(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 24,316 posts
  • 915 Pinsiders participating
  • Topic is favorited by 166 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 1,696 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

sucks (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
bdabce9707bfa3eff92d0142c16fcb601c1ef058 (resized).jpeg
Deeproot_attire (resized).jpg
winds (resized).jpg
RAZA (resized).jpg
download (resized).jpeg
2g5x1v (resized).jpg
IMG_20161013_200354 (resized).jpg
hansonbrothers01 (resized).jpg
A33B8CA7-AD75-4E38-A815-1767E3A91C7A (resized).jpeg
D826C035-3CEF-4ADA-B80C-E04EE4B8BE8B (resized).jpeg
throwing-tomatoes-gif-1.gif
jpop sitting (resized).jpg
9E0B162E-329F-4B2E-9AB7-0FC857A196AB (resized).jpeg
expo (resized).png

Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 24316 posts in this topic. You are on page 215 of 487.
#10701 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Did he want to invent 565 bulbs to innovate from the boring 555 model? Its easy to see how the BoM could go from 5000 to 15000 in no time. Handcrafted "everything" is not what folks were expecting - handcrafted mechs, magnet tricks, weird ramps w/magnet holds or goofy paths - sure, that's Totan and ToM Jpop tactics - but custom color boards, spiked bolts, odd size glass, aluminum molds, custom hinges, playfield raising mechanisms - I bet even the lock mechanism for the lock-down bar is redesigned. Will the pinballs be standard size? Round?
Bill and team could standardize at least the unseen stuff (blue or black boards, really?) - cutting boM could be done w/o killing the unique inventions/features.

Agreed on all points here. In a nutshell, MG was "Scope Creep Pinball." With every new title JPOP announced, a project manager somewhere died.

#10702 4 years ago

This debacle would have made for a pretty good documentary.

#10703 4 years ago
Quoted from Honch:

This debacle would have made for a pretty good documentary.

I'm sure Greg Maletic is around here somewhere

#10704 4 years ago

Is this an older photo? Looks cool with the swirly wands, I'd be curious to hear the sound and how it matches play. I was looking at all the art...zombieyeti certainly has the right stuff, I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot of his artwork on future games.

11330048_10153335755838627_3046568909258875286_n.jpg
#10705 4 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

39 Sangra Court, Streamwood IL 60107 USA

Weird how when you do a google maps search no such address exists. I even tried substituting in "Neverneverland" for Streamwood and still nothing

#10706 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Not sure exactly what work he would do if it's already a flipping prototype - at this point it should be all software, shouldn't it?

He just manufactured the mold to make the ramps. I suspect once he gets the plastic ramps it might be playable. I just wonder if this thing could fall off the rails again. I am no pinball designer, but I would think a certain amount of tweaking is done on the playfield. Since this pin prototype hasn't had ramps yet, will it play well? Remains to be seen I guess. The other part of this, is the code. WOZ was a very pretty machine, but the first games off the line with weak code, were 'ok' but not really fun. Fast forward a year, and the code was awesome and the game fantastic. The difference was everyone knew that Keith was going to make it a great game. A lot of guys stuck with WOZ (me included) because Keith Johnson was there. With the first reveal of MG, it might look great, but a big unknown is the code.
A Ferrari is a very sleek and pretty car, but if it's got a fiat engine in it, it's a pretty looking dog.
For the price point, the code (engine) better be top notch.

#10707 4 years ago
Quoted from mwong168:

Weird how when you do a google maps search no such address exists. I even tried substituting in "Neverneverland" for Streamwood and still nothing

Strange that Google maps can't find it. It's a valid address. Postal Service has it logged, and MapQuest finds it:
map.png

#10708 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Thought that was common knowledge. John didn't like me helping Chuck with a "competing" zombie game and told me to make a choice.

Wait. When I met with John about helping with electronics and programming, my first question was, "You're working with Ben Heck, what do you need me for?" He told me that you were way too busy with your show and project that your involvement was spotty. Are you telling me he lied to me???

Also he said that you tweet everything you see and he couldn't allow that.

#10709 4 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

Wait. When I met with John about helping with electronics and programming, my first question was, "You're working with Ben Heck, what do you need me for?" He told me that you were way too busy with your show and project that your involvement was spotty. Are you telling me he lied to me???
Also he said that you tweet everything you see and he couldn't allow that.

John is spotty. Lol.

14
#10710 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

My guess is he is working on the prototype today. But just because you haven't seen the full flipping prototype does not mean it doesn't exist or is 'worthless,' as per your suggestion of 'starting over with just the artwork.' You really can't see the flaws in your reasoning here?
[EDIT] To be clear, I know pretty much everyone is royally pissed at John, and I'm not defending him in any way by these remarks. I am simply pointing out that, taking the emotion out of the situation, there are objectively 2 basically complete pinball layouts with good flow and a lot of new features, plus many improvements in lighting and display, and new toys, etc. in these 2 designs. Objectively speaking, all of this is not 'worthless.'

You've said this multiple times and no one has seen anything new. I would suggest you'd be better off not cheerleading John in any way. Because IMO you still are.

#10712 4 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Strange that Google maps can't find it. It's a valid address. Postal Service has it logged, and MapQuest finds it:
map.png (Click image to enlarge)

I drive by there all the time... I have to drive by there this afternoon... I'll snap a photo for everybody.

#10713 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

You've said this multiple times and no one has seen anything new. I would suggest you'd be better off not cheerleading John in any way. Because IMO you still are.

Thanks for your suggestion, but I'll ignore it. Because I have seen the full prototypes, as have others. So your statement that "no one has seen anything new" is simply false. And I am not cheerleading at all. Not defending John's actions or anything like that. Just adding a little bit of objectivity and some facts in the midst of all the reactionary emotion here. Because the best outcome would be to get the games made and shipped to customers. Emotion and exaggeration and insults won't do that. A reasoned plan like Bill's might, and that is worth supporting IMO.

#10714 4 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

he said that you tweet everything you see and he couldn't allow that.

I think it was Ben that was pushing for social media (duh, he has his own video podcast). I would actually watch the ustreams, and most of them were in Ben's shop (where John would bring in platters of fruit because ben seems to mostly snack on junk food). Only once was it in JPOP's shop, and it was only shot in the front office (basically the two of them talking about stuff, and looking through pinball books).

If Ben were helping me on anything, I would be kissing his ass not pushing him away

its sad to watch this old video:

#10715 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

Whoever builds the game could easily sell 1,000 MGs = $ 1M in profit.

lolwut?

*IF* they build one of these (big butt.... like jayloX2 big)

THEN

It would have to compete with some of the best games EVER for that price.... made by the best programmers EVER.... manufactured by ACTUAL companies....

So fast forward 2 years, you're talking about competing with JJP after they have 3 or 4 games under their belts.... and Stern who might finally innovate a bit by then... and have titles like Star Wars, Game of Thrones, etc, etc out?

Sorry, but there's no way in hell this game is sold to anyone that's not being held hostage today with jpop money...

#10716 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

A reasoned plan like Bill's might, and that is worth supporting IMO.

It all depends on what your definition of support is. If is means sending more money before games are delivered then he won't get my support.

23
#10717 4 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

Wait. When I met with John about helping with electronics and programming, my first question was, "You're working with Ben Heck, what do you need me for?" He told me that you were way too busy with your show and project that your involvement was spotty. Are you telling me he lied to me???
Also he said that you tweet everything you see and he couldn't allow that.

Yes, a show with a set schedule (something John wouldn't understand) that pays me money (something John never did) sure as hell will take precedent over a game I NEVER ASKED TO BE IN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

As for Spooky, they let me make the kind of game I wanted to make. Sure I had to do it in my free time, and didn't get paid til the end, but it was under my control.

#10718 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Maybe I'm wrong and they'll present a plan in the next month that knocks my dick into the dirt?

what it takes to knock a man's dick in the dirt..

12
#10719 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Thanks for your suggestion, but I'll ignore it. Because I have seen the full prototypes, as have others. So your statement that "no one has seen anything new" is simply false. And I am not cheerleading at all. Not defending John's actions or anything like that. Just adding a little bit of objectivity and some facts in the midst of all the reactionary emotion here. Because the best outcome would be to get the games made and shipped to customers. Emotion and exaggeration and insults won't do that. A reasoned plan like Bill's might, and that is worth supporting IMO.

Bill has good intentions and you I know have done a lot of work and supported John from day one, and I believe there is a lot of work product there, there should be, its been 4 years.

But, its looking like this is such a Cluster F that its tough to see how you can overcome all of the negative emotions that John has spawned.

The constant lies and exaggerations on his part, over and over again, all while spending our money on his salary and at least in my mind, trying to defraud people into sending more money in knowing full well he was misrepresenting where things were at.

Look at Chris's statement, John basically scammed him into being part of RAZA. Stating that Raza was "almost done", two years ago. And basically every other lied about timeline and BS he's thrown out there. People HATE that!

It's horrendous.

#10720 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

So fast forward 2 years, you're talking about competing with JJP after they have 3 or 4 games under their belts....

Lolwut?
Sorry man, couldn't resist.

#10721 4 years ago
Quoted from danczaz:

I drive by there all the time... I have to drive by there this afternoon... I'll snap a photo for everybody.

He's in the first building in that industrial park on the right side as you go in. The space has a front office type area with clearly visible pinball stuff in it so it's pretty easy to spot.

#10722 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

there are objectively 2 basically complete pinball layouts with good flow and a lot of new features, plus many improvements in lighting and display, and new toys, etc.

If the games are closer to being done than people give him credit for, and the only thing keeping a video from being shot is John's paranoia and other neuroses, this is an excellent opportunity for Pintasia to restore faith without spending a ton of money. Get two people to John's shop with a camcorder and shoot the video yourselves. I see a lot of positives in Pintasia being in charge, if they are in charge now. Maybe they can get John to pay outstanding invoices next.

#10723 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

A reasoned plan like Bill's might, and that is worth supporting IMO.

index.jpg
#10724 4 years ago

No one, except people who have already sent money to JPOP, wants to buy a $16,000 machine. StevenP has mentioned a number of times that RAZA is pretty far along too. Although no one has any idea what it will take to actually make these machines, focusing on a $10,000 machine like RAZA first seems like a smarter move if you want want to sell machines to people who haven't already been suckered by JPOP. RAZA starts flying off of the shelves at $10,000 each, then you can test the market for a $16,000 machine.

22
#10725 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Thanks for your suggestion, but I'll ignore it. Because I have seen the full prototypes, as have others. So your statement that "no one has seen anything new" is simply false. And I am not cheerleading at all. Not defending John's actions or anything like that. Just adding a little bit of objectivity and some facts in the midst of all the reactionary emotion here. Because the best outcome would be to get the games made and shipped to customers. Emotion and exaggeration and insults won't do that. A reasoned plan like Bill's might, and that is worth supporting IMO.

The best outcome would be to refund everyone their money.

#10726 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Yes, a show with a set schedule (something John wouldn't understand) that pays me money (something John never did) sure as hell will take precedent over a game I NEVER ASKED TO BE IN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I (here in holland) am always looking for new episodes of the Ben Heck show on you tube,just a thrill to see for me as a homebrewer.(most of my projects fail miserably and in the end only generate smokecurtains..but nevertheless,i have fun)

But i must admit when i ordered AIW,i thought that you were going to be the programmer behind all the Zidware machines?
Seeing you and Jpop in your shop killing the mario bros machine.
To me it looked like you and Jpop would come by to fix my machine(i figured you were not coming to the Netherlands especially for me,i could see that)or install it or something...it actually convinced me that you as a supersmart programmer would be working on this?

Jpop says in interviews that he noticed you guys and immediatly new he had to work together with you guys.

Don't get me wrong,i ain't pointing or whatever Ben,you are beyond awesome,you always make me laugh with your crazy humor,i just misinterpreted these you tube clips in thinking you were a group of really awesome people(which you guys ofcourse are)and working with John.

15
#10727 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

On what do you base the profit of 2.5K per unit? $ 1,000.00 profit per game seems reasonable to me. Whoever builds the game could easily sell 1,000 MGs = $ 1M in profit. That would cover the whole investment, right?

The assumption that thousands of games can sell for 5 figures is the core fallacy of the Pintasia proposal... MG's $16k price point is a high end collectible price point with a built in assumption that very few games will exist, ever. $10-12k doesn't address the issue either. Mass sales have to be done at a lower price point, and we've clearly seen that anything > $8k sees substantial market friction.

#10728 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

RAZA starts flying off of the shelves at $10,000 each,

Never gonna happen.

#10729 4 years ago

I'll say, if (only if) you are in for MG and are more than half paid, this buyout is not horrible. Lets say you owe $5500 - $6K more (to get a MG pin).

But on RAZA you'd owed an additional $9500 (plus shipping, I'll call that +$300) = $9800 that's a lot of money (might almost call it a full RAZA extra money) to get a game you didn't sign up for and that is not limited like it was before at 16, 26, 50 units whatever small batch.

Behind door number two you could have Kiss + IMVE for $9800 (today and be playing them for a couple years).

Plus, you still retain the ability to get a refund, partial refund from Jerk-Pop.

By agreeing to to the buy out (and the don't sue John clause) you get a game that *maybe gets made and *maybe is good oh and you still have to pay *$9800 which will buy almost any of the best games in existence today except the super rare birds, I mean any game under $10K or 2 $5K games.

Most people want a refund and the only way a refund is coming (or partial refund) is by John voluntarily giving a refund (and I think most would accept 75%) or by John's liquidation and division of moneys.

#10730 4 years ago

If RAZA was nearly complete (as MG appears to be) then we would have seen it by now.

Good chance RAZA / AIW BOM's would be nearly as high as MG since many things wouldn't change (cabinet, LCD system, custom mechs) and thus there'd be no margin at 10k price point.

So one would ask "then why not ask a little more to build RAZA instead?" and the answer is probably because it's even further behind than MG.

#10731 4 years ago

my post is next to ben heck

#10732 4 years ago

I remember the day the MG spots became available, advertised on RGP. When I looked there were 6 spots left out of the original 13.

I remember thinking $16k is a huge amount for a pinball. But with only 13 ever made, it could make sense.

But, the risk of it being made was high so I never got on board.

But it was the number 13 that got me tempted.

#10734 4 years ago

Just wondering
Is there another page Jon made on Facebook for RAZA n stuff? I saw his MG page, looked awesome
But I have serious doubts for him actually manufacturing and selling his games

#10735 4 years ago

and ben is a pinballrockstar too

aa mg6.jpg
#10736 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

If RAZA was nearly complete (as MG appears to be) then we would have seen it by now.
Good chance RAZA / AIW BOM's would be nearly as high as MG since many things wouldn't change (cabinet, LCD system, custom mechs) and thus there'd be no margin at 10k price point.
So one would ask "then why not ask a little more to build RAZA instead?" and the answer is probably because it's even further behind than MG.

The only smart thing I heard from John was that building RAZA with MG saved on the BOM as he started he was using the same targets, pops and other things in both games to save on a qty discount order and cut his bom. Everything else I've heard him say was beyond comprehension, but I was dumb and stayed invested.

#10737 4 years ago

If Ben Heck was hired/contracted/consulted in as the Lead Tech/Engineer and he and Pintasia had ability to fire JPOP who would remain on as game designer would folks drop litigation?

With Ben Heck involved and some others industry experts I think this could bring in new money.

#10738 4 years ago

That makes sense. Once the custom design is done, you just duplicate it.

That could also explain selling 125 RAZA's, he probably got laughed out of many a machine shop trying to get 13 custom mechs made.

29
#10739 4 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

If Ben Heck was hired/contracted/consulted in as the Lead Tech/Engineer and he and Pintasia had ability to fire JPOP who would remain on as game designer would folks drop litigation?
With Ben Heck involved and some others industry experts I think this could bring in new money.

ZenTron - I would not take that job if offered. Nobody really knows how much remains to be done, and I would not want to work with John under any circumstances.

#10740 4 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

The only smart thing I heard from John was that building RAZA with MG saved on the BOM as he started he was using the same targets, pops and other things in both games to save on a qty discount order and cut his bom. Everything else I've heard him say was beyond comprehension, but I was dumb and stayed invested.

It also gave him a convenient explanation for developing MG with RAZA money.

#10741 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

ZenTron - I would not take that job if offered. Nobody really knows how much remains to be done, and I would not want to work with John under any circumstances.

So you would consider it if John was out of the equation and you got to assess the current situation?

#10742 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

Jpop says in interviews that he noticed you guys and immediatly new he had to work together with you guys.

In my conversations he said that he could post on Pinside all day long and not get as much free advertising as a single Ben Heck tweet.

Ben is a cool guy, creative, asset to the hobby, and fun to hang around, but it was clear that John had other motives.

#10743 4 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

The assumption that thousands of games can sell for 5 figures is the core fallacy of the Pintasia proposal...

Nailed it. As a potential "new money" buyer, there is simply zero chance of me dropping $16K on a pinball machine - its just way too much money. Furthermore, there is zero chance of me spending $10K (lets just say thats where it ends up) on "classic/pro/premium/whatever". If I'm spending $10K on any pinball machine, I'd expect to receive the very best version of that game available. Given the apparent necessity to ensure the $16K game is "better" than the $10K game, my expectations cannot possibly be met. I can't be the only "new money" source that sees it like this.

#10744 4 years ago

Like Ben said, tattoo this on your forehead, "develop the BOM first before you set a price"

I thought we learned things like that in 1st grade math class. Obviously not

It sure seems like John only thought about bringing money in to get himself off the ground and paid. Obviously never worried about timelines and overhead and the flush of our money.

When I was trying to help John with the financials I was accused of not having the right "temperament" to deal with John. Really?

He needed someone from day one to hold his ass accountable, not just kiss his ass.

I got refunds on TH, TBL and Predator. I consider myself lucky to limit the damage although still hanging out there with Aliens

-1
#10745 4 years ago

iceman44, Im not sure why you're spending so much time and energy looking at the past. Ya'll should try to be recruiting some industry experts to move Zidware / JPOP's assets/IP into a new company and turn things around. Looking in from the outside MG seems like it has some potential and with the right players it could be shipping in less then 12 months.

#10746 4 years ago
Quoted from PinCrush:

Nailed it. As a potential "new money" buyer, there is simply zero chance of me dropping $16K on a pinball machine - its just way too much money. Furthermore, there is zero chance of me spending $10K (lets just say thats where it ends up) on "classic/pro/premium/whatever". If I'm spending $10K on any pinball machine, I'd expect to receive the very best version of that game available. Given the apparent necessity to ensure the $16K game is "better" than the $10K game, my expectations cannot possibly be met. I can't be the only "new money" source that sees it like this.

I'm in the same camp too. In fact I'll just assume it's a complete write off and wait until AIW comes out if Bill can pull it off.

I don't want either one of the MG or RAZA games now.

#10747 4 years ago

I bought AIW,i want AIW

#10748 4 years ago

How can you buy something that doesn't exist and then demand it..

#10749 4 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

The only smart thing I heard from John was that building RAZA with MG saved on the BOM as he stated he was using the same targets, pops and other things in both games to save on a qty discount order and cut his bom. Everything else I've heard him say was beyond comprehension, but I was dumb and stayed invested.

#10750 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

When I was trying to help John with the financials I was accused of not having the right "temperament" to deal with John. Really?

Absolutely really. When trying to work with stubborn people you don't come to a public forum and constantly insult them. I'm not talking about any sort of constructive criticism just your straight insults. So yes, I still stand by what I said. In saying that I'm not defending John as he's a dirtbag at best. And what we know now we didn't know then, that there was no hope.

Now, if you want to pull old quotes out of context look a few posts up at how you said spooky could never make a pin and pop would. Like I said, sometimes you appear very rational and sometimes not so much.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 68.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
There are 24316 posts in this topic. You are on page 215 of 487.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside