(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#7951 4 years ago

I was wondering what you guys think about the hurdles on the software side for John.

Lyman and Keith have been doing rules for decades. Ben did one game, but Ben did the boards and all the overhead system code too - and Ben's dots, audio/video controls, and rules turned out pretty good IMO. Plus Heck did the boardset, and all that goes with them: OS and I/O and power control.

KEF (+ later on Ted Estes) and it took 3 years+ of ground-up on WoZ OS, video control and rules. Stern has just released a new operating system platform - which takes years to create and test.

Here's the thing -- Zidware/ Jpop needs everything - op system, I/O, rules, sol drivers board control logic, switch matrix logic, everything... any prototyping on mechs or code left with Ben, right?

Lets say Jpop finds (and can afford) a KEF or a LFS for the rules ... He still needs an operating systems guy to code for the boardset - Does Jpop even have a board set or prototype boards? - plus if you had all the above, the todo list still has storyboard and dots and rules. Design and story, requires close collaboration with the game designer and software (see Ritchie/Lyman for ACDC and Spiderman for example, or Borg & crew on TWD or Iron Man or Tron).

Code is a key critical-path "thing" to get a game done .... I don't think JPop is even at week 1 of a 3 year time horizon for just the code alone.

Spooky, JJP and Stern have proven they can. Dutch Pinball proved to me they can do it, based on the Bride 2.0 (its amazing work all around). Heighway's game looks and plays well - and Andrew will do fine on the "making" part. Common to all the above success projects - a great team, not one or two guys, but usually at least 5 or 10 or dozens.

I'd like to hear discussion about the platform/coding issue facing Zidware, opinions on the feasibility, has anyone seen any dots, code, boards or operating system. And does JPop have anyone left on his team?

#7952 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

I think it comes down to software on his games. I really enjoy wcs. Cv is not as fun but still decent. Tom leaves me completely flat. Love the art. Love the music. Love the theme. The software lets me down. Totan falls short in lots of depts for me. Opinions are like credit cards...

I've never been able to figure out why anyone thinks TOM's software is bad. There are tons of modes, multiballs, hurry ups, gimmicks - there are always cool things going on and it's butter smooth to shoot. I can't think of one thing that puts it below other games of its era. I've heard "no wizard mode" and "tournament exploits". Is that it? What else am I missing? I just have fun every time I play it.

#7953 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I've never been able to figure out why anyone thinks TOM's software is bad. There are tons of modes, multiballs, hurry ups, gimmicks - there are always cool things going on and it's butter smooth to shoot. I can't think of one thing that puts it below other games of its era. I've heard "no wizard mode" and "tournament exploits". Is that it? What else am I missing? I just have fun every time I play it.

The rules in TOM are solid. It's a great game IMO. People are sheeple in this case I think. It's not THAT easy either...I've heard that it's "too easy". Open the outlanes and it's not easy anymore. And who cares about tournament exploits? I mainly play to advance through the game personally. Score comes second.

#7954 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

Ben is extremely talented in all sorts of ways but he's no Lyman or Keith. Those guys are in a league of their own. And they are very different in how they attack rules.

I write video games for a living so my style is different from both Keith and Lyman. I called jPop, no answer. Left a message, no callback. I have more important things to do then chase him down. So I stopped trying. Anyone who doesn't think I could bring one of those pins to life should come over play Haunted Cruise sometime. I know my shit, I play pinball competitively and know what those type of people expect, I have casuals play my games and know what they expect. I'm not saying I'm of the pinball-programmer caliber of Lyman or Keith, but frankly I'm not far off.

It sucks, I want these games to be completed as much as anyone else. If Magic Girl shipped and was of quality I would have been in for Alice.

#7955 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

I was wondering what you guys think about the hurdles on the software side for John.
Lyman and Keith have been doing rules for decades. Ben did one game, but Ben did the boards and all the overhead system code too - and Ben's dots, audio/video controls, and rules turned out pretty good IMO. Plus Heck did the boardset, and all that goes with them: OS and I/O and power control.
KEF (+ later on Ted Estes) and it took 3 years+ of ground-up on WoZ OS, video control and rules. Stern has just released a new operating system platform - which takes years to create and test.
Here's the thing -- Zidware/ Jpop needs everything - op system, I/O, rules, sol drivers board control logic, switch matrix logic, everything... any prototyping on mechs or code left with Ben, right?
Lets say Jpop finds (and can afford) a KEF or a LFS for the rules ... He still needs an operating systems guy to code for the boardset - Does Jpop even have a board set or prototype boards? - plus if you had all the above, the todo list still has storyboard and dots and rules. Design and story, requires close collaboration with the game designer and software (see Ritchie/Lyman for ACDC and Spiderman for example, or Borg & crew on TWD or Iron Man or Tron).
Code is a key critical-path "thing" to get a game done .... I don't think JPop is even at week 1 of a 3 year time horizon for just the code alone.
Spooky, JJP and Stern have proven they can. Dutch Pinball proved to me they can do it, based on the Bride 2.0 (its amazing work all around). Heighway's game looks and plays well - and Andrew will do fine on the "making" part. Common to all the above success projects - a great team, not one or two guys, but usually at least 5 or 10 or dozens.
I'd like to hear discussion about the platform/coding issue facing Zidware, opinions on the feasibility, has anyone seen any dots, code, boards or operating system. And does JPop have anyone left on his team?

If jpop had use of Jjp, spooky, or stern boards the operating system would be done just game code needed

#7956 4 years ago

From what I understand, the boards do have an OS, the back end systems are written. Just that "little" matter of game code and rules.

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#7957 4 years ago

All these people volunteering to dive in and "save" JPOP remind me of these women who get engaged to a guy who's been divorced 4 times and think "I'll be the one to fix him!"

#7958 4 years ago

I think the desire to save him is fueled that we do see hints of greatness with these games. Same reason all of us sent him money and stayed in as long as we did. The potential is there for something awesome. That is still what is keeping this alive today.

Unfortunately we keep hitting the same wall which is jpop himself.

#7959 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

All these people volunteering to dive in and "save" JPOP remind me of these women who get engaged to a guy who's been divorced 4 times and think "I'll be the one to fix him!"

With everyone at wedding #5 taking over/under bets on how long this one will last.

#7960 4 years ago

I'm almost thinking John is way farther along than anyone guesses and he's keeping his cards close to the vest and some day I'll open this thread and see the games are completely done and ready to ship.

image.jpg

#7961 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I've never been able to figure out why anyone thinks TOM's software is bad. There are tons of modes, multiballs, hurry ups, gimmicks - there are always cool things going on and it's butter smooth to shoot. I can't think of one thing that puts it below other games of its era. I've heard "no wizard mode" and "tournament exploits". Is that it? What else am I missing? I just have fun every time I play it.

It's really hard to quantify. But when everything else in the game is good it must be the software. I want to love the game.

#7962 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

All these people volunteering to dive in and "save" JPOP remind me of these women who get engaged to a guy who's been divorced 4 times and think "I'll be the one to fix him!"

Or people truly care about pinball and their fellow hobbyists, hope to somehow get these amazing designs built and programmed by spending their own personal time, money and energy to help this along and just take that chance he will awaken to reality at some point. To those who have tried thank- you. Lets hope at some point he's too old to even consider to move on to wife 6.

#7963 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I'm almost thinking John is way farther along than anyone guesses and he's keeping his cards close to the vest

Whoever comes in to finish the board set and code will want to start over. Those guys don't like "finishing" someone else's work, they will start from scratch most likely. I wonder if the original guy, whoever that was, could be re-hired?

#7964 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

It's really hard to quantify. But when everything else in the game is good it must be the software. I want to love the game.

My take is that the first two mulitiballs are too easy to get, and the third is too tough. After you've used your two multiballs, you end up shooting the left orbit over and over again. The modes aren't worth completing from a points and risk standpoint.

#7965 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Whoever comes in to finish the board set and code will want to start over. Those guys don't like "finishing" someone else's work, they will start from scratch most likely. I wonder if the original guy, whoever that was, could be re-hired?

Of course they would want to start from scratch, especially when it comes to supporting the work. If you bring in someone to finish some existing work, you will get just that. 6 months down the line when a bug is discovered or an issue arises, just how interested would they be to troubleshoot it? Nobody is going to want to pay someone to debug their game and issue a fix. It is assumed that would be taken care of like Stern, JJP and Spooky have done.

Support is a major concern for games like these. Any strategy for getting these games out the door has got to include a plan for supporting them for at least some reasonable period of time.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#7966 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I think the desire to save him is fueled that we do see hints of greatness with these games.

The thing is, what are the hints? Zombie Yeti artwork, and ... how many people have actually seen the game flip? Apparently a few Pinsiders, but they don't feel like sharing any impressions, let alone this mythical video.

Seriously, what do we have besides art? I'll help a group commission some original ZY prints if that's all you're looking for.

#7967 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I'm almost thinking John is way farther along than anyone guesses and he's keeping his cards close to the vest and some day I'll open this thread and see the games are completely done and ready to ship.

I also think that's his strategy, and it wouldn't surprise me to see him present a single "completed" MG game.

The game will probably have a fair degree of mechanical wow-factor, John will stand on a rug with a banner behind him reading "Mission Accomplished", and he will hope that it'll be enough to suck a bunch of people/money down the next rabbit hole.

If the community falls for that, the next thing you'll probably see would be a single "completed" RAZA in about 5 years. Making one is fun. Dozens? Not so much.

#7968 4 years ago

What's stopping people from posting video or pictures at this point? Just curious

#7969 4 years ago
Quoted from examiner:

I also think that's his strategy, and it wouldn't surprise me to see him present a single "completed" MG game.
The game will probably have a fair degree of mechanical wow-factor, John will stand on a rug with a banner behind him reading "Mission Accomplished", and he will hope that it'll be enough to suck a bunch of people/money down the next rabbit hole.
If the community falls for that, the next thing you'll probably see would be a single "completed" RAZA in about 5 years. Making one is fun. Dozens? Not so much.

He can't afford the tooling for ramps lol

#7970 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I'm almost thinking John is way farther along than anyone guesses and he's keeping his cards close to the vest and some day I'll open this thread and see the games are completely done and ready to ship.

Nope he's gone! Taken the money and ran. He's hiding from a lot of people. He's not responding to legal notices too! It's not good.

#7971 4 years ago

This idea that John is secretly sitting on a finished games and just not showing them makes zero sense. He's desperate, there's nothing to be gained by trying to spring a surprise on people.

Quoted from lllvjr:

What's stopping people from posting video or pictures at this point? Just curious

Absolutely nothing.

#7972 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

He can't afford the tooling for ramps lol

We even offered to take care of his vacuum form ramp needs. Dammit. Why do I keep reading this thread? It's so frustrating to imagine how different this whole JPOP situation would be if he had sent us a playfield months ago. Sure, there would still be work to do but there would have been some significant progress on MG while he worked on RAZA.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

13
#7973 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

We even offered to take care of his vacuum form ramp needs. Dammit. Why do I keep reading this thread? It's so frustrating to imagine how different this whole JPOP situation would be if he had sent us a playfield months ago. Sure, there would still be work to do but there would have been some significant progress on MG while he worked on RAZA.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Don't look at it as a missed opportunity. You dodged a bullet, plain and simple.

I wouldn't wish the "privilege" of trying to save JPop on my worst enemy.

#7974 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

What's stopping people from posting video or pictures at this point? Just curious

Maybe it's because there are no pictures or videos. Can't post what you don't have.

#7975 4 years ago

Whoever played the mythical flipping MG can't have been too impressed by it. I'm going on the pics or it didn't happen assumption on pdxmonkey's claims.

#7976 4 years ago

I know what we have here, we have a proven designer that has no clue how to run business efficiently or effectively. His abilities to pinball design go far beyond just the art work, in fact he doesn't even draw it, however he knows what he wants and when coupled with his layouts they can and have been called masterpieces to pinball design. I think this is what people like Frolic mean when they say it is "fueled by hints of greatness" .... coupled with what he has done in the past. I have no doubt these games would be amazing if they were to be completed and coupled with the right programmers. There is far more here than just art work from what I've seen and I've seen probably less than most as I never did got access to the private sites even though I paid in my hard earned money

#7977 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Don't look at it as a missed opportunity. You dodged a bullet, plain and simple.
I wouldn't wish the "privilege" of trying to save JPop on my worst enemy.

From a spectators perspective, I agree. Do you want to be associated in any way with someone, who seems hell bent on self destruction. He strikes me as an individual that needs to be knocked out to save him from drowning, otherwise he will take out the lifeguard because of his thrashing about. Only get into the water, if you are willing and able to knock him out. You could otherwise end up getting drowned. IMHO

-1
#7978 4 years ago

When is the last time anyone has seriously spoken to John, or got an email response? If I was a buyer , and he didn't respond to me within even a day, you know what I would do (since John seems to be a one man show at Zidware)? I would send a followup email and say "Oh man, something must be wrong since I didn't get a response. I bet someone followed you to work and knocked you over the head and tied you up in the back office. I'm really worried something happened to your well being, or worst yet someone stole all the magic girl prototypes you worked so hard on. If I don't get a response within the next hour, I'm going to assume the worse and call 911 to send for help! Hope all is well <:-0"

I bet you get a response...

#7979 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

If I don't get a response within the next hour, I'm going to assume the worse and call 911 to send for help! ... I bet you get a response...

And what do you do when he calls your bluff and doesn't respond? Call 911?

#7980 4 years ago

If you get an offer to go and flip one of John's pins, DON'T DO IT! Your friends will never hear from you again. Just like those movies where people go into the haunted house and vanish. Beware!

#7981 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

We even offered to take care of his vacuum form ramp needs. Dammit. Why do I keep reading this thread? It's so frustrating to imagine how different this whole JPOP situation would be if he had sent us a playfield months ago. Sure, there would still be work to do but there would have been some significant progress on MG while he worked on RAZA.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Aaron, were you planning to do all this work pro bono (i.e., for the "good of the pinball hobby"), or were you actually expecting to get paid? If the latter, what were your payment terms? Cash In Advance (CIA), Cash On Delivery (COD), Net 30, Net 60, Net 90, Net 120, Net 180, Net 360, Whenever-You-Get-Around-To-It (WYGATI)?

If you expected to get paid for work under an agreement, but Zidware was arguably insolvent, then Zidware likely would not have been able to perform under the terms of your proposed agreement.

I'm not excusing John's past business decisions. Unfortunately, many of his options in recent months have been severely limited by his apparent lack of funds, and your proposed agreement may have been one of them.

#7982 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

And what do you do when he calls your bluff and doesn't respond? Call 911?

And ask for a wellness check. I don't see why not.

#7983 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

All these people volunteering to dive in and "save" JPOP remind me of these women who get engaged to a guy who's been divorced 4 times and think "I'll be the one to fix him!"

Sending beer now!

#7984 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Aaron, were you planning to do all this work pro bono (i.e., for the "good of the pinball hobby"), or were you actually expecting to get paid? If the latter, what were your payment terms? Cash In Advance (CIA), Cash On Delivery (COD), Net 30, Net 60, Net 90, Net 120, Net 180, Net 360, Whenever-You-Get-Around-To-It (WYGATI)?
If you expected to get paid for work under an agreement, but Zidware was arguably insolvent, then Zidware likely would not have been able to perform under the terms of your proposed agreement.
I'm not excusing John's past business decisions. Unfortunately, many of his options in recent months have been severely limited by his apparent lack of funds, and your proposed agreement may have been one of them.

We felt that we could decent return on the time/effort it would take getting MG in order. Treat it as a way to show off the capabilities of the hardware. Donating our engineering time on MG. For hardware, I would have been willing to work a volume deal across all three titles over a period of time. At the low numbers of each game on their own, there wasn't room for a volume deal one title at a time.

For RAZA and AIW, John could hire us to do work needed or complete the projects internally building upon the work done with MG. Using the same hardware foundation title to title would have made that much more efficient. We could help with the unique toys/features per title, if needed.

So it was a bit of both. Some for the good of pinball, helping a great designer get games out. Some for the opportunity to get new hardware and a new software framework into some high profile titles. Plenty of room for some win-win.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#7985 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

e felt that we could decent return on the time/effort it would take getting MG in order. Treat it as a way to show off the capabilities of the hardware. Donating our engineering time on MG. For hardware, I would have been willing to work a volume deal across all three titles over a period of time

Ok, so best case he sends you the game. You get a program going. Then what..hope this makes people order game number 4 to create funds to then build game 1 for all the buyers that already paid?
In your scenario we get a working prototype. Step 1.

#7986 4 years ago

I was probably one of or perhaps The Last person to jump on this "Jpop train of pain" got in about 2 & 1/2 week before expo 2014 (AIW) had a chance to cancel my check to him after the fallout from expo as he had not cashed it yet , I let my desire for the game get in the way of my common sense & didn't do it in time , cant hardly believe he has let this happen to his reputation in the pinball world / people in other threads , people with no stake in these games are now referencing Jpop & SkitB in the same context IE "Don't put me in the same category as Jpop & Skit B" (paraphrasing) I really do feel like I was played by this guy (who I admired at the time) & made one of the last payments to his Ponzi like scheme of things ....... I really , really do want to stay positive but that's just the feeling he has left me with

#7987 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

All these people volunteering to dive in and "save" JPOP remind me of these women who get engaged to a guy who's been divorced 4 times and think "I'll be the one to fix him!"

At this point, beyond repair?

#7988 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Ok, so best case he sends you the game. You get a program going. Then what..hope this makes people order game number 4 to create funds to then build game 1 for all the buyers that already paid?
In your scenario we get a working prototype. Step 1.

But an important step. Remember too, this was proposed last fall when it was still "help a guy get his games to out the door" and not the "save the situation" state it is now.

It was assumed back then that the hold up was getting the game "finished." If the game was finished, then it could be produced. We never had any idea of the financial end of things until the news started coming out here.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#7989 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

If the game was finished, then it could be produced.

Not trying to give you a hard time as much as point out that yes you could have and I am sure would have been the best fix for the programming. But there is so much to be done after that.
I played Full Throttle at Expo and its still not made. I played Predator (Ditto), I played Wooly, I played the Hobbit, TBL and again...
If I now know one proven fact it is making a working prototype is step one at best. It certainly does not lead to the production of games right away.

#7990 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

At this point, beyond repair?

Only hope would be if someone else got control of the project. If the art/layout/toys/etc were designed it could be saved. JPOP's games aren't known for strong code so it could go well with someone else being in charge of that.

#7991 4 years ago

I'm not on his blogs or FB but has anything come out from John that things are at a standstill?

Has he ever said what happened to his promised reveals? Surely he does not think the Adobe video as an on the rug reveal?

#7992 4 years ago

John ain't talking.

I just saw that Cointaker posted to the raza blog. Out of respect to him I won't repost here, but the post was not good, especially for someone who should be "inside" and is responsible for 2 dozen machines. He obviously was venting like all of us because we don't have much else.

#7993 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

John ain't talking.
I just saw that Cointaker posted to the raza blog. Out of respect to him I won't repost here, but the post was not good, especially for someone who should be "inside" and is responsible for 2 dozen machines. He obviously was venting like all of us because we don't have much else.

Cointaker is probably in position to lose the most of anybody in the mess.

#7994 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

We felt that we could decent return on the time/effort it would take getting MG in order. Treat it as a way to show off the capabilities of the hardware. Donating our engineering time on MG. For hardware, I would have been willing to work a volume deal across all three titles over a period of time. At the low numbers of each game on their own, there wasn't room for a volume deal one title at a time.
For RAZA and AIW, John could hire us to do work needed or complete the projects internally building upon the work done with MG. Using the same hardware foundation title to title would have made that much more efficient. We could help with the unique toys/features per title, if needed.
So it was a bit of both. Some for the good of pinball, helping a great designer get games out. Some for the opportunity to get new hardware and a new software framework into some high profile titles.

OK, so you were expecting to get paid eventually.

Quoted from fastpinball:

But an important step. Remember too, this was proposed last fall when it was still "help a guy get his games to out the door" and not the "save the situation" state it is now.
It was assumed back then that the hold up was getting the game "finished." If the game was finished, then it could be produced. We never had any idea of the financial end of things until the news started coming out here.

I was referring to just a couple of months ago, when you were clamoring to get your hands on a playfield.

You made the following posts on or after March 9, 2015...

Quoted from fastpinball:

June is coming up quick. I am sure we could have significant amount of progress by then, if the playfield showed up soon. I threw out the June timeframe because it is when we have our NW Pinball Show and it would be fun to have a meet-up to show off the progress to owners who may be in town. Based on the state of the progress John could even offer a public preview. I think that would be a fantastic challenge!

Quoted from fastpinball:

It would be an awesome challenge. With John's permission we could live blog the progress or something. Have some fun with it. But we seriously do love a challenge. Plus John has done the hard part: designing the game. For us it would just be following through on bringing his vision to life.
But we will see what shapes up. If John goes a different direction then we will focus on another playfield to show off the hardware/software in action for June.

Quoted from fastpinball:

While you can program a game without a physical machine, configuring and optimizing all the hardware controlling it is best done with the game itself. We would do a full hardware workup, as well as dial-in any unfinished features before writing game code. Then we can be reasonably sure that those writing code can be setup for success. I don't know the exact state of the game and I would have to assume that if the hardware is not settled, then there is some work to be done to get it all ready to go.
The ideal situation would be to get a playfield to work on and get a good run down on the way it is intended to operate. This can be done with the playfield in our workshop and John on video chat. Then after a week or two, John comes out for a few days to see it up and running. In person we can focus on dialing in the hardware performance to his specifications (flipper strength, magnet timing, etc) and get into his head a bit. This will help us move quickly to programming the game while continuing to refine the game build.
I think this would be a great experience for John. In the couple weeks between sending MG out and coming out to work with us, he can focus on RAZA without anyone concerned about his lack of attention to MG.

Quoted from fastpinball:

I feel confident that if we are given the opportunity to work with a playfield, we can bring it to life.

So again, in light of your posts today, what were your proposed payment terms just a couple of months ago?

Surely a successful entrepreneur with decades of prior business experience doesn't simply commit to work under a verbal agreement. It is reasonable to assume that you had some type of simple written agreement drawn up, even if it was just standard paperwork similar to what you use with all of your other clients, and presumably that paperwork contained some general reference to commercial terms for payment?

Zidware, Inc. was arguably insolvent many months ago, and probably could not perform under the terms of your proposed agreement, so unless you were going to be paid Cash In Advance, there appears to be little benefit in postulating that if John had only sent you a playfield a few months ago, everything would somehow be magically different today. FAST Pinball would have simply joined the long line of unsecured creditors already owed money by Zidware.

#7995 4 years ago

The reason the people who have been to the shop won't talk is because if they did, Popaduik would cut them off completely.

I can see the appeal of being part of the VIP Club with insider info. I get it. But it's a bit disingenuous at this point to still keep silent when clearly nothing is ever going to actually happen.

#7996 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Cointaker is probably in position to lose the most of anybody in the mess.

With what 2 dozen machines are worth, if Cointaker is on the hook to THEIR customers this mess could literally ruin them.

#7997 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

But it's a bit disingenuous

To who?

#7998 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I'm not on his blogs or FB but has anything come out from John that things are at a standstill?
Has he ever said what happened to his promised reveals? Surely he does not think the Adobe video as an on the rug reveal?

John knows it is over. He's not talking like Kevin wasn't talking once predator blew up. There's nothing left to say, just time to GTFO of dodge. The only people who don't know it's over is a couple extreme optimists in this thread.

#7999 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Zidware, Inc. was arguably insolvent many months ago, and probably could not perform under the terms of your proposed agreement, so unless you were going to be paid Cash In Advance, there appears to be little benefit in postulating that if John had only sent you a playfield a few months ago, everything would somehow be magically different today. FAST Pinball would have simply joined the long line of unsecured creditors already owed money by Zidware.

I think it's clear now that FAST dodged a bullet. And things were definitely more murky just a couple of months ago.

#8000 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'll help a group commission some original ZY prints if that's all you're looking for.

I would actually be excitedly on-board with this. If nothing else, I know he would deliver.

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