you have got to be kidding me.

you guys are being asked to sign something obligating you to pay an unknown amount of money to an unknown entity for delivery of a currently non-existent product at an unspecified later time, and you waive any legal rights on your own behalf to sue them if they don't deliver.

none of you are considering this a serious option, are you?

i truly feel awful for what you guys have been put through

If that was the case, Poopaduke could have just given MG to JJP and in 4 years, there would indeed be a game born.

You're stating you know the investor personally and have not just been told a name? Again, I really hope this person's name is not David Richter because that would really be another good laugh.

Sadly, I share your hope.

No sense in letting this straw grasping go on for another 5 years.

That's nothing to joke about. There's some sad stories of some people having to drive a 2 year old Mercedes instead of a new Bentley! What? Fly coach?!?

Interesting how they position the need for him to be involved as the reason there needs to be the waiving of the right to sue -- since he can't afford to be distracted by such nonsense.

That's the crux of the situation. It's a mystery man. You can't judge anything. And what happens if people sign and the mystery man bails because John flakes on him? The pst thing this boondoggle needs is more mystery.

The other option is not to "just walk away." It is to choose not to sign it and see if games are made.

You are still owed a game or a refund even if you don't check a box on this document. By signing this document, you are waiving your rights and acknowledging that you may get nothing in the future.

As a matter of fact, I feel that checking the box to wait for RAZA/AIW pretty much seals your fate that you will never get anything in the future. No game, no refund, no justice. You signed that you are OK with that.

I am begging all of you to please be careful here. Make you own choices, but consult an attorney and do some research.

You guys are missing an opportunity here - seems to me if you're being told to fill out how much you paid in, then everybody is paid in full! Hell, tell 'em you paid for 2 raza's to solve the 50% credit problem. Since there are apparently no records.

/not serious

WTF!

There will be no refunds ever:

RULES of ACQUISITION
Rule #1: Once you have their money, never give it back.

Didn't these guys have to sign disclosure agreements with Jpop

94.5% of me thinks that would actually work....

/serious

It's not that I don't believe you but I am curious of what you know so confidently that makes him so legit? A big name in pinball that everyone knows? A close friend of yours that you have intimate knowledge of his finances and business prowess?

From what I can gleam from this deal, the Licensee is getting no pre-order funds from Zidware (because they're gone), so I can't imagine this new player stepping forward and immediately throwing away $750K, or whatever the figure is to refund everyone. To make this work it seems like he's going to need to keep the existing customers (captive as they are) and make the most expensive game. Otherwise, whatever business plan the Licensee has in mind can't work. Then all pre-orders are lost and we are all burned as was stated in a previous post.

Like Ice has said, there are two other options. Sue and get nothing or maybe a few pennies on the dollar (which I doubt), or walk away. On this new lifeline option, none of the pre-order folks will send in another penny until much more is revealed to them. The Licensee has his hands full and a lot of fence mending to do before that could possibly happen. Whoever it is, he's got big brass ones, just to touch this IMHO.

Wrong. I had nothing to do with this particular letter and confirmation form. The first time I saw it was this morning. It was not the 'personal' communication that I was editing, which is apparently not going to be sent at this point. The current arrangement renders that letter moot.

Guess we'll never know if that ramp shot was doable or not

Don't sign it.

Unless Poopaduke sends you a registered letter by June 1st, how could he ever prove you received it?

Poopaduke? I believe his name is actually popash*t.

Are they asking that more money be sent to Zidware with the legal document signed while John is still in charge? That is Nuts!

I have not read all these posts today, but clearly this is just another delay tactic, and John does NOT want to be sued any more. I would clearly sue him, on the grounds of breach of contract. It's a win, see Skit-B situation.

If John has no assets, he can not sell/transfer these games over to a new entity. These assets are paid for by you guys, if the new entity wants them, or if John wants to sell/give them to the new entity, that's not you guys problem, John has to re-compensate the pre-owners. The didn't buy a game to be delivered 6-7 years after they sent in money. RAZA buyers didn't sign up for a $16K MG. Heck even the original MG buyers didn't pay to be part of a 199 run followed by an unlimited run of games. The ENTIRE CONTRACT is broken by John, and he needs to liquidate, and if the new buyers want to make the pin, they can do whatever with the pre-sales or sale after build. But the Zidware pre-owners are owed money. John, John's assets, John's wife's assets, the new buyer, someone need to pay.

If the new buyer is willing to give 1 credit for future pins, they should just give 1 refunds simple as that.
IMO

Its Poopadeuce.

Amateurs

Wow.... just wow.

This sounds great, but it's just unrealistic unless the "investor" wants to bail out the buyers (and unpaid contractors) out of the goodness of his own heart. It simply wouldn't be a sound business decision to pay well north of $1 million in refunds in exchange for the incomplete mess that JPop has thrown together so far.

I see two options:

1) People sue JPop, he goes into bankruptcy, buyers get little or nothing. Maybe someone buys the IP and actually makes the games someday or at least uses portions of the designs. But the current buyers would get no "credit" for the down payment money that Jpop pissed away if/when games are made using IP purchased in the bankruptcy. This is by far the most likely to occur.

2) Some variant of the (admittedly terribly pitched and probably not fully thought out) deal that JPop's currently hawking gets done. Every single buyer (or enough that refunding a few holdouts is not a deal breaker) signs on and agrees not to sue for a refund. Unless Zidware had insane profit margins on all of the games, something's got to give and the current buyers will effectively have to pay more than initially agreed for the pins. Otherwise, the new investor is promising to make the games for original MSRP minus ~ $5k, and that's just not realistic. These are niche market games, they're never going to sell 500+ to amortize away all the lost deposit funds.

Option 2 is unlikely to work out since most buyers understandably want out at this point. But if there's any chance of it working, I agree with you that it's got to be repackaged and repitched. Identify the new manufacturer, disclose all terms of the new deal, clearly disclose JPop's limited role (firm deadlines, penalties for non-performance, no veto power and no further money to be paid -- his compensation is avoiding bankruptcy). Then maybe there's a shot.

Don't sign it. Jpop turned down better bail out offers just a few months ago.

There is no way that I am signing up for another magical mystery tour with secret investors. The investor needs to come public and sell us on the deal.

They also need to provide more time for investors to decide.

That fact that anyone would still keep Jpop's secrets baffles me. F the guy, out him! The only chance of this thing ever getting back on the rails is NO MORE SECRETS!!!

Sadly, this is the end of the road.

Well that, AND no more Jpop.... there is zero chance of him changing his genetic fabric this late in life. The only way this thing has a chance at all is if an existing manufacturer agreed to take it on. If this mystery investor has never actually manufactured a machine, and Jpop has actually never manufactured a machine, there is going to be very little experience there to actually manufacture a machine.

Pay up, and get your layer out of here.

Pay up, ol' John is working hard this year.

And baby, do the things he says to do.

-

For four years he was feeling good.

For four years he was feeling nice.

You know your man was working hard.

He's Poopadeuce!

Better add a couple more years on then

You fought the good fight Ice. Too bad the people you were fighting for let everybody down.

Unless this investor comes back with a new offer, any further discussion about options is a moot point. There is no way in hell anywhere close to 100% of buyers are going to sign up for the current pitch, which is what they said they needed to move forward.

not to be a broken record, but how do they expect someone to agree to this without knowing who the new company/owner is and how they plan to produce games, that john has been unable to even produce a working prototype.

All indications are that all existing companies that have a demonstrated ability to manufacture a game have zero interest in this project in any form.

If this guy is such a capable businessman, then why is he hiding behind his lawyer? Given how much of the issue has been lack of communication and transparency, certainly this is not the right way to go about it.

I also have to think the vendors and contractors who are unpaid, are not going to just sit back and let the little bit of value of the company has be sold off in this manner.

So there is this mystery Licensee who has a lot of money.

This mystery Licensee wants to do something "for the love of pinball" and wants to get into the business of building pinball machines.

Why would this person not want to just start his own fresh new pinball company from scratch and pay the proper people to design and build a game?

Why would this person think that trying to get involved in this toxic JPOP situation is a good idea?

This is what I think some folks are misunderstanding. From what I can gather, it's not a new buyer of Zidware. It's someone getting licensed to make the games but receiving none of the pre-order funds. So, whoever it is will provide all or half pre-order payment credits in order to keep the customers and roll them into MG.

Or, they can wait and buy the designs on the cheap after Zidware's inevitable bankruptcy and start over fresh while all pre-order money is lost.

How do you know if the new guy is capable if you have to agree without knowing who the new guy is?

The guy/investor/saviour needs to come here and present his proposal CLEARLY. Also, any money anybody submits needs to go to a post JPop controlled Zidware.

I feel sorry for all of you - been a hard day at work, back home with 300+ new posts regarding JPop.
Know what you feel, been predator'ed. Believe it or not, I have more sympathy for Kevin than John... and still have not lost anything with Jpop.

The thing is that the investor could be legit.
But the way Jpop introduced the deal is so bad that no one can accept it. So dumb.
Were I the investor, the first thing I would have asked would have been to ask John to shut up.

The only chance is the mystery guy to show up real soon, apologizes for Jpop (!), change the deadline and accept to re-discuss the terms of the agreement.
- No more 1:2 conversion.
- Give a firm price, with a firm delivery date.
- Give a name and show you invest your money in the adventure.
- Allow full refunds.
- Find a way to pay Jpop's debts.

Assuming I had the $ to be the mystery investor, that's what I would do for the love of pinball.
Sadly, I am not.