(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#10651 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

It's not impossible, it's just going to be a VERY long time before owners see a dime, even if they start selling new units through a manufacturer. That very likely means someone off the street could purchase a MG years before an original purchaser gets theirs.

Someone correct me if I misunderstand any of that.

I think a lot of things are up in the air, and still are.

I do think the new deal announcement was mishandled, the new agreement is BS, and after talking to Bill was actually unnecessary. This whole deal will live or die in the next 2 weeks.

#10652 4 years ago

I don't see this deal, buy out, sweep the mess under the rug whatever you want to call it have any legs unless one of the stipulations include John/Zidware through bankrupsy proceedings. Sorry John old boy, time to face the music, you made the bed you need to lie in it.

Bill want's to pick up the pieces, I'm sure there will be a very short line of people looking to offer money for this mess.

Stern and JJP certainly don't need it, what other pinball company wants this crap? No offense to Zobbie Yetti he does great work, but from all I can see there is not much of a game there, in other words A LOT of work to complete, so it'd be almost as easy to just make a new game rather than piggyback onto John's mess. IMO.

#10653 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

Good for you! I bet it feels good to have made that complaint, and taken some control back in this situation
What is the upper limit for a small claim of this kind? I think it might be USD$10,000.00? Rather than the big expense of lawyers for a contract complaint filing for $20,245.00 purchases (plus damages and interest and legal fees?), I'm wondering if I should just split my two orders with Jpop for MG and RAZA (they were separate, and have 2 separate, signed purchase agreements with Zidware). This breaks down to:
MG $15,995.00
RAZA $4,250.00
Although I'd lose $5,995.00 on MG potentially (if there's a $10k claim limit), the process would be easier, faster and cheaper, and presumably could get the money out of Jpop before he gets tied down in some big class action/bankruptcy-type situation, where unsecured creditors (us) will end up with pennies on the pound (sorry, dollar!)? Strategically, I'm wondering if pre-orderers should go down this route rather than protracted, expensive litigation with someone like Zane D. Smith?

Just file the complaint. The more that file, the better the chances of forcing John to get his books in order. This needs to be step #1 in trying to get this mess sorted out

#10654 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Stern and JJP certainly don't need it, what other pinball company wants this crap? No offense to Zobbie Yetti he does great work, but from all I can see there is not much of a game there, in other words A LOT of work to complete, so it'd be almost as easy to just make a new game rather than piggyback onto John's mess. IMO.

This is the big mystery to me, hopefully this will be made more clear with the MG reveal. Maybe these game(s) are near complete physically and play really well.

IF toys/mechs etc. are still not final, and all you have is layout and art, why not just "borrow" (be inspired by!) aspects of existing layout, get new art and start from scratch rather than wade into this mess? Actually complete the game physically and get a BOM before agonizing over the art.

#10655 4 years ago

Can Someone say what type of corporation Zidware is and what type of assets are off limits for a claw back?

How is this fair for people with $2000 towards an AIW (let's say) that they be forced to pay anohter $14k for MG? Is there no walk around for people who have no incentive to take the 'take it or leave it' offer?

If I was in a minority stake deposit situation, the only sensible choice would be court, no sense in letting John off the hook when I could wait and see the games if they ever get made and pay less than $16k (limited edition BS edition).

And while we're around the subject can all future manufactures please drop the LE bull-S. Just make a full function game, especially at 10k plus. I got a laugh from the coast to coast podcast, he said the LE would be $5k more but the standard would have all the same functionality. So he said what would make the LE worth another $5K does it come with a Kiss pro stapled to the side of the box?

11
#10656 4 years ago

I've learned one thing, I'm switching my PayPal over to Amex funding.

#10657 4 years ago
Quoted from scylla:

I believe there were 2 AIW deposit requests over the last six months.

make that 3,i did not ignore it...

#10658 4 years ago

real easy painfully obvious ?

Who the fuck is Pintasia and why should they be trusted?

What is their background?

Do they rescue all kinds of failing businesses or just pinball?

Registered?Legal?Expertise?

#10659 4 years ago

People don't sign the letter in the email! Don't sign ANYTHING! John's knows the clock is running out on any claim. Fraud is another matter completely. At best John is a SUPER FLAKE at worst a plain thief!

47
#10660 4 years ago

I agree, just start over.

The only value in the IP is the artwork. Zombie Yeti is the star of this show. Imagine what he could accomplish if his work didn't have to be squeezed through the cheese grater of John's mind?

Save your 9k and buy a game from whatever company hires Yeti to make something just as pretty, but much cheaper, than Zidware crap.

#10661 4 years ago

Ben why did you bail out?

#10662 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I think a lot of things are up in the air, and still are.
I do think the new deal announcement was mishandled, the new agreement is BS, and after talking to Bill was actually unnecessary. This whole deal will live or die in the next 2 weeks.

At the very least, file a complaint as it may give Bill more leverage to work out a better deal with John. I'm sure the conditions John demanded are in that letter. If this hammer falls, Bill may be able to propose a new deal. John may need Bill and a bailout to avoid jail.

I think we would all like to see this move forward without John involved. The only way to do that, is to file the complaint and give Bill leverage to restructure a better deal, in hopes the prosecution is lenient on John. Not having Bill to bail John out with a solution may put John in jail.

So I'm asking everyone to file the complaint

https://ccformsubmission.ilattorneygeneral.net/

#10663 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

the cheese grater of John's mind

lol.

#10664 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I agree, just start over.
The only value in the IP is the artwork. Zombie Yeti is the star of this show. Imagine what he could accomplish if his work didn't have to be squeezed through the cheese grater of John's mind?
Save your 9k and buy a game from whatever company hires Yeti to make something just as pretty, but much cheaper, than Zidware crap.

Or another thought. Yeti designed art for some very cool games. A potential way of generating cash could be for Pintasia to take the Pinball game designs and art and make some Virtual Pinball Games out of them. Not everyone like games like The Pinball Arcade (TPA) or Zen PinBall, but they might be willing to create some unique Tables for sale with Yeti's art. A way to generate some money to repay folks who preordered. A couple bucks per table x thousands of people could add up. Maybe not a full repayment but something. Again, just a quick idea. So sorry for all those involved. I had contacted John before Expo on Raza ... I guess I was lucky to not pull a trigger.

34
#10665 4 years ago

Thought that was common knowledge. John didn't like me helping Chuck with a "competing" zombie game and told me to make a choice.

Ironically Johns game is now a bunch of aliens and clowns and Chucks game has been rethemed towards horror.

And yes, John has no business sense whatsoever. The guy makes his customers sign NDAs to buy a game featuring Ben Heck with whom he doesn't have a contract or legal agreement for compensation for use of likeness.

b49eeba0b7ea5a0f63eb4f9cfaf43439877766abc16b4fe9edc2ff2e08abc1e9.jpg
#10666 4 years ago
Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

People don't sign the letter in the email! Don't sign ANYTHING! John's knows the clock is running out on any claim. Fraud is another matter completely. At best John is a SUPER FLAKE at worst a plain thief!

Instead, submit this claim.
https://ccformsubmission.ilattorneygeneral.net/

#10667 4 years ago

Its a simple business fail , he said himself he is a failed businessman

Like Kevin he will not be charged for anything, zidware will hide behind his LLC company

Also he is probably a creditor as well as the IRS and will get a % from the sale of assets

#10668 4 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

Also there is a glm produced board in purple top right shown.

All of the blue boards were designed and manufactured by GLM as well. These are the lamp boards for both the GI and the RGB lighting system. The original insert lighting system was based on RGB "pixels". There are three of them in the picture (flat metal squares). These "pixels" were reverse engineered and then built with various configurations to fit all of the different type of inserts that were going to be used.

A small minor note of interest, purple was the original color John wanted for all of the PCBs. Unfortunately purple is a custom color (please don't mention OSHpark or any of the other prototyping houses) and very difficult to get in small volume production runs. I then convinced John to do blue, primarily because of time crunch issues (gotta get it ready for that Expo reveal!). So a majority of the boards produced were in blue.

Later John toyed with the idea of doing black before settling on...standard green.

-6
#10669 4 years ago

Does anyone find it irrating that Jpop is really just walking away with no coupabilty whatsoever?

If they show this "game" at NW I would encourage someone,anyone, who got torched in this, to flip the fuckin "game" over on its side.

10
#10670 4 years ago

Where do I sign up for a game designed by Dennis Nordman with Zombie Yeti artwork based on the new SPIKE hardware and built by Stern? Something tells me that Zombie Yeti could come up with an original theme that would be off the hook if given a chance to work with someone that is not bat shit crazy.

#10671 4 years ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Does anyone find it irrating that Jpop is really just walking away with no coupabilty whatsoever?
If they show this "game" at NW I would encourage someone,anyone, who got torched in this, to flip the fuckin "game" over on its side.

He has completely sent his name into the sewer. He will probably never work in pinball again. Instead of being remembered for his games he'll be remembered for screwing people. Maybe not the punishment people want but a punishment none the less.

Culpability is the word you're looking for.

#10672 4 years ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Does anyone find it irrating that Jpop is really just walking away with no coupabilty whatsoever?

Have you read this thread?!?

#10673 4 years ago

Just curious -- is it possible Pintasia needs JPOP to complete the game? While there is a lot of artwork, sound, toys, etc. - does anyone know if there is an actual, completed rulebook for the game? I assume there must be something partially done because appejuice did some code.

So let's say JPOP goes to jail (as he should) and isn't or cannot be involved and that the rulebook isn't done. Who becomes the designer? Just another missing piece of the puzzle in my mind.

#10674 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

I want to make sure the current customers understand the math. Definitely not saying this is the wrong way to do business, just think this is important for people to comprehend.
Pintasia is obviously going to spend a decent chunk of money getting the games finalized.
I'd imagine the the first games will go to fulfilling Pintasia's original order(s). Then, the first profits Pintasia makes will be used to pay back the amount they spend getting the games finished. Then after all that has been paid back, any extra will be divided among the owners to offset a *new* purchase.
Not saying that is the wrong way to do it, but current customers that think this leads to them getting a game just need to understand the raw math behind it and where they fall in the pecking order.
For example, if it takes Pintasia $500k more to get the game to a state someone like Stern would agree to manufacture it, and they make $2.5k profit on each machine sold, they would need to sell 200 new orders to recoup the money Pintasia puts into finishing it. New profits beyond that, minus Pintasia costs, will get split up among owners toward a new purchase.
If JPop took $1M in pre-orders, at $2.5k profit per unit, they would need to sell 400 new units beyond the 200 above to make the owners "whole".
It's not impossible, it's just going to be a VERY long time before owners see a dime, even if they start selling new units through a manufacturer. That very likely means someone off the street could purchase a MG years before an original purchaser gets theirs.
Someone correct me if I misunderstand any of that.

On what do you base the profit of 2.5K per unit? $ 1,000.00 profit per game seems reasonable to me. Whoever builds the game could easily sell 1,000 MGs = $ 1M in profit. That would cover the whole investment, right?

#10675 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

On what do you base the profit of 2.5K per unit? $ 1,000.00 profit per game seems reasonable to me. Whoever builds the game could easily sell 1,000 MGs = $ 1M in profit. That would cover the whole investment, right?

I pulled those numbers out of thin air, I have no idea how much profit per unit they would actually make. Cutting it down to $1000 per unit makes the situation even more dire.

You really think they would sell 1000 MGs? That's crazy talk.

#10676 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

Whoever builds the game could easily sell 1,000 MGs

Seems really optimistic, especially if priced >$10k.

How many TBL sold? Hundreds... Cool theme, decent artwork and the game plays nicely.
No one knows about MG's gameplay.

#10678 4 years ago

I have no horse in this race.....but , having watched all this unfold, from all the way back to the initial offerings of Magic Girl, all the way up to this 10K plus thread, learning that Jpop was still trying to take money on machines up until a couple of weeks ago, my head is just shaking in disbelief.

What Jpop has done is 100% criminal, poor to no records, owes everyone, no money for refunds, and the threat of bankruptcy if you don't sign this bullsh*t.

You can all sue all you want, but a BK will protect him. Those of you who have lost money should be following a path to get criminal charges against him. I bet my collective ass money spent on deposits was used for Jpop's personal use and that KISS prototype. All of which would be highly unethical and quite ILLEGAL. If he cannot even provide records for who made deposits, then he sure as hell cannot provide record for the dollars spent from the dollars(deposits) collected.

Criminal charges, possibly some time in a facility, and restitution are the only viable options to make him pay.

#10679 4 years ago
Quoted from RandyV:

Just curious -- is it possible Pintasia needs JPOP to complete the game? While there is a lot of artwork, sound, toys, etc. - does anyone know if there is an actual, completed rulebook for the game?

Popaduik is somewhat infamous for being really shitty at rules anyway - every decent game of his had the rules designed by someone else.

So, no big loss there.

#10680 4 years ago

If they couldn't build a case for fraud against SkitB, somehow I doubt John will be facing the music. It blows my mind, but I guess it must be pretty easy to get away with this type of stuff. These guys were pioneers in pinball alright.

#10681 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

The only value in the IP is the artwork. Zombie Yeti is the star of this show. Imagine what he could accomplish if his work didn't have to be squeezed through the cheese grater of John's mind?

Multimorphic and/or Heighway and/or Spooky should just hire zombieyeti. Good companies, good people. As for applejuice(the developer), I'm betting there's also future work available for him with actual paychecks.

#10682 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

from all I can see there is not much of a game there, in other words A LOT of work to complete

The list of completed work that was posted would at least imply there's a game at least as playable as TBL is right now, so I don't doubt they could set up the prototype with the glued ramps and let people play it a bit. I'll give them that much credit.

Sell-able state though? No.

#10683 4 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

What Jpop has done is 100% criminal, poor to no records, owes everyone, no money for refunds, and the threat of bankruptcy if you don't sign this bullsh*t.

Criminal charges, possibly some time in a facility, and restitution are the only viable options to make him pay.

A criminal case is no easy thing to prove.... look no further than the SkitB case where on top of all the stupidity HERE, he falsely claimed to have a license!
No Criminal finding.

Oh, I'm sure you all have a great chance at some serious civil suit, but don't expect him to do jailtime....

But why are we talking about ANY kind of punishment, Hell, under the PinTastic plan, not only wont he be punished, but he will be employed, sent around the country to shows and generally be REWARDED for his failure...

#10684 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

Culpability is the word you're looking for.

Yes I spelled it wrong,thanks!!!

#10685 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

And yes, John has no business sense whatsoever. The guy makes his customers sign NDAs to buy a game featuring Ben Heck with whom he doesn't have a contract or legal agreement for compensation for use of likeness.

If that's true, then it is even more like Predator with fraud from the start as many of us were sold on a license that was never even secured! For the record, I never liked the fact that you disappeared from the project and my enthusiasm started to go down hill after that. Your webcast participation was a big part of the reason I got in on it in the first place and I love the Element 14 stuff you do.

Interestingly, when I inquired why you were no longer part of the artwork, I was given the explanation you had defected and could no longer be trusted to keep all the amazing secrets he was busy patenting. He was clearly concerned about it given your internet celebrity status, but never mentioned you weren't really on board from the get go. As you said, you certainly chose wisely!

-19
#10686 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I agree, just start over.
The only value in the IP is the artwork. Zombie Yeti is the star of this show. Imagine what he could accomplish if his work didn't have to be squeezed through the cheese grater of John's mind?
Save your 9k and buy a game from whatever company hires Yeti to make something just as pretty, but much cheaper, than Zidware crap.

I gotta disagree with this. Are you really saying that the 2 complete layouts, custom parts and lighting designs, music/voicework, new toy designs, etc. are all worth nothing? It will be interesting to see how people compare the MG prototype to AMH in a few weeks, I guess.

#10687 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

On what do you base the profit of 2.5K per unit? $ 1,000.00 profit per game seems reasonable to me. Whoever builds the game could easily sell 1,000 MGs = $ 1M in profit. That would cover the whole investment, right?

On a $16k game, the profit better be more than $1k/game and they won't sell 1000 $16k games.

#10688 4 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

So I'm asking everyone to file the complaint
https://ccformsubmission.ilattorneygeneral.net/

I will be doing this on Tuesday.

29
#10689 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

Whoever builds the game could easily sell 1,000 MGs

image.jpg

59
#10690 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

I gotta disagree with this. Are you really saying that the 2 complete layouts, custom parts and lighting designs, music/voicework, new toy designs, etc. are all worth nothing? It will be interesting to see how people compare the MG prototype to AMH in a few weeks, I guess.

Yup, until we see a working, playable game, it's worth nothing.

AMH might not be as pretty as John's games but it's real and shipping. Is John in his shop at this very moment, tweaking code on Memorial Day like I am?

-10
#10691 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Yup, until we see a working, playable game, it's worth nothing.
AMH might not be as pretty as John's games but it's real and shipping. Is John in his shop at this very moment, tweaking code on Memorial Day like I am?

My guess is he is working on the prototype today. But just because you haven't seen the full flipping prototype does not mean it doesn't exist or is 'worthless,' as per your suggestion of 'starting over with just the artwork.' You really can't see the flaws in your reasoning here?

[EDIT] To be clear, I know pretty much everyone is royally pissed at John, and I'm not defending him in any way by these remarks. I am simply pointing out that, taking the emotion out of the situation, there are objectively 2 basically complete pinball layouts with good flow and a lot of new features, plus many improvements in lighting and display, and new toys, etc. in these 2 designs. Objectively speaking, all of this is not 'worthless.'

10
#10692 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

My guess is he is working on the prototype today. But just because you haven't seen the full flipping prototype does not mean it doesn't exist or is 'worthless,' as per your suggestion of 'starting over with just the artwork.' You really can't see the flaws in your reasoning here?

I've heard John has had a working flipping prototype before. I've not seen anything yet.

10
#10693 4 years ago

Stevenp just doesn't give up does he lol.

#10694 4 years ago

John has designed a game that, as it stands, is impossble to manufacture.

I believe John was looking at Partec to assemble his games. We'll see if Pintasia goes the same route. Although Partec has never assembled a full pinball machine, they did make the majority of the Data East assemblies back in the day. They still assemble all the Raw Thrills games, among other things.

Although Bill (of Partec) knows his stuff, he has never assembled a monster such as Magic Girl.

#10695 4 years ago

Not sure exactly what work he would do if it's already a flipping prototype - at this point it should be all software, shouldn't it?

#10696 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

make that 3,i did not ignore it...

Sorry to hear - that sucks.

Wife put her foot down after deposit #1 and said no more until MG ships. And the rest is history...

10
#10697 4 years ago
Quoted from GLModular:

All of the blue boards were designed and manufactured by GLM as well. These are the lamp boards for both the GI and the RGB lighting system. The original insert lighting system was based on RGB "pixels". There are three of them in the picture (flat metal squares). These "pixels" were reverse engineered and then built with various configurations to fit all of the different type of inserts that were going to be used.
A small minor note of interest, purple was the original color John wanted for all of the PCBs. Unfortunately purple is a custom color (please don't mention OSHpark or any of the other prototyping houses) and very difficult to get in small volume production runs. I then convinced John to do blue, primarily because of time crunch issues (gotta get it ready for that Expo reveal!). So a majority of the boards produced were in blue.
Later John toyed with the idea of doing black before settling on...standard green.

Did he want to invent 565 bulbs to innovate from the boring 555 model? Its easy to see how the BoM could go from 5000 to 15000 in no time. Handcrafted "everything" is not what folks were expecting - handcrafted mechs, magnet tricks, weird ramps w/magnet holds or goofy paths - sure, that's Totan and ToM Jpop tactics - but custom color boards, spiked bolts, odd size glass, aluminum molds, custom hinges, playfield raising mechanisms - I bet even the lock mechanism for the lock-down bar is redesigned. Will the pinballs be standard size? Round?
Bill and team could standardize at least the unseen stuff (blue or black boards, really?) - cutting boM could be done w/o killing the unique inventions/features.

#10698 4 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Stevenp just doesn't give up does he lol.

No doubt. It's over, flippable prototype or not.

14
#10699 4 years ago

I've been asked by Pinballs to return to this thread to verify his participation as a Jpop buyer. And I'm glad to do just that.

It was long over due but this morning he finally sent me proof via private email. Now that I have validation I've also accepted him in joining the private owners group on Facebook.

Welcome, John. I know Facebook is a pain in the ass but the more of us the better.

#10700 4 years ago

Even if these do get made, can you imagine the horrendous quality control on the first 50 games??? What a mess and I hope you guys get made,right one way or another.

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