Neat idea.

For this thread, you can get 95% of the content without any of the noise if you read only Frolic's posts. Good way to cut 12k posts into a more managable 800 or so:

(https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6mg-raza-and-aiw%E2%80%A6?tu=frolic)

I still like Turtles.

Pretty epic posting by the Iceman. Holy crap.

Iceman you should change your avatar.

Hulk.jpg

OrJH.jpg

Let me summarize:

Concept - Fantastic
Execution - Horrific

yeah god forbid anyone understands the emotional rollercoaster he is going through!

I feel much better, but sad, for suing Jpop, if that makes sense. It's something I thought I'd never do, as I loved the pinball crazy dude, but things change, I guess. It's certainly brought out the worst of people, and poisoned pinball in some ways, but also brought out the best, and I feel that pinball will be stronger afterwards. For example, the pinball bubble and associated pre-ordering is dead. Reality is returning, and with it I hope better business models.

Meanwhile, Stern keeps pumping out new machines. Gotta admire those guys, for all their foibles

so.. how did pintasia get all the assets and ip? is there a bill of sale? transfer? do they now own zidware debt? is this even legal?

before, the debtor pyramid was companies owed, and people who paid money in up front.

with people doing the pintasia credit thing, do pintasia now become the largested creditor owed? and being largested creditor would get first pick over the assets?

by pintasia getting all the parts/ip/designs ownership does this just wipe whats owed to other creditors of zidware, seems shaky to grab all ip/assets as one company goes bankrupt before court divies it up to the creditors.

I cant get my head around the legalities of whats gone on between pintasia<>zidware<>creditors.

If zidware files (or is forced into) bankruptcy in the short term, any sales to pintasia would likely be reversed. Licensing would not, and pintasia would become another creditor if they paid zidware for anything. Barring some kind of settlement, zidware's assets would go up for auction, and pintasia (and anyone else) can bid on them.

It always sounded like BS

If you want to see it please vote!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sort-posts-by-rating

Terrible idea. Pinside wouldn't be the same without Ice's occasional drunk posting binges.

It should just tag your posts with your current BAC. Then before you hit 'Post', it says, "Dude, you're wrecked. Are you really, really sure? You're probably taking whatever the hell it is way too seriously."

[Post Anyway] [Sleep it Off]

From 3:00 to 3:35 is priceless. He must be a psychic buffoon

I almost want to see my name on a billboard. Free advertising. I keed I keed

I am not in your situation, but I think I would feel the same way.

Unfortunately, with so many boutique operations popping up, I think it was inevitable that one or more would not be able to get a pin to delivery and people would lose money. WOZ, which I preordered, could have ended up in the same situation.

Some people will still preorder to fund a boutique as early as initial development, but now that people have more than likely lost real money on Pred & MG, I doubt there will be enough to fund adequately.

We as hobbyists will recover because we love pinball, but I think the only boutique shops that get off the ground will have done it on the strength of their own pocketbook or private investors.

The difference is that Jack's communication stood throughout the good times and the bad. That's called character. All you need to do to is watch one episode of American Greed to know that once someone goes virtually silent it's never good. Or be a sales rep who had a deal in the pipeline only to never get that final call back and purchase order. I don't recall Jack ever being silent for very long.

I have to admit, there were a few times that I was a little worried bout getting my WOZ. I was in Philly for work and decided to take a side trip to see the production line and talk to Jack. Doing so relieved my concerns.

His spirit animal isn't a squirrel, it's a chameleon.

Actually I remember watching that video when it was first posted and being very impressed with JPop. Gave me more confidence in my purchase of BHZA at the time.

Maybe a better solution for boutique pinball is the DeAgostini model approach.

Example:
http://www.model-space.com/gb/build-millennium-falcon

I'm only half joking. I'd actually love to build a pinball machine month to month with all of the parts coming by mail one at a time. At least then you get something material each month.

Maybe that's something to consider for any future sales of these machines. Start everyone off with a flat pack screened up cab, then the back box, mechanically populated playfield, plastics and toys, then the finally plug and play boards and electronics.

Sadly probably not the least bit practical or cost effective.

Hah! It's my sober posting that tends to get me in trouble!

I disagree,nice seminar,nothing wrong with the dude.
I just don't understand if you start building a game,make a BOM first and you know what you can spend on building it?
How can one blow through all the money for nearly 300 machines?
And not produce 1 machine?

Wait,i feel a hurl coming on..

You'd be amazed how rational some of us are after properly adjusting our attitudes before dealing with this sort of noise.

Doesn't generate revenue.

Just a little over 58 hours until hopefully the Magic Girl prototype makes it's debut at the NW show, at least then we'll have an actual machine to discuss instead of countless pages of speculation and arguing ComputerBash.gif.gif

Put me down for two.

Jpop has long been a flake. Most creative people are. They almost always need teams around them and management above them to keep them on task and heading toward the goal, as they're often unable to manage time and cost sensitive projects by themselves.

When Ben left the project very early, I could tell that it was doomed. I feel sorry for people who lost money in this ordeal but the writing was on the wall years ago.

For as much good is going on in pinball, 2015 is a sad, sad year for pinball.

He should have warned the pinball community at that point...it might have saved some people of few bucks.

How does this effect Chris at Cointaker? They were deep in BHZA.

This letter came from John 01-25-2015:

Hi Bas,

I am not sure what people are thinking. Pinball has always been
hard and controversial even at WMS. Us designers have always had
to "battle" the forces, all my games have bad events. But we leave
those in the past, as today all that has been created came from
nothing, just our imaginations. Which is amazing as I see it everyday
and it is "Divine" presence in the studio. There is no other explanation.

Did you see the Adobe® piece? It captured the feel and we are really
caretakers of pinball, and it demands us to be really great. I will send
you more art this week from MG so you can see more as we get the full
games ready to do "good" photographs.

We had our main cabinet vendor (prints the art) go down in December so
we have had to find a new vendor. Actually found 2 so we are delayed but
in better long position. But these games are my best work, and i am very
proud to show all. Dennis Nordman and Cameron Silver visited this last
week (to check up on me) and were floored. They could not believe the
progress of the games and how beautiful they are and creative.

They left without words, and yes my family and myself are fully dedicated.

John

What do you guys think about this letter? especially the part of nordman and silver being floored by the progress????

The part that they left without words,i can imagine!

Thanks for being a "caretaker of pinball".

I immediately cross referenced this with John's blog post from January 10, 2015:

Mystery Guest

In pinball there is a finite list of great artists, designers and software guru’s who have climbed the mountain of pinball making. Well I was able to spend time this afternoon with one of them, and will begin the process of paperwork and project spec. writing needed for them joining the software team. I will make the official announcement when I am able to properly. Jpop

So, the "mystery guest" was Cameron Silver.... I wonder if he knew that, just like the FAST/Mission guys didn't realize they were signed up and blogged about?

Obviously nothing came of this. 5 Months passed before the game was handed over to Pintasia and nothing was worked on. More BS for the blog.

And John thinks everyone was out to get him and killed his game.

Narcissist.

We could clearly see in the Adobe video, which was shot in December, 3 prototype cabinets sitting there. So this December delay was more misdirection. And if he was "Redoing" the cabinets that he already had there, burning more cash, as the game sat incomplete.... well, it becomes clearer and clearer just had bad the waste was.

7 months ago, John revealed to us that he was still in the very early development stage that's when I knew it was over.

Being an employee of a company and designing stuff is a lot more difficult than running the entire show, guess John figured that out.

From many of the comments, it is not clear that John even figured the above out... sad as that sounds. Its all everybody else's fault you know!

John is the ONLY problem here. I resisted this for a long time because I wanted to see these machines and the work I put into them. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I liked him. It's not like it was a pleasure working with him all the time, bear in mind. Whether I was being delusional or selfish, I'm getting a pretty clear picture now thanks to the last few weeks.

One question keeps coming back to me: If John could lie for years purporting to be doing the art himself, why would I think he would be honest about ANYTHING? Or capable to DO anything himself? It saddens me to even think some of what i now do about him - but the evidence is pretty overwhelming.

So I probably shouldn't share this - but I think it's important because Bill will catch hell from some here regardless of the showing at NW - BUT here goes... The prototype - John's LAST ditch effort to prove himself and possibly earn an ounce of goodwill back to his toxic reputation - was all based on pure horse excrement...

John said it would be ready by last weekend. It wasn't. Monday? Not even close. Tuesday? Nope.... Bill was taken for a ride in this, albeit an extended one by comparison to most - based on the info John presented and trusting it. BUT he pushed through - a team of local owners came in to dig John out and get something out of nothing over the past days. That team got it functioning at 2am this morning. Right now the machine is leaving Chicago for NW.

Unfortunately in all of this, and personal circumstances beyond my control, I won't be riding or attending NW afterall. It saddens me because I wanted to see MG just once in a working form and buy Bill & anyone involved a few rounds of drinks.

Argue that it was futile all you want - but at least someone tried. It definitely wasn't John.

For the record - i hope I'm wrong - but I'm so beyond frustrated at this stage fro all the stories I'm hearing... just venting

Yes a big thanks to everyone who got it done. It will be nice to see a demo of what could be done.

sorry you will not be able to see it flipping in person.

Reality is that as a contractor that is owed money if you open a case now you can likely be a secured debtor which means you go to the front of the line for payment. Maybe you can get a game for all your efforts.

Funniest screenshot of that seminar.

jpop.png

Really sickening, bad enough he was so far behind at last years Expo, but then he said he'd have a Lebowski reveal the next month. It's been 7 months and he was no closer to a full prototype.

There's a saying John obviously never heard. 'When you find yourself in a hole the first thing you need to do is stop digging!'.

Not that it matters - but it was shot 1 week before thanksgiving in November. When I asked John if he would allow me to come out so i could finally show the work I had been doing I was SHOCKED that he said yes.

I now know why... I've learned since that it had everything to do with him realizing he needed more money and he was starting to seek out a buyer. So, it was once again about benefiting him in hindsight...

Back when John parted ways ways with me the project didn't seem so dire. Though I do recall a couple MGC's / expos in a row him saying "Oh yeah I might have something at the this show..." and I wondered why he never had anything to show even after two years!

Yeti's story sounds legit. Before anyone brings up the 3 MG in cabinets from the Abode video, heard from many a person those were just mockups to look impressive on camera.

The bottom line is that John NEVER intended to create a pinball manufacturing company. He NEVER thought of the money as money being paid for an actual pinball machine.

John felt he was building a pinball design company. That's why he was so delusional. That's why he felt everything was fine. That's why everything was about the "love of pinball." He felt everyone "got it" that they were giving him money to further develop pinball. Getting a game was not a responsibility, it would be a bonus.

He truly believed that somebody would buy his business or build the games for people as part of a licensing deal. That's what he thinks is happening right now. Bill has licensed the games so Bill should build them. John feels he has done his part. He is shocked that people would actually sue him.

In the meanwhile, John will go back to tinkering in the laboratory "for the love of pinball." He will continue to defend his actions and will blame the community for how they have hurt him. It's really a sad situation.

Bummer! I was really looking forward to meeting you

I totally agree with you, but didn't John himself send out a contract to us, the contract spelled out in detail with a timeline, payment schedule and actually said he'd deliver a pinball machine at the end of that time (4th quarter 2013 was the date if I recall.)