(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#9451 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

Retainer won't cost 30% of that. Usually 10 hours up front will do it. I don't think you need $1,000/hour attorney here.

I don't what it costs. You and others have and will just throw good money after bad.

Let me know how much you recover

#9452 4 years ago

Wonder how much "for the love of pinball" has cost pinheads over the years?

One of the dumbest statements made here.

#9453 4 years ago

I'm getting all kinds of conflicting info about the "mystery" person, their intentions, etc.

I'll just say this:

This couldn't have been handled in a worse way. That a nuclear bomb today went off with so much reaction to BOTH John AND the "mystery" person, this is not being received as some charitable endeavor, even though apparently the intent is charity????

If there are missing pieces we don't know.... well... yeah, that is a problem and causing this reaction. Don't blame us for not throwing our hands in the air screaming "hallelujah!". This whole thing is messed up!

#9454 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

There IS an investor. One we are very lucky to have.
I'll let him reveal himself. He's doing it for love of pinball. Who else is gonna jump into this shitstorm?
Option A. Don't agree to this. Sue John personally. Zidware is broke. Good luck with that
Option B. Agree to this and you get a pinball machine. Investor is risking over 1 million bucks
We all knew there would be more MGs to make the numbers work
You get John OUT of the $$$ part. What more do you want?

Ice - how is the investor risking over $1,000,000?

16
#9455 4 years ago

Once again the lack of transparency is killing this effort. Unless the mystery investor comes forward this doesn't stand a chance.

-3
#9456 4 years ago
Quoted from s1500:

Dude, don't Whysnow us here

You are a donkey

Mods> when i get a thread eject because he whines that i called him a donkey, please make sure this donkey gets a nut punch on his way out also.

Keep in mind is was banned for ultimately using someones name as a verb. If you want to take the same action with this donkey that would be just.

16
#9457 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I swear I don't know wtf is wrong with some of you people

Sometimes you're very level headed and sometimes you fly off the sanity wagon IMO. What is yet another person with no experience making a pinball machine, ASKING FOR MORE MONEY, going to do to magic up these machines? So Ice says toss more money in, this is a blessing?? What happens if THIS round goes tits-up? Should the people do it again with the next "secret" investor? If someone has a plan it's time to lay it out now. Only an idiot would give this effort more money not knowing any more details than have been presented.

#9458 4 years ago

For the "love of pinball", go ahead, proceed with the litigation. It's not about getting preoder $ back, it's about future pinheads not getting rooked for what would be a 4th time(losing count) on things like this. Otherwise, it's just going to happen again. Look, new shiny pin, gimme preorder $, have "problems", money never gets refunded.

If somehow it all comes crashing down and the 3 MG prototypes are found, don't auction them off or try to sell them. There would be fighting on who deserves it("I paid more preorder money!") and people trying to buy them out underneath each other. I would say dismantle it and let the parts sit in a warehouse like the Ark of the Covenant.

17
#9459 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

BS. He's not an idiot either.
I wouldn't do it. I hope he tells everybody to F themselves
Don't like it? You don't get shit and we move on
I swear I don't know wtf is wrong with some of you people
You also have the option to go away and not do anything
Nobody likes John and he's a POS for doing what he did.
That doesn't change the reality of the situation. Deal with it

You don't see how this is F'd up for everyone outside the Jpop-bubble's POV?

-Mystery investor saving the day
-Sign in 4 days, take the deal & promise not to sue or GET NOTHING
-Change your RAZA order to MGLE & pay more
-Want RAZA? Wait 4 years.

This is a horrible deal. If someone is saving this project "for the love of pinball", this is not the way to do it.

-23
#9460 4 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Everyone who has ever tried to work with and help John with these Zidware games have done it "for the love of pinball"... and look what happened to all of them. They all got screwed.

You guys can do whatever the F you want.

Move on, sue John, whatever.

Consult your local attorney

The Investor would be dumber than John to assume the liabilities. Based on the reception here there won't be 199 to sell so it might be over anyhow before it starts

This is exactly why Im glad I'm not involved. The world won't let you be a nice guy

It will be funny when he pulls the plug and says go F yourselves

Then we can all go back to crying about John

67
#9461 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

There IS an investor. One we are very lucky to have.
I'll let him reveal himself. He's doing it for love of pinball. Who else is gonna jump into this shitstorm?
Option A. Don't agree to this. Sue John personally. Zidware is broke. Good luck with that
Option B. Agree to this and you get a pinball machine. Investor is risking over 1 million bucks
We all knew there would be more MGs to make the numbers work
You get John OUT of the $$$ part. What more do you want?

Ice - you are a lawyer - would you ever advise a client to sign an agreement to purchase something from an unknown entity at an unknown price to be delivered at an unknown time that puts no duty on the unknown entity and absolves the responsible party from all liability?

#9462 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

RUN YOU STUPID MOTHERFNCKERS!!!!

#9463 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You guys can do whatever the F you want.
Move on, sue John, whatever.
Consult your local attorney
The Investor would be dumber than John to assume the liabilities. Based on the reception here there won't be 199 to sell so it might be over anyhow before it starts
This is exactly why Im glad I'm not involved. The world won't let you be a nice guy
It will be funny when he pulls the plug and says go F yourselves
Then we can all go back to crying about John

Better yet,start taking action right NOW to go after jpop.

Show up at his memorial dya bbq for all I care, just do something. find a lawyer, open a case on your own, try and file a chargeback. Do it all NOW! ASAP

This thing is beyond dead and every day sooner you react can do nothing but improve your already small chances of getting anything back.

27
#9464 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The Investor would be dumber than John to assume the liabilities. Based on the reception here there won't be 199 to sell so it might be over anyhow before it starts

Dude, as toxic as this is? Is there ANY reality to people buying 199 $16,000 pinball machines!?!??!?! Are you F'ing mad!?!? The ONLY way this works is if EVERY RAZA buyer switches over (125?) + 16 MG buyers...that's 141...you really think 58 MORE people are gonna sign on? ...and that's assuming all the RAZA's switch over. This deal is stupid. It's unrealistic. It's insulting.

MYSTERY INVESTOR: SHOW YOURSELF...and fix the deal....FOR THE LOVE OF PINBALL.

#9465 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

There IS an investor. One we are very lucky to have.
I'll let him reveal himself. He's doing it for love of pinball. Who else is gonna jump into this shitstorm?
Option B. Agree to this and you get a pinball machine. Investor is risking over 1 million bucks

Ok, I'll bite. How is this investor risking over $1mm? What am I missing here? He/she is not buying any of the assets nor assuming any of the liabilities, correct? I can't imagine the IP costing anything. Buying the customer base? (sure, done all the time when there is a revenue flow but that is not the case and it's not like one couldn't capture that same base for a few bucks). So where is the $1mm being spent? Second, I assume if he/she is risking the $, they expect a return on their investment. If not, if they are simply a philanthropist, why not just make a gift to everyone who has paid a deposit to make them somewhat whole?

Now let me be clear, I have nothing against the 'investor'. In fact, I don't understand the anger towards them. Seems like they see an opportunity to make a few $ and have priced the games accordingly (including the need to cover any credits for previous payments to JPOP. Again, I don't blame them for doing that. If I take my car to a mechanic and they don't fix it so I have to take it to another garage, it's not like the new mechanic is going to give my a discount because I wasted $500 with the first mechanic)

#9466 4 years ago

Ice, maybe you are too "inside" and know a lot more about this deal than others. Try and view it from how its been presented, especially in light of the lies and deceit we've been subject to this entire time.

-5
#9467 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

You don't see how this is F'd up from everyone outside the Jpop-bubble's POV?
-Mystery investor saving the day
-Sign in 4 days, take the deal & promise not to sue or GET NOTHING
-Change your RAZA order to MGLE & pay more
-Want RAZA? Wait 4 years.
This is a horrible deal. If someone is saving this project "for the love of pinball", this is not the way to do it.

You might think differently if it was your 1 million that was at risk

He asked me if I wanted to be involved and I considered it and then said he was nuts. BUT, with him involved it WILL get done.

You do understand that he nor anybody else would drop a dime in with the onslaught of litigation

So if that's what you want, the other option is Zippo

#9468 4 years ago
Quoted from pinlynx:

Zidware may not have cash, but they do have assets. The prototypes, artwork, patents, etc are all assets that will be liquidated during bankruptcy in order to pay the line of creditors.

If they're auctioned off, how much money would someone pay for those pinball related ideas and papermache prototypes?
10k, 20k $$$?
That money would be long gone before even considering doing some refunds...

Really, after it was clear that Jpop can't finish this on his own, everybody should have known that ANY possible solution or outcome would screw over the prepay folks.
The money is gone and thus Zidware not able to refund nor build a damn machine.
Even winning a lawsuit would not change that - so all that's left to gain would be revenge on Jpop, if that's what people after.

And no one, not even the biggest pinball enthusiast, steps up and takes over a more than shaky business opportunity like this, just to build and deliver pins for "free" for some poor souls that gave their money to the wrong man.

10
#9469 4 years ago

Unless the investor has access to the stern assembly line I say casino odds on getting a game through mystery savior.

13
#9470 4 years ago

Ice, reveal who this "investor" is. Why is it secret? It doesn't make sense. And how do you know who it is? I don't want a $16000 MG with 199 units made. I don't want half value towards and unlimited MG model at $10000. I don't want 1/2 credit towards the same machine I bought in for. I want out or the machine I bought into at the price I bought into it at. If that can't happen I want Zidware and John to burn.

Other owners please contact me if you want to group up for a group suing of Zidware/John. I don't think we can do it individually.

StephenP, if you really helped write this letter to customers then you are a real dirtbag too.

10
#9471 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I don't what it costs. You and others have and will just throw good money after bad.

I don't know much about this situation but I'm pretty sure paying more money towards this project would be the definition of throwing good money after bad.

24
#9472 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Don't like it? You don't get shit and we move on
I swear I don't know wtf is wrong with some of you people

What's wrong is I bought RAZA. I don't want MG, I think it looks like a turd of a game. No interest at any price, and I damn sure am not going to pony up another $10k for it. So my options are pay an ADDITIONAL $10k for a game I don't want, or wait 4-5 MORE YEARS for a game that they admit they might not even make (and if they do, the price is unknown and there is no commitment how much credit I'll get for my deposit).

Head or gut? Forgive me if I'm not jumping for joy.

#9473 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

BUT, with him involved it WILL get done.

You said this about you getting involved about 50 pages ago and here we are. Deja vu...

-3
#9474 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

Ice - you are a lawyer - would you ever advise a client to sign an agreement to purchase something from an unknown entity at an unknown price to be delivered at an unknown time that puts no duty on the unknown entity and absolves the responsible party from all liability?

You guys don't have the benefit of knowing who is behind it yet and the details which I hope he discloses

As a lawyer, I would tell my client NOT to pay me to sue a bankrupt company with the hope that John himself can be held personally liable AND that he isn't judgment proof

Whether you go forward or not, I would want more details

#9475 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You guys don't have the benefit of knowing who is behind it yet and the details which I hope he discloses
As a lawyer, I would tell my client NOT to pay me to sue a bankrupt company with the hope that John himself can be held personally liable AND that he isn't judgment proof
Whether you go forward or not, I would want more details

You're acting like there's only two options. Just walking away is the third and best IMO.

24
#9476 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I would want more details

I've got all your details, right here.

#9477 4 years ago
Quoted from Biv:

If they're auctioned off, how much money would someone pay for those pinball related ideas and papermache prototypes?

I don't expect that an auction would ever make the creditors whole. I was just making the point that there's still assets that have (a yet undetermined) value. Hell, Stern or PPS or Circus Maximus or anyone could buy the assets cheap in bankruptcy and have a jump start on the design of a new game.

#9478 4 years ago

I have opened an new thread, not to compete in any way with this one (as it is really interesting). The purpose of the newer thread is simply to find out what other customers of Zidware are thinking f doing regarding this new situation. Please only contribute to the new thread if you HAVE purchased or deposited on a game and want to know what the other customers are thinking of doing.

I dont want this to cause any confusion, but I do want to know what percentage of buyers are willing to invest more money in the possibility that they will eventually receive a game.

Thanks!
Rob

-1
#9479 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

You said this about you getting involved about 50 pages ago and here we are. Deja vu...

Yep, here we are, with an option

I was obviously the wrong choice for John. Nor would I invest in John the more I knew and didn't know

So what?

12
#9480 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You guys don't have the benefit of knowing who is behind it yet and the details which I hope he discloses
As a lawyer, I would tell my client NOT to pay me to sue a bankrupt company with the hope that John himself can be held personally liable AND that he isn't judgment proof
Whether you go forward or not, I would want more details

Ice - you ducked the question and said you hope more info comes out. You have to admit that, without your insider information, you could not advise a client to sign what has been presented.

#9481 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You might think differently if it was your 1 million that was at risk
He asked me if I wanted to be involved and I considered it and then said he was nuts. BUT, with him involved it WILL get done.
You do understand that he nor anybody else would drop a dime in with the onslaught of litigation
So if that's what you want, the other option is Zippo

If the letter today was an announcement that $1 MILLION was being invested in JPOP and games will be built, there would be no onslaught of litigation. There would be hope and a whole new level of patience. Plus, there would probably be a line of people wanting to buy these games, ONCE THEY ARE PRODUCED.

It's the whole "hocus-pocus" of sign this, commit to that, hurry up, or lose it all, that leaves a pit in my stomach.

#9482 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

You're acting like there's only two options. Just walking away is the third and best IMO.

I believe I stated option 3 a few times

Don't misrepresent what I'm saying

Walking away certainly will be the best option for many

#9483 4 years ago
Quoted from Robo1:

I have opened an new thread, not to compete in any way with this one (as it is really interesting). The purpose of the newer thread is simply to find out what other customers of Zidware are thinking f doing regarding this new situation. Please only contribute to the new thread if you HAVE purchased or deposited on a game and want to know what the other customers are thinking of doing.
I dont want this to cause any confusion, but I do want to know what percentage of buyers are willing to invest more money in the possibility that they will eventually receive a game.
Thanks!
Rob

We already have an owners group on FB for that.

#9484 4 years ago

I assume that they have not filed for bankruptcy (yet).

Quoted from iceman44:As a lawyer, I would tell my client NOT to pay me to sue a bankrupt company

#9485 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

Ice - you ducked the question and said you hope more info comes out. You have to admit that, without your insider information, you could not advise a client to sign what has been presented.

I agree with that

Yeti is right too, he has met the guy

I believe in the letter open communication is coming

I would advise him to extend the deadline a few weeks so everybody can do their own proper due diligence

#9486 4 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Unless the investor has access to the stern assembly line I say casino odds on getting a game through mystery savior.

Quoted from Pimp77:

199 units made. I

In what country,on what planet,in which universe does 199 MG's get made?

What factory,I mean,theres only 2,(Stern or JJP) is gonna tool up for a proprietary game with nonstandard cab and glass?

#9487 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You might think differently if it was your 1 million that was at risk

If you have a million at risk, why do it THIS way? It just doesn't make any sense to jump into this thing alienating people and pissing off everyone.

Personally, I think my options were more reasonable for the risk taking investor.

Once again:

A.) Refund everyone, make the game you believe in, sell it. Clean slate, all forgiven, if the game is awesome (it must be if he's taking this on), it will sell.

B.) Automatically transfer all RAZAs to MG without any extra cost or 50c on the $ bullshit. It may not make everyone happy but that type of goodwill can go a long way in this situation.

Oh, and NO MORE F*CKING SECRETS!

#9488 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I believe I stated option 3 a few times
Don't misrepresent what I'm saying
Walking away certainly will be the best option for many

I still don't see why walking away would be a better option than just checking the box that says you'll buy RAZA or AIW when it's ready at 1. You can always walk away later. That's what I'm doing, there's a better chance the new guy makes RAZA than JPOP ever had.

11
#9489 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

MYSTERY INVESTOR: SHOW YOURSELF...and fix the deal....FOR THE LOVE OF PINBALL

I dunno man, this whole thing has a really familiar vibe to it.... the only difference is that doors number 1, 2, and 3 all have a goat behind them...

lmad.JPG

15
#9490 4 years ago

This new deal should have never been delivered by John, in John's words. This is DOA because of it. "Removing" him should have meant the new owner deliver whatever news of the deal.

17
#9491 4 years ago

Doug,

I respect the hell out of you, but surely you can see why everyone is upset. People just spent the last several years being lied to and kept in the dark by John. We now find out that John is indeed broke, and all our money is gone. Then, these new "investors" come along and reveal absolutely no details about their plan to save the company. To make matters worse, they do not even tell us who they are or why we should take them seriously. All we get is a contract that we are supposed to sign asking us for more money. Of course people are going to be pissed off.

27
#9492 4 years ago

What I don't understand is there is no consistent equity for those with money on RAZA

Let's assume I was paid in full at 10k and a friend is in for 1k and the new standard MG is going to cost 12k.

I have to kick in another 7k or 17k total for the std version
My friend owes 11.5k more for a total cost of 12.5k.

WTF is this shit. Who came up with this plan. Let's kick our most loyal customers in the nuts a few more times

I feel bad for all you guys. Get out now

25
#9493 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I still don't see why walking away would be a better option than just checking the box that says you'll buy RAZA or AIW when it's ready at 1. You can always walk away later.

Because you are signing away your rights to litigation AND getting your hopes up all over again.

The idea is too dumb to be believed.

#9494 4 years ago

I will personally happily take all of the Zidware assets and assume none of the liabilities. I'll even sell you a MG 4 years from now for $10,000, assuming things go well. This is what the "investor" is offering (plus apparently paying JPop as a consultant.)

I have no skin in the game but claiming it's this or nothing is absurd. The bankruptcy court isn't going to let Zidware give away everything moments before they declare and John is just making himself more vulnerable to personal liability if he thinks that's a good idea.

-3
#9495 4 years ago
Quoted from pinsnob:

I assume that they have not filed for bankruptcy (yet).

I would advise my client to use common sense. Do you believe they are flush with cash and assets

#9496 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

We already have an owners group on FB for that.

I'm not part of that...how do I get in on that?

-10
#9497 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I still don't see why walking away would be a better option than just checking the box that says you'll buy RAZA or AIW when it's ready at 1. You can always walk away later. That's what I'm doing, there's a better chance the new guy makes RAZA than JPOP ever had.

I agree Chris. Some people can never be made happy and aren't the brightest bulbs

-8
#9498 4 years ago
Quoted from ecurtz:

I will personally happily take all of the Zidware assets and assume none of the liabilities. I'll even sell you a MG 4 years from now for $10,000, assuming things go well. This is what the "investor" is offering (plus apparently paying JPop as a consultant.)
I have no skin in the game but claiming it's this or nothing is absurd. The bankruptcy court isn't going to let Zidware give away everything moments before they declare and John is just making himself more vulnerable to personal liability if he thinks that's a good idea.

BS you would. You didn't because you can't and don't have the ability to make this work

#9499 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I still don't see why walking away would be a better option than just checking the box that says you'll buy RAZA or AIW when it's ready at 1. You can always walk away later.

Because JPOP walks if you sign. I'd rather he burn with bankruptcy.

15
#9500 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

There could be money left, but now we have a letter from JPop himself saying that he doesn't have any money. The only way to know for sure is to get him into bankruptcy proceedings.
My least favorite part of the letter is how he threatens owners to take one of the new deals offered, otherwise you won't get shit!
This is the letter that StevenP helped him with??

No, it isn't. I just learned of this particular letter with the rest of you. I'm not directly involved in this current proposal; I've just been generally encouraging John to find a way to get the games made and shipped to customers.

Quoted from Pimp77:

StephenP, if you really helped write this letter to customers then you are a real dirtbag too.

It's "StevenP" and no, I did not as noted above. But thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt with the "if" above. Seriously, I am not privy to details of this arrangement. It came as a surprise to me too. Sorry, but I'm not the bad guy here--just the patent lawyer. (OK, Lawdawg!)

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