(Topic ID: 243478)

Joust CPR playfield swap - process and tips

By j_m_

5 months ago

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#1 5 months ago

to start with, prepping the playfield will make things go much faster (and smoother). this includes, running a drill bit through all of the holes to remove the excess clear coat as well as opening up the holes to accept screws and bolts

the following is a diagram of one side of my original NOS playfield with the hole positions and sizes called out by color. quantities are [per side]. the value in [brackets] at the end of each line represents the diameter of the drill bit that should be used to clear out and open up the holes.

chris hutchins mentioned a tip in another thread that he uses during his restoration process. he will initially run a brand new [sharp] slightly larger, brad tipped drill bit (in reverse) to cut through the clear (without chipping it away) and then switch over the correct drill bit size and run it through the hole completely

(click to enlarge and see more detail)

(2) flipper bat resting position roll pin locations [5/64" dia.]

(6) ball guide wireform locations [5/64" dia.]

(12) #4 wood screws to secure wooden side rails [1/8" dia.] NOTE: these are the holes that should be counter sunk from the underside so that the screws are flush with the bottom of the playfield

(51) #6 screw holes to secure hardware [5/64" dia.]

(23) #10 screw holes to secure hardware [5/32" dia.]

(4) #10 holes for playfield hanger brackets [5/32" dia.]

NOTE:this guide is merely that. I would recommend checking the actual diameter of the hardware associated with a hole before proceeding. the hole size for hardware that is threaded into the playfield should be smaller than the actual diameter of the threaded portion otherwise you will not be able to secure the hardware in place.

once all of the topside holes have been cleaned out, the playfield can be flipped over so that you can perform the following:
- install the ground braid for the general illumination common ground
- install the lamp sockets for general & controlled illumination
- install t-nuts for the machine screw hardware & posts

if I can take a good photo of the underside of a playfield, I will document the lamp socket and t-nut placement (by type and size)

1 week later
#2 4 months ago

lamp socket positions

lamp sockets
077-5000-00 qty: (30) [green] (15 per side)
miniature bayonet base 2-lead with staple down mounting bracket

4762 qty: (8) [blue] (4 per side)
miniature bayonet base 1-lead with short mounting bracket
note: part no.'s E-120-81 or E-120-84 can be used as substitutions

077-5003-00 qty: (9) [not shown] (2 per side under the cross over plastics)
miniature bayonet base 2-lead with laydown mounting bracket
note: (4) above playfield (under the crossovers), (5) in coin door area

077-5001-00 qty: (8) [orange] (4 per side)
miniature bayonet base 3-lead with laydown mounting bracket
note: part no. 077-5006-00 can be used as a substitution

077-5009-00 qty: (28) [magenta] (14 per side)
miniature bayonet base 3-lead with long mounting bracket
note: an additional 30 (15 per side) are tied together in sets with brackets (lighter magenta)

#3 4 months ago

hardware position (top)

top side hardware locations

237-6186-00 (12) [purple] #4 x 1" p-flh phillips, flat head sheet metal screw

NOTE: countersunk from the bottom of the playfield. these are the longer screws that secure the wooden playfield guides to the playfield

4106-01115-08 (29) [magenta] #6 x 1/2" pl-hwh-a phillips, hex washer head sheet metal screw, zinc plated

4006-01005-26 (16) [bright green] #6-32 x 1-5/8" p-ph phillips, pan head machine screw

4106-01033-08 (12) [white] #6 x 1/2" p-trh phillips, truss head sheet metal screw

530-5332-00 (2) [orange] #10-32 bottom, no tap on top bumper post
note: a washer sits between the playfield bottom and the #10 nylock nut used to secure the post. compressing and gripping the rubber sleeve from the topside will help keep the post from spinning while tightening the nylock nut from the underside

530-5012-02 (4) [aqua blue] #6-32 x 2" post stud w/ a hex washer head top
note: these post studs are secured to the playfield by threading into #6 tee-nuts

530-5005-01 (1) [yellow] #10-32 mini post stud

NOTE: two of the sling screws were changed from the typical wood screw to a machine screw on the CPR playfield to add a bit more stability to the star posts and the rubber rings. a tee-nut should be inserted from the underside for all 3 (non-adjustable) screw holes for each of the sling areas

edit (2019.jun.25): corrected the hardware callouts for slings. no impact on prepping playfield
edit (2019.jun.28): modified the colors on 2 parts to make identifying everything a bit easier

#4 4 months ago

the veritas plunge base works like a dream producing perfectly vertical holes. in order to give myself the additional height that I needed to accommodate the length of the drill bits, I fashioned a base out of some 3/4" thick plywood

with plywood base

using a 1/8" brad tipped bit, I just cut through the clear coat to prevent it from being chipped or cracked when tightening down the screws and other hardware

IMG_3074 (resized).jpg

afterwards, I adjusted the stop on the plunge base to a depth of 3/8" and routed all of the holes where the #6 x 1/2" screws would be used using a 3/32" drill bit. the 3/32" diameter bit is equal to the size of the central portion of a #6 screw, not including the threads

IMG_3084 (resized).jpg

for the 3 metal ball guides on both sides, I didn't bother to break the clear coat since the playfield would be visible. instead, I adjusted the stop and piloted the holes to a depth of 7/16" using the same 3/32" drill bit. this provided holes deep enough so that the bottom of the wire guides are in alignment with the mid-point of the pinball when firmed seated into place

holes drilled
guide set into place
height tested with a pinball

#5 4 months ago

prior to installing the hardware on both the top and undersides, you'll want to make sure that the bend was set to the correct angle. it should be 170° (if measuring it from the bottom, or 190° if measuring it from the top, giving you a slope of 5° on either side

playfield angle (resized).jpg

CPR used square headed screws to secure the 4 plates, so you'll need to pick up a #1 square bit from lowes, home depot, etc.. to loosen the screws and then get the help of a friend to hold the bend to the correct angle while re-securing the screws.

on the playfield that I'm currently swapping for a friend, I've replaced all of the screws with the correct, original black oxide, sheet metal screw that is a #6 x 1/2" p-rwh-a (phillips round washer head A type point); part no. 4106-01022-08B

for those that want the screws but did not purchase them from me when I did the bulk buy last year, marco specialties and pinball life purchased my remaining stock and have them in stock

#6 4 months ago

there are 6 sections of the wiring harnesses (2 each for both the lamp and solenoid) that pass from the underside of the playfield to the topside
they are:
- auto shooter x 2 (each end of the playfield)
- ball drain kick-out x 2 (each end of the playfield)
- 2 bulbs under the cross over plastic x 2 (center of the playfield, near the pass through lanes)

in order to make the game a bit more serviceable in the future, I am going to cut the harnesses (the 2 sets of 2 wires for each coil) and terminate them with a 2-pin molex connector which is small enough to pass through the hole currently being used. this will allow the user to disconnect either mechanism to allow it to be serviced

lamp socket wiring harness

there are also 2 sections where GI lighting harness wire passes from below to above (2 wires on one side, 4 on the other) where the wires connect to a pair of laydown sockets. the wiring from these sockets will be run to a 2-pin/4-pin molex connector just below the playfield. again, this will improve serviceability if the case where the lamp harness needs to be removed from the game.

edit: photos for the final solutions will be added once I have completed the modifications

#7 4 months ago

the holes for the #6 machine screws and posts with the #6 bottoms on the CPR reproduction were drilled exactly to spec and fit a #6 perfectly. however, they are not large enough to accommodate the threaded shaft of a #6 t-nut, so you will need to enlarge the hole from the underside of the playfield using an 11/64" drill bit

I did so using a tape line set at 9/32" to ensure that I was only plunging enough to accommodate the threaded shaft of the t-nut and not disturb the clear on the top side of the playfield. there are a total of 17 #6 t-nuts on each side of the playfield (as seen here)

NOTE: you'll want use the 11/64" bit AFTER you've created the pockets with the forstner bit (see below), otherwise the enlarged hole will not be deep enough to accommodate the t-nut shaft

I also found that for the holes that run all of the way through the playfield (eg. all of the metal posts), it's much easier to run the drill from the underside of the playfield, up through the top. the way that a good, sharp drill bit bites into the wood that you are drilling into, it pulls the wood towards you.

NOTE 2: drilling from the underside greatly reduces the potential for cracking the clear coat or pulling off sections of the playfield where there is little wood in between cut-outs

IMG_3290 (resized).jpg

due to the positioning of 4 of the holes being partially obscured by 2 of the bent brackets, you will need to use a forstner bit to create a pocket approximately 3mm deep for the t-nut to sit in under the bracket. a total of only 4 of the holes need be drilled with the forstner bit, but I opted to drill 8 of them (the inner two of the 4 lines of 4) just to play it safe (as well as creating 2 pockets to the spear top metal posts near the spinners
IMG_3291 (resized).jpg
IMG_3299 (resized).JPG

IMG_3300 (resized).JPG

next up, laying down the braid for the lamps that are stapled down

#8 4 months ago

while waiting on the bare wire braid to arrive, I've been messing around to see if I can't tweak the "pattern" and bit to make it look a bit more symmetrical or neater using a bit of tracing paper. here's a first attempt. I just want to rotate that top left bulb a bit more so that I can change the braid locations and avoid the t-nut altogether

IMG_3315 (resized).jpg

the key is to keep the braid out of the way of any hardware so that you don't inadvertently ground out something that shouldn't be

#9 4 months ago

here is a photo for the P2 side showing the lamp sockets with the 3/8" long #6 yellow zinc plated hwh (hex washer head) screw positions
joust - lamp socket screw positions (P2) (resized).jpg

#10 4 months ago

in order to try and make sense of the larger switch and lamp harnesses, here are some images with just that particular harness laid on the playfield to give a rough idea of how each harness "flows"

switch harness positions
IMG_3351 (resized).jpg

IMG_3354 (resized).jpg
IMG_3353 (resized).jpg
IMG_3352 (resized).jpg

lamp harness positions
IMG_3346 (resized).jpg
IMG_3347 (resized).jpg

IMG_3347 (resized).jpg
#11 4 months ago

reserved for a future post 10

part no's for post and screw locations

#6 x 1/2" sheet metal screw p-th-a (phillips truss head A point)

#6 x 1/2" sheet metal screw p-rwh-a (phillips round washer head A point) black oxide finish

#6 x 1/2" sheet metal screw pl-hwh-a (unslotted zinc plated hex washer head A point)

#6 x 3/8" sheet metal screw pl-whw-y (unslotted yellow zinc plated hex washer head A point)

#6-32 x 1-5/8" machine screw p-ph (phillips pan head)

#6-32 x 1/4" machine screw p-rwh (phillips round washer head) black oxide finish

3 weeks later
#13 3 months ago

I'm hoping to start on the swap either this or next weekend. I've got a neighbor helping out, so it should go rather quickly. the owner is allowing me to install new lamp sockets (and braid) and drop targets, but other than that, I will be re-using all of the existing hardware.

I believe it was mentioned in the other joust thread, but for those that didn't see it, marco specialities has re-produced the tombstone drop targets (used in the four 3-drop banks), but appears to be out of stock of them again

#15 3 months ago

I have one of these arriving tomorrow to make short work of pre-drilling all of the holes to the proper depth and perfectly perpendicular to the playfield
veristas plunge base


since I've got about 5 "swap projects" in the wings, so I figured this would be a good investment along with using mr. hutchins tip for pre-drilling the holes found here:

dremel offers one as well which sells for about $35, but it is construction is all plastic and the reviews are not very good. I did a bit of research and this one appears to be pretty well made

#16 3 months ago

the plunge base arrived yesterday. it's very nicely constructed and well made. I need to pick up a piece of felt to adhere to the bottom so that it will glide over the playfield surface and a chuck for the dremel to easily swap out drill bits

I should be good to go this week to prep the playfield, getting all of the topside holes cleaned up and pre-drilled as well as the new braid and lamp sockets in place

#17 3 months ago

some progress was made yesterday. see post #4 above
waiting on screws to make lamp socket installation go smoother and then will start on stripping the original playfield, cleaning the harnesses and transferring everything over

1 week later
#18 3 months ago

I'm hoping to have the underside completely stripped by the weekend and will try and post a detailed diagram on what goes where

I noticed that williams used #6 x 1/2" hwh screws for everything. I will be changing that out and using the yellow zinc plated #6 x 3/8" hwh screws for all of the lamp sockets. the reason for this is that the bracket on the lamp sockets is very thin metal and doesn't take up much of the screw thread length. given that the playfield is roughly just over 1/2" thick, you do not want to risk having a screw penetrate the topside of the playfield, damaging it.

the diagram will show all of the dimples where I plan on using the #6 x 3/8" long screws which should help everyone out

#19 3 months ago

I made some progress over the weekend stripping the underside of the playfield, removing over half of the components from the player one side

on the game that I'm currently working on, I'm attempting to keep the harnesses all intact (where possible) and finding that to be mostly do-able with the exceptional uncoupling of a wire here or there. I'm using id tag zip ties to identify where switches, coils and mechanisms are located (which is great, because they don't fall off like tape does or create a sticky mess and are easy to remove when you're done with them

harbor freight used to sell these, but do not any more. zoro.com sells them for $30 per 1,000 and monoprice has them even cheaper for $1.38 per 100



NOTE to self: if you're going to buy something like these, USE THEM!! I made the mistake of labeling every single one of the switch harness connectors (and very well, I might add), but did not duplicate this effort for the lamp harness.
trust me when I say that unless you plan to remove and swap everything in a single day (or you're chris hutchins and have done this 10x before), it's very likely that you will not remember the exact location for every single switch or lamp. photos on how the parts are oriented on the playfield before you remove them are equally as helpful when it comes to transferring everything to the new playfield.

F8E8841C-F0DC-409E-BFDA-EFF665FC94C7 (resized).jpegIMG_3184 (resized).jpg

finding broken wires on switches and noting them as I disconnect everything. these, along with re-soldering the wires that I'm having to cut to disassemble and separate the different (coil, lamp and switch) harnesses are labeled if I don't take care of it right away
44D67A4D-E7D9-4ACD-BC1B-8F1135E55103 (resized).jpeg

additionally, I found that williams did not use the yellow zinc plating on the #6 x 3/8" hwh screws to secure the lamp sockets so I've been marking the holes with a gold sharpie inside the hole and next to it. this will help me create my template when I go to pilot the holes on the underside of the CPR playfield (and mark them as well so that I do not inadvertently use a 1/2" long screw in the wrong place
IMG_3182 (resized).jpg

the screw holes and areas right near the holes are marked ["dotted"] with a gold sharpie to indicate the positions of the #6 x 3/8" hwh screws
IMG_3181 (resized).jpg

1 week later
#20 3 months ago

more progress made over the weekend (and more after this photo was taken)
5C13BBA3-678C-4193-B8FE-C5F4DDC35204 (resized).jpeg

I’m hoping to have the underside completely stripped this week and start transferring over everything

I’ve ordered a surplus of the 1N4148 zener diodes for the controlled lamp sockets to make the install a bit smoother. if anyone needs some, shoot me a pm and we can discuss

#22 3 months ago

I did not add or re-clear the CPR playfield. I did let it sit (outside of the box) for a month to help it cure a bit more before I ran the brad bit to remove the clear around the holes and pilot all of the screw holes.

given that the original playfields were not cleared at all, I can't see where a [now] HUO machine would need any [more] clear than what was already applied by CPR (it seemed rather thick already. and without knowing what type of clear that was used, I wouldn't want to risk using something that would adversely react to the existing clear

with the underside getting closer to being completely stripped, I should be able to take a photo and supply an image with all of the holes highlighted where the shorter, 3/8" length #6 hwh screws go (basically, all the ones that are used to secure the thinner lamp socket brackets

#23 89 days ago

I finally am to the point where all (except the player 2 flipper) coils have been removed from their harness (and id tagged). as I reach the end of the teardown, I have noticed few things that I will make reference in the next update with photos that will hopefully save people doing this a bit of time

this playfield has definitely seen its share of use (and abuse). there are a number of wiring hacks near the center of the playfield where the harness passes from the underside to above (under the cross over plastics). I may end up taking the chris hutchins path and installing some molex connectors to de-couple the assemblies and lamp socket groups from the rest of the harness, making it easier to service in the future. additionally, this playfield has what appears to be a bunch of bondo underneath the playfield for the t-nuts near the 3-bank drop targets

the ones in particular are:
- the ball trough kick-out and auto launcher assemblies; both of these are top mounted assemblies with wires running through a small lamp socket sized hole underneath and are perfect candidates for molex connectors
- the GI top mounted laydown lamp sockets (2) along and the under playfield lamp socket that reside near the center of the playfield under the cross over plastics are another area where terminating them with a molex connector would allow easier serviceability

finally, an FYI
if you are planning on replacing the square headed screws for the brackets that hold the playfield at the 170° angle. when you remove the (2) inner brackets, that is the perfect time to install the 16 t-nuts for the metal screws and posts for the star posts located behind the 3-bank drop down targets. a portion of (2) of the t-nuts is concealed by the brackets

#25 89 days ago
Quoted from BobLangelius:

How are you liking the plunge base? I keep going there, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

it works great. definitely makes the job of piloting the holes a lot easier and faster [with a consistent depth]

#26 88 days ago

the one thing that I'm finding (but I'm not sure it the issue is related to this one specific machine or jousts in general) is that the switch, lamp and power harnesses all seem to be intertwined and cannot be easily separated unless you want to start cutting a lot of wires

this means that your options are:
- leave everything attached, and pull the harnesses off in one, huge tangled mess and try and work through it section by section
- strategically sever lines here and there at coils, switches and lamp sockets (marking them as you go) to try (key word here is 'try') and separate the harnesses and make them a bit easier to deal with when moving them over to the new playfield

obviously, I'll be taking the more difficult route and go with option B. in the end, it should make it easier on the tail end

#27 88 days ago


someone obviously had re-worked and ran a new wire in the switch harness and wasn't very careful with their routing skills, causing the new wire to entangle both the coil and lamp harnesses in multiple areas. a few careful cuts and I now have 3 distinct and separate harnesses, which will make installing them on the new playfield much, much easier.

the playfield is now completely stripped top and bottom. photos to follow soon once I've put together the diagram for the bottom side dimples

and now the fun part starts . I would prefer to fix a lot more, but it's not in the budget for the owner

#28 87 days ago

a screw for each the 2 shorter wood rail sections (located left of the pass through from the player's perspective) may or may not be partially covered by the outer bent brackets
IMG_3279 (resized).jpgIMG_3277 (resized).jpg

obviously, you will need to loosen the brackets in order to remove them. on the CPR playfield depending on how close to the actual center of the playfield the bend cut was made, you will need to also loosen these brackets in order to drop the screw in (and under the bracket)

there are 6 bent brackets used to secure the 170° bend, so loosening one of them at a time shouldn't change the formed angle, however I would use an angle protractor after the fact to ensure that you still have a 5° bend on either side

#29 87 days ago

detail for post # 6 was added above

as mentioned previously, this joust has seen better days. it appears that some of the t-nuts loosened and then were spun repeatedly, chewing up the underside of the playfield, rendering the t-nuts useless

bondo appears to have been used for a couple of the posts located behind the 3-bank drop targets (that the rubber ring runs around) or the t-nut removed altogether (most likely it dropped out, and was not noticed) for the spiked posts located in front of the spinner frames
IMG_3282 (resized).jpgIMG_3283 (resized).jpg

additionally, I noted that the 8 metal posts (the 6 with the rubber sleeves and the 2 spiked posts with the small rubber rings) were all missing the #8 washers normally found between the playfield and the nylock nuts. the washers are important because they are used to increase the surface area to secure the posts.

missing washers = an increased probability of chewing up / compressing the surrounding wood resulting in further damage to the playfield

#30 86 days ago

detail for post # 7 was added above
hoping to trace out the lamp braid pattern tonight and knock that out tomorrow. then I will drill the counter sink holes for wood rail screw holes and work on the topside lamp sub-assemblies that are located under the cross over plastics

the 8 wood rails from this machine are pretty much beat to heck, so a trip to menards will probably in order shortly to pick out some nice lengths of oak to replace them

#31 85 days ago

I had to order the round, bare wire braid used for the lamp sockets (scot boggart has a really good assortment of tools and supplies @ pinrestore.com

hoping to have it this week to lay this down and continue

#32 83 days ago

detail for post # 8 was added above

I think that I have a couple of good source images for both halves of the playfield to show the orientations and positions of the components (by harness)
the lamp harness will also show the positions of all of the yellow zinc plated #6 x 3/8" hwh screw

1 week later
#33 76 days ago

stapler arrived yesterday, air compressor connectors and hose arrived today

tomorrow or Thursday, braid should be figured out and stapled down. pics to follow

#34 75 days ago

now that I have a new portable compressor and stapler the lamp braid was laid out and stapled in place tonight. the pattern is slightly different than the original joust's due to the fact that an extra t-nut was added for each of the slings. once I have the jumper wires in place for 3 of the lamps, it will all make sense

left side
IMG_3398 (resized).jpg

right side
IMG_3397 (resized).jpg

entire playfield
IMG_3399 (resized).jpg

#35 74 days ago

while making progress last night, I realized that I'm still missing a few of the correct bayonet sockets (which I had already pointed out in post #2 above. I have them on order and should have them by the weekend to continue

when I originally ordered the 3-lead bayonet sockets, no one had the correct staple down, 3-lead part no's (077-5001-00) in stock, so I ordered 077-5006-00 instead (with the intent to cut off the laydown bracket)

marco's now has the correct part no. 077-5001-00, back in stock again

lamp sockets are expensive. you don't realize it until you enter all those quantities and then look at your cart

#36 73 days ago

two things that I found out, the first of which will help others

thing 1
the position of the lamp braid is critical in this area (the one in this image was stapled correctly)
lamp braid routing (resized).jpg

you need to leave enough room for the saucer eject shield to be mounted flush to the bottom of the playfield and will also want the braid to avoid the t-nut to prevent a potential grounding issue (vinyl tubing over that section can also be used

a 3rd option is instead of jogging it to the right of the t-nut, there is enough room to run both braid lines to the left of it

thing 2
the directional guide ramps for both of the saucer eject shields were broken off, so the shields will need to be replaced
broken saucers (resized).jpg
unfortunately, this part is not available in the transparent blue that was used in joust so unless the owner wants go with transparent clear, red or purple, I will have to improvise by ordering the clear version (part no. 03-9101-13) and then dye it the proper color using transparent acrylics (a huge thank you to superchicken that posted this 5 years ago

after it's dyed to the correct color, the corner will need to be removed as to not interfere with the rubber sleeved post located just above and left of the saucer

#38 73 days ago

thanks chad
I was wondering if anyone was actually reading anything that I've been posting since no one has been chiming in. I'm guessing that no one is looking forward to the [fun] that I've been having with this one

personally, so far it's been a rewarding project and the harnesses should start getting put back in place by the end of next week (assuming that the parts that I have on order arrive on time

#40 72 days ago

ever wonder why both sides of a joust don't ever appear to play the same way? I know that when we played, it was always a "best of 3 rounds match" where we swapped sides after the first game and loser of the 2nd game (if it wasn't a sweep) got to pick their end for the 3rd and final game

this is one of the reasons. parts on both ends were not installed the same way or at the same angles
player one side
IMG_3414 (resized).jpg
IMG_3415 (resized).jpg

player two side
IMG_3417 (resized).jpg
IMG_3416 (resized).jpg

I'm going to try and eliminate this issue with this playfield using the 36° and 126° complimentary angles on both the P1 and P2 sides

#41 72 days ago

there are 5 wire roll over switches on either side of the playfield. 4 of them are similar however a section has been cut off of 1 of them (on each side) to allow for a nearby post to be secured (these are the roll over wire switches just above the 2 pass-over drop target on both sides of the playfield
IMG_3419 (resized).jpg

the placement of the left inlane roll over wire switch is pretty crowded, so when mounting the switch, make sure that the wire is centered so that it can actuate the switch smoothly
IMG_3418 (resized).jpg

the 3 terminal staple down sockets arrived today, so I was able to install those along with the germanium glass diodes
IMG_3422 (resized).jpg

here's a look at the re-routed braid near the saucer eject shields (which have been temporarily mounted with the old pieces at the aforementioned 36° angle
IMG_3421 (resized).jpg

and finally, here is my change to help separate the harnesses (lamp and solenoid) in the areas where the wiring passes between above and below the playfield (lamps under the cross over plastics, and the trough kickout and auto plunger shooter coils)

the hole is just large enough that a 0.062 2-pin molex plug-type connector can pass through. I will show the solenoid harness connections when I have them complete
IMG_3423 (resized).jpg

#42 69 days ago

attempting to dye the saucer eject shields today with rit dye

the first attempt with 12oz of water and about 1-2 ozs of 'rit dye more' (sapphire blue) heated to 150°F doesn't appear to do anything even after 2 hours of trying (with multiple times reheating the water). any tint that appeared to take simply floated away when rinsing the shields in a bath of clear, cool water

for the second attempt, I eliminated some of the water and added approximately 25% acetone to the solution. after approximately 30 minutes, this is showing more promise as I finally now have a light blue tint which is about halfway to where I want to be. I've reheated the water and will let the parts soak for another hour and then check again

after 30 mins with acetone added

#44 69 days ago

only the 4 controlled lamps (under the aprons) at each end have them
these are the same type of diodes used on the original playfield. all other diodes are the 4001/4004 type (black with the silver ring)

my guess is that they are being used to allow a more impactful strobing of the bulbs but maybe someone will chime in

#45 69 days ago

about 4 hours of total dyeing time got me to here which is pretty darn close. I ended up adding a total of approximately 5oz. of the rit dye plus

I just need to cut off the corner on each so that they will fit
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#46 68 days ago

I dyed one extra set of the saucer eject shields if anyone wants a new set for their joust. $22 for the pair shipping in the usa
this covers the cost of the parts, dye, acetone and shipping

#47 65 days ago

work has been crazy busy this week so progress has somehow slowed

tips for re-assembly thus far
1. mount the 2 trough guides inside of the cut-outs first
2. the switch plates that sit inside the trough cut-outs are a bit tight (they will ride on the edges of the metal switch screws), but they will fit
3. check all wire connections during re-assembly. I'm finding a lot of loose wires (or wires that are simply breaking at solder points due to movement). you should have enough wire to trim off the broken ends, strip and re-attach using fresh solder after cleaning up the connections

re-attaching the switch harness
3B46131A-7BE4-4A80-86A2-D1D94189BC54 (resized).jpeg

#48 64 days ago

I’ve always thought that the “gray” vinyl wrap on the joust wooden rails wasn’t very nice looking and given that the ones in this machine have seen better days I decided to make new ones from oak and stain them

I think these look much nicer (original in the front row for comparison
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#49 64 days ago

the switch harness is now pretty much complete except for the 4 hunter stand-up targets, 4 flipper EOS, 4 sling and the 16 drop targets
D98436D0-87E5-487D-BB37-1B6CD1EFC344 (resized).jpeg

the cable management clips make it a bit easier to see exactly how everything should be routed

the side rails will receive another coat of poly to seal them up and then will be mounted. the drop target assemblies will be mounted next before I proceed on to the lamp harness

#50 61 days ago

I forgot to order the dropdown decals for the new target faces when I ordered the drop targets (part no. 03-7773-4) from marco's awhile ago. so, I've been waiting on the order from PPS (which is stupidly expensive [4 decals @ $6.75] and you will need 4 sheets total (16 decals)]

the stickers should arrive tomorrow, so I can change all of the drops out, mount the assemblies and then reconnect the switches from the harness and proceed

the following 3 suppliers are still out of stock of the drop targets, but I figured I would post the direct links to make it easier to search for those looking for them

I spoke with a representative @ marco's the other day and they DO NOT expect restock of the drop targets any time soon

#51 59 days ago

A huge work issue aside now (another 'hell' week of 12-14 hour days), I'm back to making progress

the drop target decals arrived and I have all of the 3-bank drop rebuilt with new targets and decals. one of the rollover targets is still soaking in some goo gone to remove it completely

coil sleeves have been replaced for nearly everything as well. I should be able to finish that up tonight or over the weekend

I also just now noticed that the small spike topped metal posts near the spinners use the machine screw instead of the wood screw version (part no. 530-5005-01), I will need to use the forstner bits again and create 2 "pockets" in the underside of the playfield because the posts are directly over areas where the left 3-bank drop bank target brackets attach to underside of the playfield

22AE63BE-03E0-4301-B6BC-189AC9DF09F1 (resized).jpeg

#52 58 days ago

as I stated in an earlier post, there are 6 points where the lamp and solenoid harnesses pass between the top and bottom side of the play field. when and if you need to remove them, you need to pull out the soldering iron and disconnect those points on the harness

my solution (a tip of the hat goes to chris hutchins for all the wonderful information provided in his thread)
create a couple of smaller, sub-assembly harness sections with molex connectors so that you can easily disconnect that section without having to break out the soldering iron

712C96FC-710C-4F77-9EFA-D6CC04C32AA8 (resized).jpeg

on the lamp harness, under the cross over plastics on the topside there are 3 lamps (2 topside and one underneath), creating this sub-assemblies allows me to thread a 2-pin male connector through the hole to the bottom of the playfield
0AA41447-0F88-40D5-93E2-0BE688A3BD79 (resized).jpeg

underneath there is a stapled lamp socket, and by creating a pig-tail harness (each with a 2-pin female connector), I can create a point to connect both the lamps from the top side as well as tie back into the main lamp harness
05EC7BD5-E028-4911-80D1-33A8FAC08876 (resized).jpeg
D11FDCD0-5A84-455D-BA4C-A1488B29DA91 (resized).jpeg

when I get to the stage of installing the lamp harness, I'll point out the other 6 areas that are hardwired to stapled sockets that need to have molex connectors installed to make it 100% removeable without soldering/de-soldering

#53 58 days ago

all of the drop target mechs for half of the playfield are now installed and their corresponding switches wired in
9D8F09B7-7C75-4F47-A08F-E276498D9568 (resized).jpeg

2 coats of poly appear to have provided a nice finish to the stained wood rails
81405562-73E1-4A97-BAF6-854B749D65C4 (resized).jpeg

#55 57 days ago

all of the drop target banks are in and the switches connected. just need to hook up the sling kickers, saucer and trough ejects before moving on to the lamp harness

NOTE: prior to installing the drop target banks, you'll want to install (6) rubber sleeved metal posts and the (2) spear top posts. the reason being is that once those 3-bank target mechs are in, there's not a whole lot of room to work with. additionally, you'll want to make sure that you add washers to the posts before securing the lock nut/nylock nuts to the underside of the playfield to prevent the nut from drawing into the wood and chewing it up.

C3414252-EC58-4B19-BCB9-F4B27802FC9D (resized).jpeg

#56 54 days ago

with the exception of the flipper assemblies, the switch harness is now complete
1012C758-9197-4CA3-BD23-9F560078F814 (resized).jpeg

you want to make sure that the sling kickers do not extend too far and hit the face of the rounded slot that they sit in

taking another page from the book of chris hutchins (and ignoring the pre-existing dimples), position the kicker arm so that it sits at its resting position approximately 1/8” from the back of the slot. this will allow the kicker arm to travel the full length of the slot when the coil is energized without striking the face of the slot
21E36A0C-95A2-4D7D-BECB-F17546B35643 (resized).jpeg

2AA7CF85-A11E-40D0-938E-396C23131473 (resized).jpeg

#57 54 days ago

btw, even though marco's has these listed as the "incorrect" flipper bats, they are the ones on my joust (which has original bats) and on the one that I'm currently performing the playfield swap on

does anyone else have these on their machine? (the tips of the "W" is point towards the narrow end of the flipper

#58 53 days ago

another question for joust owners
what type of metal mini post do you have near the spinners at the middle of the playfield?

#59 52 days ago

as I'm getting ready to test out my work thus far, I'm finding that the original playfield hanger brackets will not fit. the original playfield is 1/2" thick, while CPR's is 9/16"

the gap on the parts [could] potentially be widened enough to accommodate the additional thickness, but I don't want to risk breaking the spot welds

I'm reaching out to a few metal fabricators to see what it would cost to produce new pieces. how many customers of the CPR playfield would be interested in a new set of brackets if I were to get them made?

#60 49 days ago

I've gone and added the rest of the molex connectors for the lamp harness to make it removable without the use of the soldering iron. this includes (4) 2-pin connectors where the harness is attached to the stapled in lamps near the outer edge of the playfield (under the cross over plastics) and for the game over-tilt-match-high score section, each using a 2-pin and a 4-pin connector

those pen-like paint markers work great for allowing you to match the wire stripe (and band) colors when tying into the original harness

A2F94423-941B-410D-8D7E-51B411255900 (resized).jpeg

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EFE05672-268B-4BFC-AD55-3B95F7FC6080 (resized).jpeg

up next, making the changes to the harness and adding the molex connectors

#61 47 days ago

making progress with the lamp harness (the P2 side is about 95% complete

9338D70B-2321-4A47-BF6D-950C79C6CBA2 (resized).jpeg

the top half (the P1 side) is just positioned in the correct locations so that it's out of the way for now
96A046FE-FE83-42BD-9AD0-1254869023B9 (resized).jpeg

the molex connectors are working great (other than the fact that I used the wrong color wires for one connection and need to correct that), however there are still approximately another 8-10 wires in the lamp harness bundle that connect to the coil lugs

williams must have had the lamp harness connectors pulling double-duty and ran some of the high voltage through that bundle (there are 2 connectors leading from the lamp harness into the machine) and these wires are 18awg wires compared to the 20awg and 22awg for the lamp and switch wires

I will probably end up inserting a few 0.093 molex connectors for the wires leading to the coil lugs to make the lamp harness completely removable

#63 47 days ago

a couple more tips that should make everyone's swap a bit easier (I'll add these back to the appropriate sections as well

prior to installing the drop target banks, you'll want to install (6) rubber sleeve metal posts and the (2) spear top posts. the reason being is that once those 3-bank target mechs are in, there's not a whole lot of room to work in those areas. additionally, you'll want to make sure that you add washers to the posts before securing the lock nut or nylock nuts to the underside of the playfield to prevent the nut from drawing into the wood

I did a great job labeling the switch harness using those ID zip cables, and thought that I did the same with the lamp harness, but it turns out that I probably should have labeled every single socket (and taken more photos of their positions and orientation prior to removal. there are quite a few sockets strung next to each other in the harness where they are grouped together closely under the playfield, and it may not be clear which one goes where when you go to put it back

(fortunately, I have [my] joust sitting in another nearby room with the playfield up in service position to refer to, but I know that this isn't a scenario that most of you have the ability to rely on

#64 42 days ago

I can get the playfield hangers made for a price of $64 per set of four (4) plus shipping if I can get at least 23 people to commit (for a total of 25 sets)

pm me if you're interested

these would be done just like the originals, zinc plated with the stickers "LIFT FROM THIS SIDE ONLY" and "LIFT FROM OTHER SIDE ONLY" applied

so far, only 1 person has stated that they would be interested in a new set of hangers. I know for a fact that CPR sold at least 60 joust playfields, so unless all these people intend to route four 2" (w) x 1-1/2" (l) x 1/16" (d) sections on the bottom of their playfields, they are going to find it a bit difficult to fit the brackets

2019.sep.11 - 6 sets accounted for, 19 to go with the first fabricator if need be

#66 40 days ago

thanks tom

there are 3 other metal fabricators in my city that I was planning on reaching out to as well as marc (marco specialties) and terry (pinball life)

does anyone have the ability to create the cad files that most of these houses use? I can chat with you and give you the specific changes from the original that should be made to the files

#68 37 days ago

the lamp harness is now complete

in addition to the molex connectors for the stpled sockets, I added another 8 single molex connectors for the wires running to the flippers and 3-bank drops

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work will start on the solenoid harness tomorrow where I’ll be adding another 24 molex connectors to make it easier to service when things like coil stops and sleeves need to be changed out

1 week later
#71 28 days ago

other than the playfield hangers (which another pinsider has been kind enough to help with and create the CAD file for), I should be wrapping the playfield swap up this week.

most of the molex connectors for the solenoid harness are of the 0.093 variety, however the holes near the ball trough eject and lane auto shooter is just as tiny as the ones under the crossover plastics for the lamps, so those are using the smaller 0.062 2-pin connectors

additionally, since the wiring is identical for both coils (at each end of the playfield) and they pass through the same hole, I've keyed the molex pins differently so that they cannot inadvertently be connected to the harness incorrectly

65D51DBE-0DDF-4629-9338-BB0CE2F754FB (resized).jpeg

pins for the shooter ejects, sockets for the autoplungers
7EAEC20C-8992-44D8-BEFE-3C1B376EB886 (resized).jpeg

#72 25 days ago

I've reached out to 5 metal fabricators to get the playfield hangers produced now (still awaiting the quote from the last one). $60 per set if I have 100 pcs (25 sets) run is still the best price that I've been able to get

AD72 has been kind enough to provide me with CAD drawing to work off of (thank you sir!

producing them (at the 100pc qty) comes to $1,500. while I've got no issues funding the project, I would really love to have 18-20 people committed to purchasing a set of these before tying my funds

currently, 12 sets are accounted for:
(4) - j.m. (myself and the playfield swap that I'm currently working on)
(1) - AD72
(2) - tjc02002
(2) - chad
(1) - whysnow
(1) - BobLangelius
(1) - ghostbc

#75 24 days ago

I've gotten a new (lower) price for the brackets. $52 per set plus shipping. seeing as I've got 20% of them sold through, I may take the plunge and have them made (there is a 4 week lead time)

these will be zinc plated, just like the originals and I will include a sheet of (4) "LIFT FROM THIS SIDE ONLY" and "LIFT FROM OTHER SIDE ONLY" decals that can be applied to them like the originals (but not like my set of which 3 of the brackets have a LIFT FROM OTHER SIDE ONLY decal

update 2019.oct.21
** the initial reservation pricing is now over, pricing for the remaining 9 sets has been set at $60, plus shipping **

#78 23 days ago
Quoted from chad:

Also , any word on tje plastic sets.? Thanks

I've no idea. we submitted the final [corrected] artwork last year to CPR right around the time that the playfield were supposed to start shipping

#79 23 days ago

I completed installing all 3 harnesses. both the solenoid and lamp harnesses feature molex connectors to allow the owner to completely remove them without the use of a soldering iron. all sub-assemblies with a coil (saucer kick-out, drop target banks, flippers, etc...) are now connected via molex connectors and can be removed to be repaired or replaced easily. photos will be posted tomorrow

have I mentioned that the underside of a joust is very messy? there way too many wires, mechs and lamp assemblies and probably a good mile of wire running underneath this playfield

#80 22 days ago

6BE7B9F5-F4C8-4A28-8BE8-B149BE4C33BB (resized).jpeg

2EDA2AB4-59E4-45F8-B86B-118C2AB7D087 (resized).jpeg3225B464-3CD4-4F16-889F-2511534DA2B7 (resized).jpeg8105B05D-1681-4A8D-A411-A47D92BD139F (resized).jpeg90BA1ACA-A579-41F6-8F1C-D54D70FDB386 (resized).jpeg

some close-ups
360F0F99-19ED-4FF0-B21F-6E7597743851 (resized).jpeg88E9D9F0-86C4-42DE-9F58-8D6FAFE7C614 (resized).jpeg
3389EA70-7CAB-4579-B460-9A93E33A6A27 (resized).jpeg
568D16DE-D6A6-40AA-A9E9-1100D2024A41 (resized).jpeg845F110D-0D62-4CB1-A958-90F0E96CA5B2 (resized).jpeg

I ended up switching the connector types (using the plug on the wiring harness and the receptacle on the coil assemblies since there was no close restraint on the underside of the playfield where the wires pass through topside. 0.062" size connectors were used because the 2-pin plug type connector is small enough to pass through the hole without having to modify the playfield.
F554C3AF-E1DB-4C0A-927A-0D25667795FE (resized).jpeg
929CC2F9-AF5F-4D77-98AB-A70CB35269C8 (resized).jpeg

#81 21 days ago

I have placed the order with the fabricator this morning and will be producing a total of 25 sets of the playfield brackets. if anyone that ordered a CPR playfield that is not on this list, now is the time to act (or if you know of someone that ordered a CPR playfield, you may wish to contact them.

once these are sold through, I do not plan to have any more made.

#83 19 days ago

with the harnesses in place, I'll probably post one or two more updates to cover anything that may help with the installation of the topside components once I have the newly fabricated brackets in hand

one thing that was changed on the CPR playfield from the original were the locations of the (4) #4 wood screw holes for all of the longer (17") wood rails
on my original (and the machine that I'm currently performing the swap on), it appeared that the williams factory workers attached the rails with screws wherever they saw fit
on the CPR playfield, the 4 holes for each wood rail were piloted in the same position, using the same hole position pattern, so that you don't have to worry about accidentally attempting to install a rail section on the [wrong] side of the playfield

#84 14 days ago

there's a strong possibility that I will have the completed playfield hangers on or by October 21st and ready to ship. once I have them in hand, I will calculate the shipping costs and send people the total amount due

there are only 10 sets left unspoken for, so if you want a set, now is the time to speak up

#85 11 days ago

the template for creating the bracket labels in my zebra printer is done
the original labels were pretty utilitarian to begin with, but I think I’ve come pretty close
7C525632-AD8B-472E-AE28-F0A90F95EBA9 (resized).jpeg

I’ve printed these on BOPP so you won’t have to worry about them fading or tearing

#86 7 days ago

bracket update:
the playfield hanger bracket decals are all printed and have been cut and packaged up to be included with each set of brackets

I will have the brackets in hand next monday, oct 21st, so look for a pm with a total amount due and payment information

#87 1 day ago

brackets are in-hand and being bubble-wrapped and packaged up. if you have reserved a set or two, you should have a pm with your total and payment instructions in your in box

the cardboard envelope(s) included in the package contain the "LIFT FROM THIS/OTHER SIDE ONLY" decals. and even though I have increased the gap to accommodate the CPR playfield thickness, you may find the brackets are still a very tight fit due to the thickness of the clear coat. I ended using a plastic "deadblow" hammer to gently knock them into place and then secure with the bolts.

thank you to the joust community for putting their trust in me (once again) to get this job done (and terry @ pinball life for actually getting these fabricated for us

#88 15 hours ago

all paid bracket orders have either posted out or will make their way to the post office tonight

I have noticed that the tolerances for the new brackets on the spot weld sections are very tight and even , so the amount of clearcoat that was applied to the playfields may cause the fit to be very tight (as noted above).

I have also noticed the following:
- the #10 bolt holes on P1 end appear to be dead on (1-1/4" from the playfield edge), while the holes on the P2 end are slightly greater than 1-1/4" from the edge, so you may have to elongate them a bit with a drill bit (like I did) so that they align up with the bracket holes
- either I messed up or the playfields are slightly longer than the originals. with that said, you may have to put the brackets in a vice and [modify] one of the middle 125 degree bends ever so slightly

on the playfield swap that I'm currently working on, it appears that I need to change the bends just enough to gain another 1/16" to 1/8" clearance for the playfield to sit on the hanger ends and fit inside of the cabinet

#90 13 hours ago

I'll take a picture of the playfield [almost] in the cabinet when I get home tonight and then a couple of the brackets (before and after)

I believe that the fix will be something as simple as putting the bracket in a vice (w/ wooden blocks to protect the part) and then applying a bit of pressure to the part to change the angle of one of the bends. this will need to be repeated for all 4 brackets

#91 4 hours ago

the playfield as it currently sits
27D1D50E-BC70-4D56-A7E4-1693B7C22A43 (resized).jpeg

using MDF blocks positioned as shown, I squeezed the bracket in my vice to increase the angle (the one just above the spot welded piece join)
B91F1096-F530-4202-81B1-F76E3BF572FE (resized).jpeg

here's a comparison of the newly bent bracket with an original from the new run (the top piece has the increased angle)

the angle is changed by just 2-3 degrees. then repeat for the other 3 brackets, making sure that the angle change is uniform (I changed all 4 on my first attempt with each bracket without any issues. while in the vice, I used the first re-bent piece to compare and make sure that I wasn't increasing the angle by too much
553663E7-4D01-4A94-8786-5F7100AF2443 (resized).jpeg

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