Allow me use a prop to demonstrate Deeproot Pinball's fate, now that JPOP has joined .......

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" ...It's Springtime for Hitler and pinball..."

That would be a first then. He's been helped in the past to put out some okay games. Nothing I've had to own...although I did own a WCS for a while.

I'm interested to understand why Robert would stake his reputation on a venture like this. Raising $$ from accredited investors to fund a project like this?

If Jpop had taken his MASSIVE ego down many notches early on and stuck with Ben Heck and maybe co opted a deal with Spooky instead of attacking them, none of the disaster that ensued might have ever happened.

A management group with $$ controlling everything and holding Jpop accountable daily is the game plan i guess? Good luck.

Why bother with jpop when you've got guys like Nordman, Oursler, and maybe even Mark Ritchie out there.

Nordman seems to be floating, may not want to commit to a project. Can't blame him for leaving heighway knowing what we know now. He "may" be helping with Elvira 3 right now

Barry Oursler was also contracted to do work for Heighway, I'm guessing until they start shipping enough Alien games the next project may be on hold. You could probably get him pretty reasonable

Mark keeps saying at shows he wouldn't mind doing another game, but I think it would have to be the right project he's passionate about. Would love to see him come out of pinball retirement.

I think/heard he has done a Pulp Fiction pin for Stern.

Why "may" and "helping"? Do you know something we don't? I ask because it's not like this is some rumored project or something, they got in front of a live audience at Texas and announced it, I thought it was fully a Dennis and Greg project.

He could have left Heighway better, didn't do himself any favors, but I sure as f— don't blame him for bailing. We had drinks a couple years back talking about the Alien mess, and if I see him again we're drinking twice as much this time.

My knowledge here is thin, but Barry is to the best of what I know still actively working on Heighway game(s).

I talked to him at Expo a couple years back and he denied working on any pinball stuff. I'm with you though, I'd love to see him try something again, he has great designs, and for so few games a real signature style.

Bottom line; there is likely a guy or three with proven ability floating around, and IMO all have made better games than jpop.

I talked to him briefly at pintastic this year and he said he was working on stuff, but didn't go into details. It also sounded like he wouldn't be doing any more work for Heighway unless he got paid, so it sounded like they still owed him for some work (as of July, anyway).

Mark Ritchie? Not aware he did anything for Heighway.

Currently, he is not. talked with him yesterday.

I'd like to see someone like Jon Norris have a go at a new design with a good manufacturer. I've been reading his blog, and watching his YouTube videos. The man is brimming with passion. I think with the right team, he'd make some unique games. His better designs really have some fun attributes.

I know his tenure at Gottlieb didn't produce the best titles, but I blame that more on the development cycle at Gottlieb more than anything else.

No, Barry Oursler.

Jpop is finally gonna get to sell some MGs that actually function and work?

Raza and Aiw next?

Amazingly, some people are going to buy these pins. Look at what a garbage MG went for

People come and go. No need to bust a f ing nut over this like some people are

Ah, the part you quoted was about Mark, so I got confused. I have no real idea what Barry is doing, I'm not involved with Heighway in any capacity anymore except if they ask me for something, though I still talk with the US Alien team. But I'd talk with them even if there wasn't a game to get out, happy to consider them all friends now.

I think, and again not an expert here, that Barry and Dave were collaborating in some fashion, maybe Dave has taken over more now. He's a talented designer, I hope he's able to see more of his work realized.

Honestly that's what pinball badly needs, new blood. Washed up con artists like Jpop aren't the answer. You want to start a pinball company? Bless you and good luck, but build your own talent, don't try and rest on the laurels of the past, what's the point?

You might want to ask that question to Chicago Gaming and Planetary Pinball.

Great pinball design talent just sitting there waiting for someone to hire him. Jon had (and still has) some good ideas that are much better than the same cookie cutter designs that we see game after game after game.

If I were starting a new pinball company, I wouldn't bother trying to develop something from scratch. I would try to convert a digital title to the real world (sort of like time shock, except not take 5 years to do it). negotiate a license fee to the pinball designer and buy the license.

Knight Rider

He-man

I even wonder if there's enough pinheads nostalgic for AMIGA titles

Stern has Keith Elwin now to develop some machines. Could be some interesting results.

Maybe it is time to start bringing in New apprentices to ensure pinball can go on after our current designers reach Valhalla......or screw up royal and get booted out of the community. Jpop may be a smart designer, but there are homebrew designers I would rather invest in at this point.

Agreed, could be very interesting. And he is learning, working alongside and under the supervision of Steve Ritchie and George Gomez.
Thats how its done folks and a new great designer could emerge.

Isn't he the same guy that designed a shooter rod assembly that didn't clear the glass?

In the documentary pinball passion The is a great interview with Wayne neyans. He tells the story of Harry Mabs, who invented the flipper. He explains how Harry was a great idea man. He was alway coming up with great ideas but needed a helper to see it to completion.

That's how I see jpop. He has some good ideas. He needs a group of people to tell him no,when he goes to far out on things. and to finish things to completion.

anyone else think the logo looks like ass cheeks and a butthole?

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Looks like they just filled that hole w/ jpop

Has anyone been actually paid in full by Andrew...?

Well now that you've said it I can't UNSEE it! lol

What a horrible name! Made my ass cheeks pinch. It is all i see now.

hahahaha

This Week in Pinball: JPop is Back - A Conversation with Deeproot Pinball

http://thisweekinpinball.com/twip-john-popadiuk-back-conversation-deeproot-pinball-exclusive/

Thanks, that is the best source of info from deeproot we've seen yet.

Still lots to be explained and revealed, but if taking care of zidware customers is part of their business plan maybe there is a way out of this for them.

But.... we've heard this song before.

Maybe they should have chosen the name "Balls Deep" pinball

QSS

That already happened with every title he was credited in design.

In the case of CV, WMS management threatened to remove him from the project permanently early 1997 after the design repeatedly went past design and budget periods. I mentioned some of this in the details in the CV design thread. He always had a support team of other designers and engineers looking over his shoulder.

He was never placed in a vacuum after the initial concepts were completed. Hence, designers unwillingness to work with him directly in the long term after WMS pinball division closed. There also resulted in their refusal to join ZidWare or support his projects. That does not mean they they hated him, as some are still good friends. For the industry, however, he was difficult to work with as a designer.

One of the reasons AP ran into issues early as well, repeating the mistakes of the past.
Another reason why pinball history is relevant to help make good choices both financially and commercially, but dismissed.

DeepRoot is another example now of a group of individuals who think, "We can do it better".
On the Deeproot Pinball website is the following quote: “Every family needs a Pinball…every Pinball needs a family.” The company then describes in a private interview, "Deeproot is planning to manufacture machines “different from anyone else” in a way that will make it easier for more machines to make it into more homes. The machines will be more focused on families than hardcore pinball enthusiasts."

This is an investment opportunity for Mr. Mueller is who not estranged to pinball or its history in any way.
The problem is this group of individuals is now late to the party, and the market has already changed and shifted.
They might have had an opportunity a couple of years ago, when they originally were haggling to bail out the ZidWare fiasco, but chose not to do it.

Reliance on Mr. Popadiuk will be damaging from the standpoint alone of his inabilities to stay FOCUSED on projects.
Those that disagree, I would not recommend making the same habitual mistakes of others that "invested" as consumers such as ZW, HP, DP, AP, or others of the long past.
Being a successful financier and investor, does not give the person the same experience in pinball manufacturing, parts contracting, or specifications.

"Deeproot is in Deep$!@#"
(They just do not fully know it yet, and only reflect knowledge of RECENT pinball history...)

It would be good to see some brand new designers show up. Of course, this is the pinball world, where 45 is considered "young"

When they started back in the day, some were still in their 20's. Steve Ritchie was 27 when Airborne Avenger came out.

It staggers me that Stern haven't set up placement programmes with engineering and industrial design schools in Chicago.

Well, it doesn't.

But if they're to have a future, it would certainly be in their interests.

Pinball is not in Stern's future.

Doing so would infer you intend on hiring people. Hiring people costs money. Therefore, not up Gary's alley.

Remember, this is the business that effectively laid everyone off but their B/C tier folks and left a skeleton crew to do it all when times got tough. Stern is still very much a 'do more with less' mentality.

Sorry, this is the most non-answer, non commital 'exclusive' out there. Good job on securing some clickbait.

I'll save everyone the trouble: "Yes, we know about John, we like John, we want to help John's outstanding customers".

Oh come on, there has to be a worse one out there SOMEWHERE! It's a big internet!

I was happy with it considering we basically didn't have any info from Deeproot previously. Of course I wish he could've/would've shared even more info.

For the tl;dr crowd, to sum up:

- Deeproot plans to make Zidware customers whole
- Robert: "Jpop is someone that needs to be managed"
- Deeproot does not plan to take any pre-order money or deposits for their machines
- Deeproot may change the title or tweak the layout of John's already designed games
- Robert believes he can build machines in a different and better way than other manufacturers are doing currently
- The machines they build will be more focused on "families" rather than hardcore pinheads
- Deeproot hopes to make a public announcement in the coming weeks, then go dark for a long time until everything is ready

They have a long and daunting road ahead to pull this off.

I get the sentiment and recognize that you know a lot more about making pinball machines than I do. But pinball design seems like a craft where experience is pretty valuable. If I were investing millions to launch a new company, I would want a design team stocked with people that have made pinball machines before (hopefully more than once). Let the newer designer with fresh ideas learn from the seasoned veteran and avoid putting out a clunker of a first title, which might be enough to sink a startup. New blood and new ideas are great, and there has to be some way for new people to get into the design game (even if they'll never have the resources or be able to design the number of titles that someone like Steve Ritchie did in his heyday). But it doesn't make sense to disregard decades of experience and hard-learned lessons in the process.

None of which means that it makes any sense to hire JPop at this point -- that's just nuts.

They need high pay scale engineers and designers. Most of them have one foot in the grave, if not in existential terms, then certainly career wise. Line workers are replaceable.

I fully expect them to sell the company, so have no illusions about their commitment (Gary / investors / Gomez etc), but such a programme as mentioned would add value to the company.

Time for a new logo.

LTG : )

I suspect Brazilian Passports have already been ordered.

You're not wrong. But honestly it's not brain surgery either. You make whitewoods, you try things. Look at what Scott did with TNA, that's his first game, he built the damn thing by himself, including rigging up CNC to cut his own whitewoods.

Keith Elwin being at Stern is the most exciting thing out of that shop in a while, and he didn't even finish his first game! But the proto for Archer had great ideas, and with some resources behind it I hope we get to see it in a final game.

Full Throttle had a shitty theme, let's not mince words here, and all the issues that came with Heighway pinball didn't help. But the game shoots well, and that's Dave's first one. With better management and a theme that people wanted it could have gone somewhere. I love that little u-turn shot.

Want to bring in an old school pinball guy to consult and look over things and help you tune your geometry? That sounds smart. But handing things off to someone like Jpop sounds like the opposite.

Cannot argue with you there -- the JPop hiring is inexplicable.

Why though? I mean, what's the point of starting a company, with all the work that comes with just the company part, and then doing all the work that comes with building a pin, and that's a lot, just to recycle some dude's video game idea that was never tested in the real world to begin with?

If your goal is to have a company and build a pin so you can say you have a pinball company that has built a pinball then maybe that's a fast way to do it, I dunno.

But what I do know is a lot about how much work it all is, and I just don't see the point if you're not being creative, trying your own ideas, and making all that effort count for something.

I don't mean this in a jerky way, I was the same before Alien, but I don't think people really grasp just how much work this stuff is. You think you do, but seeing it day in and day out, the problems, the solutions, the new problems, everything, it's really a terrible way to just earn a paycheck. Only reason to do it is if you love pinball and want to see new ideas, things you've got locked up in your brain, come to life.

At this point I'm going hope for the best with Deep Roots Pinball. Hopefully they can make good on their promises. I think nearly everyone can agree that what they have promised would be a good thing. So, if we think like Littlefinger and "assume the worst", what is the worst that can happen? I honestly don't think there is any chance our community would allow a company like this to pre-sell, so the worst I can assume is that this is a stall tactic where JPOP is trying to show he's still working, thus reducing the likelihood that a court would rule against him. Am I missing something else?

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I agree, I'd love to see the Archer layout on a machine.

New KPP. Some interesting info on Deep Root.

Sounds like he's definitely "butt hurt" as he says, despite denying it. Wanted something that's limited and special. Realizing there's a chance it could become unlimited and not so special.

Cant really blame the guy. If you drop $20k plus on something you think is going to be limited... gotta sting a little to come to the realization that you may have paid 3x more for something that's going to have to be "swapped out" as he says for something that anyone might be able to acquire.