The Pinside beta already fixes that, so don't worry, that will be addressed soon I would think.

You keep beating this horse... go back to this post

The tradeoff for John here is Pintasia works to relieve the pressure of the guys seeking games and someone putting up the up front money to keep the project moving. Pintasia puts up money, John gets a stay of execution. That's whats in it for John and why he would be motivated to license the game's work for no up front money. The upside for Pintasia is... trying to get the game made, and maybe, just maybe, an avenue to help people recover some of their losses.

And since I disagree with you I'm stupid too. Glad we got that straight.

My point is that you've gone way past concern and discussion right into assertion and prognosticating, and yep, calling people stupid.

Long story short: possible, depending on how he set it up and what method of incorporation he used. But unlikely. The protections are there for a reason. Small businesses start up and fail with investor money every day.

I too met and talked with Bill & Sabrina at Pin-a-go-go. I truly felt they had the passion & desire to see this moved forward. I applaud them for their efforts so far, and I see great progress in just the past week.

I was initially in on IPB BBB back in 2004. Gene initially said final payment due when game was completed. Then about 1/2 way thru, he needed all to pony up the balance "Pay in Full". I did, as did I believe everyone else. That was a leap of faith. I believe we need similar faith in Bill. Plus, he's not asking for $$$ up front. Thank You!

It is brave of you to take that leap of faith and I assume you are wealthy enough that if you lost 16k it would not impact your life. That's cool and I'm sure Bill certainly appreciates it.

However, convincing others to take that same leap faith without discussing or acknowledging the serious and very real risks involved (and without knowing their own financial condition) is irresponsible IMO.

2:30-2:45 my favorite part. a little levity for you all.

Ok, unless Jpop was growing money trees for the last four years... what positive cash flow do you think he's had over that time period?

What does that mean... the pile of money can only be LESS than what people put in. Given it's been FOUR YEARS of full time work by many people, rent, lawyers, accountants, contractors, etc.. its obvious that a LOT of money has been spent.

So no matter how much money is left.. its gonna be a lot LESS than what each person put in.. because no one else was putting money in... and they didn't sell anything to bring money in.

In what fantasy world do people live in that they think over four years the guy hasn't spent a large portion of the money?
Even at just a couple grand a month.. his studio would have cost him more than 100k over the time period. Figure he pays himself at least 100k.. that's another 400k. At $5000 x 200 people on average that's 1million. These rough numbers half of that money is gone before they've done anything.. and there's been lots of people, travel, parts, etc all involved in this.

Let's be optmistic and think there is 25% of the money left.. so on average people maybe get $1k back.. but then you forgot all the lawyers and everyone else inbetween.

My point being is... people keep screaming 'where is the money' - It's been four years of activity with zero income. Why would you be surprised to hear there is little left to recover?

They could still keep the license. The royalty fees would help satisfy outstanding creditors.

So nobody has actually seen the books?

I know.. shocking news update for pinsiders I guess

Given all the formalities John dragged everyone through, including his 'customers', why on earth would he not be just as anal as making sure he had adequate protections for his personal self??

Reality check people... John was lawyer happy... don't think he wouldn't be covering his own ass first.

Please list out the private companies that have opened their books to pinsiders...

Again, use some common sense. What has the company been running off of for years?

I think I know most of this story but can someone point me to the cliff notes? Jpop took money and didn't build a machine, then went broke. That about sum it up? How many lost how much?

I tried to read this thread but my brain went numb.

Chris Kruger

I'd want to see the books as JPOP said in his beautiful letter. Not take someones speculation on here as fact. Thats why id already have an attorney hired if i had skin in this game. The sums of money being discussed here are to big for me to take a leap of faith and speculate.

No, they'd have to secure the license under the court's discretion first... a much more daunting (and potentially expensive) venture vs the deal they probably cut now.

If the license is seen as an asset with value.. the court would require action be taken that would return the most value to the creditors.

The Pintasia deal is a 'try before you buy' deal... that they can back out of. That's not return to creditors if they backout.

He built a machine..
00-kiss1.jpg

So, you propose a bankruptcy that is indefinite and runs into perpetuity? That isn't how this work. That isn't how any of this works. The trustee will gather all assets, publish and invite all real creditors, choose a course of action that maximizes the satisfaction of the hard creditors (those with outstanding and unpaid bills for services and goods provided), and then throw the scraps to the convenience creditors (those suing for personal damages). Any asset with value is going to be on th auction block for all to bid upon and buy - including any tangible properties, intellectual properties, and/or rights to same. The trustee is not letting Pintasia have a perpetual license to produce MG. MG is being sold for whatever value it has, including all rights that run along with it. Pintasia could just intend to wait around for the year or so that the process would take, and hope they can get the assets in auction. Or they could attempt to avoid having the assets forced into a bankruptcy proceeding altogether.

Pretty much it up until the Pintasia part. The rest is about 10k posts of verbal masturbation.

What it feels like entering this thread at this point in the game

11GzN8qjZkDdUk.gif

Or try this......

Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!

That's funny!

Chris Kruger

Bwahaha! I was thinking the same thing. Especially for something as simple as "wtf".

As a Predator buyer at this point I'd love to have somebody step in and try to salvage the project. Unless Kevin suddenly decides to give back my money. Paypal, my bank, the local police, the Michigan police and the FBI have all pretty much said too bad its gone.

This definitely looks like a hail Mary play, but i would kill for a hail Mary play for the Predator situation.

Is there a "Zidware members only Club" post that discusses this latest development? This thread is outta control.. there seems to be a LOT of people fanning flames apparently just for the sake of creating tension, and it's very disappointing. Frankly I wonder how many of them actually have a "horse in this race". I among others have a LOT of time and money invested in this project (both as a customer and as a supplier) is it too much to ask to simply have a civilized discussion about it?

I mean no insult, I'm just saying that we buyers and suppliers have some very difficult decisions to make, and it's tough to sift through the white noise to really study our options.

There's a private Facebook group that might meet your needs. Not sure who the admin is though.

It's been said already but it's worth repeating. We all do. I may not have money on this game, but I have friends who do. It hurts me to see them hurt/stressed/taken advantage of. It sours the hobby for all of us.

Oh that kiss machine right. So how does one get funding for that?
Personal salary funds? Or was it was something to keep the company going? More business? So corporate funds?
No license so that is that just to show off his talents? Or made as a fan favorite?
That likely took some time effort and funds.
But that would not be considered mismanagement of funds??

I would look into "believe", that's thrown out there endlessly. People need to see the accounting books to see what can be believed! Seems like a Fantasy World over the last 4+ years. Don't see space & salary = $1 million or more. But I have no money in on any of Jpop's games. Needs a forensic audit of the books or what has been suggested as expenditures. I'm still trying to figure out all the contractors owed money. I have had contractors totally screw up work for me, & I have still paid either some or all the amount billed.

There was no funding. In another bone-head move, Jpop made this game thinking it could get him the Kiss license. Total waste of time and money.

sometimes quoting is just to make sure the verbal barf of a business talking in the 3rd person does not evaporate. Simple way to hold it for posterity (may or may not be needed at a later date as nobody can predict what will happen on this train)

This is now the topic with the most posts on Pinside! Here's hoping it has an ending that is good for all of those involved!

...or, he was auditioning for a role with a bigger pinball company that would actually get that license.

And I totally respect that Greg, I really do.. I meant a place for buyers and suppliers alike to discuss how we're all going to handle this moving forward.

It is by far the most interesting story in pinball.

It lines up with my assumption John has spent the last couple years trying to get bought out rather than build a f'ing pinball.

He's been auditioning for a gig and hoping someone with an assembly line brought him on and his games. Pat took his garage game to JJP. Pop was just adding games to his garage haul until someone bit. KISS license was a home run swing. If he could wow them and secure that, Uncle Gary had to come a callin'.

Yes, he actually mentioned it on the phone with me last year. He was hoping JJP OR Stern would buy him out.

He obviously never listened to the Topcast episode with George Gomez. Gomez made it very clear that he blamed John for effing up SW1 and not using the Pinball2000 platform competently. There was no ambiguity to his feelings toward JPOP. George wasn't signing off on bringing him into the Stern fold.

Amazing!! I wonder if that was his plan from the very start?

He also took his fully working "wrecking ball" garage game to williams back in the day to get a job
65[1].jpg
66[1].jpg

2012, I was on a panel at CAX.

At this time I was still associated with John, RAZA was still BHZA and had actual zombies, I hadn't announced AMH, etc.

John Skypes in, talks about games, how he's doing it best, yada yada yada.

Gerry Stellenberg is sitting next to me, whispers RE John "Somebody's looking for a job!"

Seemed like a harsh statement at the time but looking back, Gerry was right.

Maybe John took in all this money just so Stern would take him seriously?

I think it became his plan when he saw how fast the money was evaporating.

For those that haven't heard this, here's a link to the Gomez Topcast episode:
http://www.pinrepair.com/topcast/showget.php?id=40

Skip to the 1:53:20 mark to hear Gomez go off on JPOP & SWEP1.

There were 3 mentions of JPOP total I recall from listening to the TopCast episodes recently. One was above, one was from Python, and I forgot the 3rd. None were positive.

uwot.gif

I couldn't remember how Python fell on him. Python liked "artists", so I was thinking that he liked Pop's ingenuity. But he might have thrown him into the Useless Fraud Shuckster category. It was one or the other with Python. Artist and Genius or Worthless F@*+.