(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#7501 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I'm just saying, John could sit around NOT building games in a lot, LOT less space.

When John expanded into the adjacent space, it made sense since it was going to be used as an assembly area for the games. Now that so much time has passed and a single game hasn't been built, it was clearly just another utterly foolish decision in a long line of foolish decisions.

#7502 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

The economics of that were always impossible

I think the economics were originally possible, well maybe not with John's "vision" and certainly not with the way he is running the 'business'. Had he used 'common' parts, instead of wanting to re-invent the wheel, as well as not re-engineering and re-designing things over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Obviously this gets back to having a business person running things. Whether it was Bally/Williams, Stern or anyone else, you manage to a budget and a timeline. Yes, that requires tough decisions to be made as to what you can do and what you can't in a machine. Lots of pins had things get cut due to budget or time constraints. It is the nature of product development and manufacturing (well of course the after market has put a lot of those things back into games, e.g. third magnet in TZ). John does not want to play by those rules and that is why things are in the sad state they are in.

On a positive note, John and Kevin are both providing great examples of what not to do if you want to be a boutique pinball maker.

#7503 4 years ago

This is all very sad. My experience with aerospace and automotive manufacturing through the years proves to me that regardless of capital on hand, it's not the deciding factor in a successful business. In fact, it is not even a starting point.

Manufacturing is brutally difficult even with sufficiant capital.

#7504 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I'm just saying, John could sit around NOT building games in a lot, LOT less space.

Like a spare bedroom, basement or garage.

Really if you look at any successful startup:

Apple rented a garage (easily less than 200 square feet).
Orange county choppers started in his basement (pushed finished bikes up a ramp to get them out)
West Coast choppers - Jesse james rented out a corner of a service garage
Pinball life - started in his garage
Day one pinball was built in Terry's existing warehouse space

10
#7505 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Really if you look at any successful startup:

Apple rented a garage (easily less than 200 square feet).
Orange county choppers started in his basement (pushed finished bikes up a ramp to get them out)
West Coast choppers - Jesse james rented out a corner of a service garage
Pinball life - started in his garage
Day one pinball was built in Terry's existing warehouse space

What do all those companies have in common?

They were started with their principle owner's money, not given a million dollar advance from the customer.

Quoted from benheck:

Until games have shipped it's not his money being foolishly wasted, it's yours.

Yes, this is painful.

23
#7506 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

What do all those companies have in common?
They were started with their principle owner's money, not given a million dollar advance from the customer.

Plus sitting on a million bucks you're "pre-earned" doesn't cause one to work very hard.

#7507 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Really if you look at any successful startup:
Apple rented a garage (easily less than 200 square feet).
Orange county choppers started in his basement (pushed finished bikes up a ramp to get them out)
West Coast choppers - Jesse james rented out a corner of a service garage
Pinball life - started in his garage
Day one pinball was built in Terry's existing warehouse space

Skip the start-up and go straight to giant corporation status:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/i-should-start-some-sort-of-huge-corporation,10704/

#7508 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Plus sitting on a million bucks you're "pre-earned" doesn't cause one to work very hard.

Ding ding ding......we have a winner!

#7509 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Plus sitting on a million bucks you're "pre-earned" doesn't cause one to work very hard.

This is by far the biggest thing for me... once John has already been paid for the machines, the only thing keeping him focused on actually delivering them is moral integrity... which we all know can waver at times unfortunately.

#7510 4 years ago

93% of all new businesses go under within 5 years.

We can't be surprised when it happens, because it's the most likely outcome.

21
#7511 4 years ago

Why anyone with knowledge of these projects would ever preorder a pinball machine in the future is beyond me. Wait for them to have a product to buy before sending them your cash. I've learned my lesson. While there is no other theme I'd want more then TBL I refuse to send any money until machines are shipping.

#7512 4 years ago

All good points these last several posts.

John is probably very talented, gifted maybe.

But there are a lot is super smart and successful people on Pinside. Ben, Aaron (I would assume), Ice (I assume) many others. Who have posted with ideas or suggestions.

Either John thinks he's smarter than everyone else or he's too pig headed to admit he messed up.

His manifesto, just his tone said as much, he did not admit he had messed up or was not on target. He was kind of shaking his finger at Pinside or the people trying to cause 'great harm'. His letter reminded me more of Kevin's responses latest to Pinball News. He's not admitting he messed up, something didn't go correctly but it's not all his fault, like people were against him was the main reason for his failure.

He won't even admit he's messed up, is what really gets me.

I find an interesting parallel between John and Gary Stern or whoever is in charge at Stern. We rail against Stern when they don't ship code sometimes as much as a year, yet Stern doesn't really reply (much like John). Could care less about their loyal customers. But at the end of the day at least Stern (usually) will fix the code enough so that it's not a complete f-up.

I believe both John and Stern have an eye on their critics. Both will ignore us to the extreme. But at the end of the day, Stern ships games and finishes code enough so that they don't completely ruin their reputation. So far John had shipped jack squat.

15
#7513 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Plus sitting on a million bucks you're "pre-earned" doesn't cause one to work very hard.

"Pre-earned" is a great euphemism for "didn't earn."

#7514 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

So far John had shipped jack squat.

well lets be honest @ least he has shipped out the requests for more payments $

12
#7515 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Either John thinks he's smarter than everyone else or he's too pig headed to admit he messed up.

If you talk to some of his former colleagues, you'll find that this isn't a new situation - there's a lot of parallels to previous projects (note, plural) getting derailed. The difference was back then he had a boss.

I'm beginning to think the whole NDA secrecy thing wasn't to protect his intellectual property, it was to stifle people talking to each other and realizing they were being JPOPed. If people were free to share and talk, they'd soon see he was a total flake. And in retrospect the signs were clear - no one in the pinball business would hire him, at a time when Lawlor and Ritchie were coming out with new games. Red Alert!

#7516 4 years ago
Quoted from aingide:

"Pre-earned" is a great euphemism for "didn't earn."

The fact that this is major cash to most people, heck I do very well but it's still major cash, weeks or more for most people by hard work to actuall earn the deposit money, entrust it to John. It may sound foolish now after all this time, but back 3 years ago most people trusted John and now it's down to a Hail Mary pass to have a chance to save these games or get a refund even.

#7517 4 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

Why anyone with knowledge of these projects would ever preorder a pinball machine in the future is beyond me. Wait for them to have a product to buy before sending them your cash. I've learned my lesson.

I think a lot of people have learned their lessons, both 1st hand or 2nd hand. Look at John's email blaming pinside for him not being able to generate new sales.

#7518 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

His manifesto, just his tone said as much, he did not admit he had messed up or was not on target.

I don't think he's ever written a thing about the debt he has to us, both contractually and morally. It's like his company was funded with lottery winnings or something, and never a thought more about it.

#7519 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

The difference was back then he had a boss.

Yup, things sure did look more organized back then.

Jpop top right.

p10all.jpg

#7520 4 years ago
Quoted from Tharizdun:

They look like shady characters from bad 70's cop shows. Seriously.

That's not entirely fair. They could have easily been the nayer-do-wells on the good 70's cops shows too!

#7521 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

yet Stern doesn't really reply (much like John). Could care less about their loyal customers.

Stern does not reply because it's a no-win situation.

When people email me to argue about something I've already answered, I simply don't reply.

It does not mean that I don't care, it just means that I'm not going to sit there and defend every little nuance of anything I've ever said.....

#7522 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

I'm beginning to think the whole NDA secrecy thing wasn't to protect his intellectual property, it was to stifle people talking to each other and realizing they were being JPOPed. If people were free to share and talk, they'd soon see he was a total flake. And in retrospect the signs were clear - no one in the pinball business would hire him, at a time when Lawlor and Ritchie were coming out with new games. Red Alert!

Bingo!

Also, John didn't want the people who signed the NDA and were working on the project to even talk to the other people who also signed the NDA and were also working on the SAME project! He kept most of the "workers" in their own silos. It ended up being this big secret club where no one even knew who the other secret members were... and everyone afraid to say anything for fear of the big NDA hanging over their heads.

#7523 4 years ago

vid1900, what's your email address again?

11
#7524 4 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

vid1900, what's your email address again?

look@cox.net

#7525 4 years ago

Just an observation but to me a big mistake was to limit his games to such a low number. The design and software is the same and the more you make the cheaper each part becomes. Find someone willing to buy his work raise the number of games to as many as can be sold and build them. When it is over give the original people some of their money back. Easier said than done but still.

#7526 4 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Just an observation but to me a big mistake was to limit his games to such a low number. The design and software is the same and the more you make the cheaper each part becomes. Find someone willing to buy his work raise the number of games to as many as can be sold and build them. When it is over give the original people some of their money back. Easier said than done but still.

without the "scarcity", i really doubt he could have gotten people to plunk down the SIGNIFICANT price premium these were sold at...

#7527 4 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

without the "scarcity", i really doubt he could have gotten people to plunk down the SIGNIFICANT price premium these were sold at...

It's also tougher to threaten 100's or 1000's of pre-order people with NDA lawsuits after you've broken 99% of your end of the contract. Keeping it small makes it easier to bully the group.

#7528 4 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

without the "scarcity", i really doubt he could have gotten people to plunk down the SIGNIFICANT price premium these were sold at...

The scarcity is what drove the sales. Otherwise why not wait? But that wouldn't generate a million in seed money.

#7529 4 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

Why anyone with knowledge of these projects would ever preorder a pinball machine in the future is beyond me. Wait for them to have a product to buy before sending them your cash. I've learned my lesson. While there is no other theme I'd want more then TBL I refuse to send any money until machines are shipping.

Indeed.

As I've said before, check out my Avatar. I am super stoked for Alien, can't wait! But I don't have a penny down on it at this point. If I "miss out" on an LE, so be it. Not paying until they are shipping.

I think between Skit-B, JPop and even some of the issues we've seen at DP with TBL, people *are* learning that pre-order is a risky proposition that doesn't make a ton of sense. Even JJP, who finally got to the point of shipping WOZ in volume, is still a bit of a risk with Hobbit as I doubt that they are operating in the black yet.

#7530 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

The scarcity is what drove the sales. Otherwise why not wait? But that wouldn't generate a million in seed money.

yup... i agree with that as well...

#7532 4 years ago

Thanks for the email. As I mentioned before I have been battling the “pinside” group for months now (since the DP downfall began in public) and it has done the most damage to my work, apart from anything I have missed or do poorly as a business owner. In many cases people (many not owners) have severley damaged my business, reputation and exploding my customer base with their public statements, rants and “toxic” posts.

Notice he is blaming DP downfall for this S-Storm. It was before the DP fiasco, really when DP showed an actual playable game (On the rug) at Expo and John was standing there with his D-ck in his hand.

Notice he's back with the 'Great Harm", not my fault right from the get go. (Kevin, I mean John really has this down pat).

Also been harrased by phone, computer, email, text or incited by posters online, which is a criminal offence today.

So is not paying your vendors and taking money and not delivering anything.

I don't think phoning, texting or leaving messages on his email is a criminal offense.

All of this sadly has taken away from pinball making time here, as there are only so many hours in the day ( I do still work 7 x14). i do post what I can to the blog and to people’s email. Still get 100+ per day.

I call BS on him working 14 hrs a day. Maybe he means he is goofing off 7x14.

Also, can't you just imagine getting 100+ emails a day?

I bet there are a lot of the same/similar questions such as when are the machines shipping, can I get a refund and where is the "on the rug" reveal you promised several months ago?

We do have some “viable” negotiations still ongoing (all documented in emails and legally – not fluff) to partner and/or get more funding to keep the company strong and moving ahead.

So you're saying you don't have enough money to build the pins you are contracted to build. That's an automatic breach of contract.

As the “pinside” wave has helped to cause many of my customers to stop support, except for a few and actually has halted some other investors or big orders coming in for new game sales for open games. I feel pinside and a lot of the posters (many in an NDA – many behind fake names) are all liable in some form. Obviously I cannot discuss openly any deals until it’s news, and choose not to bait people with false hopes. There are a few owners that know “all” and I trust them for feedback. Some I thought i could trust but was used. We recently had to “no-reply” to a awful pinball deal (in works for months and looked promissing) that came our way. My attorney and I were genuinely sad and dissapointed. Some of the discussions are now very amazing and all would benefit, but sadly nothing is fast or signed. Luckily since the beginning of the project we have a long trail of development to refer to as record, and the work is really far along and looks good. Been as open, honest, sincere as I can in this now “crowded” and “competitive” pinball world. But yes I am not done, and I “suck” at being on “internet time” for communication. Not new news, I have been told this and agree. My brain is just wired differently as an artist, and i am no social network maven.

Block of text, can't really read the whole thing, but I think the gist is that Pinside is driving people away and stopping further payments, not John's lack of progress.

Obviously there is nothing I can do to stop people from going after me legally or pressing charges at any time for anything in America, personally or in business. I have that same right to go after my critics or anyone. But certainly anything big would shutdown all work here immediately, as my time would be needed for legal items I am sure and to protect the work and pinball IP which is substantial. I probably could not afford either to hire lawyers needed. Never been sued or charged in the past “for anything”, lead a quiet (somewhat) peaceful career, so I have no experience at all, other than the attorneys make out fine financially and not all attorneys are to be “trusted” as I have learn firsthand.

Double threat, both he will sue you in court (for what sending an email or saying he has not delivered a game that was slated for 2013?). Also he says obviously him being in court will cancel the game (or delay it more further - I know more further is a double ambiguous time range but that's the best I can judge).

More great harm, one time he said to me that he drives his artists hard but you can't push anyone too hard or they will quit (this was a thinly veiled threat that if he was being pushed too hard he would quit).

Also was told, in person, a group of owners wants to force a close of my business, buy the assets at auction, and then resell or license to a larger group. My response was that if these “Wizards” have a positive deal ready, in writing, to now show the hand, tell the group (under NDA) and not wait. Could be a longterm “win-win”. My goal is to complete these pinball machines and of course listen to all ideas to move it along in a good fashion.

That all sounds great John, so when are the games shipping?

I have copied my advisor on this as well, as a “very good” friend and legal guru since day one. My goal was to make good pinball machines for people, the pinball community that have supported me with kudos and funds my whole career, but it has not been the journey as I thought. But ultimately I understand I am the guy at the top and accountable. I do not have all the “correct” answers today, I am very sorry but still 100% on it as I speak.

Is this Kevin or John speaking?

We need to give John more kudos, maybe that will get his rear in gear.

#7534 4 years ago

What is the DP downfall he's talking about? I wouldn't even think he'd be aware of phil gate, nor was/is it their downfall. Does he mean his own downfall from a company like DP (and spooky ) showing up after he started and have a lot more to show? Or is he meaning DP in a different sense.. You know, parlance of our times and all

#7535 4 years ago

I think he is blaming philgate on his problems. Cause not delivering or showing product has nothing to do with shaking his customers' confidence, it's all Phil's fault.

#7536 4 years ago

I liked this part:

"But the knowledge and experience it takes to create a physical product--one that often needs to be manufactured overseas--relies on a different set of skills and relationships. Simply put: Entrepreneurship isn't art.

To the uninitiated, manufacturing physical products can be an incredibly tricky business, especially when it comes to contract manufacturing, designing product runs, managing inventory, shipping, logistics, etc."

That felt particularly relevant.

Also:

"It seems obvious now, but 'there's a huge gap between having an idea, and designing a product, and actually manufacturing something.'"

#7537 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I liked this part:
"But the knowledge and experience it takes to create a physical product--one that often needs to be manufactured overseas--relies on a different set of skills and relationships. Simply put: Entrepreneurship isn't art.
To the uninitiated, manufacturing physical products can be an incredibly tricky business, especially when it comes to contract manufacturing, designing product runs, managing inventory, shipping, logistics, etc."
That felt particularly relevant.
Also:
"It seems obvious now, but 'there's a huge gap between having an idea, and designing a product, and actually manufacturing something.'"

Very good points. I have run a business for 15 years focused in web based software. When we started FAST and created real physical goods, I learned so much about the many factors in play. The designing, the developing, the sourcing, the waiting, the testing, the cost! And then repeat the process again and again until you get it right.

I am glad we got to design and develop the FAST hardware without the pressure of other people's money hanging over us. The stress and the fear of shortcutting the process to just "get it done" vs. taking the time to develop it right, would just be too much.

If/when we ever seek outside funds I hope it would be to execute a well thought out plan that is exciting and provides a proper upside for investors. Not everyone has the stomach for that kind of risk. I certainly don't want to make any customer feel like they are embarking on a relationship with undue risk.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#7538 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

Very good points. I have run a business for 15 years focused in web based software. When we started FAST and created real physical goods, I learned so much about the many factors in play. The designing, the developing, the sourcing, the waiting, the testing, the cost! And then repeat the process again and again until you get it right.
I am glad we got to design and develop the FAST hardware without the pressure of other people's money hanging over us. The stress and the fear of shortcutting the process to just "get it done" vs. taking the time to develop it right, would just be too much.
If/when we ever seek outside funds I hope it would be to execute a well thought out plan that is exciting and provides a proper upside for investors. Not everyone has the stomach for that kind of risk. I certainly don't want to make any customer feel like they are embarking on a relationship with undue risk.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Umm. I think that ship has sailed, if you are saying what I think you are saying.? Meaning preorder money.

#7539 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

If/when we ever seek outside funds I hope it would be to execute a well thought out plan that is exciting and provides a proper upside for investors. Not everyone has the stomach for that kind of risk. I certainly don't want to make any customer feel like they are embarking on a relationship with undue risk.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Too soon.

#7540 4 years ago
Quoted from PEN:

Umm. I think that ship has sailed, if you are saying what I think you are saying.? Meaning preorder money.

Oh no, I didn't mean preorder money. That's crazy talk.

Traditional financing. If your plan is solid, your pitch is strong, you can find a financial partner. Pinball is a hard sell to potential investors outside of the community. You really need people who are passionate about pinball and believe in the project.

I meant only that there are better routes to go for financial support than putting that risk/burden on customers.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

10
#7541 4 years ago

I've owned operated a multimedia company for about 18 years....many, many of my Clients provide deposits on approved projects, as I can't afford to play bank on the big ones. Both parties at risk...there has to be an established business ethics approach ( with a legally binding contract) or nothing gets done .

Pay me to pay attention to your project and do my job...it's how I feed my ( and my employees) families. We agree on the terms, and the project is done....some complete before schedule, some on schedule, and some behind...

But never, ever, have I seen a scenario play out like this one without serious consequences. If I ever got substantial ( or full payment) for a job I agreed to, and no real progress in 3 years??? Can't even comprehend that.....30 days behind and Im under the bus. 6 months ( a couple of times w legitimate reasons) Customer at my door. Can't count on one hand Clients that I had to fire.

Enough is enough....end this for the sake of people who were obviously unwilling partners in this fiasco. Just not right....why not make Monday a " come clean" day, and deal with the reality...everyday wasted makes things that much worse....believe that!!!.....

#7542 4 years ago

So now that a few more days have passed since jpop threatening letter for him to completely dump the project and walk away if people didn't stop the Pinside talk/ threatening lawsuits. Who thinks he turned out the lights and gave up yet??? I'm paraphrasing what he wrote forgive me if I read it wrong.

#7543 4 years ago

He's not going to turn out the lights voluntarily.

#7544 4 years ago

BTW...I never, never, never have been paid in full for a project before it was completed....customer always holds minimum of 10-20% until I'm done! and customer happy....just how normal bus works...

That's why alien was a reasonable approach for me. Minimal deposit, not a penny more until my machine is being built ( per Andrews terms)....seems reasonable to show commitment to a machine I want....my deposit certainly didn't buy his C&C machine, factory, Staff, materials, engineering, art, etc.

Just my way to show my seriousness/ commitment, and he can gauge production on #s as such...a 180 from what has been displayed in "Boutique" land ( starting to hate that term)....mark

#7545 4 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

When John expanded into the adjacent space, it made sense since it was going to be used as an assembly area for the games. Now that so much time has passed and a single game hasn't been built, it was clearly just another utterly foolish decision in a long line of foolish decisions.

He probably used the same logic as people who buy exercise equipment: "if I buy the Flexmaster 9000, surely I'll get in shape". Then of course, after using it once and the euphoria of the new purchase subsides, it gets forgotten.

#7546 4 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

BTW...I never, never, never have been paid in full for a project before it was completed....customer always holds minimum of 10-20% until I'm done! and customer happy....just how normal bus works...
That's why alien was a reasonable approach for me. Minimal deposit, not a penny more until my machine is being built ( per Andrews terms)....seems reasonable to show commitment to a machine I want....my deposit certainly didn't buy his C&C machine, factory, Staff, materials, engineering, art, etc.
Just my way to show my seriousness/ commitment, and he can gauge production on #s as such...a 180 from what has been displayed in "Boutique" land ( starting to hate that term)....mark

Skit-B claimed to do the same, which was the only reason I jumped on-board. It was 250 to reserve a spot, then when your game was on the floor being built, about half, then the rest when it was ready to ship.

About 18 months later, he asked for the half, but there was no evidence he had the means to build machines, nor that mine was being built. That's when I dropped out and got a refund, because I realized if I stayed in at that point it was a pure gamble with several thousand dollars. Nope, too rich for my blood.

Not suggesting this will happend with Andrew but just saying that line has been played before.

#7547 4 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

I've owned operated a multimedia company for about 18 years....many, many of my Clients provide deposits on approved projects, as I can't afford to play bank on the big ones. Both parties at risk...there has to be an established business ethics approach ( with a legally binding contract) or nothing gets done .
Pay me to pay attention to your project and do my job...it's how I feed my ( and my employees) families. We agree on the terms, and the project is done....some complete before schedule, some on schedule, and some behind...
But never, ever, have I seen a scenario play out like this one without serious consequences. If I ever got substantial ( or full payment) for a job I agreed to, and no real progress in 3 years??? Can't even comprehend that.....30 days behind and Im under the bus. 6 months ( a couple of times w legitimate reasons) Customer at my door. Can't count on one hand Clients that I had to fire.
Enough is enough....end this for the sake of people who were obviously unwilling partners in this fiasco. Just not right....why not make Monday a " come clean" day, and deal with the reality...everyday wasted makes things that much worse....believe that!!!.....

According to some people here, going to Johns door is akin to wanting to kill him or something.

#7548 4 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

According to some people here, going to Johns door is akin to wanting to kill him or something.

Not implying that in anyway...just similar to anyone going to a place of business to inquire the status of the order, or request a refund....I did it at Home Depot last week....0 confrontation, just part of doing business...

#7549 4 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

why not make Monday a " come clean" day, and deal with the reality

That ain't gonna happen, unfortunately.

#7550 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

Skit-B claimed to do the same, which was the only reason I jumped on-board. It was 250 to reserve a spot, then when your game was on the floor being built, about half, then the rest when it was ready to ship.
About 18 months later, he asked for the half, but there was no evidence he had the means to build machines, nor that mine was being built. That's when I dropped out and got a refund, because I realized if I stayed in at that point it was a pure gamble with several thousand dollars. Nope, too rich for my blood.
Not suggesting this will happend with Andrew but just saying that line has been played before.

I was never in on Predator ( though title was very appealing), and have never preordered a Pin before Alien. I did do some homework on Heighway before committing, and this is very much an oranges and apples scenario. Want an LE bad ( at least believe I do) and simply secured my spot with a reasonable, refundable deposit, showing my interest ( my take). I've never viewed this position as one to "help" Heighway fund the project......certainly seems he's building these regardless if I'm in or out....I just want one...plain and simple.

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Classic Game Rooms
$ 27.50
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
6,000
Machine - For Sale
Mendon, MASSACHUSETTS
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