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(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

6 years ago



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#1151 5 years ago

http://gamecenter.nyu.edu/three-questions-with-john-popadiuk/

Jpop posted this link on facebook. An interview in three questions with jpop. In one of the questions, the interviewer says you have magic girl to be released in 2015 and retro zombie to be released in 2016.

#1152 5 years ago

Same concerns... He mentions the playfield which he may keep. That decision needs to be made to move forward.

#1153 5 years ago

So since no one follows the schedule for delays and what not magic girl will be the end of 2015 and raza will never get made cause he will have run out of money by then...

#1154 5 years ago

When u hear 2016 that doesn't mean 125 games appear in January, your basically two years away on raza that's crazy

#1155 5 years ago

In that interview he mentions a "MakerBot Pinball" as well. I wonder how many he has on the go now?

#1156 5 years ago

He "wears a jock and flame proof underwear to work"

#1157 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

http://gamecenter.nyu.edu/three-questions-with-john-popadiuk/
Jpop posted this link on facebook. An interview in three questions with jpop. In one of the questions, the interviewer says you have magic girl to be released in 2015 and retro zombie to be released in 2016.

Well, this is exactly what I'm talking about... I've been asking what YEAR i might see my game and a timetable. Abd the reality of building 100+ machines outside of a factory environment. So, what, 2017 when I get my game then? It said Q4 2013 in my owner's package and never an update since then. This is shitty.

John has provided no other info or answers. I have to guess that this is the timeline then.

#1158 5 years ago

It is frustrating to see these release dates given to an interviewer and the casual mention of an additional project without any of this info going to owners.

#1159 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Well, this is exactly what I'm talking about... I've been asking what YEAR i might see my game and a timetable. Abd the reality of building 100+ machines outside of a factory environment. So, what, 2017 when I get my game then? It said Q4 2013 in my owner's package and never an update since then. This is shitty.
John has provided no other info or answers. I have to guess that this is the timeline then.

Yep, it appears 2016 looks like the current timetable for Raza. Way ahead of a lot of people's guestimates

Maybe a new "muscle" partner will alter that timeline.

This ought to cause quite the shitshow tonight.

#1160 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

It is frustrating to see these release dates given to an interviewer and the casual mention of an additional project without any of this info going to owners.

Also, John goes and makes Kiss for no one and leaves the paying customers hanging in the wind, and I believe (likely) he used our money to finance Kiss.

John is making Kevin (Skit-B) look good and that takes a lot of doing.

#1161 5 years ago

what a complete nightmare...

#1162 5 years ago

I wouldn't read too much into those dates. I think the interviewer googled the games and came across the Pinside listings. Both of those dates appear in the Pinside game info:

https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/magic-girl
https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/ben-hecks-zombie-adventureland

#1163 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

http://gamecenter.nyu.edu/three-questions-with-john-popadiuk/
Jpop posted this link on facebook. An interview in three questions with jpop. In one of the questions, the interviewer says you have magic girl to be released in 2015 and retro zombie to be released in 2016.

What's interesting is that the 2016 quote, as you say, comes in the form of the question, not in JPop's response.

So where did the 2016 date come from?

Jpop didn't correct him though, so.....

#1164 5 years ago

"John is making Kevin (Skit-B) look good and that takes a lot of doing."

Haha, yep in some ways I suppose so but as bad as it is I still wouldn't want to be in Predator land.

#1165 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

John is making Kevin (Skit-B) look good and that takes a lot of doing.

I wouldn't go that far! At least we have an owners blog with info and pics.

#1166 5 years ago
Quoted from Redeyes:

what a complete nightmare...

Yep. Nothing like thinking you just sent someone $6500 with only a slim chance of not losing your money

#1167 5 years ago

I'm so frustrated with this whole situation. I have more of a stomach for pre-orders than almost anyone, but this situation is just starting to piss me off. 2016?

I'm at the point where I'm basically considering my payment lost money and if the game ever gets made, I'll consider it a windfall.

Between this and finding out BoP 2.0 is shipping with really incomplete code has been a double kick in the ass this week!

#1168 5 years ago

Well u can bet pats game will ship before raza

#1169 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

I'm so frustrated with this whole situation. I have more of a stomach for pre-orders than almost anyone, but this situation is just starting to piss me off. 2016?

I'm at the point where I'm basically considering my payment lost money and if the game ever gets made, I'll consider it a windfall.

Between this and finding out BoP 2.0 is shipping with really incomplete code has been a double kick in the ass this week!

And BoP 2.0 is coming from Dutch Pinball right?

The thing that is the most aggravating of all, Frolic said it above and I've said it a thousand times, when you use a Timeline in our original packets to sell everybody, yes I know there are unforeseen difficulties, but that timeline indicated we would have DELIVERY of our pins by Q4 of 2013 and it won't be now until some time in 2016, with no real timeline status updates along the way!

That is truly amazing my friends. Then you have a guy like SkitB build a following and 250 orders on Pinside, communicate as a pinhead himself, only to go into hiding like he's Osama Bin Laden.

Stern, well, no commentary needed there. Jack and JJP, at least it seems they are trying to fix issues and communicate.

I swear I've never seen anything like it. Pinball people have the greatest lack of self awareness that I've ever seen.

#1170 5 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

Yep. Nothing like thinking you just sent someone $6500 with only a slim chance of not losing your money

I know you're all frustrated and I hope things still all work out but I think it might be about time that you demand you money back. If you don't get it immediately it may be time to star liberally using the term "lawyer up".

QSS

#1171 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I swear I've never seen anything like it. Pinball people have the greatest lack of self awareness that I've ever seen.

Says the dude with 25 preorders.

Sorry Ice, couldn't resisit!!

Still keen on that Xmas 2015 bet?

rd.

#1172 5 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Says the dude with 25 preorders.
Sorry Ice, couldn't resisit!!
Still keen on that Xmas 2015 bet?
rd.

I'll let you know in a month RD Yeah I know, I'm the pre order king, although I did actually drop TH

#1173 5 years ago

Getting thirsty, Dave?

#1174 5 years ago

Reminds me of all the bitching I was doing yesterday after getting a speeding ticket.......self inflicted you say, dammit I hate it when you are right!

#1175 5 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Getting thirsty, Dave?

Oooooh yeah, Icemans beer tastes sweeeeeet.

rd.

#1177 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

DELIVERY of our pins by Q4 of 2013 and it won't be now until some time in 2016

I think 2016 is a reasonable assumption for RAZA at this point. JPOP has said that his plan is to have "Lebowski" type reveal of MG in December 2014. Dutch Pinball revealed TBL 7-9 months ahead their self imposed production start (Q2 2015). Assuming JPOP can stick to the same schedule (highly unlikely given his current organization's size) he will not begin production on MG until Q4 of 2015. During ramp up to and actual production I am guessing that he he will have less than zero time to devote to RAZA and AIW; which will push their schedules even further out.

All of this could change if he is able to secure the hinted partnership with a third party that can provide the muscle to push production forward. Otherwise, I would say that the above schedule may even be a bit optimistic given JPOP's track record for wanting to achieve perfection at every level.

It has been said before (probably somewhere in this very thread) but John really needs an equal collaborator. Someone who is willing to say when something is good enough or that it is time to move on from an idea that is never going to come to fruition. I think having a team of designers and collaborators has helped DP get to where they are with TBL much faster than John has with any of his three projects. They have been willing to give up on certain design elements that they just could not make work and focus on the end goal much more efficiently.

I really hope that John can find a partner to help him become an efficient, productive visionary and not, instead, wind up a genius tinkerer who was never able to see his designs become a reality. He is one of only a handful of people in this business who wants to always look ahead and push the pinball envelope.

#1178 5 years ago

I dug up the timeline from the owner's package.

Basically, we're 50% done the process, as outlined by the milestones.

We're somewhere around:

Playfield Whitewood
Software Start

Whitewood / Software Start is on the schedule as Q4 2012. By this schedule, there is at least a year left if everything goes perfect and we ignore how slowly everything has gone so far.

I get that a lot of groundwork has been done. I also get that John created every part from scratch instead of using off-the-shelf. But all of that came at extreme cost, especially time.

The biggest crime is the lack of communication, the lack of posting updated timelines, the lack of answers. I think everyone is very understanding, hell, we collectively have allowed the project to slide as much as it has without saying too much about it, but at some point the rubber has to meet the road.

#1179 5 years ago

And just to think we all thought Jack was taking to long on WOZ.

#1180 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I dug up the timeline from the owner's package.

Basically, we're 50% done the process, as outlined by the milestones.

Is this for MG? Just out of curiosity, what were the initial milestones and their respective projected completion dates? For AIW, there was no timeline provided to me, at all.

Quoted from frolic:

at some point the rubber has to meet the road.

Right on, man!

#1181 5 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

Is this for MG? Just out of curiosity, what were the initial milestones and their respective projected completion dates? For AIW, there was no timeline provided to me, at all.

This is for RAZA, I'm not a MG buyer so I don't know what timeline they have, but it was started before RAZA so it would be even longer ago.

I can recall a conversation with John around Christmas 2012 that he was working on the MG prototypes and would have them ready for Spring 2013. This information gave me confidence in my RAZA ownership, that everything was coming together. This December MG reveal seems to be what he was shooting for Spring 2013.

I also wonder what could have gone so wrong, that something he was working towards 3 months down the road becomes 2 years later.

The saddest thing about all this, is I'm so over it. There is no fun left. The arrival of my game will be "it's about goddam time".

You can call me a ballbreaker, but when you sign onto something with a dozen page contract and a schedule, the impression is that they have their shit together so waiting years past the delivery point, I think I can be excused for my attitude.

#1182 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

The saddest thing about all this, is I'm so over it. There is no fun left.

I think a lot of us got that feeling for WOZ. I dropped out relatively early, too - I can't imagine what it was like for those still waiting for their games to the bitter end - especially LE buyers who saw Standars shipping first and the Ruby Red reveal. The only pre-orders I'm on right now are MMr and BOP 2.0, and those have had their delays...but at least I know they're right around the corner. European customers are getting their BOP 2.0s & I've played MMr and have seen it at Stern.

It'll be interesting to see Jpop's "Lebowski-esque" reveal...perhaps the true make it or break it point for you guys with money on his projects.

EDIT: I forgot I also have Lebowski pre-ordered....thanks Aurich for catching me in a senile moment lol

#1183 5 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

I think 2016 is a reasonable assumption for RAZA at this point. JPOP has said that his plan is to have "Lebowski" type reveal of MG in December 2014. Dutch Pinball revealed TBL 7-9 months ahead their self imposed production start (Q2 2015). Assuming JPOP can stick to the same schedule (highly unlikely given his current organization's size) he will not begin production on MG until Q4 of 2015. During ramp up to and actual production I am guessing that he he will have less than zero time to devote to RAZA and AIW; which will push their schedules even further out.
All of this could change if he is able to secure the hinted partnership with a third party that can provide the muscle to push production forward. Otherwise, I would say that the above schedule may even be a bit optimistic given JPOP's track record for wanting to achieve perfection at every level.
It has been said before (probably somewhere in this very thread) but John really needs an equal collaborator. Someone who is willing to say when something is good enough or that it is time to move on from an idea that is never going to come to fruition. I think having a team of designers and collaborators has helped DP get to where they are with TBL much faster than John has with any of his three projects. They have been willing to give up on certain design elements that they just could not make work and focus on the end goal much more efficiently.
I really hope that John can find a partner to help him become an efficient, productive visionary and not, instead, wind up a genius tinkerer who was never able to see his designs become a reality. He is one of only a handful of people in this business who wants to always look ahead and push the pinball envelope.

Hard to find a partner to take on half the debt when there's no profit left. Unless he increase the build quantity.

#1184 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I think a lot of us got that feeling for WOZ. I dropped out relatively early, too - I can't imagine what it was like for those still waiting for their games to the bitter end - especially LE buyers who saw Standars shipping first and the Ruby Red reveal. The only pre-orders I'm on right now are MMr and BOP 2.0, and those have had their delays...but at least I know they're right around the corner. European customers are getting their BOP 2.0s & I've played MMr and have seen it at Stern.
It'll be interesting to see Jpop's "Lebowski-esque" reveal...perhaps the true make it or break it point for you guys with money on his projects.

So a reveal of a working but not completed code mg in December will pump people up... Still a long way to go and a lot of money to build them... Plus raza will get shelved while he over sees mg builds... Raza is so down the road it's sad...

#1185 5 years ago

Predator is also a couple years late iirc

#1186 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

So a reveal of a working but not completed code mg in December will pump people up... Still a long way to go and a lot of money to build them... Plus raza will get shelved while he over sees mg builds... Raza is so down the road it's sad...

Well as far as I can tell, all he has is art and gadgets. If he can actually show that he's capable of a game that flips the ball...that would go a long way. Sure, the game's still probably 10 years from completion, but I think that would calm the secret club at least.

#1187 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Well as far as I can tell, all he has is art and gadgets. If he can actually show that he's capable of a game that flips the ball...that would go a long way. Sure, the game's still probably 10 years from completion, but I think that would calm the secret club at least.

Yes from what I have seen play field arts done, cabinets done, play field plastics done, ramps done... Proto boards done, I'm guessing code to make it a flipping game is issue? Will be beautiful when he gets there. At least there will be three proto done for real

#1188 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Predator is also a couple years late iirc

May be we should create a support group (thread) uniting all that are waiting for games beyond expected announced release...

Basically everyone buying NIB pins from any company, besides Stern and Spooky. Right ?

#1189 5 years ago

I have a great idea... Give me $10k we'll go around back, ill kick u in the nuts and we can call it a day?

Fuck lol

#1190 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Hard to find a partner to take on half the debt when there's no profit left. Unless he increase the build quantity.

So true. Increasing the build quantity may be the only play left here for acquiring a partner. And, let's face it, John cannot build the 200+ games he has committed to with his current staff level. I believe it was RD who speculated that he could only build 1 a week tops at current capacity. Hell, that is an entire year just for MG production alone and five more for RAZA and AIW.

#1191 5 years ago

When Zid's games finally release they are gonna be worth their weight in gold. If someone could honestly say that about WOZ I'll do a back flip~

#1192 5 years ago

The saddest thing about all this, is I'm so over it. There is no fun left. The arrival of my game will be "it's about goddam time".

This how I feel now too. When I got in, I thought that I was taking a risk so that a machine that would not otherwise exist would end up existing. Hopefully that machine would be followed by many more from the company I helped get off of the ground. Now I am in and don't have the option of getting out.

Given the lack of communication, I have no confidence that there will be good support for a machine for which I can not buy off the shelf parts.

The reveal of a flipping whitewood prototype of the machine that has to be made before the one I am waiting for is unlikely to re-kindle my excitement in this project.

#1193 5 years ago

Well, wish in one hand, shit in the other; see which one fills up first.

#1194 5 years ago

My biggest concern for John, knowing what any investor would want in return, is whether or not there is any chicken left on the bone to give away. Not sure how he is going to reconcile all that.

I'm afraid, after all these "partner discussions", that he could be right back where he started, which may not end up being a bad thing, and just realize that he has to step on the gas and get these pins done.

#1195 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

Given the lack of communication, I have no confidence that there will be good support for a machine for which I can not buy off the shelf parts.

I have grave concerns about this as well. All these custom parts, how do they benefit us? And what happens when we need them? Is the pain-in-the-ass value of that to us worth it?

#1196 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

All these custom parts, how do they benefit us?

They don't! All it has done is push these games farther and farther from their original delivery date. Part of what makes this such a viable hobby is that standard parts for 20+ year old machines are still being produced and are readily available. What will happen 20 years after these machines are produced if the custom flipper assembly breaks. It is very frustrating to try and find the 5 -10 % of custom parts for older games now. I can only imagine what it will be like to have a game with 90+% custom parts. Let's hope the 3D printing revolution saves us by then.

Support worries me too. What will happen if these games have an issue like the light boards in WOZ. We could be waiting ages for that type of fix.

#1197 5 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

So true. Increasing the build quantity may be the only play left here for acquiring a partner. And, let's face it, John cannot build the 200+ games he has committed to with his current staff level. I believe it was RD who speculated that he could only build 1 a week tops at current capacity. Hell, that is an entire year just for MG production alone and five more for RAZA and AIW.

Yeah .. I don't want to be pessimistic but I am a realist.

It takes me a week to *shop* a game fully. And that's an RD week which is anywhere from 60-80 hours working time. Not 40 hours a week like a guy on a shop floor.

I honestly don't think that a really anal OCD guy could build a machine from scratch in a month, let alone a week.

The only way these machines are gonna happen ever is if the production gets sent out to someone.

rd.

#1198 5 years ago

John needs to cut a deal with JJP. They need a designer and he needs production.

Ok problem solved! Happy times

#1199 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

I'm at the point where I'm basically considering my payment lost money and if the game ever gets made, I'll consider it a windfall.

Quoted from frolic:

The saddest thing about all this, is I'm so over it. There is no fun left. The arrival of my game will be "it's about goddam time".

This is where I'm at too. I've pretty much stopped checking the blog, especially once I learned it was a courtesy blog and not a owners forum like I thought. I'd say that I just don't care anymore, but that's not completely true I'm actually upset and bitter about the whole experience. I will NEVER do this again.

#1200 5 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

When Zid's games finally release they are gonna be worth their weight in gold. If someone could honestly say that about WOZ I'll do a back flip~

IF they finally release

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