(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#9501 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I still don't see why walking away would be a better option than just checking the box that says you'll buy RAZA or AIW when it's ready at 1. You can always walk away later. That's what I'm doing, there's a better chance the new guy makes RAZA than JPOP ever had.

thinking about it ...this is starting to sound like the best option.... for me anyways

#9502 4 years ago

There isn't just one or 2 people thinking this deal is nuts. There is a huge percentage here. That tells you it's been mishandled.

#9503 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Because JPOP walks if you sign. If rather he burn with bankruptcy.

I'm feeling the same way. Would rather get some GUARANTEED satisfaction from this than signing my rights away and HOPING I get a game years from now.

#9504 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I still don't see why walking away would be a better option than just checking the box that says you'll buy RAZA or AIW when it's ready at 1. You can always walk away later.

Walking away is the only option that makes this an actual negotiation. By saying no to a deal which has too short a deadline and is without any details, the buyers would be rejecting an offer while some continue to pursue litigation which keeps the pressure on those involved to make a second offer.

At that point, a second offer can be made with new terms such as: (1) the identity of the person making the offer; (2) the terms of the agreement between the licensee and the licensor; and (3) actual physical inspection and play testing of the prototype at a public pinball festival.

In my experience, almost all first offers are rejected. Deals still get made.

Come back to us with your signature on the e-mail, no contact from John and a bunch of videos and posts from the guys who were blown away by the prototype. I think the reaction to that offer will be much different.

#9505 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

No, it isn't. I just learned of this particular letter with the rest of you. I'm not directly involved in this current proposal; I've just been generally encouraging John to find a way to get the games made and shipped to customers.

Oh, thank god.. I was afraid you had given some insight to this.

#9506 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Because you are signing away your rights to litigation AND getting your hopes up all over again.
The idea is too dumb to be believed.

I guess that's true if you are expecting litigation to save you. I have zero faith in the American legal system, less than JPOP actually.

#9507 4 years ago

No. I think they are broke (not bankrupt - yet). They do have assets - a game a lot of people are talking about.

I think Ice is right about the money. You would be suing for whatever "assets" are left.

Again - Sorry for those involved.

Quoted from iceman44:

I would advise my client to use common sense. Do you believe they are flush with cash and assets

#9508 4 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Doug,
I respect the hell out of you, but surely you can see why everyone is upset. People just spent the last several years being lied to and kept in the dark by John. We now find out that John is indeed broke, and all our money is gone. Then, these new "investors" come along and reveal absolutely no details about their plan to save the company. To make matters worse, they do not even tell us who they are or why we should even take them seriously. All we got is a contract that we are supposed to sign asking us for more money. Of course people are going to be pissed off.

I think/hope this is just the beginning of a new day. More details are coming I'm sure

None of this changes the fact that John is a POS

When the AIW Ponzi scheme monies stopped flowing it had to get to this point

In this case, the money is gone so it's over

Would anybody give John another dime with just him involved?

No. Now we at least have a choice. Not saying we have to like it

#9509 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Because JPOP walks if you sign. I'd rather he burn with bankruptcy.

We burn too.

#9510 4 years ago

Struck me I've read those word before, and not to pick on you iceman, but a search on iceman and 'will get done', does provide some interesting cliff notes of the last few months. Not all the posts apply, but . . .

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread……………mg-raza-and-aiw…?tu=iceman44&tq=WILL+get+done

#9511 4 years ago

If the assets are so valuable why didn't Stern or JJP bail him out?

They told him to get lost

The gift horse here is that you have a choice, yours to make

Nobody likes John or the situation

#9512 4 years ago
Quoted from pinlynx:

I was just making the point that there's still assets that have (a yet undetermined) value. Hell, Stern or PPS or Circus Maximus or anyone could buy the assets cheap in bankruptcy and have a jump start on the design of a new game.

I would venture JPOP's assets are next to nothing. I'm sure the large equipment (CNC, etc.) were all leased and I can't imagine there being a large inventory of parts. A couple of non-working protos and misc parts aren't worth all that much. 4 years of salary, rent and lease payments is a lot of cash/assets down the drain. The only thing that might be have worth anything the IP/concept but in the wake of this whole scandal how much could that be worth now?

#9513 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

There isn't just one or 2 people thinking this deal is nuts. There is a huge percentage here. That tells you it's been mishandled.

The letter and the "plan" are just straight up crazy...... This guy has been playing with rainbows and unicorns for his entire existence.... He is sort of like that one "special" kid you had in your school who was fun to be around for a bit, and you wanted to hang out with because it was fun..... After awhile you realized he only had 30 cards in his deck, you ended up quietly walking away. Only difference here is that people paid a lot of money to hang out with him for awhile.

20
#9514 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I guess that's true if you are expecting litigation to save you. I have zero faith in the American legal system, less than JPOP actually.

I would not expect any good outcome from any litigation - but at least if you sue, you have had control over something in this mess.

If you sign you:

1. Don't get to sue.
2. Don't know how much the game will cost.
3. Don't know who's going to build or supply replacement parts.
4. Don't even get full credit for money you paid towards a game.
5. Get to be the chump who held on to fairy dust for 4 more years.

I've never seen a dumber "contract" for someone to sign in my entire life.

If the hard copy sent to you for signing is hand printed on a table napkin, I will not be surprised.

#9515 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

Struck me I've read those word before, and not to pick on you iceman, but a search on iceman and 'will get done', does provide some interesting cliff notes of the last few months. Not all the posts apply, but . . .
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread……………mg-raza-and-aiw…?tu=iceman44&tq=WILL+get+done

That statement was more full of hope and lacking in facts and reality

Based on the facts I know now, it's significant hope and what I mean is based on his track record and what he does, IF it goes forward in confident in him that it WILL get done

I understand folks skepticism. This is just my opinion

#9516 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Because JPOP walks if you sign. I'd rather he burn with bankruptcy.

Quoted from frolic:

I'm feeling the same way. Would rather get some GUARANTEED satisfaction from this than signing my rights away and HOPING I get a game years from now.

I agree with both of you. That letter was a complete insult to anyone in on RAZA or AIW. I have no interest in riding this train another 4-5 YEARS just to see if this turns out, and let John off the hook in the meantime.

The least I consider equitable is 1 transfer of funds to a pre-defined and specifically articulated MG standard (what will be different about it and still justify that high of a price) at the same price RAZA was supposed to be. I still get screwed because I get a game I don't want, but I don't take it up the ass 2 or 3 additional ways as well. At least I could sell the game if it ever completes.

#9517 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

That statement was more full of hope and lacking in facts and reality
Based on the facts I know now, it's significant hope and what I mean is based on his track record and what he does, IF it goes forward in confident in him that it WILL get done
I understand folks skepticism. This is just my opinion

Iceman stop digging yourself a hole. Do the community a favor and drain the thread because all you are doing right now is poking a hornet's nest.

#9518 4 years ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Scared of what!!!??!!!
you have a concrete can't miss no risk case against Zidware.
Honestly if it was my money I would make his life as difficult as possible.

It's a "concrete can't miss no risk case" except for the single most important factor when you consider suing somebody -- will they be able to pay when you get your judgment?

The most efficient move for those with money in at this point is probably to sit back and wait for the bankruptcy and hope to get a few bucks (and literally, it will be at best a few bucks) back. This sucks, of course, but will at least save you the unnecessary expense of hiring a lawyer and filing a lawsuit now, only to have it put on ice when Zidware inevitably ends up in bankruptcy, at which point you'll be filing a proof of claim anyway along with everyone else he owes money to. It's frustrating under the circumstances, but bankruptcy law is largely designed to keep creditors from making the debtor's life "as difficult as possible."

#9519 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If the assets are so valuable why didn't Stern or JJP bail him out?

Because he does not have a game to sell them.

Do you think Stern or JJP can't hire an artist to make a pretty playfield? They are not going to pay good money for a wisp of a game.

#9520 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

That statement was more full of hope and lacking in facts and reality
Based on the facts I know now, it's significant hope and what I mean is based on his track record and what he does, IF it goes forward in confident in him that it WILL get done
I understand folks skepticism. This is just my opinion

I think those cliff notes show the continuing struggle of this thread between hope and dismay, optimism and skepticism, and this latest news is really more of the same, even more so, since there is now a choice people have to make.

#9521 4 years ago

To me, this outcome and plan reads like a casino taking you for thousands, then asking you to change a few thousand more in chips at a different casino and hit the tables just one more time and maybe, just maybe, it will all work out...

-2
#9522 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I would not expect any good outcome from any litigation - but at least if you sue, you have had control over something in this mess.
If you sign you:
1. Don't get to sue.
2. Don't know how much the game will cost.
3. Don't know who's going to build or supply replacement parts.
4. Don't even get full credit for money you paid towards a game.
5. Get to be the chump who held on to fairy dust for 4 more years.
I've never seen a dumber "contract" for someone to sign in my entire life.
If the hard copy sent to you for signing is hand printed on a table napkin, I will not be surprised.

The advice to sue John now is Assinine. But hey, knock yourselves out

The other option is just walk away

Maybe it's lost on some people that John wouldn't be running the show anymore. Thus, you have to decide if you think the new guy is capable or not

12
#9523 4 years ago

Stern and JJP didn't bail him out for the same reason they didn't offer him a job, he is impossible to work with.

#9524 4 years ago

I woulds say that the "liabilities" outweighed the assets.

Quoted from iceman44:If the assets are so valuable why didn't Stern or JJP bail him out?
They told him to get lost
The gift horse here is that you have a choice, yours to make
Nobody likes John or the situation

#9525 4 years ago
Quoted from dung:

Iceman stop digging yourself a hole. Do the community a favor and drain the thread because all you are doing right now is poking a hornet's nest.

He's an owner, using your analogy he's a hornet.

#9526 4 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Making pinballs is hard.
Refunding is hard.
Buying pinballs is hard.

Spending other people's pre-order money without producing anything is EASY.

#9527 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

I'm sure not getting ripped off with the 50 cents on the dollar BS is high on a lot of RAZA buyers list.

The only "DECENT and HONOURABLE" offer be to would allow RAZA/AIW buyers to roll their funds into either MG version of their choice at 1

I have long given up on John possessing either of these qualities.

#9528 4 years ago

If the investor is bringing $1mil to the table, I would imagine that goes towards manufacturing the machines that they are receiving no funds to build. This situation would mean someone who hasn't been paid by the customers (at least in part) is footing the bill for production. John isn't relaying any funds to them as I understand it. There's really no reason to direct anger at the 'investor'.

Having said that, this deal sounds like an awful choice to have to make. Either way you are gambling away more money in hopes of recouping some of your losses, or you're just eating the loss altogether. It's like choosing between being hung or drawn and quartered. A friend of mine is in on MG and RAZA. My sympathies to you all.

-1
#9529 4 years ago
Quoted from dung:

Iceman stop digging yourself a hole. Do the community a favor and drain the thread because all you are doing right now is poking a hornet's nest.

I'm sure you are quite capable of digging your own hole

I don't need you to tell me anything

#9530 4 years ago

We already are burnt.

#9531 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

Ice has every right to post his opinions here. He's also an owner, by your analogy he's a hornet.

A hornet who is incensing his own.

#9532 4 years ago

I think what is bothering people the most is that it feels like a strong arm tactic. They are shoving a contract in our faces and basically saying, "Sign it or else!". They should have sent out a letter for the purpose of exploration. Instead of a contract it would merely have been a tool to gauge how amenable people were to the various options. Obviously, people would still have been upset, but there wouldn't have been nearly as much blowback. The last thing you want to do is bully people that have already been through the ringer.

#9533 4 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

Stern and JJP didn't bail him out for the same reason they didn't offer him a job, he is impossible to work with.

No shit. How can anybody work with him?

You can't. That's why he has to be put in the corner

17
#9534 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Thus, you have to decide if you think the new guy is capable or not

What are you talking about????

There is NO new guy.

If there was a new guy, he would be here trying to show his lifelong manufacturing accomplishments so you would believe that he was capable of building a machine as complicated as a modern pinball machine.

20
#9535 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Thus, you have to decide if you think the new guy is capable or not

How can anybody decide that when almost nobody knows who he is?

17
#9536 4 years ago

To the mystery investor:

REBOOT today. Distance yourself from everything John said AND the contract. Flush it.

THEN present yourself, your plan, how you will do this and DO NOT ASK US FOR ANYTHING.

If people want refunds.... well, refund them. That will be the cost of doing business.

If you are planning on selling hundreds of games, well there is profit there. If you're an investor, then this is a risk/reward play.

#9537 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Maybe it's lost on some people that John wouldn't be running the show anymore. Thus, you have to decide if you think the new guy is capable or not

Even if the mystery new guy is capable, he still has to work with the other guy that isn't. That is the part that is going through most people's minds right now. If all the rights were just given to someone else and the mad scientist was kicked out of the lab, a lot of people might hang around just because there was someone else in there that wasn't going to blow the place up.

-1
#9538 4 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

I think what is bothering people the most is that it feels like a strong arm tactic. They are shoving a contract in our faces and basically saying, "Sign it or else!". They should have sent out a letter for the purpose of exploration. Instead of a contract it would merely have been a tool to gauge how amenable people were to the various options. Obviously, people would still have been upset, but there wouldn't have been nearly as much blowback. The last thing you want to do is bully people that have already been through the ringer.

I agree with that. The presentation could have been handled better

Judge this when all the facts are out

And I agree,it should include more time to evaluate

But if anybody thinks litigation is right answer, it's not

There is only one lawsuit on record now

Where is everybody else? Come on. Let's get some satisfaction. See how it makes you feel

-4
#9539 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

What are you talking about????
There is NO new guy.
If there was a new guy, he would be here trying to show his lifelong manufacturing accomplishments so you would believe that he was capable of building a machine as complicated as a modern pinball machine.

Wtf are you talking about?

#9540 4 years ago
Quoted from ralphwiggum:

Even if the mystery new guy is capable, he still has to work with the other guy that isn't. That is the part that is going through most people's minds right now. If all the rights were just given to someone else and the mad professor was kicked out of the lab, a lot of people might hang around just because there was someone else in there that wasn't going to blow the place up.

I get the feeling that this "consultant" thing is in name only. No WAY Jpop will get paid further - I think he just wants to help his babies get born....but he probably won't have any "rights" from now on to ask for more art changes, revisions, etc....but he'll answer questions and whatnot.

#9541 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If the hard copy sent to you for signing is hand printed on a table napkin, I will not be surprised.

I don't think that part has been in this thread yet, just quoted. This is it if anyone cares:

Order-Confirm.pdf

Forum embed treats white as transparent over a black background, so you have to click to read it.

#9542 4 years ago

The problem with the failed launch is that the ghost has already lost credibility. To get an email from John at 1:30 A.M. in which he is seemingly excited to present me the opportunity to enter into an agreement with a phantom makes me wonder about the acumen of the phantom. Did anyone think we wanted to hear from John about a mystery savior?

#9543 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I still don't see why walking away would be a better option than just checking the box that says you'll buy RAZA or AIW when it's ready at 1. You can always walk away later. That's what I'm doing, there's a better chance the new guy makes RAZA than JPOP ever had.

you don't even know who the new guy is!!

i guess some people are just destined to be taken advantage of.

#9544 4 years ago
Quoted from ralphwiggum:

Even if the mystery new guy is capable, he still has to work with the other guy that isn't. That is the part that is going through most people's minds right now. If all the rights were just given to someone else and the mad scientist was kicked out of the lab, a lot of people might hang around just because there was someone else in there that wasn't going to blow the place up.

Using that rationale it's long been over and can never work. Might be true

If that's what you believe there is no point in even worrying about it. It's done

19
#9545 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Judge this when all the facts are out

How the F is someone supposed to do that when this little gem is in the document?

"Completed Certifications must be received by June 1, 2015."

When exactly are the rest of the facts going to appear?

#9546 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

There IS an investor. One we are very lucky to have.
I'll let him reveal himself. He's doing it for love of pinball. Who else is gonna jump into this shitstorm?
Option A. Don't agree to this. Sue John personally. Zidware is broke. Good luck with that
Option B. Agree to this and you get a pinball machine. Investor is risking over 1 million bucks
We all knew there would be more MGs to make the numbers work
You get John OUT of the $$$ part. What more do you want?

Please tell me this person's name is not David Richter (AKA SJ1000 on Pinside?). He has claimed to have millions of dollars and to invest in other Pinball companies including most recently trying to bail out JJP (that is his claim, not mine.) Much talk. Little realistic action.

#9547 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Where is everybody else? Come on. Let's get some satisfaction. See how it makes you feel

You are approaching this logically as a lawyer. You already know the outcome of a lawsuit, and know there are no winners. The real question is- Do you do what makes you feel good, or do you what is "right"? If someone robbed me and I ran into them on the street later and they didn't have my money, I can tell you there is a 99% chance that I am going to make the decision to do what makes me feel good at that moment, not what is "right".

#9548 4 years ago

Is the mystery investor Bill Gates? He's donated over 28 billion to charity including $10 billion to worthy causes such as the Vaccine program. What's an extra million to help get pinball machines built for a bunch of moderately wealthy collectors... It's for the love of pinball after all

-11
#9549 4 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

you don't even know who the new guy is!!
i guess some people are just destined to be taken advantage of.

Don't tell me who I know and who I don't. I know who the new guy is and it's not my place to "out" him. He can step forward when he wants.

#9550 4 years ago

I started a gofundme campaign to get all the money back that's been stolen from me through pinside preorders.

My goal is $60,000

http://www.gofundme.com/briqxw

Hobbit, Predator, Big Labowski, La Raza, Magic Girl, Aliens, and probably JAWS

Please help, any donation is appreciated.

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