This new investor is a vulture. At least if they were buying the assets in bankruptcy court those funds would be split among all of the creditors and they would have taken a real risk. This plan has them assuming zero risk. The only obligation they are accepting is the obligation to deliver 25 prepaid MG's, the rest of their guaranteed pre-sales are profitable from the start, and they get all that Jpop'd vendor product and labor for free.

They are also REALLY stupid about the pinball market if they think 199 of these things will sell at that price. Actually, they aren't stupid. They know 199 wouldn't sell at that price. So they are basically hoping to force 199 pre-orderers to accept a shit-sandwich deal because they have them bent over a barrel. The price they know these games will work out profitably at is ~$10k, and they are basically trying to get an additional $8-10K out of every RAZA and AIW buyer by threatening them with getting nothing. It's more pre-order lock-in bullshit.

And honestly, they have zero pinball manufactuting experience as well, just "restructuring companies". In this environment, no one gets the benefit of the doubt anymore, as "Pinball is hard". Though, if this plan does work, they will have close to $2m in locked in pre-order payments to work with for that first run of 199, so they will have every advantage. But so did JPOP… And you know the new corporation will be set up right, so when you sue them in 4 years for non delivery of the game, everyone behind it will be protected and won't have to pay back a dime.

These aren't pinball fans. These aren't community members. Hell this isn't even risk takers. These are vultures.

Screw all of them.

Agreed. But I must be missing something here. I assume people in on AIW or RAZA were in because that is the game they wanted. So the answer is to fund a game (MG) that you did not want at a cost of $10-12k so that you may get the game you really want at an unknown cost to be delivered at an unknown date in the future?

Quote: They have acquired the licenses for these games not motivated by profit"

The biggest red flag in the entire letter from Jpop is where he says the new company isn't motivated by profit.

That line right there, is all you need to know. I realize that may just be John's interpretation of his talks with them, and I realize that this new group is likely composed of members right here in this thread, but "not motivated by profit" is a death knell.

Someone put eyes on jpops shop this weekend.. Take pictures of everything in the shop... Don't take or touch anything just take lots of pictures... This way when u go to court there's proof of what's there he removed

EXACTLY!

Your 9k converts to $4500. MG classic will be 12k. You only need to pay in another $7500 so that you've invested 16.5k for the classic, when the limited only cost 16k.

How anyone dreaming this up could have possibly thought this would be well received. I thought only John was that delusional.

This guy is talking about having a working prototype at a show. How this guy could ever show his face at a pinball expo and not walk away severely damaged is beyond me. This guy has sleaze and scammer dripping off of him. He has scammed people out of their money, lived off of it and done everything he could do to be untouchable through it all. He should run for president.

Making pinballs is hard.

Refunding is hard.

Buying pinballs is hard.

Scamming people is easy

Does anybody really believe there is an investor?

Who is this licensee ?

This is a classic don't sue me move!!!

I smell shit

A case for fraud is currently being built against him ....... if he gets convicted (& that's a big IF) the bankruptcy wont completely protect him (or at all) from a judgment being levied .... collecting on that judgment is another story altogether that's the way I understand it anyhow & like cheeks said previously for those of us that are paid in to the tune of 4 to 6 grand its probably not worth the attorney fees

I'm not a lawyer, but the way the 'offer' is worded, pressuring you to sign or else may in itself be criminal to the right law attorney.

Several pinsiders have expressed first hand knowledge of who is behind this move. So he exists. Sure would be nice if they would show their face and explain to us how they aren't a vulture. I would love to hear that explanation.

Completely understand. I did not mean to imply that you knew any behind the scenes details. I was only commenting on *what could of been* and what actually ended up happening.

Holy shit. F********************K THAT. Wow.

It's right in the letter:

Zidware deposits will be converted 1:2 (eg. $6,500 deposit = $3,250 credits) for this option.

Clear as day.

Pinball Hall of Shame

Wayne-O
Bumper
Vonnie D & Wes Upchurch
Kevin Kulek
John A Popaduik Jr.

Did I miss anyone?

Someone should write a book, take a cut, and have the rest of the proceeds go to the Pinside Pre-Order Disaster Relief Fund.

Hoooolllly shhiiiitt........Jpop, man....you are a vomit's vomit.

While this new deal just seems like a butt-covering scam....let me try to wrap my head around it.

Basically, RAZA and AIW are done. NO ONE will want to wait 4 more years and no one wants HALF-CREDIT toward MG "standard". They're hoping EVERY person with a deposit on these projects will convert to MG"LE". This deal is to strong-arm people into committing to the 199 MG's....money's gone, no refunds, so - no choice, hop on this great new deal!

It's a doozy...maybe Zombieyeti's instincts are right this time and these new guys are legit - however, how on earth could they present this deal and be SECRETIVE!?!? Secrets are what boned this project from the beginning. Whoever this new licensee is - they need to step forward, introduce themselves, layout their credentials and SPECIFICS as to how this thing is going to get finished. I don't believe anyone can stomach more faith at this point.

Aye-yai-yai! ...I don't envy you dudes with money in on this. If this new shit is legit, switching to MG might be the only way you'll get something for your money....but what a kick in the nuts having to trust some other mystery-man *AND* pay more *AND* wait more. Ugh....clusterfuck city.

My condolences and I hope this somehow works out.....but Jpop - you're over. He's so self unaware though, he'll probably still show up at pinball shows thinking people will be happy to see him.

Is it too late to take pdxmonkey up on his 50 cents on the dollar offer?

As a nerd, this is actually backwards..

1:2 means that $6,500 deposit = $13,000 credits.
1/2 = 6500 / 13000

2/1 would mean 6500 / 3250.

That line reads '..will be converted one to two..'.

So technically, any lawyer could find a big hole in that 'agreement' letter. (Assuming any of the rest of it is enforceable..)

--Me.

I don't doubt this for a second.

Earlier I said that I felt sorry for John. But now I am certain he's a complete POS

Half credit?

4 more years?

He needs to be forced under and his personal property liquidated to pay all the claims.

This plan is a quagmire and a joke. Someone else can walk in 4 years from now and buy a cheaper MG after waiting until it's built but the original buyers have to take 50% of what they payed 4 years ago?

POS

I missed that. That's effing crazy. I thought it was maybe interesting, but now I think it's insane.

Kind of similar to Sheldon on BBT.

Yeah, agreed, that's why I read it that way too.

Amen.

Maybe he is the investor :p

Randy Buffalo!!!!

I believe JPOP is offering the same 2 conversion. Bring on a bidding war!

$10k by Christmas....no never mind
$12k by Christmas....no never mind
$16k by Christmas.....no never mind
$16k (maybe) ...in 4 long years.

Wow.....

What blows my mind is, his is $16k for a pin that might not even play well. It could stink. There is no know top coder to work on this like Keith Johnson, so 199 people may be paying premium dollar without even knowing if it's going to be any good.
Hell you can get two JJP LE pinballs for that money.

This is now Jpop's theme song:

Wow a Randy Buffalo reference going back to old school crooks!

Feel for everyone involved. As someone who was pretty close to BHZA purchase, I feel pretty lucky today (I still have TBL delivery to get through). Hopefully your wives are understanding about losing that kind money

Is anyone considering any of these ways to stay in?

It isn't a real thread until somebody breaks out the Wesley Willis.

Okay....who are these several that have this first hand knowledge?
If he exists, who is it and why the big secret?

What good will it do? Why is this even being discussed? You think if every owner files a lawsuit we will all get our money back? This only works if there is money left. What about John Popadiuks and the way he's operated his business makes you think there is ANY money left? The whole lawsuit thing is a nonstarter. May as well sue him for 3 billion, why settle for $30,000.

The difference is that JPOP is offering you his 50% in Certified JPOPBucks™ good towards the purchase of a machine by his new Mystery Friends®! If you claim it now, they might even tell you who they are!

Then Again, I am not convinced that PDXMonkey isn't one of the Mystery Friends®, so his offer might have been for JPOPBucks™ also. But, also, he is just buying MG spots, not RAZA/AIW spots. MG preowners are the only ones who don't have to pay any extra, and are at the very front of the line. So while everyone else is getting $14-16k MG standard editions, he would be getting an $8k MG LE at the very front of the line. Seems pretty shrewd, almost as shrewd as offering to take over a pinball company with zero risk and zero obligation to hundreds of buyers, vendors, and contractors that covered the first 4 years of development...

You are not getting any money back but you can still make Jon poops life a living hell for a long time.

New post over in skit-b thread, Kevin has been seen, as he showed up, with his lawyer, at the courthouse for the first, of what could be many, lawsuits. The judgement went against him (no surprise there) and he has 21 days to refund the complainant. Sounds like the criminal investigation is not going to result in charges. And when asked by the judge about all the others owed refunds, he has stated he hopes to refund the rest of the money in 60 to 90 days. Obviously not the last chapter in that story.

The bullshit gets deeper.

I had been hearing rumors of a deal to "save" the games and remove jpop. The motives behind it may have been OK, but the execution is a nightmare.

The hiding in the shadows, having John present the offer, the 2 for 1 Jpop Bucks, the 4 year "no sue", the 1 week contract, everything about it was a misfire. Based on that I have no faith in anything else.

If JPop isn't paying any vendors for parts, software development, and art then where is all the money going? Did he really blow more than a million dollars on rent, personal salary, patents, and parts for a few prototypes?

This whole situation stinks for everyone with money on the line! I hope no one is dumb enough to send him another dime and hope he ends up getting punished for his lies and deception.

Yet 5 months ago when he was interviewed by pinballnews, he said "the refund process has begun and a number of those who pre-ordered have already received repayments"

Funny how many people don't act until they are forced to do so.

This "deal" looks much better when viewed through the proper lenses....

john_skit.jpg

Having John present the offer might have been the biggest misfire here. Everything that guy touches is toxic. Had it been presented from the new licensee as "I'm here to offer to cleanup John Popadiuks mess but I'm not doing it for free, these are the terms if you want my help to make something happen" the reception might have been different.

The deal is with the new licensee to determine if it's even worth their time to pursue this charity. Not John Popadiuk, Zidware is done and out of the picture. And I use the word charity because he could just as easily pick up the assets for pennies after John Popadiuk files for bankruptcy and we all walk away with squat while he makes the games we all paid for.

Is the deal perfect? No.
Is there a better alternative? I'm all ears...

Who is Marsh?

Is this the secret Licensee?

Just read about the latest 199 MG's at 16k news and cannot stop laughing. It might as well have first appeared on The Onion. Can you say delusional? Still sorry for the folks who were (are) onboard and can't get out. I certainly wouldn't view this "plan" as any glimmer of hope. The only thing JPop can try and do is find an outside investor to fund his business and complete these games as originally promised. Raising more capital from pinheads already disgusted with him is not happening.

In general it is not a good idea to throw good money after bad.

I know nothing about the new licensee and everything MAY turn out fine. But rather than putting any more money in and then worrying for two years about whether a pinball machine will eventually emerge, why not spend the same money on one or two pinball machines that actually exist today and enjoy this great hobby of ours?

As Kenny Rodgers said, Know when to walk away...

If you read only one post in this thread, it should be this one by NPO:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6mg-raza-and-aiw%E2%80%A6/page/187#post-2465223