Agreed on all points here. In a nutshell, MG was "Scope Creep Pinball." With every new title JPOP announced, a project manager somewhere died.

This debacle would have made for a pretty good documentary.

I'm sure Greg Maletic is around here somewhere

Is this an older photo? Looks cool with the swirly wands, I'd be curious to hear the sound and how it matches play. I was looking at all the art...zombieyeti certainly has the right stuff, I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot of his artwork on future games.

11330048_10153335755838627_3046568909258875286_n.jpg

Weird how when you do a google maps search no such address exists. I even tried substituting in "Neverneverland" for Streamwood and still nothing

He just manufactured the mold to make the ramps. I suspect once he gets the plastic ramps it might be playable. I just wonder if this thing could fall off the rails again. I am no pinball designer, but I would think a certain amount of tweaking is done on the playfield. Since this pin prototype hasn't had ramps yet, will it play well? Remains to be seen I guess. The other part of this, is the code. WOZ was a very pretty machine, but the first games off the line with weak code, were 'ok' but not really fun. Fast forward a year, and the code was awesome and the game fantastic. The difference was everyone knew that Keith was going to make it a great game. A lot of guys stuck with WOZ (me included) because Keith Johnson was there. With the first reveal of MG, it might look great, but a big unknown is the code.
A Ferrari is a very sleek and pretty car, but if it's got a fiat engine in it, it's a pretty looking dog.
For the price point, the code (engine) better be top notch.

Strange that Google maps can't find it. It's a valid address. Postal Service has it logged, and MapQuest finds it:
map.png

Wait. When I met with John about helping with electronics and programming, my first question was, "You're working with Ben Heck, what do you need me for?" He told me that you were way too busy with your show and project that your involvement was spotty. Are you telling me he lied to me???

Also he said that you tweet everything you see and he couldn't allow that.

John is spotty. Lol.

You've said this multiple times and no one has seen anything new. I would suggest you'd be better off not cheerleading John in any way. Because IMO you still are.

Search better, It is there:

https://www.google.be/maps/search/39+sangra+court+Streamwood,+Illinois,+Verenigde+Staten/@42.0152471,-88.1804464,13z

I drive by there all the time... I have to drive by there this afternoon... I'll snap a photo for everybody.

Thanks for your suggestion, but I'll ignore it. Because I have seen the full prototypes, as have others. So your statement that "no one has seen anything new" is simply false. And I am not cheerleading at all. Not defending John's actions or anything like that. Just adding a little bit of objectivity and some facts in the midst of all the reactionary emotion here. Because the best outcome would be to get the games made and shipped to customers. Emotion and exaggeration and insults won't do that. A reasoned plan like Bill's might, and that is worth supporting IMO.

I think it was Ben that was pushing for social media (duh, he has his own video podcast). I would actually watch the ustreams, and most of them were in Ben's shop (where John would bring in platters of fruit because ben seems to mostly snack on junk food). Only once was it in JPOP's shop, and it was only shot in the front office (basically the two of them talking about stuff, and looking through pinball books).

If Ben were helping me on anything, I would be kissing his ass not pushing him away

its sad to watch this old video:

lolwut?

*IF* they build one of these (big butt.... like jayloX2 big)

THEN

It would have to compete with some of the best games EVER for that price.... made by the best programmers EVER.... manufactured by ACTUAL companies....

So fast forward 2 years, you're talking about competing with JJP after they have 3 or 4 games under their belts.... and Stern who might finally innovate a bit by then... and have titles like Star Wars, Game of Thrones, etc, etc out?

Sorry, but there's no way in hell this game is sold to anyone that's not being held hostage today with jpop money...

It all depends on what your definition of support is. If is means sending more money before games are delivered then he won't get my support.

Yes, a show with a set schedule (something John wouldn't understand) that pays me money (something John never did) sure as hell will take precedent over a game I NEVER ASKED TO BE IN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

As for Spooky, they let me make the kind of game I wanted to make. Sure I had to do it in my free time, and didn't get paid til the end, but it was under my control.

what it takes to knock a man's dick in the dirt..

Lolwut?
Sorry man, couldn't resist.

He's in the first building in that industrial park on the right side as you go in. The space has a front office type area with clearly visible pinball stuff in it so it's pretty easy to spot.

If the games are closer to being done than people give him credit for, and the only thing keeping a video from being shot is John's paranoia and other neuroses, this is an excellent opportunity for Pintasia to restore faith without spending a ton of money. Get two people to John's shop with a camcorder and shoot the video yourselves. I see a lot of positives in Pintasia being in charge, if they are in charge now. Maybe they can get John to pay outstanding invoices next.

No one, except people who have already sent money to JPOP, wants to buy a $16,000 machine. StevenP has mentioned a number of times that RAZA is pretty far along too. Although no one has any idea what it will take to actually make these machines, focusing on a $10,000 machine like RAZA first seems like a smarter move if you want want to sell machines to people who haven't already been suckered by JPOP. RAZA starts flying off of the shelves at $10,000 each, then you can test the market for a $16,000 machine.

The best outcome would be to refund everyone their money.

I (here in holland) am always looking for new episodes of the Ben Heck show on you tube,just a thrill to see for me as a homebrewer.(most of my projects fail miserably and in the end only generate smokecurtains..but nevertheless,i have fun)

But i must admit when i ordered AIW,i thought that you were going to be the programmer behind all the Zidware machines?
Seeing you and Jpop in your shop killing the mario bros machine.
To me it looked like you and Jpop would come by to fix my machine(i figured you were not coming to the Netherlands especially for me,i could see that)or install it or something...it actually convinced me that you as a supersmart programmer would be working on this?

Jpop says in interviews that he noticed you guys and immediatly new he had to work together with you guys.

Don't get me wrong,i ain't pointing or whatever Ben,you are beyond awesome,you always make me laugh with your crazy humor,i just misinterpreted these you tube clips in thinking you were a group of really awesome people(which you guys ofcourse are)and working with John.

The assumption that thousands of games can sell for 5 figures is the core fallacy of the Pintasia proposal... MG's $16k price point is a high end collectible price point with a built in assumption that very few games will exist, ever. $10-12k doesn't address the issue either. Mass sales have to be done at a lower price point, and we've clearly seen that anything > $8k sees substantial market friction.

Never gonna happen.

I'll say, if (only if) you are in for MG and are more than half paid, this buyout is not horrible. Lets say you owe $5500 - $6K more (to get a MG pin).

But on RAZA you'd owed an additional $9500 (plus shipping, I'll call that +$300) = $9800 that's a lot of money (might almost call it a full RAZA extra money) to get a game you didn't sign up for and that is not limited like it was before at 16, 26, 50 units whatever small batch.

Behind door number two you could have Kiss + IMVE for $9800 (today and be playing them for a couple years).

Plus, you still retain the ability to get a refund, partial refund from Jerk-Pop.

By agreeing to to the buy out (and the don't sue John clause) you get a game that *maybe gets made and *maybe is good oh and you still have to pay *$9800 which will buy almost any of the best games in existence today except the super rare birds, I mean any game under $10K or 2 $5K games.

Most people want a refund and the only way a refund is coming (or partial refund) is by John voluntarily giving a refund (and I think most would accept 75%) or by John's liquidation and division of moneys.

If RAZA was nearly complete (as MG appears to be) then we would have seen it by now.

Good chance RAZA / AIW BOM's would be nearly as high as MG since many things wouldn't change (cabinet, LCD system, custom mechs) and thus there'd be no margin at 10k price point.

So one would ask "then why not ask a little more to build RAZA instead?" and the answer is probably because it's even further behind than MG.

my post is next to ben heck

I remember the day the MG spots became available, advertised on RGP. When I looked there were 6 spots left out of the original 13.

I remember thinking $16k is a huge amount for a pinball. But with only 13 ever made, it could make sense.

But, the risk of it being made was high so I never got on board.

But it was the number 13 that got me tempted.

awesome

Just wondering
Is there another page Jon made on Facebook for RAZA n stuff? I saw his MG page, looked awesome
But I have serious doubts for him actually manufacturing and selling his games

and ben is a pinballrockstar too

aa mg6.jpg

The only smart thing I heard from John was that building RAZA with MG saved on the BOM as he started he was using the same targets, pops and other things in both games to save on a qty discount order and cut his bom. Everything else I've heard him say was beyond comprehension, but I was dumb and stayed invested.

If Ben Heck was hired/contracted/consulted in as the Lead Tech/Engineer and he and Pintasia had ability to fire JPOP who would remain on as game designer would folks drop litigation?

With Ben Heck involved and some others industry experts I think this could bring in new money.

That makes sense. Once the custom design is done, you just duplicate it.

That could also explain selling 125 RAZA's, he probably got laughed out of many a machine shop trying to get 13 custom mechs made.

ZenTron - I would not take that job if offered. Nobody really knows how much remains to be done, and I would not want to work with John under any circumstances.

It also gave him a convenient explanation for developing MG with RAZA money.

So you would consider it if John was out of the equation and you got to assess the current situation?

In my conversations he said that he could post on Pinside all day long and not get as much free advertising as a single Ben Heck tweet.

Ben is a cool guy, creative, asset to the hobby, and fun to hang around, but it was clear that John had other motives.

Nailed it. As a potential "new money" buyer, there is simply zero chance of me dropping $16K on a pinball machine - its just way too much money. Furthermore, there is zero chance of me spending $10K (lets just say thats where it ends up) on "classic/pro/premium/whatever". If I'm spending $10K on any pinball machine, I'd expect to receive the very best version of that game available. Given the apparent necessity to ensure the $16K game is "better" than the $10K game, my expectations cannot possibly be met. I can't be the only "new money" source that sees it like this.

iceman44, Im not sure why you're spending so much time and energy looking at the past. Ya'll should try to be recruiting some industry experts to move Zidware / JPOP's assets/IP into a new company and turn things around. Looking in from the outside MG seems like it has some potential and with the right players it could be shipping in less then 12 months.

I bought AIW,i want AIW

How can you buy something that doesn't exist and then demand it..

Absolutely really. When trying to work with stubborn people you don't come to a public forum and constantly insult them. I'm not talking about any sort of constructive criticism just your straight insults. So yes, I still stand by what I said. In saying that I'm not defending John as he's a dirtbag at best. And what we know now we didn't know then, that there was no hope.

Now, if you want to pull old quotes out of context look a few posts up at how you said spooky could never make a pin and pop would. Like I said, sometimes you appear very rational and sometimes not so much.