(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#6751 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

It was such a hit, they could hardly give them away when they first came out. But at least there wasn't much of a wait if you wanted one.

My favorite film of all time is Days of Heaven and that film wasn't commercially successful in the slightest when it came out in the late 70's. Now that film is often considered as a masterpiece. Vincent Van Gogh sold one god damn painting in his life so I'm sure his art was terrible. The posterity of something and its initial commercial reception aren't linked at all.

#6752 4 years ago

Did he update any of the timelines yet?

#6753 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

It was such a hit, they could hardly give them away when they first came out. But at least there wasn't much of a wait if you wanted one.

That's really not a fair statement, all games at that time were being closed out including Safecracker, M.M, C.C etc....

#6754 4 years ago
Quoted from musketd:

Did he update any of the timelines yet?

crickets.gif

#6755 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

It was such a hit, they could hardly give them away when they first came out. But at least there wasn't much of a wait if you wanted one.

Please don't forget the code on CV was terrible in 1997 when the game first arrived at arcades. This was also a dying era of pinball prior to Williams closing this division a mere two years later. When Cirqus Voltaire was born, video was killing the pinball star.

Long after Williams ceased production of CV, some brilliant and generous person released the home roms and made this game a classic in my opinion.

The only thing I don't like is some of the video modes which I simply cancel out of by hitting both flipper buttons. I even like the artwork which many people call gay. Another reason people hate it which disturbs me on a different level.

Enough said.

#6756 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Please don't forget the code on CV was terrible in 1997 when the game first arrived at arcades. This was also a dying era of pinball prior to Williams closing this division a mere two years later. When Cirqus Voltaire was born, video was killing the pinball star.
Long after Williams ceased production of CV, some brilliant and generous person released the home roms and made this game a classic in my opinion.
The only thing I don't like is some of the video modes which I simply cancel out of by hitting both flipper buttons. I even like the artwork which many people call gay. Another reason to hate it which disturbs me on a different level.
Enough said.

Just curious, how bad was the CV code prior to the home rom? I own a CV and have the recent home rom which is great but never played one with the old code. What was missing or incomplete?

#6757 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Just curious, how bad what the CV code prior to the home rom? I own a CV and have the recent home rom which is great but never played one with the old code. What was missing or incomplete?

Ouch, that's gonna be a complex answer and I don't feel qualified to respond. Anyone else?

I will only say, don't look back.

#6758 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Just curious, how bad what the CV code prior to the home rom? I own a CV and have the recent home rom which is great but never played one with the old code. What was missing or incomplete?

I'm no expert but for me the big thing about the home ROM was the ability to skip thru the video modes (which are mind numbing)

#6759 4 years ago

I do not have the home roms and the only two problems I have with the game are I don't like the "spot Marvel" feature and When you finish the last phase of the Wizard mode it just rolls over to a new game. It's really the only time you want a lengthy, uninterruptible animation.

#6760 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Just curious, how bad what the CV code prior to the home rom? I own a CV and have the recent home rom which is great but never played one with the old code. What was missing or incomplete?

Lot's of changes between 1.4 and the 2.0 Home Rom. Mostly for the better besides the addition of "Copy Cat" and fewer "Neon Multiballs". Here's some of the changes from the readme.

This is version 2.0H of Cirqus Voltaire. This Home ROM is NOT an official
Williams release, and as such is not supported by that company.

Changes since 1.4:
- The ramp lockup test was NOT clearing the switch status flags when
it started up, this has been fixed.
- If the ramp magnet switch could not start the multiball start LAMP
effect, but the display effect was running, it would re-run the
display effect once the ball reached the lockup. This has been
fixed.
- Starting final mode now cancels the multiple jackpot.
- Shots are ignored just after starting a new final mode phase.
- Shots are ignored just after adding a ball in phase 3 of Join.
- Added additional tilt check in ramp lockup code.
- Added adjustment to install manual eddy boards.
- Ringmaster is no longer down during sideshow, but IS down during
video modes.
- Added adjustment to allow all abort-friendly display effects to be
aborted right from the start of the game.
- Possible to abort most display effects.
- Added adjustment to make Acrobats only spot from made switch on
the ramp (instead of enter).
- Added adjustment to enable the 'old' skill shot. Simple skill shot
runs in tournament mode.
- Added adjustment to enable timed Ringmaster mode.
- Added adjustment to skip first Ringmaster defeat.
- Added adjustment to stop Ringmaster magnet catching the ball after WOW.
- Added Copy-Cat video mode.
- Side-Show lamp effect now masks inlane lamps.
- Neon multiball has a significantly reduced chance of running until
one of the regular multiballs has been played.
- Side show will try not to give out two video type modes in a row.
- Added juggler sneaky lock on left loop.
- Boom Balloon will attempt to lower itself if it registers hits while it
should be down, and the ball is hitting other jets.
- All multiballs can be restarted when quickly starting another
multiball. (On an adjustment which defaults OFF).
- Updated Cirqus Member time-stamp to reference from 2001, and system
clock starts at 2002.
- Created some presets for new adjustments.
- Added 'Early' to game over kickout adjustment - It kicks during
match/hstd processing.
- Added adjustments to stop physical HighWire and Juggler locks.
- New juggler lock and start lamp effects.
- Diverter will switch position when balls in play decreases to 1 to
free jams. (Adjustment sets frequency, or disables)
- Added quick jackpot, lit from side-show.
- Removed pinball hotline and web/email info from attract mode.
- Tweaked the speech for skill shot, Ringmaster and Hat-Trick.
- Hat-Trick and Ringmaster modes now work correctly together.
- Test Report messages regarding disabled hardware will only show
up in Test mode .. Stopping DOT on home games.
- BackBox Luck switch will not be marked bad if the backbox is disabled.
(However it will still show up in the test report if it is bad.)
- 'Load Cannon' award on the outlanes has been modified to give
lower points.
- Game restart is now correctly handled during Side Show.
- Added delay to Boom Balloon timer so background display effect
shows starting time.
- Added feature adjustment to disable timed spot-marvel (off the
inlane).
- Added 'Clear Hardware Errors' utility.
- Spot Marvel disabled while no marvels can be spotted.
- Timed spot marvels (off the inlane) are not lit at all if no
remaining marvels can be spotted.
- Added music and speech when Join The Cirqus is ready.
- Added new Join The Cirqus phase 'Acrobats Spin': Player must score
100 spins to win. Target spins set by new Feature Adjustment.
- Added second Join The Cirqus phase: Player must score 3 million
points (from roving hurry-ups) to win. Final score set by new Feature
Adjustments.
- New Cirqus phases played second time player reaches Join. Added new
adjustment to set this.
- Add ball/score to background display effect of phase 2 of Join
The Cirqus.
- Join The Cirqus intro display effects can be aborted at ball-start
and the second (or more) time through.
- Skill Shot lit at ball start, during Join The Cirqus to advance the
mode. Ball is held during intro effects (which can be aborted).
- Timer adjustments for Kangaroo Video mode and Cannon Fire Mode
can be set to 'OFF' to disable these modes.
- If all marvels except the Acrobats Marvel have been awarded, but
the Acrobats mode is active, then that marvel will be spotted.
- Added pause feature to the coin-door. Opening the door disables
the flippers, stops mode timers, and starts a ball saver (2 seconds
for each ball in play). Balls are re-launched once the door is closed.
- Fixed some small glitches in the ball lock and multiball start
lamp effects.
- Removed 'Player One' speech during single player games. Ball serve
speech only plays 5 times.
- Modified Backbox disabled adjustment so that the time between kicks
can also be set. Changed adjustment text to "BBOX. KICK DELAY".
- Added more compensation logic to Highwire ramp: lock (or multiball)
will be awarded if no scoring occurs 5 seconds after the ramp magnet
releases the ball. This is so the player receives the correct lock/
multiball sequence even if a lockup switch is failing.
- Improved Ringmaster Battle logic.
- Diverter remains unenergized for several seconds after the wire-ramp
enter switch.
- Added feature adjustment 'QUICK ARC MBALL.'. When set YES, the ball
will NOT be stopped on the ramp magnet when Strike An Arc Multiball
is started along with a Highwire Multiball lock (or start).

#6761 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Please don't forget the code on CV was terrible in 1997 when the game first arrived at arcades. This was also a dying era of pinball prior to Williams closing this division a mere two years later. When Cirqus Voltaire was born, video was killing the pinball star.
Long after Williams ceased production of CV, some brilliant and generous person released the home roms and made this game a classic in my opinion.
The only thing I don't like is some of the video modes which I simply cancel out of by hitting both flipper buttons. I even like the artwork which many people call gay. Another reason to hate it which disturbs me on a different level.
Enough said.

Thank Cameron Silver. He worked on the code. I beta-tested v2.0h, and it was a fun experience.

In theory, 'JPOP' had nothing to do with that. Cameron used what sounds and animations were already in the ROM and just not utilized, and made improvements to the gameplay.

#6762 4 years ago

There's a good topcast interview with Cameron. Very cool story how get got started at Williams. From what I understand cv code (original & home ROM) is all him.

#6763 4 years ago

Wow, it blows my mind to read all that was added/changed to the original code. Big props to the guys who took on that project. Makes you appreciate the hobby more when you know how much effort is put back into the games from hobbyists.

I love CV.

#6764 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

That's really not a fair statement, all games at that time were being closed out including Safecracker, M.M, C.C etc....

Yeah it would have been the best time in history to be buying pinball machines. I heard about a guy who got 3 NIB CVs for $800 each on closeout from a distributor. May or may not be true, but that's just what I heard second hand.

#6765 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

That's really not a fair statement, all games at that time were being closed out including Safecracker, M.M, C.C etc....

I think it's fair enough. My statement was a response to someone claiming greatest pinball ever. Which none of these closeouts are.

#6766 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

greatest pinball ever

That would be an EM, right?

#6767 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

That would be an EM, right?

Well, the one you sent me was pretty nice.

#6768 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

video was killing the pinball star.

I see your reference here

Quoted from Mr68:

That would be an EM, right?

Yep. Fireball!!

#6769 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

That's really not a fair statement, all games at that time were being closed out including Safecracker, M.M, C.C etc....

Well MM sold out. I had to pay close to $3500 (people thought I was nuts). I did get CV and NGG for $1800 and $2100 however... those were the days. Still have them all also.

MB and then CC never went on closeout. I bought MB at full price and both had such small runs that a closeout was never needed.

I agree CV was pretty painful when it was first released... having to wait through endless animations and constant ball hangups were NOT fun. In fact Williams had to put out an "official" kit of clear plastics to eliminate the PF problems. So JPop didn't quite do his job here...

But then the home roms arrived and it did indeed become a keeper. We all thanked CS profusely after that

#6770 4 years ago

Speaking of CV 2.0H, when are we going to see ToTAN 2.0?

Yet another casualty of the jpop flameout. Bummer!

#6771 4 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Speaking of CV 2.0H, when are we going to see ToTAN 2.0?

Never. Leave me my unbalanced scoring and multiball exploits, OK? It's the only way to get a half-decent score on that thing.

On the other hand, a total overhaul from the ground up with reworked rules and score balancing could be great.

If someone does do it, please, please, PLEASE put in a ball return when the shooting star cage fails during multiball.

#6772 4 years ago

What year was CV home code done?

#6773 4 years ago

Popaduik is the definition of style over substance.

#6774 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

What year was CV home code done?

Early-mid 2000's. I'm thinking 2005 or 2006, but I don't have ay date-proof in my files.

#6775 4 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Early-mid 2000's. I'm thinking 2005 or 2006, but I don't have ay date-proof in my files.

The date on the 2.0 readme is 4/15/2002. So almost exactly 13 years ago.

#6776 4 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

The date on the 2.0 readme is 4/15/2002. So almost exactly 13 years ago.

Okay, that sounds right. That means that I had my second CV during that time. (And that then also means Ted did his 9.4H TZ in '05 or '06 then..)

#6777 4 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Speaking of CV 2.0H, when are we going to see ToTAN 2.0?
Yet another casualty of the jpop flameout. Bummer!

This was in very early discussion when Rick first mentioned it at Texas. Even I was unaware of all the other projects John had on his plate at the time. We have ToTAN right next to Funhouse in our shop. So its still on the list of projects, but it is not in heavy development at the moment.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#6778 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

This was in very early discussion when Rick first mentioned it at Texas. Even I was unaware of all the other projects John had on his plate at the time. We have ToTAN right next to Funhouse in our shop. So its still on the list of projects, but it is not in heavy development at the moment.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Oh, that wasn't the answer I was expecting. Does this mean that this project could move forward without John? If so, there could still be some hope it might happen. If it needs John, no chance.

#6779 4 years ago

It looks like there will always be people out there to finish unfinished projects...

#6780 4 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Oh, that wasn't the answer I was expecting. Does this mean that this project could move forward without John? If so, there could still be some hope it might happen. If it needs John, no chance.

I believe (and could be wrong) having John involved was a potential 'perk' of the project, not a requirement.

JPop would have no claim to WMS code or assets either way - consulting him would be more a sales move for PPS than anything else imo. Having the original designer give input on CV/TotAN V2.0 is certainly more marketable than bringing on random coders or hobbyists to implement their vision.

Er, let me rephrase: Having the original designer give input on CV/TotAN V2.0 WAS certainly more marketable than bringing on random coders or hobbyists to implement their vision. Now, I think the opposite may hold true

#6781 4 years ago

I thought the only reason John was even going to involved was because he had some toy or mech he wanted to add to the game. No idea how that would work, practically speaking. But let's be honest, Rick wants to sell remakes, not kits for old games.

11
#6782 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

But let's be honest, Rick wants to sell remakes, not kits for old games.

Rick wants to sell whatever will make him money, including "kits for old games".

#6783 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

This was in very early discussion when Rick first mentioned it at Texas. Even I was unaware of all the other projects John had on his plate at the time. We have ToTAN right next to Funhouse in our shop. So its still on the list of projects, but it is not in heavy development at the moment.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Aaron is Funhouse 2.0 getting done? If so how close are you

#6784 4 years ago

Sorry to get off topic , just heard so many rumors can you kill them. Then we can get back to bashing John.....sorry John

#6785 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Aaron is Funhouse 2.0 getting done? If so how close are you

Already discussed in another thread, nothing has happened with it yet.

#6786 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

I believe (and could be wrong) having John involved was a potential 'perk' of the project, not a requirement.
JPop would have no claim to WMS code or assets either way - consulting him would be more a sales move for PPS than anything else imo. Having the original designer give input on CV/TotAN V2.0 is certainly more marketable than bringing on random coders or hobbyists to implement their vision.
Er, let me rephrase: Having the original designer give input on CV/TotAN V2.0 WAS certainly more marketable than bringing on random coders or hobbyists to implement their vision. Now, I think the opposite may hold true

That was the thought, that it would be fun to work with an original designer and bring out features that didn't make the cut, if possible. But working with the original designers was not required. Unfortunately with both the parties that were interested/eager to be involved at one point with ToTAN 2.0 and Funhouse 2.0 being a bit wrapped up in other business at the moment, there has been very little development on either.

The rest of us have been discussing how we want to move these projects forward. But for right now at least, everyone is sort of putting new projects on pause to focus on what we can control and make solid progress on. Mission Pinball is working towards their 1.0 software release and we (FAST) are getting hardware ready for full release. With both of these milestones behind us, it should be much easier to focus on new projects. Besides, times have changed. We have seen that there is nothing to be gained from talking about what you are working on. We want to show real development when it makes sense. it's just better that way.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#6787 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I thought the only reason John was even going to involved was because he had some toy or mech he wanted to add to the game.

I've heard this too and I can only see adding on to the TOTAN playfield as a very bad idea. In the end not everyone would agree if the new and improved rule set would be better than what we have now. It's important that we should be able to switch back and forth between new and old rules.

#6788 4 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

I've heard this too and I can only see adding on to the TOTAN playfield as a very bad idea. In the end not everyone would agree if the new and improved rule set would be better than what we have now. It's important that we should be able to switch back and forth between new and old rules.

Of course. Playing "classic" game is a essential for a 2.0 release.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#6790 4 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Life's little coincidences..

Please expand further on your now spamming of that clever image screen capture between the two separate threads.

#6791 4 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

There's a good topcast interview with Cameron. Very cool story how get got started at Williams. From what I understand cv code (original & home ROM) is all him.

The CV update to v2.0 rates as one of the greatest things done in my view along with lymans own time updates to Stern Spiderman. These updates were all created purely by the programmer.

It's also worth watching the tilt video to see what happens when a project is run in secret without being able to share ideas, test concepts with colleagues (swep1) and how Cameron felt about it

#6792 4 years ago

I forgot who mentioned it here, but someone said they are a senior programmer with lot's of experience. I would like to ask how much it would cost to get a code done, for example, creating a new code for TOTAN. I think the CV code was fueled by passion, but how much would something like that cost?

#6793 4 years ago

$$$. Depends on how much time is needed and how complex the new features are. I'd charge ~$20K+ for a complete Totan overhall personally. Again, depends on what needs to be added, hardware already in place, software already in place, etc...

#6794 4 years ago

My guess $30k

#6795 4 years ago

That's a lot of hours..

#6796 4 years ago

I've done a lot of scoping for code, and couldn't put a number on it without seeing some kind of scope/functional spec.

Lots of variables in the pricing, just a few are:

- What does the API for the hardware look like? Is it written yet?
- Are all the game rules and logic mapped out yet? (And not just in JPops head)
- Are all the art assets complete?

That said, my guess is:
00475431.jpg

#6797 4 years ago
Quoted from Redeyes:

That's a lot of hours..

A complete overhaul.... Gotta assume it'll take at least 2 to 3 months of time to do it right. Good programmer's ain't cheap.

#6798 4 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

When it comes to making PinGames JPOP doesn't fuck around!

Um...not?

#6799 4 years ago
Quoted from Redeyes:

That's a lot of hours..

Yep its assembler old 6809 programming

#6800 4 years ago

Very interesting stuff. Nice to get an idea of how much the coding by itself would cost. This is just on the dmd's ($20k+), must be double that for the new Jersey Jack machines no?

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