(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#8251 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

All other problem aside, software is the deal-breaker in this scenario. Even assuming final hardware, you're talking 80k for a programmer to spend a year making a game people want to play. TIMES THREE GAMES. (and that's not even considering art / sound / dots)

Grunt programmers that can only follow instructions cost $80k + benefits. Real architects/developers cost quite a bit more. I think John would need to lay out around $130k + benefits to get someone that could handle both the SDLC management and the actual coding.

21
#8252 4 years ago

"Pdxmonkey said:
2.) I dunno about your case but John calls me back within 24 hours everytime if he doesn't pick up when I call. Perhaps he didn't care for your tone of questions?"

This REALLY bothered me because John was returning my phone calls up to a few weeks ago. When I started asking him tough questions and demanding answers and interrupting him when he tried to change the subject, that's when he must have put me on his blacklist. In his book, I obviously went from fan-boy to disgruntled customer and was immediately put on his blocked callers list. Dear John, no matter how this thing winds up, whether these games ever game made, how you are perceived in the future of pinball history, I personally think your a fucking loser, a big time fucking loser.

#8253 4 years ago

There's only ~100 zidware customers total, and John has blocked most of them.

#8254 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

There's only ~100 zidware customers total, and John has blocked most of them.

besides all the other nonsense about not delivering pins, I know making pinball machines is hard.

But this is disgraceful. The customers are the reason why these projects exist. John would be less zero if it wasn't for the people who backed him on these projects. They deserve to be treated with respect.

#8255 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

besides all the other nonsense about not delivering pins, I know making pinball machines is hard.
But this is disgraceful. The customers are the reason why these projects exist. John would be less zero if it wasn't for the people who backed him on these projects. They deserve to be treated with respect.

maybe that's what he meant by nda... non-disclosure means non-disclosure, and that applies to everybody equally - even John. rest assured, the harder I laugh and make jokes here, is really only to mask the pain and absurdity of the situation. No disrespect is directed at buyers. I was almost in on RAZA late in the game when the timetables had stretched, people were in the dark and a few were visiting the shop and letting us know how awesome things were. I considered scooping up a vacated spot (had I done that, maybe one of you would have got some money back ). Spoke to John a few times by phone, but based on all available info, decided he was way too disorganized and believed best case was a great game delivered in 10 years. Too much risk for the situation, but still feel lucky avoiding this one. Sorry it is going this way. Maybe we'll get to see some ramps in a few days guys, right?

#8256 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Here's something to consider - maybe the best "least worst" option with Zidware is he ditches 2 games and rolls everyone into whatever game is most finished?
All other problem aside, software is the deal-breaker in this scenario. Even assuming final hardware, you're talking 80k for a programmer to spend a year making a game people want to play. TIMES THREE GAMES. (and that's not even considering art / sound / dots)
"Oh but someone will program because they love pinball". BS. As the world's leading authority in Hobbies Becoming Jobs, no matter how much you love something, if it consumes a disproportionate amount of your time, you're going to want cash for it to make it worth your while.
What probably happens with John, is he finds somebody willing to code "for the experience" (free) But when that person realizes the soul-sucking hell that coding really is, they ask for money, and that's when John balks. (see also: other Zidware jobs)
If he was just making ONE game (which should have been his goal originally) these one-time costs would be lower. Instead of finding coding/art for RAZA and AIW, he just needs it for MG.
RAZA/AIW buyers get MG instead of nothing.
Could that be an acceptable solution?

I had mentioned this idea to John a couple weeks ago and it sounds like he has/is at least considering this option. I like the idea as MG is closest to being done, put RAZA & AIW on the shelf for now and everyone gets MG for $10k then refund the original 17 owners so that they get there games for 10k as well.

#8257 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Not the worst idea. Seeing how incomplete Magic Girl is, RAZA would be a complete nightmare, and Alice.... well..... there's some cardboard sitting in the shop.
I personally would move my raza deposit to a MG if offered, just to get off this shit train.

How would that work? I am assuming you would have to work out refunding the original MG owners to the tune of $6k each because there is no way you are converting 200+ RAZA and AIW spots to $16k games those people didn't ask for. Where's the money for that? that's an additional $100k on top of the money needed to code the game, pay vendors he is delinquent on, and to cover the mfg costs for all these games. Even if the math works out, and somehow the first 5 years of john's playtime could be fit into the category of game profit, someone else would have to finance this, because I don't see you pulling it off with more patient financing from your customer's outstanding payments.

Still, it's the best idea I have heard yet. I think most RAZA and AIW buyers would take a MG instead of nothing. I'm sure John's plan would be to use this plan to vindicate himself, and to try to start again with RAZA and AIW, but unless someone else finances them, good luck with that.

#8258 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

If he was just making ONE game (which should have been his goal originally) these one-time costs would be lower. Instead of finding coding/art for RAZA and AIW, he just needs it for MG.
RAZA/AIW buyers get MG instead of nothing.
Could that be an acceptable solution?

I actually suggested that to him Ben on one of my phone calls with him as a possibility and he quickly shot that down as if MG was basically ready to go, he could get it out the door and then collect the rest of the RAZA payments for "final production" and the AIW folks would keep streaming in payments.

Remember, up until very recently, he's been asking for AIW payments while all of this other BS has been going on.

You are right on though, this would be an acceptable option to me right now and probably MANY others, I think its a great idea due to what you pointed out, the cost of the programming!

And yet he stuck a fork in Aaron's eye who was trying to help with no up front funding. Wtf!

#8259 4 years ago

What I would like to do, if he would let us, is get in there and get a complete picture of the FINANCIAL SITUATION as it stands right now.

Have a real "project manager" determine what its going to take to source the remaining parts to put the box together.

An actual budget of sorts, what a concept.

You could present people with some options.

1) Here is the cost to complete all three pins and SEGREGATE right now, the accounting for those three projects, allocate the fixed overhead on a pro rata basis, etc.

Then based on where it stands TODAY, figure out how much its going to cost to produce and program these pins and then the owners would have to collectively agree to an "assessment" to cover the shortfall for each project.

Who's in and who's out. Obviously not a perfect solution, there are none, but maybe its a smaller number than we all think.

This option feels like climbing Mt. Everest not just once but three times, back to back. Not good.

2) The better idea for me, like Ben said, roll everything into ONE project right now, MG, do a much bigger run to cover everybody on all the projects and factor in a lowered price and reimbursement for the MG guys that are already paid up down to the 10k price or whatever it is.

Depending on the situation, maybe it takes 12k to get an MG done at cost from here on out, who knows, can't get a look at the financials!

Even though John treats it that way, he doesn't get to spend like the federal government, the books have to balance and numbers matter!

It really does come down to 2 + 2 has equal 4. Let's figure out how to make the numbers work. Guy won't let anybody help him.

At the end of the day, because of John's stupidity, I think MG has the only chance of ever getting done and yet he's backed himself into a very tough spot.

He needs more $$$$ to build for the existing 25 guys, that's why he needs to raise to at least 50 and be able to collect 17k from those guys. Raise your hand if you are willing to ante up a dime to John right now?

Thus, the only possible outcome at this moment that could work is for everybody to roll into one pin, MG, and then just figure out the math and put somebody else in charge of production and programming.

How does John benefit? That's all he really cares about, collecting his paycheck and profits. He doesn't benefit other going from the Hall of Pinball Fame to the Hall of Shame with SkitB.

Interesting choices John, what are you gonna do. The longer you wait and extend the charade the tougher its going to be to fix this, if its fixable.

#8260 4 years ago

If JPop would consider dropping RAZA & AIW, and focus on MG and produce say 150-200...

I think most us us would agree to the switch. I would buy in (MG) at $10-$11k (I'm already in RAZA at $4,750)

#8261 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

What I would like to do, if he would let us, is get in there and get a complete picture of the FINANCIAL SITUATION as it stands right now.
Have a real "project manager" determine what its going to take to source the remaining parts to put the box together.
An actual budget of sorts, what a concept.
You could present people with some options.
1) Here is the cost to complete all three pins and SEGREGATE right now, the accounting for those three projects, allocate the fixed overhead on a pro rata basis, etc.
Then based on where it stands TODAY, figure out how much its going to cost to produce and program these pins and then the owners would have to collectively agree to an "assessment" to cover the shortfall for each project.
Who's in and who's out. Obviously not a perfect solution, there are none, but maybe its a smaller number than we all think.
This option feels like climbing Mt. Everest not just once but three times, back to back. Not good.
2) The better idea for me, like Ben said, roll everything into ONE project right now, MG, do a much bigger run to cover everybody on all the projects and factor in a lowered price and reimbursement for the MG guys that are already paid up down to the 10k price or whatever it is.
Depending on the situation, maybe it takes 12k to get an MG done at cost from here on out, who knows, can't get a look at the financials!
Even though John treats it that way, he doesn't get to spend like the federal government, the books have to balance and numbers matter!
It really does come down to 2 + 2 has equal 4. Let's figure out how to make the numbers work. Guy won't let anybody help him.
At the end of the day, because of John's stupidity, I think MG has the only chance of ever getting done and yet he's backed himself into a very tough spot.
He needs more $$$$ to build for the existing 25 guys, that's why he needs to raise to at least 50 and be able to collect 17k from those guys. Raise your hand if you are willing to ante up a dime to John right now?
Thus, the only possible outcome at this moment that could work is for everybody to roll into one pin, MG, and then just figure out the math and put somebody else in charge of production and programming.
How does John benefit? That's all he really cares about, collecting his paycheck and profits. He doesn't benefit other going from the Hall of Pinball Fame to the Hall of Shame with SkitB.
Interesting choices John, what are you gonna do. The longer you wait and extend the charade the tougher its going to be to fix this, if its fixable.

You have zero hope of working with him. In between 20 posts insulting him you post one wanting to help? And you even insult him after saying that above. You do not have near the right temperament to solve anything with John. Let it go.

#8262 4 years ago

Sounds like a reasonable proposal as long as early MG buyers get the financial incentive given above - reimbursement down to the 10k price -. I would be far less enthusiastic if priced higher. $10k is already pushing it and the "exclusive" factor is far weaker with 150+ units produced than with 25.

The difference in numbers between MG and RAZA pre orders makes this possible. Even better, this does not prevent Zidware from producing later RAZA once all MG orders are filled. And make sure John understands this as it will be easier for him to postpone RAZA than to cancel it completely.

Who knows? With videos of a flipping game and an agreement with a manufacturer you might actually see new potential customers like me interested... once the first pins ship. Magic Girl's artwork is absolutely stunning and I would love to see this project successful.

#8263 4 years ago
Quoted from Kerry_Richard:

If JPop would consider dropping RAZA & AIW, and focus on MG and produce say 150-200...
I think most us us would agree to the switch. I would buy in (MG) at $10-$11k (I'm already in RAZA at $4,750)

I'd maybe buy a MG in that case if they were closer to $11-12k and were actually being built and played well.

Larger run is actually better more chance for mods and better code, better aftermarket support.

#8264 4 years ago

I hate to agree with Chessiv but I do. I don't think John takes criticism well, he probably thinks Ice is a 'bad man'.

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#8265 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

I hate to agree with Chessiv but I do. I don't think John takes criticism well, he probably thinks Ice is a 'bad man'.

twilight-zone-billy-mumy-go.jpg

Ice is a bad man, the worst.

10
#8266 4 years ago

John hasn't shown the ability to work with anyone. We're probably deluding ourselves with these "what ifs". Likely this will continue to play out the way it has been until a real legal action is taken or forced bankruptcy.

I suspect the games have too much work to go for someone else to want to pay to see them completed (investors) so likely a bankruptcy and whatever is in the shop gets sold out as memorabilia. The incomplete prototypes will probably disappear into the night before this all happens.

#8267 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

John hasn't shown the ability to work with anyone. We're probably deluding ourselves with these "what ifs". Likely this will continue to play out the way it has been until a real legal action is taken or forced bankruptcy.
I suspect the games have too much work to go for someone else to want to pay to see them completed (investors) so likely a bankruptcy and whatever is in the shop gets sold out as memorabilia. The incomplete prototypes will probably disappear into the night before this all happens.

+1. Unless proven otherwise, this recent planning of options (which I consider as top notch btw) is akin to spending time arranging deck furniture on the Titanic right before ... oh you know what happens.

#8268 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

You have zero hope of working with him. In between 20 posts insulting him you post one wanting to help? And you even insult him after saying that above. You do not have near the right temperament to solve anything with John. Let it go.

Iceman isn't the problem here. The only people that John apparently CAN work with regarding resolution of these issues are sycophants. Unfortunately, sycophants don't tell him what he actually NEEDS to hear, so he continues to spin his wheels, and his projects remain stuck in development hell.

#8269 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Iceman isn't the problem here. The only people that John apparently CAN work with regarding resolution of these issues are sycophants. Unfortunately, sycophants don't tell him what he actually NEEDS to hear, so he continues to spin his wheels, and his projects remain stuck in development hell.

He's not the problem but he's also not the solution.

#8270 4 years ago

I'm just confused with how the $15k-$17k price tag is being justified? I already see what you get with a new JJP Ruby Red WOZ (or Hobbit LE / Smaug SE) for $9k, a Stern LE at nearly $8k, and a MMR LE at $8k. Where in Magic Girl and RAZA is the other $5k-$8K in parts and features?

#8271 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

He's not the problem but he's also not the solution.

I respectfully disagree. Ice has some great ideas and is the type of person that gets things done. He is also somewhat of a bull in a china shop, what needs to happen is someone like Ice needs to work with one of the people in John's inner inner circle but not with John directly.

Heck, it wasn't that long ago Ice was even suggesting maybe he would finance the build out of the prototypes...how many people would even consider that?

#8272 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I'm just confused with how the $15k-$17k price tag is being justified? I already see what you get with a new JJP Ruby Red WOZ for $9k, a Stern LE at nearly $8k, and a MMR LE at $8k. Where in Magic Girl and RAZA is the other $5k-$8K in parts and features?

You're paying for rarity...for "limited print art". It's not about the BOM. With LEs, it's never about the BOM.

#8273 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I'm just confused with how the $15k-$17k price tag is being justified? I already see what you get with a new JJP Ruby Red WOZ for $9k, a Stern LE at nearly $8k, and a MMR LE at $8k. Where in Magic Girl and RAZA is the other $5k-$8K in parts and features?

Originally it was exclusivity...even more exclusivity than BBB.

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#8275 4 years ago

Everybody's chasing the next Big Bang Bar remake. They can say pinball "isn't an investment" til the cows come home, but that possible reward is why they "stick around" with projects well past the point of no return disaster (ahem PREDATOR)

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#8276 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

You do not have near the right temperament to solve anything with John. Let it go.

nobody has the right temperament to work with john apparently...

#8277 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I'm just confused with how the $15k-$17k price tag is being justified? I already see what you get with a new JJP Ruby Red WOZ (or Hobbit LE / Smaug SE) for $9k, a Stern LE at nearly $8k, and a MMR LE at $8k. Where in Magic Girl and RAZA is the other $5k-$8K in parts and features?

Was because these were super limited games. Tron LE is not worth $9k except there was only 400 made

People thought if only 26 MG were made than likely in time it might become $20k game like BBB.

There are comic books selling for $2M but cost less than 5c to print.

#8278 4 years ago

On a side note, a week ago, this thread was 600+ posts behind the Predator update thread. Now? Less than 100...

#8279 4 years ago

This all sounds reasonable were John not still firmly in control. The problem with any solution is getting the leopard to change his spots. This project has little or no chance until John loses control via the bankruptcy court. The upside is that this may not be far off.

#8280 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Everybody's chasing the next Big Bang Bar remake.

BBB was in my head when i pre-ordered, but not as a flipper, but knowing I'd never have a chance to own the game otherwise at secondary market prices.

I also wanted a "next gen" pinball machine. Unfortunately these games if released in 2016 or later won't be that revolutionary. They would have been show stoppers when released on time in 2013, but I suspect if Magic Girl shows up at expo this year, it will be getting a lot of "mehs" compared to some of the big titles showing up there.

#8281 4 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

On a side note, a week ago, this thread was 600+ posts behind the Predator update thread. Now? Less than 100...

It will pass Predator soon. Monday or Tuesday at the latest.

13
#8282 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

You have zero hope of working with him. In between 20 posts insulting him you post one wanting to help? And you even insult him after saying that above. You do not have near the right temperament to solve anything with John. Let it go.

I want my pinball machine, I'm NOT letting it go. John needs someone to kick him in the ass not kiss his ass. Sorry

#8283 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I respectfully disagree. Ice has some great ideas and is the type of person that gets things done. He is also somewhat of a bull in a china shop, what needs to happen is someone like Ice needs to work with one of the people in John's inner inner circle but not with John directly.
Heck, it wasn't that long ago Ice was even suggesting maybe he would finance the build out of the prototypes...how many people would even consider that?

I've tried to work with StevenP as much as I can and yet even the "inner circle" guy can't get through to him.

The reason John is in the position he is in right now is largely because nobody has been up his ass a few years ago when this thing started going off the rails!

You'd be surprised at how gentle and patient I can be Tiger. Yes I am passionate and can thrash around like a bull in a china shop when need be but I'm really just a laid back nice guy.

It's frustrating when you are close to the goal line and won't hand the ball off to Lynch for the Super Bowl win. Beast mode is called for right now

#8284 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

You're paying for rarity...for "limited print art". It's not about the BOM. With LEs, it's never about the BOM.

I've always said from day one Greg, no matter what else happens with the pin itself at least you have a piece of limited artwork.

That hasn't worked out either has it! Oh well. We are getting down to the lick log here one way or the other.

Time to shoot this horse and put it out of its misery or go into Beast mode

#8285 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I want my pinball machine, I'm NOT letting it go. John needs someone to kick him in the ass not kiss his ass. Sorry

I get your passion for wanting your game but is it really worth the continued years of frustration at this point? All of the options you've presented so far are seriously flawed. John is not providing accounting information because it's clearly very bad. Have I missed someone actually getting a refund that has been requesting one repeatedly? Major red flag. I think pre-order folks are wasting their own time (and sanity) at this point if they're not pursuing legal avenues for recovering their money. Plain and simple. Otherwise, you'll still be having this exact same conversation a year from now.

#8286 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I'm just confused with how the $15k-$17k price tag is being justified? I already see what you get with a new JJP Ruby Red WOZ (or Hobbit LE / Smaug SE) for $9k, a Stern LE at nearly $8k, and a MMR LE at $8k. Where in Magic Girl and RAZA is the other $5k-$8K in parts and features?

Maybe a record number of code updates?

I kidd, I kidd.....

#8287 4 years ago

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#8288 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I respectfully disagree. Ice has some great ideas and is the type of person that gets things done. He is also somewhat of a bull in a china shop, what needs to happen is someone like Ice needs to work with one of the people in John's inner inner circle but not with John directly.
Heck, it wasn't that long ago Ice was even suggesting maybe he would finance the build out of the prototypes...how many people would even consider that?

I agree kissing John's ass won't accomplish anything. Likewise how is openly insulting him constantly going to accomplish one thing? How is that positive at all? Realistic, tough conversations are certainly appropriate. Constant insults and bravado will get no one anywhere. Makes for good drama but that's about it.

#8289 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I've tried to work with StevenP as much as I can and yet even the "inner circle" guy can't get through to him.
The reason John is in the position he is in right now is largely because nobody has been up his ass a few years ago when this thing started going off the rails!
You'd be surprised at how gentle and patient I can be Tiger. Yes I am passionate and can thrash around like a bull in a china shop when need be but I'm really just a laid back nice guy.
It's frustrating when you are close to the goal line and won't hand the ball off to Lynch for the Super Bowl win. Beast mode is called for right now

I'm obviously not a psychologist or anything but this is starting to seem more and more like mental illness. That would explain a lot. Like the disconnect from reality we've all noticed recently.

#8290 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I'm obviously not a psychologist or anything but this is starting to seem more and more like mental illness. That would explain a lot. Like the disconnect from reality we've all noticed recently.

You have a guy that has Hall of Fame pinball status that is staring right into the abyss and his life's work and reputation is going up in flames as we speak

And he's the one pouring the lighter fluid on the fire

It's frustrating only because it can be fixed. Most anything can if you are open to help.

Unfortunately it looks like bankruptcy and what comes out of that is the next step

One way or the other, at least we are at the end.

I don't care who fixes it, many have tried and all have failed, including myself but I won't give up trying to figure out options until it's totally dead and the carcass stinks to high heaven

We are all in this together as Pinheads, John will never be able to show his face again around pinball

#8291 4 years ago

Must have taken a loan out to build the tooling for the ramps lol

#8292 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Must have taken a loan out to build the tooling for the ramps

vacuum forming is SO cheap, especially low quantity as he's doing. If you have a 3d model you can print a positive, send it to any of the local chicagoland vacuum forming vendors, and get ramps for just a few bucks a piece.

#8293 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

but I won't give up trying to figure out options until it's totally dead and the carcass stinks to high heaven

Might want to remove that nose plug.

#8294 4 years ago

So... now we're waiting till next month for the ramps to show up. Not sure what will change then, other than the paper ramps will be replaced. The bigger issues all still need to be addressed. And John is still ignoring his customers.

#8295 4 years ago

Don't worry, he'll show all of you in 10 years when he reveals the finished game at Expo for 5 minutes - no photos allowed.

#8296 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

So... now we're waiting till next month for the ramps to show up. Not sure what will change then, other than the paper ramps will be replaced. The bigger issues all still need to be addressed. And John is still ignoring his customers.

How old is John? Is his expected life span going to extend beyond Magic Girl? Unless he's got celestial connections beyond a couple of doobies, I'm not sure I can ever expect to see ramps on RAZA, much less get my hands on the game.

#8297 4 years ago

Sorry to chime in and not be an owner (several times close and spoken with him personally) BUT I just don't see this being resolved until he actually is threatened with jail time or being sued for his personal assets... THEN.. he would turn over whatever worth/less assets he has for Stern to actually produce.. JPOP obviously just can't ever get his sh(# together to even come close to producing an actual game...

Artwork on MG does look great...as a concept... have Stern like a vulture seize the assets... push JPOP aside and finish the game with an experienced production/code team..I would be a buyer then..

#8298 4 years ago
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:

Sorry to chime in and not be an owner (several times close and spoken with him personally) BUT I just don't see this being resolved until he actually is threatened with jail time or being sued for his personal assets... THEN.. he would turn over whatever worth/less assets he has for Stern to actually produce.. JPOP obviously just can't ever get his sh(# together to even come close to producing an actual game...
Artwork on MG does look great...as a concept... have Stern like a vulture seize the assets... push JPOP aside and finish the game with an experienced production/code team..I would be a buyer then..

He already approached Stern and they said "go away".

#8299 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It's frustrating only because it can be fixed. Most anything can if you are open to help.

Because John won't show anyone what the financial situation is, I think the only way you can say for certain that it can be fixed is if you assume the worst case scenario that all the money he has taken so far is gone, and from there you can still see a viable way to build the games. Any path that requires some of the money already collected will fail because he won't even tell you how much you have to work with, much less give any of it up if there is any left.

My guess is that, based on various reports from people here abut how much they are paid up on RAZA, at best you have about ~$4-5k per person left, so about $500k. Let's be generous and say all the AIW spots still owe The full $10k each, so $1m. $1.5m seems like a lot, but that's $6k per game at 250 games (and that is with generous assumptions about outstanding payments owed). It's hard to make regular games in well run pinball companies for 6k these days, much more so for complicated games with all this baggage and so many completely custom parts.

Going with the best idea on the table, converting everyone to MG, you first have to spend ~$100-$150k refunding $16k buyers back to the $10k price point, another ~$100k for a programmer, $??? For an animator for the screen graphics (this is my field, but I don't know the specs of what is needed so I can't price it), $??? for making JPOP'd Vendors whole, $??? For finishing the preproduction prototype to manufacturing specs, $??? For pre-manufacturing set-up and process training for your manufacturing partner, $??? For the BOM for ~225 games, $??? For your project manager, $??? For contingency and overages, and $??? For the mfg fees from your manufacturing partner.

I am assuming the fast guys filled in a lot of those question marks when they were trying to put together a plan, but I fail to see how any plan could work with the numbers we do know to even build out one machine, much less all three machines. Reasonable assumptions about all those numbers start to exceed $6k per machine real fast. If all the plans at this point worked on paper because they assumed John had x amount of money left, and would willingly hand it over, then I don't think those were very realistic. Unless I missed something and someone somewhere actually got some verification about how much money was left, and any real cooperation from John.

#8300 4 years ago

Yeah, I think that's where we're at... nothing makes sense on paper as a business.

I think Ben guessed the BOM at $6k/game, which is probably a fair guess, and may very well be low. Then you look at the work that is still left to do.

I don't invest in businesses without business plans. I don't know how anyone would invest in John if he can't provide numbers and a road map to success.

My first rule for business investment is "Is there a strong demand for this product or service?" and unfortunately for just about everything pinball related, that answer is "no", which has stopped me from getting involved in any pinball business. Let alone something set up as a zidware with extremely high costs and extremely limited revenues and extreme risk for my money.

Any investor will judge things the exact same way. The only "easy" money was by crowd funding and getting people to send money in who don't have the same criteria and had a desire to see the final product. There was no need for a regular investor, he had sidestepped that. Raising $1M is a big deal.

John unfortunately screwed that all up.

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