be worth their weight in gold. If someone could honestly say that about WOZ I'll do a back flip~

There were plenty of people that made a fast 3 grand or more off selling their WOZLE's.

#1275 5 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

I do not want to get a lawyer involved, but I think many of us are so frustrated that it may become a reality and then John is really going to have a headache.

As a lawyer, "getting a lawyer" is a bad idea, you may win the battle but you will lose the war and throw good money after bad. The legal retainer alone will be prohibitive for the $6500 in damages you would be looking to recover, plus a low interest rate.

I think your best bet is to hang in there until MG is revealed and then get somebody to pick up your RAZA spot.

In some respects, I feel like the patents John is getting will be worthless as well from a practical standpoint other than used as a deterrent. If you have to enforce a patent as a small business owner you lose, especially when you would have a hard time quantifying the damages over the use of a particular part or design. Cease and desist, sure, but so what.

-2
#1276 5 years ago

Iceman is right, lawyers are useless except for the rich.

#1277 5 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

There were plenty of people that made a fast 3 grand or more off selling their WOZLE's.

I would say there were a few "day traders" that were flipping their positions for some extra cash but that is not the same thing as retained value.

Try to flip a WOZLE EC for more than $7500 today.

-2
#1278 5 years ago
Quoted from S37VEN:

..I would begin the process by having an attorney send JPOP a formal demand letter for a refund via certified mail...

I agree with this, but you don't need a lawyer yet. Just a short note stating the contract has been breached and demand for refund within 30 days.

After 30 days you can decide where and how to sue. Just think how an endless series of depositions could delay any limited progress that might otherwise may have been made. One difficult "pre-buyer" could really reduce the chances that anyone get a game.

#1279 5 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

After 30 days you can decide where and how to sue. Just think how an endless series of depositions could delay any limited progress that might otherwise may have been made. One difficult "pre-buyer" could really reduce the chances that anyone get a game.

You are obviously clueless Sack Good lord

#1280 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

As a lawyer, "getting a lawyer" is a bad idea, you may win the battle but you will lose the war and throw good money after bad. The legal retainer alone will be prohibitive for the $6500 in damages you would be looking to recover, plus a low interest rate.
I think your best bet is to hang in there until MG is revealed and then get somebody to pick up your RAZA spot.
In some respects, I feel like the patents John is getting will be worthless as well from a practical standpoint other than used as a deterrent. If you have to enforce a patent as a small business owner you lose, especially when you would have a hard time quantifying the damages over the use of a particular part or design. Cease and desist, sure, but so what.

So how do we convey to Jpop that we are not happy and expect our questions to be answered including the major one of who is going to produce the game and whom is going to do the coding? To my knowledge John is not a coder

#1281 5 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

So how do we convey to Jpop that we are not happy and expect our questions to be answered including the major one of who is going to produce the game and whom is going to do the coding? To my knowledge John is not a coder

Just my thinking here but......

I know John is working on getting a partner to help with the production, big question

We will get to see a MG release in a few weeks, should be a huge boost

Plus, John said we will get a big RAZA reveal the first two week in January

The coding is being done by some "new talent", that issue has never changed

At this point, it makes sense to wait until "RAZA reveal", I'm sure you will be able to get out then if you still want to.

We have waited this long, another month and 1/2 and we will know a timeline and direction.

#1282 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Just my thinking here but......
I know John is working on getting a partner to help with the production, big question
We will get to see a MG release in a few weeks, should be a huge boost
Plus, John said we will get a big RAZA reveal the first two week in January
The coding is being done by some "new talent", that issue has never changed
At this point, it makes sense to wait until "RAZA reveal", I'm sure you will be able to get out then if you still want to.
We have waited this long, another month and 1/2 and we will know a timeline and direction.

Ice,

I definitely want my RAZA, but I also want to be confident its going to get made and we are not going to be out $$$. The wait is also killing me. Is anyone fine giving someone $6500 and waiting 4 or more years?

That's where I may bail. I want to know all of the information and make an informed decision on whether to keep our sell. Currently, none of us can find a buyer and if we want to get out and John is not responding to buy back request.

#1283 5 years ago

Almost all of the problems in this thread could have been handled with some simple answers to simple questions. It's the avoidance that is creating a taint over everything.

Give refunds to anyone who is asking. The games are obscenely behind schedule and you can't force someone to stay in yet not deliver a product. If the game is going to be truly as great as we're led to believe, those spots will fill up again.

Not giving refunds paints a picture that the bank account is empty and there is no money to give back. And if that is true, then there are bigger problems at play here and that needs to be dealt with in a transparent and professional way.

#1284 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Well I'm in for MG too without the risk so im looking forward to it

What do you mean by "without the risk"?

#1285 5 years ago

We have waited this long, and with the MG and RAZA reveals coming in December and January, I think I can wait another two months.

Yes, it's a lot of money on the line. Yes, I am in on both. Yes, I have the patience to wait and see Jpop's progress. I was fully aware that this is a gamble and there were no guarantees when I signed up.

A lynch mob mentality here will only harm Jpop's progress and not accomplish anything other than entertainment for a few naysayers.

Positive motivation like the TBL reveal is much more effective at motivating Jpop.

#1286 5 years ago
Quoted from roc-noc:

A lynch mob mentality here will only harm Jpop's progress and not accomplish anything other than entertainment for a few naysayers.

I have found it odd how many people that don't have any money invested in this have so much pent up to say about it. If you aren't a buyer I just don't understand how you could have any more than a passing curiosity.

#1287 5 years ago
Quoted from VGC1612:

jPop-PinballWizard.png 187 KB

This was a double fail because not only isn't it funny but you can't even spell. Give up your failing career in comedy and spend that time learning the difference between their, they're and there.

#1288 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

I have found it odd how many people that don't have any money invested in this have so much pent up to say about it. If you aren't a buyer I just don't understand how you could have any more than a passing curiosity.

13
#1289 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

I have found it odd how many people that don't have any money invested in this have so much pent up to say about it. If you aren't a buyer I just don't understand how you could have any more than a passing curiosity.

1.) We are all potential customers. I love CV, TOM, WCS'94, TOTAN....I'd love to see Jpop actually make new games. No f*cking way I'm going to give him a cent right now...but despite my skepticism, I want to see him succeed.

2.) We're all pinball friends here - we have empathy for those who do have money in on these games and don't want to see them lose their cash.

Quoted from roc-noc:

A lynch mob mentality here will only harm Jpop's progress

Please, don't blame the "victims". We're harming Jpop's progress? HAH! The burden of his business and how he runs it is solely on him. We didn't take anyone's money. We didn't say we're making 3 games. We didn't make promises and then break them. That's on him. Customers and potential customers have every right to critique the situation.

#1290 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

1.) We are all potential customers. I love CV, TOM, WCS'94, TOTAN....I'd love to see Jpop actually make new games. No f*cking way I'm going to give him a cent right now...but despite my skepticism, I want to see him succeed.

2.) We're all pinball friends here - we have empathy for those who do have money in on these games and don't want to see them lose their cash.

I don't blame you not wanting to give him money now...who would?

Unlike some others that have said "shut up if you aren't a buyer" I'm not saying that. I'm just noting that in some cases, not necessarily yours, some of the most hate and empty threats have been thrown around by non-owners. I don't understand that. For example, I have a passing interest in what the car crash looks like over in Skit-B land, but I'm not in on Predator so I just can't get too worked up either way.

#1291 5 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

Ice,
I definitely want my RAZA, but I also want to be confident its going to get made and we are not going to be out $$$. The wait is also killing me. Is anyone fine giving someone $6500 and waiting 4 or more years?
That's where I may bail. I want to know all of the information and make an informed decision on whether to keep our sell. Currently, none of us can find a buyer and if we want to get out and John is not responding to buy back request.

I agree with you, I'm saying just wait another month or two to for John to set a timeline and get some major reveal going.

Then you get the excitement going again and when people see MG they are going to want in and you'll have a better chance of getting out of RAZA.

And no, I wouldn't give him another dime either....right now But i'm ok with losing what I have into it also, although I highly doubt that happens.

#1292 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

And no, I wouldn't give him another dime either....right now But i'm ok with losing what I have into it also, although I highly doubt that happens.

I don't think anyone in on MG will be out money, but I'm starting to wonder about those of us in on RAZA. I think Jpop is progressing in earnest, but if he's really still a few years out, who knows what will happen by then. I've come to terms with never seeing that money again, but getting a game for it would be cool.

I think he'll ultimately deliver RAZA, but I suspect it will fall into the heavily under-coded category. It sucks when Stern does that (all the time) but at least you know code updates are coming 6-12 months later. Can anyone honestly say they believe Jpop will be releasing code updates even if he ever gets these games out the door?

#1293 5 years ago

Yep, in any business venture, the last guys in line could get stuck holding the bag.

That's just the way it is. I agree, MG is a given.

#1294 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Yep, in any business venture, the last guys in line could get stuck holding the bag.

No offense to those involved, but thankfully that's AIW. Not sure how anyone had the confidence to jump down that rabbit hole.

Off topic here, but speaking of AIW, has anyone seen the Riot Pinball (guys making WOOLY) AIW playfield sketch? That thing looked cool and since I've seen and loved WOOLY to death, if I wanted an AIW pin, I'd be holding out for that.

#1295 5 years ago

I have a feeling the January reveal is going to be accompanied by a request for the final installment. I'm not going to pay it either. When my game is actually being assembled I'll pay the last installment but not a dime before then, especially when the game is still at least two years out. Also if the game is two years away why is it being revealed in January? It certainly won't be ready to produce in January. I'm expecting little more than a white wood and an attract animation. Prototype play field hardware and zero code is my prediction.

#1296 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

No offense to those involved, but thankfully that's AIW. Not sure how anyone had the confidence to jump down that rabbit hole.
Off topic here, but speaking of AIW, has anyone seen the Riot Pinball (guys making WOOLY) AIW playfield sketch? That thing looked cool and since I've seen and loved WOOLY to death, if I wanted an AIW pin, I'd be holding out for that.

I put $1500 on AIW too to support Jpop.

Smart? No. But I'm getting an MG too and waiting to pay for that one !

#1297 5 years ago

I'm not paying a dime until game is in production

#1298 5 years ago

I VISITED THE JPOP LAB LAST WEEK

I've been paid in full for MG for nearly two years and I have a significant amount paid in towards RAZA. If you look at earlier posts of mine toward the beginning of this thread it's very clear that I don't drink the JPOP cool aid (far from it) and that I'm as frustrated as could be with the delay. It brought me to a point where I said to myself that with over $20k invested into John's projects and all of this frustration I'm an ass if I don't drive or fly out to see him, so that's just what I did. (I'm not implying anything about other owners that choose not to or can't, it's just how I felt about my own situation)

All I can say is that if you are an owner and have the ability to visit you should. I'm also posting this to hopefully prevent some of the owners from having an unnecessary coronary. With that being said...could something go wrong...funds run out....development take even longer? Certainly.....These are all items that always remain the unknown, so I'm not offering you a verbal insurance policy but I'm happy to share an outline of what I saw and you take from it what you will.

I PLAYED A FEW GAMES OF MAGIC GIRL and really enjoyed the game. (It was not 100% done)

The LED screen was functioning, had tons of animation (certainly still has more to go), and it was fully interactive with gameplay.

Soundtrack and sounds were very appealing. I hate to take his new work and reference it by looking back 20 years but since it's the only comparable we all know, think along the lines of a TOM / TOTAN combo.

The playfield is far from a white wood. I believe the prototype I played had the final version of the playfield, although I'm sure anything is subject to change, but any of us would be thrilled to have this in our game without a single revision. The artwork is absolutely amazing. Colors are vibrant and really JPOP.

The backglass/translite is stunning and I believe it's been finalized. Artwork is also amazing and it beautifully compliments the playfield and cabinet art.

I think the cabinet art is terrific. Not too busy but really calls out to you. I predict there will not be any controversy by the owners over the artwork package.

In terms of the mechs, ramps, lighting, etc. I don't want to spit out a random percentage, but a significant amount were final production parts, with many items still being the prototype version as they wait for the arrival of the production pieces, and a small percentage being items still undergoing testing. There are boxes and boxes in his facility filled with some of the final parts that will go into the game, both for on the playfield and for underneath. The underside of the playfield was completely wired up..if you saw a picture of the underside you'd nearly think it was one that rolled off a Bally/Williams assembly line.

Ramps are going to be very "fun" and as I'm sure you expected are far off from what you see in pinball games today.

Lighting has some new and very visually appealing concepts that I think other manufacturers will attempt to use in their future games.

Toys.....certainly some new things pinball hasn't seen yet and others that we have seen, just pumped up on steroids. Of course many other playfield items/toys that are somewhat standard. One toy in particular is just off the charts.

Away from Magic Girl......
I saw the RAZA playfield that RAZA owners had access to on John's blog. It looks even better in person when you can view it from any angle. I also saw a few versions of cabinet art beyond what was displayed at Expo.

Saw an early sketched version of the AIW playfield (in a cabinet) as well as early sketched cabinet art.

I'm sorry that a lot of what I'm saying is "soft fluff" and incredibly general, but you all know why... Just imagine how frustrating it is to play the prototype of such an exciting and visually attractive game and not be able to tell your friends in the pinball community about it.

I just want to reiterate to owners, MG in particular (and RAZA once you see MG you'll be more comfortable) that I believe you will be much more relaxed when the private reveal happens. Considering how much time we've already spent waiting, a month or two of patience will serve you well and then you can decide for yourself. My point is, Magic Girl is real and almost here.

Or you can do what this impatient, anal retentive, worried OP (me) did and pay him a visit before you call your attorney. Heck, if you want out once the game has been produced I'm fairly confident you'll be able to make a decent return selling your game. Well deserved in my opinion considering the risk we've all taken.

** Your MG will not be in your gameroom in the next few months, but I don't think by end of 2015 is at all unrealistic. RAZA is being designed in parallel with MG so not a three year wait for that game either IMHO.

#1299 5 years ago
Quoted from Multiball1:

** Your MG will not be in your gameroom in the next few months, but I don't think by end of 2015 is at all unrealistic.

Wow. Still another year for MG?

#1300 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I put $1500 on AIW too to support Jpop.
Smart? No. But I'm getting an MG too and waiting to pay for that one !

I did the same thing Ice... you sir are not alone

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Machine - For Trade
Fargo, ND
$ 259.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball LEDs
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