I would also NEVER support any new Jpop venture!!!!

I mean, unless there were lots of magnets and novelty features recycled from old EMs, then I'd have to check it out. Sounds cool!

Me.

I spoke with Robert. He said they really have no comment at this time. They plan on making an announcement at a future date and fully know what they are getting into. Very nice, very cordial and professional. I'm backing out of this convo for now as I've got no reason to pile on. Tho I hope JPOP at some point gets an ass kicking, I wish deeproot well in their venture.

Yes, he is 100% reading this.

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Which is the exact reason I believe RAZA and AIW will be produced. They know what they are getting into, no way they do this WITHOUT making those machines and making buyers of those games whole.

I can even see Magic Girl being reproduced AND fully functional. I would have to believe it would make the 1st 25 hand built machines that more collectible.

This is all hypothetical if they can even pull it together.

No need to close this thread, this one has nothing to do with MG, RAZA or AIW. This thread is about JPOP resurfacing as an employee of a new company whose purpose is to build pinball machines. There are only slight resemblances with original thread - both focus on pinball and JPOP, but that is where the similarities end. Carry on.

To be fair to us industry folks, it doesn't seem like there's anyone else in the industry as we know it associated with that place, so, for the most part, I'd guess I say "we agree with you!"

this is 100% the result of you idiots buying / selling Magic Girl garbage boxes for stupid prices. yet another snake with dollar signs in his eyes who thinks he can make a quick buck off delusional fools. he has zero connection to the pinball industry. he merely smells money.

Just so there is no debate about the status of this thread:

Since this is new and significant news, rather than something directly tied to the existing lawsuit and pre-established JPOP titles, this thread will remain open for now. If it starts drastically detouring away from the news related to DeepRoot and into topics already being discussed in the main JPOP thread, we will likely close it and redirect folks to that thread.

I think that would make those 25 more obvious garbage than they already are.

Just another reminder that "fake collectibility" is fake.

Me as well. Got reply right away. Need to respect Deeproot efforts and will get to discuss when they are ready to make an announcement and can talk about it.

Assuming this is a serious attempt to make decent pinball machines (and I don't assume that):

According to the LinkedIn pages, two of the engineers are fresh out of university - 1 year and 2 years respectively. Neither they nor the others seem to have any industry experience.

Whilst that doesn't necessarily mean that they will lack talent or will have insufficient experience for it not to inhibit their work in a general sense, how many people that green are going to be able to turn JPop's rootless, gushing ideas, doodles and dioramas into real, functioning pinball machines?

More importantly, how many would have the confidence to be able to tell him, "no [this is bullshit, it won't work]"

The principle of the company claims to know what he's getting into ... does he really? Maybe with JPop. Maybe not with turning JPop's 'creations' into something tangible.

But who knows ... everyone and their mother seemed to want to trash AP. Their JPopless Houdini looks pretty good now. But then they hired experienced pinball people to clear up the mess.

I refuse to believe that about my Franklin Mint items.....

Same, wrote in and offered to accept a statement from them or conduct an interview for our next podcast episode, since we'll be covering the topic and fair play mandates they have the opportunity to give their perspective. I thought, given we wouldn't air anything until the 24th, that it might fit within their timeline of a planned announcement. Polite response that they can't discuss at this time.

Don't get me wrong saying this as I am COMPLETELY not talking about J Pop.

Many here say the industry needs new blood with the established designers aging out. A few posts up talk about several involved only a year or two out of college. Maybe this company could be a "stepping ground" for new talent. I am holding judgement until things progress.

Jpop might think we're ready for Deepthroat, but he's gonna be pretty surprised when no one wants to handle it and it gets spit back in his face.

You need people to guide them though ... and I don't think that person is JPop.

They would need others.

Just an observation regarding Deeproot's staffing profile -- there are many electrical but no mechanical or software engineering support staff.

An apparatus designer or two as well as a software person is a necessary component to a design team. Further if Deeproot is providing contract manufacturing it would seem they would need additional engineering to support a manufacturing environment as well as a factory.

JPOP can develop concepts, but he is proven lacking in the details of working mechanicals and playfield operational functionality that is clearly illustrated by his past and recent MG.

Looking in further it appears Gary Kokov had started working there in April.

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??? Why should anyone respect Deeproot's efforts? Anyone who hires JPOP deserves (deserves) to fail. There is no redemption for JPOP now...that ship has sailed.

Just like American pinball did. You need money in the office and people in the design room. The old, respected designers had people to guide them.

It seems like it's always the 4 or 5 designers in pinball, and hasn't changed in the past 30 years. Always new pinball companies, but we rarely see any new designers. What happens when the OG designers retire,etc ?

Man, I wish there were ways to give this multiple upvotes.

I get the feeling behind this (some idiot paid $20k for a non-playable machine?!?), and I don't mean to get philosophical, but how do you separate "collectability" from "fake collectability"? The whole notion of "desirability" and "collectability" is so arbitrary and subjective, I don't know where you'd start to draw a line. People seem naturally inclined to want things in part because others want them, and to then speculate on those things. What could you base it on other than "I don't want one of these, none of my friends want one, and therefore it's a 'fake collectible'"?

I know that I have zero interest in owning a Magic Girl. By all accounts it plays like crap and it would just take up space where a fully functional pinball machine could go. But if someone values owning one as a piece of "pinball history" or just to look at, I couldn't argue them out of that.

Of course to a random dude off the street the whole pinball hobby looks insane anyway. My non-pinball friends would be shocked at what I paid for my players' Sorcerer, let alone at NIB pin pricing.

My thoughts are generally something like this. Collectible pinball machines were initially collectible due to time, circumstance, company branding, and reputation. BBB for instance, was never created to be rare...it became rare due to Capcom making protos and then closing shop. New "rare" pins are rare by design - and it doesn't mean they're good...they exist to take advantage of people who want something manufactured to be rare vs. hunting an interesting collectible.

In the case of MG, I don't see it in the same league as BBB, King Kong, etc ...relics that come from companies/factories ...games that were really never meant to be seen by the public but are playable and fun like a real release. I see MG for what it is: a broken and cynical box of parts representing a con man's arrogant attempt to be a player.

Jpop hype is pretty much dead - and only very few people will ever consider MG to be worth anything. They may change hands a few times amongst those few - but after that, there are no buyers. It will always be a non-game that represents anger and arrogance....unlike the other rare/valuable protos that represent pinball at its best.

And if you think about it - those that have one now and those that want one have to "believe" in its market and collectibility and must hold to it ever so tightly. It is a pinball version of the Emperor having no clothes... if you want to play in the game - get out your wallets and pretend the Emperor is dressed in the finest silks known to man...

On the flip side - we all do this with certain games in our collection. The only real variance is how many people in the hobby agree on the value of each game. In the case of Magic Girl the number is very tiny... in the case of CC or BBB the number is larger.

Manufactured fake collectible is producing an unlimited number of machines but have 75 of them with different body armor and a different translite. Give it a fancy name like, Super Limited Edition, charge $15,000 and have people perform circus tricks to get on the waiting list.

I can't wait for the vault edition of that bad boy.

And if everyone should be made whole...still no redemption?

And would the special exception (ie;Jpoop) to the pinside rule of "be nice" in regards to pinsider jpop come to an end?

I also recall these special circumstances kicking in when that infamous Podcaster was allowed to be openly attacked while still being a pinside member.

I could personally care less about jpop or the podcaster and am not trying to criticize pinside or its staff. I just find these special exceptions interesting.

There is a pinball company producing machines right now less than 100 miles from Deeproot. I doubt finding a contract manufacturer will be a sticking point if they really intend to manufacture tables.

While this is surprising I'd let it play out. Should he never be able to get another job in pinball? He was a great designer in the past. He was a terrible business owner. Now he is back to designing.

I'd wait until a finished product is available and then make the decision.

I cant believe any pinhead would consider buying anything from deeproot. Jpop is a criminal plain and simple and should go away for a long long time. deeproot if you are reading this; you made a big mistake.

Say they plan to produce raza and AIW, honoring deposits paid by pre-order customers. The same thing he did with magic girl. Surely that's a good thing for those who've pre-ordered. And if that was the case, doesn't that mean jpop has actually delivered on his promises? He hasn't just tried to disappear. Doesn't he get some credibility for trying to finish what he started? It might not be the most conventional way to do it, but given the guy has no business sense and no money, it is probably the only way he could do it. Get a partner and use his only assets - his pinball designs - as collateral to cover the pre-order money he has already spent.

I know it's off topic, but Chocolate Starfish is the name of an Australian band. It was Rock band from the 90's. They were really good too. (The irony: The video clip below is of one of their hit songs; 8 seconds in is an image of a huge tree with an exposed deep root system. Funny Coincidence)

I agree there is no redemption for Jcrap but I've got nothing against Deeproot and other innocent people

Whether they are idiots or not, that's another story. Let's see what happens

there's no redemption for Jcrap, but you've got nothing against a business whose only connection to the pinball industry is employing Jcrap as their lead designer?

Not really. I thought it was a really dumb idea then when Deeproot surfaced and I think it's a worse idea now

Robert is a financial advisor so I'm interested in hearing the rationale and meeting the guy since he's in my backyard

Raising $$ from accredited investors is a different deal. If supposedly smart investors want to blow $$ then ok. Or, on the hand, maybe they have some genius plan

Look at the people slopping up Magic Turd

Who knows. Pinball people are the most fickle group ever

The people who purchased MG were promised a feature set. Most of the features don't work - the buyers didn't get what they paid for. Please explain to us how this is a good thing...

Yes.

Correct.

It would be too little too late. I'd be very happy for everyone getting made whole (does that include interest at this point?) but it would not redeem JPOP.

Edit...just to clarify. I'm not saying people don't deserve a second chance...or can't be "redeemed". I'm saying it's now too late for JPOP. Had he come out right away and said "I'M SORRY...I F'D UP...I WILL DO EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO MAKE EVERYONE WHOLE...I'LL MOW LAWNS IF I HAVE TO, TO SEND YOU PEOPLE I OWE SOME MONEY".

But he did less than nothing. It's too late for him even if he makes them whole now.

Yes, as an operator, the only job he was supposedly good at that was pinball related.

He was never a good designer, he was an ok art director (ask any of his former co-workers). He's a huge procrastinator, and a perfectionist which makes every project never good enough so it'll never get finished because he'll judge his own work until it's stale, making him want to jump onto the next exciting project (that also won't get finished). I really can't wait for this next story to unfold. I really hope deeproot is only hiring him on a contractual basis and can let him go at any point they want. If they hired him fulltime they are suckers.

Here is a stupid question. (I am an engineer and not a lawyer or accountant). Wouldn't a scheme like described by Deeproot in their post #9745 two years ago amount to them buying Jpop's debt and therefore opening themselves up to being named in any new or pending lawsuits should those people who are out money not be made whole?

100% in agreement with this

He did less than nothing

And he took people's $$ on "progress payments" knowing full well NOTHING was ever going to get done by him other than subsidize HIS lifestyle

Regardless, many of those people doubled their investment before even receiving delivery.

But if hey haven't sold already, that may change now.

I guess that's true. If I waited that long for a machine, and 75% of it didn't work I'd be pissed. Every time I saw it, it would remind me of being scammed....

It feels like groundhog day, again...

Honest question - not trying to make excuses for jpop. Assuming his goal in joining deep root is to deliver on raza and aiw, how else could he do it? Isn't this what he should have done in the first place - team up with investors and tech people who have the ability to produce his pinball machine (again another big assumption that deep root are capable)? What would be the preferable alternative for those that have their money tied up in this?

Maybe a beer?

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Usually solves a lot of problems.

Do u have money in on Raza ice?

The Little Rascals?