(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#7151 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I posted this in the private facebook group:
I spent 90 min on the phone with John today and I must say I went from total despair to somewhat hopeful! I still think these games can be built, John is working on a few things and I felt good about our conversation. I told him the same thing everyone else has been telling him Communicate with your owners & show your work to all.... Now is the worst possible time to cut off communication! I think he gets it but we shall see.
EOM

I think if he spent 90 minutes posting information on forums he'd be much better off, than spending 90 minutes with one person. I'm glad you feel hopeful, but it seems like a boat load of people have already given him the same advise, and he hasn't followed through. I hope I'm proven wrong, but so far the odds are in my favor.

#7152 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Unfortunately we could copy and paste your message and repost going back in this thread from many different authors.

I think Mr. 68 has the record for shortest time between posting one of those hopeful messages and lapsing back into despair. His posts were like an hour apart. (Sorry Kim!)

#7153 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

oh and PS.... we can't continue with the "I had a great conversation, can't tell you what we talked about but I'm excited!"

This. I have cool, exciting conversations with people about pinball projects all the time. I just don't post about them. Maybe some day some of them will come to light. If you can't say what it is, just keep it to yourself. Because honestly there's no benefit. No offense, but no one at this point will believe you, you're not making anyone actually feel better. And if you're wrong you just end up feeling dumb.

Better to just be hopeful if you have reason to hope, and see what happens.

Edit: Just re-read this, and I sound like a total douche with the "cool, exciting conversations with people about pinball projects all the time" comment. Just saying, I chat with people about their ideas and plans, and lots of it sounds awesome, but it's not really cool to share that I had some conversation. Best to keep private conversations as private.

#7154 4 years ago

Just to show what a broken record this all is, here are some posts of mine:

Post Oct 21, 2014 after Expo and after his big apology letter:

Quoted from frolic:

Thanks for the updates, John. I do want to keep insisting for some answers to questions asked including an updated time line for the project. I appreciate your heart felt post, but I still have no idea what YEAR i might expect the game.

I’m sure I can speak for all of us when I say we all know you have the best of intentions, the quality of the work is beyond debate, but the transparency has been poor and questions have gone unanswered, and still are.

Not trying to be a ball buster. Just want some straight answers to some straight questions. Thanks.

He responded with (Oct 21, 2014)

"Well getting kicked in balls by fellow Canadian Chris was hard, but it is what is needed now. Lying to customers is not the way I work, to make them go away for a while. Wonder if Chris will get me Timbits when we meet face to face, I will have my jock strap on. Jpop"

To which I responded (Oct 21, 2014):

Quoted from frolic:

John, I would love to buy you some timbits and have a laugh about all of this.

Sorry for the tough love. I feel good about things today, I think we’ve turned a corner.

so 6 months ago, I was hoping we turned a corner, but we didn't. So his words mean little now. The time for ACTION was 6 months ago, not sure what can be done now.

#7155 4 years ago
Quoted from Hitch9:

I think if he spent 90 minutes posting information on forums he'd be much better off, than spending 90 minutes with one person. I'm glad you feel hopeful, but it seems like a boat load of people have already given him the same advise, and he hasn't followed through. I hope I'm proven wrong, but so far the odds are in my favor.

Well I convinced him to get back on the owners blog and start posting again.. That's something!
He just posted an update and committed to 2 a week which is a heck of a lot more than what we had been getting.

#7156 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I also have two Shadow translites I need to pack up.

That does it. Enough is enough! On behalf of these poor souls trapped in translite purgatory, I'm filing a civil suit against Aurich and contacting whichever sheriff, FBI agent or superhero that deals with fraud in Torrence (wherever that is). We need to act before that $100 bet disappears and our (well, their) money (well, not their money per-se, it's no money-down) vanishes.

I'm also forming an anonymous group against him as soon as someone can explain to me how to do that and keep it anonymous.

-1
#7157 4 years ago
Quoted from LyonsRonnie1:

If Stern bails him out, they deserve a congressional medal of honor because they sure as hell won't make any profit out of it...

It wouldn't be Stern bailing him out. It wouldn't work if Stern didn't make money on it. Throw out what you know and think of it as a free pin design stern could use just like any other design. Stern profits.

#7158 4 years ago
#7159 4 years ago
Quoted from Hitch9:

I think if he spent 90 minutes posting information on forums he'd be much better off, than spending 90 minutes with one person

This.. supposedly he won't take 5 minutes to respond to customers, but he'll take long phone calls and allow people to walk into his studio and disrupt his day? This isn't very logical, especially since not everyone lives in the chicago area. Also in a 14 hour day, that's at least one poop break. I hear laptops are portable, that's at least one response per day.

#7160 4 years ago

JPOP just needs a kickstarter

#7161 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I posted this in the private facebook group:
I spent 90 min on the phone with John today and I must say I went from total despair to somewhat hopeful! I still think these games can be built, John is working on a few things and I felt good about our conversation. I told him the same thing everyone else has been telling him Communicate with your owners & show your work to all.... Now is the worst possible time to cut off communication! I think he gets it but we shall see.
EOM

This post is extremely familiar.

Ice...is that you?

Edit: should have kept reading. Frolic beat me to it...like he said, this has been written by several different authors. I have yet to hear an owner who has talked to JPop say they were very disappointed in the conversation.

#7162 4 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

JPOP just needs a kickstarter

Throwing more money at it wouldn't solve anything. He's already charging a high dollar value for his machines, and he still can't get them out?

#7163 4 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

Jpop just posted an email on RAZA blog:

I received an email from an owner this morning, “John call to action, a group (person) is gonna’ charge you with fraud and take you down”. He was nice enough to send along, told me to reply “fast”. In respect to the group, which I hold high, I thought I would repost to our blog only here as it is an honest reply at this time, and what appears on the outside is not always what is happening on the inside. Am working hard here everyday despite all the external pressure coming today and this is my best. Am surprised I have not dropped dead. I will keep doing new reports for game progress, new features, more pictures, flipping, etc. And keep on the website.
Again my apologies as I did not get into pinball now to make enemies by any stretch or become a felon, and am posting here so all can read my words sent just a bit ago. Was trying not to do the “mushy” posts anymore but just show real game progress. Jpop
“”””Hi,
Thanks for the email. As I mentioned before I have been battling the “pinside” group for months now (since the DP downfall began in public) and it has done the most damage to my work, apart from anything I have missed or do poorly as a business owner. In many cases people (many not owners) have severley damaged my business, reputation and exploding my customer base with their public statements, rants and “toxic” posts. Also been harrased by phone, computer, email, text or incited by posters online, which is a criminal offence today.
All of this sadly has taken away from pinball making time here, as there are only so many hours in the day ( I do still work 7 x14). i do post what I can to the blog and to people’s email. Still get 100+ per day. Obviously my door is always open, and I have refused only 1 person from a tour here ever.
We do have some “viable” negotiations still ongoing (all documented in emails and legally – not fluff) to partner and/or get more funding to keep the company strong and moving ahead. As the “pinside” wave has helped to cause many of my customers to stop support, except for a few and actually has halted some other investors or big orders coming in for new game sales for open games. I feel pinside and a lot of the posters (many in an NDA – many behind fake names) are all liable in some form. Obviously I cannot discuss openly any deals until it’s news, and choose not to bait people with false hopes. There are a few owners that know “all” and I trust them for feedback. Some I thought i could trust but was used. We recently had to “no-reply” to a awful pinball deal (in works for months and looked promissing) that came our way. My attorney and I were genuinely sad and dissapointed. Some of the discussions are now very amazing and all would benefit, but sadly nothing is fast or signed. Luckily since the beginning of the project we have a long trail of development to refer to as record, and the work is really far along and looks good. Been as open, honest, sincere as I can in this now “crowded” and “competitive” pinball world. But yes I am not done, and I “suck” at being on “internet time” for communication. Not new news, I have been told this and agree. My brain is just wired differently as an artist, and i am no social network maven.
Obviously there is nothing I can do to stop people from going after me legally or pressing charges at any time for anything in America, personally or in business. I have that same right to go after my critics or anyone. But certainly anything big would shutdown all work here immediately, as my time would be needed for legal items I am sure and to protect the work and pinball IP which is substantial. I probably could not afford either to hire lawyers needed. Never been sued or charged in the past “for anything”, lead a quiet (somewhat) peaceful career, so I have no experience at all, other than the attorneys make out fine financially and not all attorneys are to be “trusted” as I have learn firsthand.
Also was told, in person, a group of owners wants to force a close of my business, buy the assets at auction, and then resell or license to a larger group. My response was that if these “Wizards” have a positive deal ready, in writing, to now show the hand, tell the group (under NDA) and not wait. Could be a longterm “win-win”. My goal is to complete these pinball machines and of course listen to all ideas to move it along in a good fashion.
I have copied my advisor on this as well, as a “very good” friend and legal guru since day one. My goal was to make good pinball machines for people, the pinball community that have supported me with kudos and funds my whole career, but it has not been the journey as I thought. But ultimately I understand I am the guy at the top and accountable. I do not have all the “correct” answers today, I am very sorry but still 100% on it as I speak.

#7164 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

But I wonder how many melons do they believe they will sell?

I'm fairly certain Stern got paid on a "per piece" basis for BJM. Doesn't matter to them how many get sold.

Gary has been adamant in the past that there is limited demand for non-licensed tables. They won't touch this with a ten foot pole.

#7165 4 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Sadly, I think a fisheye photo of an art sample would have been more confidence-inspiring. Thanks for posting.

IMO

Instead all his posturing and his defensiveness, if he would be more open with his progress and refund anyone who desires a refund he could continue on his way and everyone would be happy.

Why can't he see that, if he doesn't want the owners to be worked up about his games, then he should either deliver the games or refund since he has missed his deadline by 2 years.

#7166 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

IMO
Instead all his posturing and his defensiveness, if he would be more open with his progress and refund anyone who desires a refund he could continue on his way and everyone would be happy.
Why can't he see that, if he doesn't want the owners to be worked up about his games, then he should either deliver the games or refund since he has missed his deadline by 2 years.

No money left to refund??

#7167 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

IMO
Instead all his posturing and his defensiveness, if he would be more open with his progress and refund anyone who desires a refund he could continue on his way and everyone would be happy.
Why can't he see that, if he doesn't want the owners to be worked up about his games, then he should either deliver the games or refund since he has missed his deadline by 2 years.

He can't refund. You have to have money to do that, he clearly has none.

You need money to build games too. Let's face it, none of them are remotely close to done, it will be years before they are (if ever), and he doesn't have the funds to do that, and build them.

An investor steps up, he sells off the games to someone else, or it's over. I can't see any other reasonable scenario. If he's mad that Pinside is messing up his deals he really has no one to blame but himself.

10
#7168 4 years ago

Plus, John is the one who promised a big reveal at Expo and did not bring anything but empty cabinets. Then he promised a big MG (Labowski effect) for December and a big RAZA reveal for January.

So what's up John, why do you keep making promises and then don't show anything?

25
#7169 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Pretty sure if you can find a post that's more worked up than that one it's probably in this thread too.
I think I probably wrote that post after talking to people who were personally getting the run around from John and just couldn't stand seeing friends and people I respected getting the shaft over and over from this guy. Yes, I do feel a little sorry for him.

JPOP is a few balls short of a multiball. I don't feel sorry for him at all. I might feel sorry for the guy who over-promised on something for $50, or maybe even $500. When you take a million plus of other peoples' money, you just have to goddamn deliver and be a professional. To be flippant with that amount of cash, not have a plan to deliver and not discipline oneself to meet schedules and customer expectations is criminal to me. You have a responsibility to a lot of people for a lot of money and there's no excuses. Good intentions don't cut it. Pinside is a bunch of meanies, doesn't cut it. Claiming to work 14 hours a day doesn't cut it. Only delivering cuts it. He shouldn't have wandered over to the deep end of the pool.

I wouldn't pay him to build me a hamburger.

#7170 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

Claiming to work 14 hours a day doesn't cut it. Only delivering cuts it

/\ this.. customers don't care what a business goes through to deliver product, they don't care how many hours you worked, they don't care if one of your workers had a basement flood. They just care about cost, quality, and schedule, period.

I'm willing to bet Charlie from spooky went through all sorts of issues. Steep learning curve of learning CAD to design, learning how to do wiring harnesses, learning how to build a small scale factory. Hell, he even has a podcast and had every opportunity to complain or make excuses, but he didn't. He pressed on, and delivered product.

#7171 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

he didn't misrepresent anything in order to get people's money?

He was estimating shipment and delivery in 4th quarter of 2013.

True, I don't think he's committing fraud, but he is in breach of contract. If he can not deliver pins in a reasonable time (I mean some time soon) than he's totally misrepresented his capability.

----
What is a "Breach of Contract"?

A business contract creates certain obligations that are to be fulfilled by the people or companies who entered into the agreement. In the eyes of the law, a party's failure to fulfill an end of the bargain under a contract is known as a "breach" of the contract. Depending on the specifics of the contract, a breach can occur when a party fails to perform on time, does not perform in accordance with the terms of the agreement, or does not perform at all.

What Happens After a Contract is Breached?
When a breach of contract happens (or when a breach is alleged), one or both of the parties may wish to have the contract enforced on its terms, or may try to recover for any financial harm caused by the alleged breach.

If a dispute over a contract arises and informal attempts at resolution fail, the most common method used to resolve contract disputes and enforce contracts is through lawsuits and the court system. If the amount at issue is below a certain dollar figure (usually $3,000 to $7,500 depending on the state), the parties may be able to use "small claims" court to resolve the issue.

#7172 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

When you take a million plus of other peoples' money, you just have to goddamn deliver and be a professional. To be flippant with that amount of cash, not have a plan to deliver and not discipline oneself to meet schedules and customer expectations is criminal to me.

Given what he has shown, I just cannot imagine where a million dollars would have gone. IMO, he had to be paying himself a large salary. I have to think that opens himself up to damages (personally) if the court does not find that amount of money to be very reasonable.

Also, if John could take another month or two and put each of these games as close to a finished whitewood as possible I could foresee a large auction. Auction off all prototypes, artwork drawings, translights, playfields, etc (everything!) and take all of the money raised from that and distribute it back to the pre-order people. It might bring back a good chunk of the money.

#7173 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I do. Definitely. The whole thing is very sad. No one is cheering that he failed. I'd much rather he succeeded and people were happy with their games.
I don't think he's a bad person. He had good intentions, good ideas, and he got in way over his head, from the start.

I feel sorry for John as well as the community, I hope he is not implying we are hoping for him to fail, or that we are against him and these pins.

Actually we are for the pins. People paid $5K+ for the pins, not wanting him to fail. We want him to succeed. I am really hoping he's just being super secret and next week he will reveal the games (as Stern does... here is the games, we will be sending you a confirmation for the remainder and setting up a shipping date). nothing would make me happier.

But instead (to me) it seems as if he doesn't have a playable game, a programmer even an controller board or OS to run the games.

#7174 4 years ago

Either one of these things are true;

1) He truly has his head in the sand and is oblivious to the intensity of dissatisfaction aimed at him in this thread, or

2) He lurks here as a visitor and obsesses over every word.

I'm gonna go with #2.... Wouldn't you? If one of the most visited threads on the premier pinball site was all about me, I'd never leave the house.

So going with this... if 94% of the pinball community had a problem with you, wouldn't you get all introspective and accept that you're the problem?

#7175 4 years ago

I'm not an artist or a genius nor claim to be, but I think given 5-6 month of 70 hrs of work a week, the time since Expo. I could probably build a shooting pinball machine with ramps and magnet tricks. Basically he's talking about what would be equivalent to a year of 'normal work' When people say they work 36-40 hrs a week, they call that a full time job, so someone working 70 hrs a week is basically working 2 full time jobs.

Now, true my game would not be anything special, but it would be playable. Now take that time and add the 2 years prior John had to lay the groundwork. (if you believe he's working 2 full time jobs, that's 5 years of possible time by a master pinabll builder with 30+ years in the industry, you would expect to see a playable game or three by now).

I'm not saying Ben made it look easy, but Ben destroyed all the "building pinball is hard" excuse doesn't fly. I know it's hard, but John, you are the one that wanted to do it, and you are the one with 30+ years in the industry. If Ben can do it in half the time, I don't know what's keeping John from making his pins.

#7176 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

He was estimating shipment and delivery in 4th quarter of 2013.
True, I don't think he's committing fraud, but he is in breach of contract. If he can not deliver pins in a reasonable time (I mean some time soon) than he's totally misrepresented his capability.
----
What is a "Breach of Contract"?
A business contract creates certain obligations that are to be fulfilled by the people or companies who entered into the agreement. In the eyes of the law, a party's failure to fulfill an end of the bargain under a contract is known as a "breach" of the contract. Depending on the specifics of the contract, a breach can occur when a party fails to perform on time, does not perform in accordance with the terms of the agreement, or does not perform at all.
What Happens After a Contract is Breached?
When a breach of contract happens (or when a breach is alleged), one or both of the parties may wish to have the contract enforced on its terms, or may try to recover for any financial harm caused by the alleged breach.
If a dispute over a contract arises and informal attempts at resolution fail, the most common method used to resolve contract disputes and enforce contracts is through lawsuits and the court system. If the amount at issue is below a certain dollar figure (usually $3,000 to $7,500 depending on the state), the parties may be able to use "small claims" court to resolve the issue.

In Illinois, Small Claims goes up to 10k.

Breach or fraud is debatable but the bottom line is still the same: no money and no game. Regardless of which it is, you should fight for you money the same way: tooth and nail. If he's truly just a good guy who got in over his head, then history will be a kinder judge.

#7177 4 years ago
Quoted from s1500:

Throwing more money at it wouldn't solve anything. He's already charging a high dollar value for his machines, and he still can't get them out?

For the refunds

#7178 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I'm not an artist or a genius nor claim to be, but I think given 5-6 month of 70 hrs of work a week, the time since Expo. I could probably build a shooting pinball machine with ramps and magnet tricks. Basically he's talking about what would be equivalent to a year of 'normal work' When people say they work 36-40 hrs a week, they call that a full time job, so someone working 70 hrs a week is basically working 2 full time jobs.
Now, true my game would not be anything special, but it would be playable. Now take that time and add the 2 years prior John had to lay the groundwork. (if you believe he's working 2 full time jobs, that's 5 years of possible time by a master pinabll builder with 30+ years in the industry, you would expect to see a playable game or three by now).
I'm not saying Ben made it look easy, but Ben destroyed all the "building pinball is hard" excuse doesn't fly. I know it's hard, but John, you are the one that wanted to do it, and you are the one with 30+ years in the industry. If Ben can do it in half the time, I don't know what's keeping John from making his pins.

Actually, it's closer to four years.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/john$20popadiuk/rec.games.pinball/l9ehsfNqKuo/IC2-0uSOhmcJ

#7179 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I dunno, I don't think it really takes more than we already know.
John wanted to build way too few games, for way too much money, and he wanted to reinvent the wheel on every part, requiring custom manufacturing and tooling every step of the way.
The hinges for instance, not something you can just order a bunch up of because they're standard, you have to send the prototype to the factory, have them build a one off duplicate to approve, and then set up the tooling so you, what? Order 100? The scale makes no sense, the investment makes no sense.
Maybe you ditch the hinges, no one cared anyways. But every part and bit might have the same mentality. Giant headaches and tons of cash. Not worth it.

another example I posted, way back I said to John, Tron LE or Eli wire ramps are so cool. What about that? He was asking for suggestions at the time.

He said, that's been done he doesn't want to follow in others footsteps (etc..) so he gets the idea to make Neon light ramps. I am talking actual Neon lights, and Neon light is not some low power or low cost proposition. I believe it takes a lot of watts and very complex and expensive. maybe it'd look cool, but how much time and money are you going to throw at every sub system? I mean, Tron Eli light ramp kits are $400. I assume, John could have done something similar on the same wavelength. But you think of the time and effort to develop a Neon light ramp (it's glass tubes, not exatly want you want in a pinball machine with steel balls flying around).

edit: just looked this up, neon lights use 10x more power than LEDs.

here is some info I found about Neon lights, they don't sound ideal for pinball use.
======
LED signs have virtually no maintenance. There are no gases, no glass tubes, no argon or mercury problems and LED lights don't run out. LED lights are just that...they are small, extremely bright lights (LED stands for light-emitting diodes). LED lights don't have as many issues or problems because its simply little lights. Neon signs will eventually lose all of the neon inside the glass tubes which means you have to replace the gas by taking it to professional neon sign manufacturer or simply buy a new sign. Of course this process takes 10 years or more but eventually it will happen. Another added bonus of LED signs—they are easier to clean than neon signs because there are no tubes to clean off (and those tubes get hot!). LED signs are also high durable and last up to 100,000 hours, even if left on 24/7.

#7180 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

another example I posted, way back I said to John, TRON LE or Eli wire ramps are so cool. What about that? He was asking for suggestions at the time.
He said, that's been done he doesn't want to follow in others footsteps (etc..) so he gets the idea to make Neon light ramps. I am talking actual Neon lights, and Neon light is not some low power or low cost proposition. I believe it takes a lot of watts and very complex and expensive. maybe it'd look cool, but how much time and money are you going to throw at every sub system? I mean, Tron Eli light ramp kits are $400. I assume, John could have done something similar on the same wavelength. But you think of the time and effort to develop a Neon light ramp (it's glass tubes, not exatly want you want in a pinball machine with steel balls flying around).

Neon light ramp has already been done on CV by JPop so it isn't new or innovative.

#7181 4 years ago
Quoted from tracelifter:

Neon light ramp has already been done on CV by JPop so it isn't new or innovative.

I didn't know this, so maybe it was not as expensive as I had thought.

#7182 4 years ago

Kugler Family FTW

Thanks for posting this video otherwise this thread would have been a total bust.

I think the design of this table is excellent and it looks fun.

I sure hope that these JPOP games get made as they have such great potential. I was keep checking in for updates but never see any.

16
#7183 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

Not just blaming, but those are some very thinly veiled threats of legal retaliation for "Great Harm" to his business.
Edit: Since he is obviously referencing StevenP with that last paragraph, I sure would love to hear his thoughts on suing JPOP's critics for damaging his business.

OK, I was minding my own business this evening, playing in the Modern pinball league, when someone there told me there was new JPOP controversy online. So this is the first I've heard of it, just now. As I've been reminding John more and more recently, I'm representing him in intellectual property matters; I'm not a business lawyer and not a litigator and not a bankruptcy attorney. I'm not a "law dog" (although I do like that tagline!) and frankly, I don't think his attitude is helpful. I'm not in control of what he does or doesn't do, and can't force him to follow my friendly common-sense suggestions. In fact, the *only* message I've given him lately (and consistently) (OK, for some time now) is basically this:

Quoted from Rarehero:

John, it's this simple:
COMMUNICATE!!!!!!!!!!!!
When you don't, conversations that you don't like will flourish.
You don't respond to your own customers! If you did that, and issued refunds for those requesting them...no one would be so pissed at you!

I have been imploring him to publicly show and explain what he has done to date, with lots of pictures and video and audio. So far, he simply won't. It really is frustrating and a shame.

Quoted from PinChili:

Which design are you referring to? There hasn't been a flipping whitewood yet, right? So aside from some cool artwork and theme what else is there? Stern would buy incomplete game designs? And do you think John considered BOM cost in his designs like Stern does? And how do the pre-order folks not feel screwed regardless since they were expecting a game with exclusivity and they paid significantly more than what Stern could sell them for.
No way this option happens despite it being a nice thought that someone would bail John out.

Here's where the disconnect is. The 2 titles are mostly complete. Starting with cabinet design and art for both (finalized and all they need is an order placed for production), MG playfield is about 95% complete--I'm talking full artwork, complete layout, ALL mechanisms (including many new toys, plus flippers, bumpers, ramps, magnets, printed plastics, very cool lighting, etc.--all production-ready parts), sound system, a capable boardset (i/o designed by Quetzal, i believe, plus a driver board with serial light addressing, and a specced motherboard--not dissimilar to WOZ, I think), plus original music, a lot of voicework, and a bunch of animation developed for the LCD screen. RAZA is very close to this stage, with a few original playfield toys and a ramp to be finalized and a bit of tweaking to some ramp/post placements. Full artwork is done--payfield, cabinet, plastics. Layout is basically done apart from finalizing the few toys. Not sure how much audio and video are done for this title. These games are NOT that far from being finished, and most of the components are basically production-ready (i.e., fully designed and ready to produce in quantity, where all it would take is to place orders and assemble the parts). This is stuff I saw in person in March.

And do people know this? Not many. Will John show and tell people all of this? I keep hoping so...

17
#7184 4 years ago

I just want a refund. No more leaps of faith for me. Tired of the recriminations, no updates, broken promises...just tired of it all. Jpop let me off this ride!

#7185 4 years ago

Uh-oh StevenP. You do realize that you're now gonna get sued for breaking the NDA, right?

15
#7186 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Here's where the disconnect is. The 2 titles are mostly complete.

Here's my disconnect. I don't believe you. Sorry, just don't. But it's simple, can be proved with 20 minutes of effort. Mr. I WORK 8 DAYS A WEEK can find 20 minutes.

Post a video, of both games, flipping. Right now. Tuesday night. If they're mostly complete he can do that.

If he doesn't then I assume you're wrong, don't understand that there's a lot more to do and are dazzled by his LSD that he exudes from his sweat.

He's broke, the games have easily a year to go before they're even ready for production, he has no factory, and no money to buy one, it's over. You have to see this. There's no path for him to ride solo on this anymore, if there's even a path at all.

#7187 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

I have been imploring him to publicly show and explain what he has done to date, with lots of pictures and video and audio. So far, he simply won't. It really is frustrating and a shame.

You seem to know him best....please, help us understand the psychology at work here....the big question - "WHY!?!?!" Why does he feel like silence and lack of communication is benefiting him? If there's a Pro and Con list for how he's going about things, what could possibly be in the Pro column? Forget about Pinside for a second...he clearly sees that his own buyers and supporters want communication and answers...they're clearly angry. What could possibly be his reason for continuing in the same manner?

16
#7188 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

You seem to know him best....please, help us understand the psychology at work here....the big question - "WHY!?!?!" Why does he feel like silence and lack of communication is benefiting him? If there's a Pro and Con list for how he's going about things, what could possibly be in the Pro column? Forget about Pinside for a second...he clearly sees that his own buyers and supporters want communication and answers...they're clearly angry. What could possibly be his reason for continuing in the same manner?

Don't even post it publicly! You have people who signed an NDA and are apparently crazy enough to still be following it, even though it's utterly invalidated, and he couldn't afford a lawyer if he wanted to.

Put it on the sekrit blog. Isn't that what people ponied up $20,000 to see? They paid for all the access, Steve is telling us they're practically done, and no one has seen one. It's like a freaking unicorn.

Steve, you know I'm not trying to pick on you here, but what you're saying is insanity. If you're right, and I seriously have trouble believing, but if you are, and he's not posting that for the owners? He's a psychopath. People are ready to <edited> him, they're ready to take him to court, they want to burn things to the ground, and he won't even show them the thing they're paying to see? It's madness.

This is setting aside the fact that both games could be 100% done and he still couldn't build them. Again, I played Predator. Finished game. No one got one in the year it took to drag Kevin down. This isn't about "it's just missing a few toys". Oh, and code. That pesky code. All that, and you're still a long way out from done, and requiring a lot more money than he's already spent. That he doesn't have.

Explain to me how any of this makes any sense, because you still seem to be holding out this thought that he's *so close*.

-1
#7190 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

You seem to know him best....please, help us understand the psychology at work here....the big question - "WHY!?!?!" Why does he feel like silence and lack of communication is benefiting him? If there's a Pro and Con list for how he's going about things, what could possibly be in the Pro column? Forget about Pinside for a second...he clearly sees that his own buyers and supporters want communication and answers...they're clearly angry. What could possibly be his reason for continuing in the same manner?

I wish I had an answer. I am not a psychologist. And I don't get it either. I'm as baffled as anyone else about this. Sorry, I have nuthin'.

As for Aurich's comments above, I know what I saw. I agree that he should definitely put his cards on the table. But I am stating what I saw, all the pieces, printed playfields, MG with all major stuff assembled (in triplicate--3 "full" prototypes) except for a production-quality main plastic ramp assembly. The boardset (cpu/mb, i/o, driver) running a video screen etc. The programming may take a bit of time (I won't guess here) but the components are 95% or so done for MG and maybe 80-85% on RAZA. You can choose not to believe me. I have no control over that. But if you're calling me a liar for stating what I saw with my own eyes, then the burden is on YOU to prove that. And no, I don't live in or near Chiago, so I can';t just film/photograph stuff and post it online.

And this is why I have tended to avoid the crapshow that is Pinside. No good deed goes unpunished....

#7191 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Don't even post it publicly! You have people who signed an NDA and are apparently crazy enough to still be following it, even though it's utterly invalidated, and he couldn't afford a lawyer if he wanted to.
Put it on the sekrit blog. Isn't that what people ponied up $20,000 to see? They paid for all the access, Steve is telling us they're practically done, and no one has seen one. It's like a freaking unicorn.
Steve, you know I'm not trying to pick on you here, but what you're saying is insanity. If you're right, and I seriously have trouble believing, but if you are, and he's not posting that for the owners? He's a psychopath. People are ready to murder him, they're ready to take him to court, they want to burn things to the ground, and he won't even show them the thing they're paying to see? It's madness.
This is setting aside the fact that both games could be 100% done and he still couldn't build them. Again, I played Predator. Finished game. No one got one in the year it took to drag Kevin down. This isn't about "it's just missing a few toys". Oh, and code. That pesky code. All that, and you're still a long way out from done, and requiring a lot more money than he's already spent. That he doesn't have.
Explain to me how any of this makes any sense, because you still seem to be holding out this thought that he's *so close*.

OK, not disagreeing with you here. (You posted this as I was typing above!) And I'll repeat, I have NO explanation for this. And it's frustrating as hell to me. I don't know why. But yes, i saw this stuff in person. MG looked very close to a production game, top and bottom of playfield, plus cabinet. RAZA had a few placeholder toys/mechs (out of many populating the pf.) I've been imploring John to communicate and inform people. I don't know why he still isn't doing this.

#7192 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

But if you're calling me a liar for stating what I saw with my own eyes, then the burden is on YOU to prove that.

Oh I believe he showed you something, I don't think you're a liar. I just don't believe they're close to done. I think it's a facade. People have been walking out his shop talking about how things are *this close* for over a year now. I think it's weaponized aerosol psychedelics in the ventilation system.

But let's just say you're right. Totally dead on.

Games are done! And ... he won't show them to the people who paid for the access. That shouldn't make anyone feel better, that should make them feel angrier. They guy isn't bumbling about, in over his head, instead he's purposefully holding out finished games from you so he can dink around on foam core Alice in Wonderland designs. That's how little he cares about you.

You see how there's no winning this scenario?

#7193 4 years ago

P.S. A few others here have visited the workshop within the past few months. You saw this stuff too, right? I wasn't really hallucinating the whole thing, really....

#7194 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Here's my disconnect. I don't believe you. Sorry, just don't. But it's simple, can be proved with 20 minutes of effort. Mr. I WORK 8 DAYS A WEEK can find 20 minutes.
Post a video, of both games, flipping. Right now. Tuesday night. If they're mostly complete he can do that.
If he doesn't then I assume you're wrong, don't understand that there's a lot more to do and are dazzled by his LSD that he exudes from his sweat.
He's broke, the games have easily a year to go before they're even ready for production, he has no factory, and no money to buy one, it's over. You have to see this. There's no path for him to ride solo on this anymore, if there's even a path at all.

Also, what about programming? Without code even the best DMD games would suck.
Just ask Keefer or Lyman how much work goes into the code for a game to be good.

#7195 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I'm not an artist or a genius nor claim to be, but I think given 5-6 month of 70 hrs of work a week, the time since Expo. I could probably build a shooting pinball machine with ramps and magnet tricks. Basically he's talking about what would be equivalent to a year of 'normal work' When people say they work 36-40 hrs a week, they call that a full time job, so someone working 70 hrs a week is basically working 2 full time jobs.
Now, true my game would not be anything special, but it would be playable. Now take that time and add the 2 years prior John had to lay the groundwork. (if you believe he's working 2 full time jobs, that's 5 years of possible time by a master pinabll builder with 30+ years in the industry, you would expect to see a playable game or three by now).
I'm not saying Ben made it look easy, but Ben destroyed all the "building pinball is hard" excuse doesn't fly. I know it's hard, but John, you are the one that wanted to do it, and you are the one with 30+ years in the industry. If Ben can do it in half the time, I don't know what's keeping John from making his pins.

The ironic thing too, is that Ben was onboard for awhile! Literally.... So not only can we say "Ben could have built it"... literally, he could have been the one building RAZA at least! He left, built another one, and is now building ANOTHER one.

#7196 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

P.S. A few others here have visited the workshop within the past few months. You saw this stuff too, right? I wasn't really hallucinating the whole thing, really....

I've seen stuff

#7197 4 years ago

Excuses, general talk, pics, reveals, blame, etc.......Still doesn't help with any answers to the tougher questions.

I would like a full refund now, please.

Will be interested in buying one later, whenever that might be, when I can play one. Very interested in buying all three, when they come out.

#7198 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

P.S. A few others here have visited the workshop within the past few months. You saw this stuff too, right? I wasn't really hallucinating the whole thing, really....

Everyone saw the MGs in this thread. Looks done except for the ramps. That's progress, but soooo far from being done. He hasn't flipped the game with a real ramp?? WTF?? Seriously, then there's code, music, sounds, light shows, tweaking the whitewood (which can take months, ask Ritchie), etc...then comes manufacturing!!! Ask JJP and Spooky how easy that is. We're not even talking about testing at shows and such how JJP, Spooky, Stern, and even SkitB do! Pipe dream.

Why are you working on RAZA and AIW, JPOP? Get MG playable.

19
#7199 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Everyone saw the MGs in this thread. Looks done except for the ramps.

Who's flipped it?

Who's lifted the playfield, and seen that the parts are real, and wired up?

Who's seen the inserts work?

Who's see the LCD screen interact with the game?

You know what I'm saying? What have we really seen? 3 machines in the background of a video.

How can we know if we're not really just looking at:

this?

Does anything at this stage deserve the benefit of the doubt? Show it flipping, or it's not real. That's what I think.

#7200 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Who's flipped it?
Who's lifted the playfield, and seen that the parts are real, and wired up?
Who's seen the inserts work?
Who's see the LCD screen interact with the game?
You know what I'm saying? What have we really seen? 3 machines in the background of a video.
How can we know if we're not really just looking at:
this?
Does anything at this stage deserve the benefit of the doubt? Show it flipping, or it's not real. That's what I think.

Exactly. I don't see any possible good ending to this. Even if it's 95% designed as a best case scenario (and that's pretty effing far fetched) it's still gotta be built and coded. With no funds everyone is boned.

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