(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#5051 4 years ago

Can we get an update on the status of FAST and their efforts with John?

#5052 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Total cash: $1,425,000
Annual cost of studio: $100,000
Annual Employees (Artists/John): $80,000
Annual Computer/software/equipment: $5,000
$185k * 4 years = $740k
Capital assets over the 4 yrs (machinery, tools, furniture & equipment)
Ball park another $35k
Used in the above: $775k/$1,425k

I've never been to John's studio, but I've heard it's huge and full of cool gear. CNC machines etc. I'd say your ball park for tools and equipment is probably low.

#5053 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

EXPO 2015: THE RECKONING!

Seriously - if Jpop or SkitB show their faces at this one...shit could get UGLY.

Why wait? MGC is coming up...

#5054 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I've never been to John's studio, but I've heard it's huge and full of cool gear. CNC machines etc. I'd say your ball park for tools and equipment is probably low.

Yeah I wanted to use an absolute minimum. And if using that minimum assumes he's buying everything at garage sales and liquidation auctions still makes things look bad, the true situation is much worse.

#5055 4 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Can we get an update on the status of FAST and their efforts with John?

I don't think the FAST thing is going to happen.

#5056 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

$7k worth of LED's at COST

That's a boatload of LEDs for a few prototype games.

#5057 4 years ago

At one point, Zidware was buying production quantity parts for both MG and RAZA. That's about the point in time where the trouble started.

#5058 4 years ago
Quoted from GLModular:

Why wait? MGC is coming up...

I think if John shows up at any major show before giving the people who have money into the games any real time frame update on when you will be seeing your games, he is asking for a confrontation in a public setting. One that will most likely not be pretty.

If he does show with out any update, especially to advertise his company or games, dude has waaaaaaay bigger balls than I have. I'd be worried that if I had over a million dollars of peoples money and I had not delivered the goods that said money had purchased that I'd all of a sudden find Chris Tucker standing over me doing this.....

#5059 4 years ago
Quoted from 6S3NC3:

Get money back? haha. I had to bail after my first payment due to Hurricane Sandy and John never sent me my refundable deposit back. I have called and emailed many times. As far as im concerned I’m still on the project bc he has my deposit. Everyone getting their money back? That’s a good one.

You had grabbed my spot after I bailed. I remember your posts talking about getting out after the hurricane. I didn't realize that you never got a refund. That's bad enough, but even worse under those circumstances.

#5060 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

I have priced flights and looked into filing and suing him myself, but I didn't want to start a run on the bank

I'm guessing that most owners don't want to see a run on the bank. Yet, behind the scenes, quietly, I bet a lot of owners have requested a refund. Undoubtedly without a response. So chances are that a run on the bank has already occurred.

#5061 4 years ago
Quoted from GLModular:

At one point, Zidware was buying production quantity parts for both MG and RAZA. That's about the point in time where the trouble started.

How long ago was that?

#5062 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

I said it before and I'll say it again... as an auditor and accountant I see this often. When vendors aren't getting paid, assistants are released for no reason, and an owner/manager stops paying themselves, there is no money left in the business.

This is the only conclusion.

#5063 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

EXPO 2015: THE RECKONING!
Seriously - if Jpop or SkitB show their faces at this one...shit could get UGLY.

Strikes me as an opportunity for one or both to raise the needed capital. Set up a dunking both and make it $5 a throw, or go for the big money and set up a boxing ring and let folks take swings at them for $50 for two minutes. Bet there would be a long line.

Quoted from toyotaboy:

can be a budget machine at

Not my impression that Jpop is budget conscious as far as equipment, etc.

While the $100K seems high, the $1500/month seems low. Four 10x10 storage lockers in Chicago run me a $1000 month (with limited power, etc.) and that is cheap by Chicago standards.

#5064 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

This is the only conclusion.

I think there's still hope that there is a big pile of cash because JPOP has the kook factor that breaks the norm.. I.e., the Scrooge McDuck angle i personally feel is still viable. The first story of not paying a helper on MG I heard when BHZA was announced. So either he was out of money way back then, OR this is just his MO. The whole putting the translate away at expo cause people got cameras out was the biggest flag for me that the guy has some serious issues.

#5065 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Since we are at this stage now after 4 years and its basically F it, trying to be open and honest I'll share the conversation I had with Chris at Cointaker.
He's a really good dude and I think has contributed a lot to helping John and his "lighting" development. No charge for that of course.
Then over time Chris has sent approx. $7k worth of LED's at COST and John has simply not paid him to date despite promises to do so.
Now Chris didn't ask me to keep this off the record so I'm putting it out there for what it's worth. I'll report it, you decide.
Since I can't get an answer to the many questions that you guys and I both have I'll just have to fill in my own blanks.
Wouldn't it stand to reason that if John won't pay Chris $7k, for an "integral" part of the team and especially RAZA ("Cointaker versions), its either one of two things:
1) He really has spent most of the $$$ OR
2) He really is just that DUMB when it comes to business and getting shit done because you would have to really be STUPID to keep burning vendor bridges, customer bridges etc. IF you have the funds to pay people to help you get shit done and don't use the funds, then I'm just baffled.
My feeling is he has spent the last two years diddling around looking for an investor to drop out of the sky.
Just recently, "production was going to begin on MG in the first of March".....
The lack of honesty and transparency is destroying both John and Kevin imo.

Some people eventually see what others see.

You just can't believe everything you hear and see from pinball manufacturers, IMHO.

#5066 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

How long ago was that?

Around May, 2013.

-1
#5067 4 years ago

Sucks to hear cointaker got left in the wind.
I do want them to release the Spinz flashers for sale they and Jpop developed.
I'd order about 20-30 of them.

#5068 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Since we are at this stage now after 4 years and its basically F it, trying to be open and honest I'll share the conversation I had with Chris at Cointaker.
He's a really good dude and I think has contributed a lot to helping John and his "lighting" development. No charge for that of course.
Then over time Chris has sent approx. $7k worth of LED's at COST and John has simply not paid him to date despite promises to do so.
Now Chris didn't ask me to keep this off the record so I'm putting it out there for what it's worth. I'll report it, you decide.
Since I can't get an answer to the many questions that you guys and I both have I'll just have to fill in my own blanks.
Wouldn't it stand to reason that if John won't pay Chris $7k, for an "integral" part of the team and especially RAZA ("Cointaker versions), its either one of two things:
1) He really has spent most of the $$$ OR
2) He really is just that DUMB when it comes to business and getting shit done because you would have to really be STUPID to keep burning vendor bridges, customer bridges etc. IF you have the funds to pay people to help you get shit done and don't use the funds, then I'm just baffled.
My feeling is he has spent the last two years diddling around looking for an investor to drop out of the sky.
Just recently, "production was going to begin on MG in the first of March".....
The lack of honesty and transparency is destroying both John and Kevin imo.

Damn this post about the cash and vendors looks amazingly similar to a PM from last night.
I'm really glad/relieved you posted this though.
Most of you probably don't know that this cointaker news isn't new to everybody. Nothing has been publicly said about it out of politeness concerning airing others dirty laundry. More specifically, publicly talking about Chris' business.
I think now we need full disclosure, to show everybody what a piece of shit John is, whether he has any cash left or not. And I don't want to hear any crap about oh John is so sensitive, we have to walk on egg shells around him. That's part of the problem that got us where we are today.

I know he never intentionally set out to rip people off, but at this point it really doesn't matter if he had. I've seen so many scams from my dealings on high end video games and let me tell you guys he has been following the playbook to a T. Lie, stall, always talk in circles so your lies don't come back to bite you in the ass, rinse and repeat.
In every situation I have seen, it takes a group of people getting together to compare stories to start getting the truth out there, which is what has finally started to take place.
I've been in the same frame of mind as ykpinballer. None of this has financially added up for a long time.
How ironic how John was going to usher in a new era of pinball and as it turns out he has been more detrimental to pinball and the community than anything ever before.

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#5069 4 years ago
Quoted from Shrub_Light:

How ironic how John was going to usher in a new era of pinball and as it turns out he has been more detrimental to pinball and the community than anything ever before.

I can't think of how to say this without being really dickish, so just excuse my bluntness:

I think a lot (most?) of people kind of expected this one to fail. It was just too mad scientist, too weirdly limited, too expensive, too shrouded in secrecy.

I don't think a failure at this point, if that's indeed what we've reached, is really as big a disaster as what's going on with Skit-B and Predator. I mean, it sucks for everyone who paid Jpop for sure, but I don't see him dragging down boutique pinball. Just maybe the segment that's about hugely expensive and very limited projects.

Kevin's lies and deceit are much more evil. Larger scope, more modest goals, it was "pinball for the people", and now it looks like it's going down in flames, and badly.

I'd argue that's the more painful blow, in the bigger picture.

Either way, trusting these models where you pay up years ahead of time is hopefully a thing of the past, it's just a recipe for tears. If you want to build a pin, then do it, on your dime. Don't sell anyone anything until that at least is done.

#5070 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

You had grabbed my spot after I bailed. I remember your posts talking about getting out after the Hurricane. I didn't realize that you never got a refund. That's bad enough, but even worse under those circumstances.

You have a good memory RobT.

#5071 4 years ago

http://www.pinball.com.au/special-products/steve-ritchie-interview-part-1/

I think the comments in this interview apply more than ever.
edit:
STEVE: Oh, World Cup. World Cup was taken over.
MARK: It wasn’t a bad pin, it’s still all right, actually we still operate it.
STEVE: In the end it turned out to be pretty Ok, but in the beginning it was handled by a newbie. The game designer was a stubborn newbie, and it had to be taken over by someone else.

#5072 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Kevin's lies and deceit are much more evil.

I think you are forgetting a lot of JPop's lies as well. They are a similar stripe, but Kevin was promising something in a tempting price range so may have gotten more people who can't afford to lose the money.

#5073 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

I think you are forgetting a lot of JPop's lies as well. They are a similar stripe, but Kevin was promising something in a tempting price range so may have gotten more people who can't afford to lose the money.

I think that is the difference between the 2. Look at how many predator buyers were buying their first nib. I won't be happy losing my money but there is a difference in buyers between the 2 projects.

#5074 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I can't think of how to say this without being really dickish, so just excuse my bluntness:
I think a lot (most?) of people kind of expected this one to fail. It was just too mad scientist, too weirdly limited, too expensive, too shrouded in secrecy.
I don't think a failure at this point, if that's indeed what we've reached, is really as big a disaster as what's going on with Skit-B and Predator. I mean, it sucks for everyone who paid Jpop for sure, but I don't see him dragging down boutique pinball. Just maybe the segment that's about hugely expensive and very limited projects.
Kevin's lies and deceit are much more evil. Larger scope, more modest goals, it was "pinball for the people", and now it looks like it's going down in flames, and badly.
I'd argue that's the more painful blow, in the bigger picture.
Either way, trusting these models where you pay up years ahead of time is hopefully a thing of the past, it's just a recipe for tears. If you want to build a pin, then do it, on your dime. Don't sell anyone anything until that at least is done.

I'm not taking your comment as dickish, so no worries there. In fact I would normally agree with you about this project failing except I, like others have said, felt this would be the project to succeed due to John's prior experience.
As for the secrecy part. It wasn't supposed to be that way for the owners! Part of the sales pitch was that we would be part of the entire process every step of the way.
Normally I would have never considered doing a pre-order. This was supposed to be my "one and done" NIB purchase. I bet on the wrong horse, which really adds insult to injury for me because I'm the type of person that rarely even buys lotto tickets.
I didn't even take the Skit-B game into consideration because honestly I had no idea what was going on in that camp. I'm to wrapped up in my misery over this to even want to read more bad news for the people in on Predator. I made my own assumption a while ago that they didn't have the rights to produce what they have been showing, but never really knew if it was a correct assumption.
This whole fiasco has definitely left me bitter, even if I would get my game or preferably a refund. Others have also said the same and I'm sure the Predator people feel equally the same. It doesn't matter to me if it's 17 grand or 500 bucks, it's too much money to piss away.

#5075 4 years ago
Quoted from Shrub_Light:

I'm not taking your comment as dickish, so no worries there. In fact I would normally agree with you about this project failing except I, like others have said, felt this would be the project to succeed due to John's prior experience.

The problem is people not understanding the reality of his experience.

His best games were made as a designer with a full fledged support team, computer hardware, parts, musicians, programmers - and a full fledged manufacturing factory.

Without that infrastructure, he has never proven he was capable of making a pinball machine....post Williams he had Zizzle games and a shitty iPhone app. Plus, the economics of the project never made sense. He took advantage of pinheads throwing money around during "Rare Pinball Fever" (MM, MB, AFM, BBB, TronLE, ACDC BIBLE, etc) without any realistic manufacturing gameplan.

10
#5076 4 years ago

Don't worry, I'm sure his lawyer will show up any day now and tell everyone that everything is fine.

#5077 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

While the $100K seems high, the $1500/month seems low. Four 10x10 storage lockers in Chicago run me a $1000 month (with limited power, etc.) and that is cheap by Chicago standards

Buffalo grove is high in general, city isn't much better. Streamwood is remarkably cheap ($1.16/sq ft). here's one for $1600/month nearby Zidware for 1400 sq feet (granted JPOP's warehouse may be twice this size), even at $3k/month that's still only $36k/year in rent.
http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite/Listing/Profile/Profile.aspx?LID=18997593&LinkCode=31653&FromPPPP=true

#5078 4 years ago
Quoted from Honch:

Don't worry, I'm sure his lawyer will show up any day now and tell everyone that everything is fine.

And that there's a waiting list!!!

#5079 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Buffalo grove is high in general, city isn't much better.

My storage units are in west Loop, not BG.

Not sure that listing is typical of that area, not that it matters. John probably has 5 times that amount of space -- again, not that it really matters.

#5080 4 years ago
Quoted from Shrub_Light:

Normally I would have never considered doing a pre-order. This was supposed to be my "one and done" NIB purchase. I bet on the wrong horse, which really adds insult to injury for me because I'm the type of person that rarely even buys lotto tickets.

Big time Ditto's !!!! dead on !! this is exactly how I feel

#5081 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

The problem is people not understanding the reality of his experience.
His best games were made as a designer with a full fledged support team, computer hardware, parts, musicians, programmers - and a full fledged manufacturing factory.
Without that infrastructure, he has never proven he was capable of making a pinball machine....post Williams he had Zizzle games and a shitty iPhone app. Plus, the economics of the project never made sense. He took advantage of pinheads throwing money around during "Rare Pinball Fever" (MM, MB, AFM, BBB, TronLE, ACDC BIBLE, etc) without any realistic manufacturing gameplan.

Exactly! So with his experience he should, should mind you, know what he needed to get outsourced, hire people to do for him, etc.
Also according to what he has told us, he does have a manufacturing game plan. It's just nobody added in the nutball factor and the probable cash burn.

#5082 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

There's a waiting list!!!

We got 5000 wanna be comedians on this forum but that right there got a good laugh out of me.

Edit: Better add kudos for this one too.

Quoted from Honch:

Don't worry, I'm sure his lawyer will show up any day now and tell everyone that everything is fine.

#5083 4 years ago

After the expo fiasco with the empty cabinets, he wrote a letter to everyone and mentioned his difficulties concerning "others in the business".

I once theorized that it might be Stern playing hardball, but I now see that Popaduik has a bad reputation which spread through word of mouth, and that he is too delusional to see that he is his own worst enemy.

And I quote him (from last October):

"Pinball unfortunately is a “cut-throat” business for those behind the curtain. I have been threatened, stolen from and otherwise been hindered at many junctures from others in the business. My lawyer and I are amazed."

#5084 4 years ago

Yep, all his problems are caused by other people.

#5085 4 years ago
Quoted from GLModular:

Well I'm glad you put that out there, Ice. It was the conversations I had with Chris and the programmer that really led me to having to air out the non-payment issues with Zidware.
The scary thought is, there may be others.

Well I wanted to put it out there to express my frustration and just getting the truth out there. Pull the whole scab off.

In NO way was I trying to imply that Chris was complaining or hates John or anything. They are friends and the whole thing is unfortunate. I shouldn't have aired that part, emotions got to me

I will also like to say I'm sorry if comments came across the other day that I was being disrespectful to prior vendors as quiters. Lord knows we all know you guys deserve the Medal of Honor for putting up with John, really a good guy, just a total flake and paranoid control freak.

And that's ok if you have help, everybody has strengths and weaknesses! To be successful you gotta recognize what you do well and delegate what you don't.

The poor guy needs some serious business help and people to tell him the truth

#5086 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I can't think of how to say this without being really dickish, so just excuse my bluntness:
I think a lot (most?) of people kind of expected this one to fail. It was just too mad scientist, too weirdly limited, too expensive, too shrouded in secrecy.
I don't think a failure at this point, if that's indeed what we've reached, is really as big a disaster as what's going on with Skit-B and Predator. I mean, it sucks for everyone who paid Jpop for sure, but I don't see him dragging down boutique pinball. Just maybe the segment that's about hugely expensive and very limited projects.
Kevin's lies and deceit are much more evil. Larger scope, more modest goals, it was "pinball for the people", and now it looks like it's going down in flames, and badly.
I'd argue that's the more painful blow, in the bigger picture.
Either way, trusting these models where you pay up years ahead of time is hopefully a thing of the past, it's just a recipe for tears. If you want to build a pin, then do it, on your dime. Don't sell anyone anything until that at least is done.

Spot on again, I can admit in hindsight it was a stupid move. That's ok, won't be the last one I ever make. And I knew and accepted all along that I could lose money, so what, what really sucks is having to lose a case of beer on a Jpop bet to RD and possibly having to admit that Rare and Rob were right this time!

#5087 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I can't think of how to say this without being really dickish, so just excuse my bluntness:
I think a lot (most?) of people kind of expected this one to fail. It was just too mad scientist, too weirdly limited, too expensive, too shrouded in secrecy.
I don't think a failure at this point, if that's indeed what we've reached, is really as big a disaster as what's going on with Skit-B and Predator. I mean, it sucks for everyone who paid Jpop for sure, but I don't see him dragging down boutique pinball. Just maybe the segment that's about hugely expensive and very limited projects.
Kevin's lies and deceit are much more evil. Larger scope, more modest goals, it was "pinball for the people", and now it looks like it's going down in flames, and badly.
I'd argue that's the more painful blow, in the bigger picture.

I personally don't see a huge difference in scale between 250 predators and 125-50-ish JPOP Games. Sure, JPOP's are more expensive, and thus has presumably a wealthier client list, but either company failing will be pretty devastating, and any one failing greatly increases the likelihood of the other to fail. I don't think it's a coincidence that after Kevin released his "Not the license I thought I had" letter and that thread turned 100X more pessimistic, that the recent optimism in this thread almost completely evaporated at the same time. You can't let a rabbit shit in your cocoa puffs and still expect to enjoy your breakfast (Eddie Schtulman excluded).

This Hobby is a closed ecosystem. You burn 125 or 250 buyers, that has repercussions throughout the entire hobby. You can't just burn up a million dollars of pinball pre-order money playing pretend pinball manufacturer and not cause lasting harm. How many other projects and companies will now suffer because no one wants to trust an indie anymore, even if they do finance development on their own dime? Will other pre-order projects that might make it experience a run on the bank after this? How many people will get fed up with this hobby and take their disposable income to some other hobby?

I agree with you, I think no new company going forward will be able to get away with the interest free financing afforded to these early boutiques, and I think that is a good thing. But in a scenario where JPOP implodes and SkitB's games somehow get made, I don't think the hobby is better off because only a supposedly richer customer base gets burned.

#5088 4 years ago
Quoted from Shrub_Light:

Exactly! So with his experience he should, should mind you, know what he needed to get outsourced, hire people to do for him, etc.
Also according to what he has told us, he does have a manufacturing game plan. It's just nobody added in the nutball factor and the probable cash burn.

This is why I bet on Zidware. I didn't know about John's bad reputation, if it was bad back then, and I figured he would know better than most how much is involved in making a pinball machine.

#5089 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I can't think of how to say this without being really dickish, so just excuse my bluntness:
I think a lot (most?) of people kind of expected this one to fail. It was just too mad scientist, too weirdly limited, too expensive, too shrouded in secrecy.

John really presented a polished sales/owners package. NDAs, schedules, big contract. This wasn't at all like Predator sending money to a paypal account in the ether somewhere.

I definitely bought into his Williams pedigree, which he was puffing out for full effect. There was the promo/concept video which even that was nice.

I can honestly say I had not considered for 1 second that I might never get my game. The only thing I was worried about was the NOW OR NEVER option, that if I didn't buy in I'd lose my chance (at a price I'd be willing to pay).

I talked to John, he told me his MG prototypes were almost done and he'd have those finished by Spring '13. I knew MG was a key factor, there is no RAZA without MG, but he convinced me that everything was on course.

I can't remember when, but after a while the blog continued to show stuff that was "concept", he was still exploring ideas when things should be final. Then the original release date of Q4 2013 came and went and we never even had a machine to look at.

I had followed WOZ, and as delayed as it was, Jack was out there at shows, people were playing it, it was getting mixed reviews at the time from being so early but at least there was a machine.

Today we still don't even have that.

#5090 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Yep, all his problems are caused by other people.

Reminds me of quote: "The common denominator in all your failed relationships is you". Its supposed to be a joke

I dont think stern or other boogy men give a shit what john is doing.. Any slights against him are in his head.. He's probably confusing intent to harm him with lack of accommodation/patience

#5091 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

The problem is people not understanding the reality of his experience.
His best games were made as a designer with a full fledged support team, computer hardware, parts, musicians, programmers - and a full fledged manufacturing factory.
Without that infrastructure, he has never proven he was capable of making a pinball machine....post Williams he had Zizzle games and a shitty iPhone app. Plus, the economics of the project never made sense. He took advantage of pinheads throwing money around during "Rare Pinball Fever" (MM, MB, AFM, BBB, TronLE, ACDC BIBLE, etc) without any realistic manufacturing gameplan.

And he had somebody setting deadlines and making sure shit got done in a timely manner.

#5092 4 years ago
Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

he wrote a letter to everyone and mentioned his difficulties concerning "others in the business".

I once theorized that it might be Stern playing hardball

I know that Churchill has a contract with Stern, and they can't do business with other companies because of it. But that's not an excuse, there are dozens of cabinet makers out there, and I don't see charlie or Jersey Jack having issues getting cabinets and shipping pins.

#5093 4 years ago

Well Greg, how did Ben and Charlie get it done?

In fact, Ben was part of the original game and team. Thanks for bailing out Ben!

#5094 4 years ago

Cabinets seem to be the one thing he's got under control.

The one thing he doesn't have is a final hardware/software system. But I guess it was the programmer's fault for leaving him, had nothing to do with John (not paying him), all part of the conspiracy.

#5095 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Well Greg, how did Ben and Charlie get it done?
In fact, Ben was part of the original game and team. Thanks for bailing out Ben!

I think they were generally more realistic in terms of their game - DMD, no plastic ramps, lots of stock parts, etc. Gave themselves deadlines & stuck to them. They had a flippable whitewood before they got to art. They didn't spend years on art. And...BEN! Ben not just a mad scientist in his head - he's incredibly productive and multi-talented....and he'd already built a few games on his own.

There are probably some more reasons they pulled it off- but those are the ones off the top of my head.

#5096 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

I agree with you, I think no new company going forward will be able to get away with the interest free financing afforded to these early boutiques, and I think that is a good thing. But in a scenario where JPOP implodes and SkitB's games somehow get made, I don't think the hobby is better off because only a supposedly richer customer base gets burned.

To be clear I wasn't saying "welp, the rich people can afford it, lol!"

I just meant that John's vision was always a bit pie in the sky. Very few people could make the pitch he was and get away with it.

Skit-B though kind of represented "obtainable" pinball. The whole homebrew, anyone could do this if they just try thing. Not crazy expensive, and a bit of a model that seemed more realistic.

It's not a good thing that either would fail. But I feel like Skit-B's failure could have a bigger impact on the future of boutique pinball.

Frankly I'd rather that both projects somehow made it, and that at the very least people were able to get most of their money back. But it feels like we're reaching a tipping point there.

#5097 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It's not a good thing that either would fail. But I feel like Skit-B's failure could have a bigger impact on the future of boutique pinball.

Not sure if I agree with that.

How is Kevin, who is nothing more than a pinball hobbyist like the rest of us on this forum, failing at making and delivering a sub $5k pinball machine out of his garage, more of a negative impact on the future of boutique pinball vs a very well known pinball designer, who made some of the highest ranked pins ever while working for B/W and has a high level of pinball experience and cashed in on his reputation by asking $18k and $10k also failing?

Seems to me that logic would have said Kevin would be much less likely to be able to come through than JPop.

Quoted from Aurich:

rankly I'd rather that both projects somehow made it, and that at the very least people were able to get most of their money back. But it feels like we're reaching a tipping point there.

Yep, especially when you combine them. Both high end and low end "boutiques" failing is bad for the hobby. Throw in a sprinkling of TBL license issues, and a tipping point has probably been reached. Hell, might as well add the difficulty that JJP has had getting pins out the door in a timely manner as well. Or PPS for that matter.

I hear that making pinball machines is hard.

#5098 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Well Greg, how did Ben and Charlie get it done?
In fact, Ben was part of the original game and team. Thanks for bailing out Ben!

In this world, some dudes are "get it done" guys, and the majority are not.

Simple as that.

Some people will work 7 days a week to get to the end goal ... Most would rather go fishing.

Sounds like JPOP pulls the hours (so he says) but without any direction, no end goal will ever be met.

rd

#5099 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Spot on again, I can admit in hindsight it was a stupid move. That's ok, won't be the last one I ever make. And I knew and accepted all along that I could lose money, so what, what really sucks is having to lose a case of beer on a Jpop bet to RD and possibly having to admit that Rare and Rob were right this time!

Lol!! And great tasting beer it was too.

Look, I don't want to be the guy who says "told ya" but even two years back, the reality of the skitB guys making 100s of pinball machines in their spare time in a basement just wasn't a reality. There was no way that was ever going to happen. Same with JPOP, I don't know the guy but the reality of a really fussy, anal retentive guy somehow pumping a heap of machines out of a unit somewhere wasn't overly likely to happen either.

Hopefully (I mean that sincerely) they do get made, but they'll need to be made by Stern, JJP or Spooky if anyone is ever getting one delivered.

rd.

#5100 4 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

In this world, some dudes are "get it done" guys, and the majority are not.
Simple as that.
Some people will work 7 days a week to get to the end goal ... Most would rather go fishing.
Sounds like JPOP pulls the hours (so he says) but without any direction, no end goal will ever be met.
rd

Right on RD as usual.

How do you trust people that lie to you again and again and just blame other people for your failures?

At the end of the day, you can forgive honest mistakes right? I think your character and integrity should mean everything, maybe that's why I get so fired up about all this.

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