(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#11201 4 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

Spooky Pinball's new pin is that the artwork is going to knock our socks off!

spooky won't ship to europe,i wanted to order(netherlands),but i couldn't??

#11202 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Guys, this is JOHN POPADIUK. The man was a literal god in pinball.

Puuuuullllleease!! If there ever was such a thing, it wasn't him. He has, however, achieved a different kind of legendary status in the Pinball world, but I wouldn't brag about it.

-1
#11203 4 years ago
Quoted from Honch:

Puuuuullllleeasee!! If there ever was such a thing, it wasn't him. He has, however, achieved a different kind of legendary status in the Pinball world, but I wouldn't brag about it.

Well, I've gone on record that I'm not a huge fan of Jpop's games, but I won't dispute that he was considered one of the best. My favorite game of his is WCS, probably because it's a bit more challenging than the rest of his stuff, but there's no denying that he made the best looking games ever. Yes, he put out some games with shallow and simple rules, but if you had a gun to your head and you needed to provide a pinball machine that was going to impress someone you didn't know, I would bet that TOTAN or ToM would be on your shortlist of options.

11
#11204 4 years ago
Quoted from jwo825:

I just can't see how this is good for anyone but the original MG buyers. Everyone is being asked to pay more so those original 16 buyers can maybe get their game? Maybe i'm just not grasping it, but if I'm not one of the original MG buyers, i'm telling everyone to pack sand and hiring a lawyer to bury JPop.

yes, that's my post in a nut shell. If you don't want to read my wall of words just read this post.

The money's gone (that's what I hear)

So how is it a good deal for RAZA and AIW owners to pay 2.5x more new money? It's not.

#11205 4 years ago

I am curious to know what everyone thinks Zidware is worth today?

I know the number is ZERO if you include outstanding debts. What if it went through bankruptcy and the whole thing is up for auction today? The protos, cabinets, toys, art, patents, IP and trademarks.

What do you think it's worth?

#11206 4 years ago
Quoted from jwo825:

I just can't see how this is good for anyone but the original MG buyers. Everyone is being asked to pay more so those original 16 buyers can maybe get their game? Maybe i'm just not grasping it, but if I'm not one of the original MG buyers, i'm telling everyone to pack sand and hiring a lawyer to bury JPop.

Where this deal falls flat is the requirement to throw good money in after bad... I think many of the original pre-order buyers have already written off most of their money as a loss but I really think it's going to be next to impossible to ask them to send in additional money (Could be $4K or more) and then ask them to wait for several more years' just isn't going to happen! The pre-order is dead thanks to JPop and Skit-B. In order for this to work Pintasia is going to have to fund production on his own under the promise that they original owner's hold off suing, and then they have the option to buy once the game is actually built, using their credits from before.

#11207 4 years ago
Quoted from BackFlipper:

What do you think it's worth?

His physical assets are worth almost nothing in regards to real world value. In a collector community, they might be worth more, but I don't know that a court would assign much value to what he has.

10
#11208 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Well, I've gone on record that I'm not a huge fan of Jpop's games, but I won't dispute that he was considered one of the best. My favorite game of his is WCS, probably because it's a bit more challenging than the rest of his stuff, but there's no denying that he made the best looking games ever. Yes, he put out some games with shallow and simple rules, but if you had a gun to your head and you needed to provide a pinball machine that was going to impress someone you didn't know, I would bet that TOTAN or ToM would be on your shortlist of options.

Your favorite game of his was the one that had to be finished by other people. The other games you mentioned were also team efforts, including the fact that he didn't do the art.

No need to drag him down, but also no reason to put him on a pedestal. Steve Ritchie and Lyman Sheats can have pinball god status if there's such a thing, John doesn't get to hang out on their level.

#11209 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Yes, he put out some games with shallow and simple rules, but if you had a gun to your head and you needed to provide a pinball machine that was going to impress someone you didn't know, I would bet that TOTAN or ToM would be on your shortlist of options.

Only if you're using artwork as the measuring stick and he didn't draw the artwork, so it's a moot point. Besides, I'd go with Monster Bash in that scenario. Better artwork and toys than any JPOP games IMO.

#11210 4 years ago

Lastly, these pins are NOT worth $16K.

Pintasia keeps that number so that he has a convenient figure and to make up for the refunds. The pins are not going to be limited to 13 or 26. They are going to be made in much higher numbers. John even alluded to the lower cost 'classic version' or whatever he called it. The only people paying $16K would be the people who are strong armed into signing the agreement to pay $16K. Others (those who can wait and see, can pay less for a low cost game with all the same functionality).

So to appear like you are getting a refund (if you are a RAZA owner it appears like you are getting $6K off, but really you are just getting a $10K pin for an additional $10K new money).

#11211 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

yes, that's my post in a nut shell. If you don't want to read my wall of words just read this post.
The money's gone (that's what I hear)
So how is it a good deal for RAZA and AIW owners to pay 2.5x more new money? It's not.

Ha. Your post actually wasn't there while I was typing. Should have hit refresh and I wouldn't have posted at all. Yours was a lot more informative. I don't think you need to be very business savvy to see that RAZA/AIW buyers will be left holding the bag.

I mean, if the pinball community is that eager to piss away money, i'll start my company today. I will take your cash deposits immediately and promise to not make you shit. The end result will be the same as sinking money into this scam but I promise to give daily updates reassuring you that you will never get shit, if it will convince you to give the money to me instead.

11
#11213 4 years ago

Apologies to Zombie Yeti as his work is great, but its a joke so much effort was put on the art with so much of the game not done.

There is a reason traditional development leaves art to the very end, and John confirmed his way is the way to failure.

#11214 4 years ago

All is forgiven!!!

Looks cool. Where do I send my several thousands of dollars?

11
#11216 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It's funny how this thread has over 11,000 posts, and really no one has even spent a moment speculating about the rules. How the game will shoot. Anything that's the actual "pinball" part.
It sort of tells the whole story really.
I guess we'll find out soon enough either way.

That's how Skit-B went down. Earlier on people did discuss features and gameplay. As the project began tipping tipping tipping NOSEDIVE people stopped talking about whether or not it would be any good in favor of whether or not it would even get made.

Notice, also, no one is talking about post-sales support. If you have another JJP lightboard scenario, what's the outcome?

I think people have the sense this is a hail mary but I'm not sure if they realize how far back the goal posts have moved. Right now they look pressed up against the nacho stand in the upper deck.

mmm...nachos.

#11217 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Apologies to Zombie Yeti as his work is great, but its a joke so much effort was put on the art with so much of the game not done.
There is a reason traditional development leaves art to the very end, and John confirmed his way is the way to failure.

this is so true. Great art, but IMO putting the cart before the horse. White wood shooting, that should come first, then mock-up basic art, then final polished art. That makes more sense to me, but what do I know? I don't have 30 years in the industry like John.

#11218 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

I think people have the sense this is a hail mary but I'm not sure if they realize how far back the goal posts have moved. Right now they look pressed up against the nacho stand in the upper deck.

I'm sure Bill would agree .

13
#11219 4 years ago

Early on I had criticized John on the phone for concentrating so much on the artwork before actually making a functioning whitewood.

At the time, he hadn't even figured out what control system or operating system he'd wanted to use to run the game (which is obviously a vital component). As such, I told him I couldn't accurately quote how long it'd take until he either gave me those specifications or made the budget public. From the get-go, all of his time was spent on art. In fact, many conversations about the game would fall back to the art. I understand that is John's natural way of thinking, but clearly all factors weren't considered at the time.

Obviously he should've gotten a flipping whitewood FIRST in order to test all of his concepts. Why the hell would you pay to have your concepts built on fully printed playfields? We could never really get this through his head.

#11220 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

Notice, also, no one is talking about post-sales support. If you have another JJP lightboard scenario, what's the outcome?
I think people have the sense this is a hail mary but I'm not sure if they realize how far back the goal posts have moved.

Can you imagine? I buy a Stern game, bash them all you want about the code or the bad vent holes or hinges. But my XMLE I got a new aux board free and it was well past the official warranty (more than a year post sale). My AcDc premium, I was the second owner and it was past the warranty and they still sent me a free sound board. I didn't even have to pay for shipping.

11
#11221 4 years ago

The line art is amazing. Heck, everyone can agree that ZombieYetti is amazing. But, what the hell is up with the color palette on these games? Did John limit it to colors you could find in a box of sidewalk chalk?

13
#11222 4 years ago
Quoted from jwo825:

The line art is amazing. Heck, everyone can agree that ZombieYetti is amazing. But, what the hell is up with the color palette on these games? Did John limit it to colors you could find in a box of sidewalk chalk?

I propose renaming RAZA to Fifty Shades of Green.

#11223 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

That's how Skit-B went down. Earlier on people did discuss features and gameplay. As the project began tipping tipping tipping NOSEDIVE people stopped talking about whether or not it would be any good in favor of whether or not it would even get made.

Yeah, but I've actually played Predator. I knew how it played (not that great IMHO). There wasn't any mystery there. Before Kevin vanished he talked plenty about the rules. There was a *game* for all the bullshit.

Magic Girl has what? Some wiggly ramps, Jeremy's art, and what else? Is anyone actually thinking about the game part?

12
#11224 4 years ago

I wonder if leaving the "nut driver" on the play field is somehow symbolic of the experience

Bill and crew are doing a great job. If you want some perspective regarding the Deeproot deal by comparison, take a listen to C to C's podcast if you haven't already, #167.

I nearly drove off the road after hearing this on my way back from coast today.

The Deeproot deal and gameplan revolved around the basic premise that:

-RAZA would get made 1st, to the tune of 692 pins (how tf do you come up with that number) with a production and delivery date of October of 2016.

-MG would then go next, never mind that MG is "almost ready", and it will have a production run of 1130 pins with a 2017 delivery.

-AIW will bring up the rear with a grand total of 2000 pins produced and scheduled delivery in 2018.

All apparently with the notion that more deposits would need to be paid up.

I've got to tell you, this is the most astounding and amazing thing I think I've ever heard! Pinball has got to be the most bat shit crazy operation I've ever seen.

Like Nate said, try and wrap your mind around the reality of John producing 4,000 pinball machines.

Does it show you how far out in left field, heck forget left field, like way out in the parking lot, John and the whole scenario was evolving into.

I get what Bill is trying to do and I guess its somewhat feasible but the other idea makes me hit the WTF button over and over again.

In fact, I'm going outside my office right now and scream WTF!

#11225 4 years ago
Quoted from jwo825:

The line art is amazing. Heck, everyone can agree that ZombieYetti is amazing. But, what the hell is up with the color palette on these games? Did John limit it to colors you could find in a box of sidewalk chalk?

You look at some of the original art when it was still Ben Heck as the villain, and it was a dark zombie game. Then Spooky announce their game, and Walking Dead is announced, and John basically retools his entire game to make it everything they aren't. That alone probably ate up a year.

#11226 4 years ago

Well, the common thread for Popaduik is his playfields shoot nicely and the games look nice but the rest sucks. He's a wiz at AutoCAD.

So, the one thing he's good at is done. Maybe some professionals can finish the rest.

#11227 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Magic Girl has what? Some wiggly ramps, Jeremy's art, and what else? Is anyone actually thinking about the game part?

The whole thing is a beyond surreal CF.

15
#11228 4 years ago

Solution:

Stern hire Zombieyeti and puts him in charge of art for Game of Thones or SW or Jaws....

Or

JJP hires him and they won't have the hot mess they had completely redoing TH artwork on their next title...

Becuase right it seems like folks are trying to build a pinball company around gorgeous artwork....

That's like picking out a wedding dress THEN going out to try to locate a wife....

#11229 4 years ago

No doubt G

Quoted from jwo825:The line art is amazing. Heck, everyone can agree that ZombieYetti is amazing. But, what the hell is up with the color palette on these games? Did John limit it to colors you could find in a box of sidewalk chalk?

Yeah, it's sort of Cirqus Atomic Zombie Adventure.

I don't think he's using the RGB palette. Looks more like the LSD...

#11230 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

In fact, I'm going outside my office right now and scream WTF!

Video or it didnt happen

#11231 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Solution:
Stern hire Zombieyeti and puts him in charge of art for Game of Thones or SW or Jaws....
Or
JJP hires him and they won't have the hot mess they had completely redoing TH artwork on their next title...
Becuase right it seems like folks are trying to build a pinball company around gorgeous artwork....
That's like picking out a wedding dress THEN going out to try to located a wife....

The trouble is that with licensed themes it will be tough to get them to agree to zombieyeti's work. Where would it fit in nicely? On the Lawlor original license with JJP which is rumored to be a snow-based return to his natural disaster themes. Jack, please call ZY and make this happen!

#11232 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

The trouble is that with licensed themes it will be tough to get them to agree to zombieyeti's work. Where would it fit in nicely? On the Lawlor original license with JJP which is rumored to be a snow-based return to his natural disaster themes. Jack, please call ZY and make this happen!

yes!!! and of course that game needs a Yeti.

#11233 4 years ago

So with a couple million dollars (questionably) gone.

Has anyone started any legal action?

I remember reading attorney general being notified and I am sure the IRS has been as well.

I am surprised. Nope never mind the site is down.

#11234 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

The trouble is that with licensed themes it will be tough to get them to agree to zombieyeti's work.

Yup. There was that weird troll thread about getting Jeremy to do the art for Alien. Would have been a non starter, hand drawn art isn't an option there. That's going to be the case for most movie and TV licenses I think.

Band pins are one of the last vestiges of hand drawn licensed games.

#11235 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

That's going to be the case for most movie and TV licenses I think.

It's a shame. The TV/movie license holders would be smart to allow it, but to add agreements in place that allows them to use assets from the pinball machine for their own use (merchandise, advertising, etc.).

Help us help you, Mr. License Holder.

#11236 4 years ago

That is kind of funny. Coin taker comes up as selling RAZA like it is in the box ready to ship.
10500 just one click and add to basket. What a deal. You may need to modify your site.

#11237 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Band pins are one of the last vestiges of hand drawn licensed games.

I'm sure Jeremy can draw Eddie...

#11238 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Would have been a non starter, hand drawn art isn't an option there.

Off-topic I know, but why? Tons of hand-drawn art in the olden days. My understanding is that it's mostly a timing issue more than a money issue.

#11239 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Off-topic I know, but why? Tons of hand-drawn art in the olden days. My understanding is that it's mostly a timing issue more than a money issue.

It has to with controlling the brand and consistency.

#11240 4 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

That is kind of funny. Coin taker comes up as selling RAZA like it is in the box ready to ship.
10500 just one click and add to basket. What a deal. You may need to modify your site.

Well they are named Coin Taker!!!

Order now people and relax!

http://cointaker.com/products/retro-atomic-zombie-adventureland

#11241 4 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

That is kind of funny. Coin taker comes up as selling RAZA like it is in the box ready to ship.
10500 just one click and add to basket. What a deal. You may need to modify your site.

Yea, I feel bad for the cointaker gang. Anyone know if they remitted all the money they took in for RAZA to JPop?

#11242 4 years ago
Quoted from homebrood:

Well they are named Coin Taker!!!
Order now people and relax!
http://cointaker.com/products/retro-atomic-zombie-adventureland

My gosh, it let me add the game to my basket still . . . yea, they need to remove that from their website.

-5
#11243 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

The machines still need to be made. If all the money was spent on "design", what's left for manufacturing? The lion's share of the expenses? This is the 800 pound gorilla in the room nobody's talking about.
If they're asking for another eight grand per person to fund the production, and there's only 17 people involved, how is this machine going to be made? Jersey Jack had 1000 pre-orders and still had to dip into his pockets to get WOZ made.

You mean Elauts pockets

#11244 4 years ago
Quoted from gambit3113:

It also took a 3rd party to come get involved to get BBB done and out the door. Kerry Stair swooped in and saved that one.

And Gene thanked him by screwing him. Isn't it sad how many stories in pinball end this way?

#11245 4 years ago

In case no one is paying attention, the FBI just closed their investigation into the Predator affair and told those that got scammed there to pack sand. They found no criminal activity. Think about that before you decide if you want to throw any more money at this train wreck.

#11246 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

And Gene thanked him by screwing him. Isn't it sad how many stories in pinball end this way?

This pinball crowd is something else, wow.

Anybody actually read the allegations made in the lawsuit from Elaut? That'll make your hair stand up on the back of your neck.

Regardless of whether the allegations have merit or not, and I'm sure there are two sides of the story, always is, be pretty tough to entrust assets on a JJP assembly line as a 3rd party contractor without some kind of secured lien or personal guarantee.

Wow factor.

#11247 4 years ago
Quoted from jwo825:

In case no one is paying attention, the FBI just closed their investigation into the Predator affair and told those that got scammed there to pack sand. They found no criminal activity. Think about that before you decide if you want to throw any more money at this train wreck.

I may have read that thread wrong but it's my understanding the local PD handed it over to the fbi and closed their case. As far as I know, Kevin isn't out of the woods just yet.

#11248 4 years ago
Quoted from jwo825:

In case no one is paying attention, the FBI just closed their investigation into the Predator affair and told those that got scammed there to pack sand. They found no criminal activity. Think about that before you decide if you want to throw any more money at this train wreck.

What do you think I've been preaching non stop. If that wasn't a scam then this is on the A+ scale of the Better Business Bureau. Sorry, but they don't care about "buyer beware" losses unless somebody gets killed or something.

Where are all the cowboy up guys that were going to call the lawyers today?

Fyi, a client of mine came in today crying about his case against his brother in law. Guy stole millions of dollars from the family Oil & Gas business over the last 15 years or so.

They filed a lawsuit over two years ago, he's spent about $75k so far on lawyers and forensic accountants and hasn't even gotten to a deposition yet. He wants to kill the brother in law as he's 81 and doesn't think he'll make it before it ever gets resolved.

So good luck with the cowboy up mode.

#11249 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

This pinball crowd is something else, wow.
Anybody actually read the allegations made in the lawsuit from Elaut? That'll make your hair stand up on the back of your neck.
Regardless of whether the allegations have merit or not, and I'm sure there are two sides of the story, always is, be pretty tough to entrust assets on a JJP assembly line as a 3rd party contractor without some kind of secured lien or personal guarantee.
Wow factor.

Exactly.

http://issuu.com/jackgtruth/docs/jjp_lawsuit

With Skit-B and JPop/Zidware going down in flames so close together, the last thing this hobby needs is for JJP to be next.

Damn this hobby has more drama than any I've been involved in!

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