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(Topic ID: 262411)

Joker Poker SS Playfield Swap with a Ron Kruzman Clear'd Playfield

By dmacy

4 years ago


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Post #7 How to use Ron Kruzman’s clear kit when prepping a clear coated playfield. Posted by dmacy (4 years ago)

Post #8 Process how to prep a playfield step by step with a Ron Kruzman or clear coated playfield using Ron’s kit. Posted by dmacy (4 years ago)

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#1 4 years ago
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dmacy

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Documenting my first swap of a Gottlieb with Turtle Joker Poker that he had Ron's kruzman work done to it. We will run new lighting braid with new light sockets, new pop bumper parts, new rails from TaylorVA and not sure what else we will need yet. This machine is in really nice shape top and bottom so it shouldn't need much.

Having never owned any Gottlieb before, much of this is a whole new world. Where are the Phillips screws?!!! Well there was two that weren't supposed to be there... (One on each end of the lighting rails)

Here's how it came:
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Phillips (resized).jpgPhillips (resized).jpg
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#2 4 years ago
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Top side tear down photos Part 1:

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#3 4 years ago
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Top Side Tear Down Part 2:

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#4 4 years ago
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dmacy

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Bottom side areas that will need to be removed to get on the rotisserie:

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#5 4 years ago
 
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Spyderturbo007

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Just wanted to subscribe. I can't wait to see how this turns out.

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#6 4 years ago
 
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chad

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#7 4 years ago
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dmacy

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Turtle and I started on the new playfield today. Holy crap it looks so nice!

We started using Ron’s kit with the pointed bit and followed up with “bulb” bit. We also opened up the rail holes locking them all in with the glue.

We have four of the guides in. I didn’t document anything of our work today but will. The process is the same as done in the past: Measure the guides and use the bit from Rob’s kit to clear out the hole. In this case, I liked the sharp pointed bit. We used it on all the guides holes. Next you drill out the hole one drill bit side smaller. I like to follow up with my hand countersink tool and have that home opened just a hair larger than the “spade” on the guide. Lock it in with glue from Ron’s kit. Then wack, wack, wack it in just below the spade. We found that just below the spade buried in the wood gives a pinball about center to the guide.

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#8 4 years ago
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dmacy

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Made some holes! Well prepping ones for screw penetrations. My process isn’t efficient or maybe even the “proper” method, but this is how I prep a new or recleared playfield. It works for me and seems to work well.

Using Ron’s bits, I use usually just two of them for prepping holes that get wood screws. The sharp pointed and the baby’s got back bits. The sharp one gets used to get the hole started. Than the baby’s got back for opening the hole. Size up the screw and you may have to open up more. I like my hand countersink tool to give me that opening slightly larger. Than take the drill bit size just smaller than the wood screw (with drill stop but I don’t let the stop get close enough to touch the playfield!) and drill. Blow out the mess and hit with the glue to lock ‘er in. Again, I like to use a pipet rather than the syringe but that’s just my backwards way of working.

Few pics of my Nutty process:

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#9 4 years ago
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dmacy

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Rails and wire posts all installed. Have some screw posts yet to go but saving some for Turtle to work on with me.

Couple pics of where we are today.

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#10 4 years ago
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dmacy

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Have the drilling all done on the top. One hole was missing as shown in the pics. Measured and drilled based on the original.

Installed the original nails...

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1 week later
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#11 4 years ago
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dmacy

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Top side finished less rear arch area.

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#12 4 years ago
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dmacy

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Pop bumper assemblies before cleaning and tumbling

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#13 4 years ago
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dmacy

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The rear arch apron is on. Had to fight getting all the metal parts in. Was holding off as the chrome part had some uglies but came mostly out with some polish and a polish wheel with white rouge. It isn’t seen so it isn’t much of an issue.

I did use some Evaporust in the U channels for that arch that had surface rust. That chrome is more of that industrial chrome that’s slightly shiny. They came out nice after the Evaporust.
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#14 4 years ago
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dmacy

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12y 173K 11,060 1

Started tearing apart the mechs for cleaning. Some as builts:

C9DEFCA3-5E45-4E63-91AE-263439D1FBC4 (resized).jpegC9DEFCA3-5E45-4E63-91AE-263439D1FBC4 (resized).jpeg3A84C6F2-3E91-4462-A135-FDDBEE47ABD4 (resized).jpeg3A84C6F2-3E91-4462-A135-FDDBEE47ABD4 (resized).jpeg9E520A11-3E3C-41EE-BB65-2F270756B231 (resized).jpeg9E520A11-3E3C-41EE-BB65-2F270756B231 (resized).jpeg1DBFFAB1-FEF2-4EB9-9882-07AEBE82E1F6 (resized).jpeg1DBFFAB1-FEF2-4EB9-9882-07AEBE82E1F6 (resized).jpegBB7B6A7C-9DBA-4E59-B9F1-35A13E557AFE (resized).jpegBB7B6A7C-9DBA-4E59-B9F1-35A13E557AFE (resized).jpeg1FE4D0D8-E9AF-4057-A351-5BEC2AE4F945 (resized).jpeg1FE4D0D8-E9AF-4057-A351-5BEC2AE4F945 (resized).jpeg88284650-9109-4778-9863-C455EEB4D136 (resized).jpeg88284650-9109-4778-9863-C455EEB4D136 (resized).jpeg6C18B268-34FC-4915-BCBB-AF647DCE4B67 (resized).jpeg6C18B268-34FC-4915-BCBB-AF647DCE4B67 (resized).jpegBB611842-271F-4899-A96D-03838D026C1C (resized).jpegBB611842-271F-4899-A96D-03838D026C1C (resized).jpegC7F4062A-3595-435B-9892-61D946EC7D8A (resized).jpegC7F4062A-3595-435B-9892-61D946EC7D8A (resized).jpegE297077C-A562-486F-B070-D1A08CE0ED85 (resized).jpegE297077C-A562-486F-B070-D1A08CE0ED85 (resized).jpeg16DBB41A-23D2-4105-9AC3-255363170FDA (resized).jpeg16DBB41A-23D2-4105-9AC3-255363170FDA (resized).jpegE91A93AE-495C-4E52-9126-00A3A2DAF8A8 (resized).jpegE91A93AE-495C-4E52-9126-00A3A2DAF8A8 (resized).jpeg6095C769-06EC-4BB1-AFD4-406929687A0C (resized).jpeg6095C769-06EC-4BB1-AFD4-406929687A0C (resized).jpeg0FC8BE08-0D75-4026-925D-C2CA00AD3B41 (resized).jpeg0FC8BE08-0D75-4026-925D-C2CA00AD3B41 (resized).jpeg8587E06B-CAC6-4683-A1F3-6837D20C565F (resized).jpeg8587E06B-CAC6-4683-A1F3-6837D20C565F (resized).jpeg04CA5F17-31FF-4D4C-84E1-D1F886A004AC (resized).jpeg04CA5F17-31FF-4D4C-84E1-D1F886A004AC (resized).jpegC562827C-EE1F-4B3E-BB15-B05DCCEE9730 (resized).jpegC562827C-EE1F-4B3E-BB15-B05DCCEE9730 (resized).jpeg314DB786-90CE-47B1-B2F6-44A7ADCF7735 (resized).jpeg314DB786-90CE-47B1-B2F6-44A7ADCF7735 (resized).jpegE62D1EC8-D23C-4F50-9430-BCE6EE3DC929 (resized).jpegE62D1EC8-D23C-4F50-9430-BCE6EE3DC929 (resized).jpegFF270834-D017-4A34-BEAA-1F23E4AFA31F (resized).jpegFF270834-D017-4A34-BEAA-1F23E4AFA31F (resized).jpeg
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#15 4 years ago
 
???

kruzman

Kruzman pf's

US Galesburg, MI

12y 112K 3,985 29

You know its extra work to remove the clear like that but I totally know it is worth it. I just think its cool that you will do it for someone else, and not just on your game. Its so hard to get folks to put a little pride in their work. Weather its roto rooter, or the pizza place, now days if they just do what their suppose to do or actually get my order right, I am crazy happy.
More often than not, I am not happy. I just wanted the toilet to drain when I flush. why would you leave the job before flushing it once to see if the water drains out? JEEEZ

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#16 4 years ago
 
???

kruzman

Kruzman pf's

US Galesburg, MI

12y 112K 3,985 29

Non Phillips screws..... so frustrating

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#17 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Getting back to this. Pop bumpers are ready on the top side. We used new caps, covers and skirts.
C62FD79B-0611-4F4C-801E-B634C27718D2 (resized).jpegC62FD79B-0611-4F4C-801E-B634C27718D2 (resized).jpegC3704F9C-7ED7-49B4-B8DC-8D0B4E00633D (resized).jpegC3704F9C-7ED7-49B4-B8DC-8D0B4E00633D (resized).jpeg301C245B-0E0A-43FD-94EE-5D4C22669247 (resized).jpeg301C245B-0E0A-43FD-94EE-5D4C22669247 (resized).jpegE4A285BE-D4B2-4250-8539-26D52E264DC2 (resized).jpegE4A285BE-D4B2-4250-8539-26D52E264DC2 (resized).jpeg

F2743662-9F55-44DB-B1A5-F229E715432A (resized).jpegF2743662-9F55-44DB-B1A5-F229E715432A (resized).jpeg

Post last edited 4 years ago: “Added details and picture.”

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#18 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Bottom side picture of the pop bumpers.

Most of the braid was laid out and attached following the original layout.

Installed the insert bulb holders.

19F486A0-DD08-46D8-98D2-1F8467EA09DD (resized).jpeg19F486A0-DD08-46D8-98D2-1F8467EA09DD (resized).jpeg9C107600-EB4D-4F95-B01F-6D88330EDC8E (resized).jpeg9C107600-EB4D-4F95-B01F-6D88330EDC8E (resized).jpeg39A6396E-1DD0-46A3-A46B-E28030334A8E (resized).jpeg39A6396E-1DD0-46A3-A46B-E28030334A8E (resized).jpegC21CD0F1-2C70-4E86-B179-4BAFFAE9B6D1 (resized).jpegC21CD0F1-2C70-4E86-B179-4BAFFAE9B6D1 (resized).jpeg2F6E0A4B-ECB4-4973-8971-EBAE3C586A1B (resized).jpeg2F6E0A4B-ECB4-4973-8971-EBAE3C586A1B (resized).jpeg05F95278-661F-418F-B197-9C63CD42AFA9 (resized).jpeg05F95278-661F-418F-B197-9C63CD42AFA9 (resized).jpeg
1 week later
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#19 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

The new target face riveted on.

14FF0EE0-B3CB-49FD-A338-2F6E5C624B06 (resized).jpeg14FF0EE0-B3CB-49FD-A338-2F6E5C624B06 (resized).jpegB7D1CD9E-CEBE-4E93-8A4E-F16F42519B3A (resized).jpegB7D1CD9E-CEBE-4E93-8A4E-F16F42519B3A (resized).jpegF3158F49-A894-4095-8FE0-8524BE69871C (resized).jpegF3158F49-A894-4095-8FE0-8524BE69871C (resized).jpeg09E6BC4B-E117-47B7-A03C-C293142300B6 (resized).jpeg09E6BC4B-E117-47B7-A03C-C293142300B6 (resized).jpeg711A3569-8B7D-4174-BD3C-677587E71CA1 (resized).jpeg711A3569-8B7D-4174-BD3C-677587E71CA1 (resized).jpegEE34DE95-488F-46B3-BF1F-F97C1133E627 (resized).jpegEE34DE95-488F-46B3-BF1F-F97C1133E627 (resized).jpegC42FE840-6322-4754-8F1E-013FD498AEC4 (resized).jpegC42FE840-6322-4754-8F1E-013FD498AEC4 (resized).jpeg
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#20 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Wiring harness hand cleaned and the beginning of the reinstall.

413928DC-208C-4F1B-B783-B59F728ADAA5 (resized).jpeg413928DC-208C-4F1B-B783-B59F728ADAA5 (resized).jpeg3D6624F9-3D61-4F88-9DAD-7F4A7C242F83 (resized).jpeg3D6624F9-3D61-4F88-9DAD-7F4A7C242F83 (resized).jpeg9BEB1119-0A0D-4840-A995-4EE39BCE1B38 (resized).jpeg9BEB1119-0A0D-4840-A995-4EE39BCE1B38 (resized).jpeg5A5BC6C9-32D1-4F70-A5B2-5D4234C3EC9C (resized).jpeg5A5BC6C9-32D1-4F70-A5B2-5D4234C3EC9C (resized).jpeg8B9F805F-940C-4DC1-942C-79FB1BC80E1F (resized).jpeg8B9F805F-940C-4DC1-942C-79FB1BC80E1F (resized).jpeg4501EAD4-7DC5-46AB-ACE5-1BD4B9178BD4 (resized).jpeg4501EAD4-7DC5-46AB-ACE5-1BD4B9178BD4 (resized).jpeg74D53B93-DC22-4E48-AA02-3D1D6D11D17D (resized).jpeg74D53B93-DC22-4E48-AA02-3D1D6D11D17D (resized).jpeg
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#21 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Almost all switches and light holders are installed however any soldering of anything hasn’t been done yet. Dimples all seem to be perfect or very close.

64C9F010-81F2-49E9-BEDE-62393165BEEE (resized).jpeg64C9F010-81F2-49E9-BEDE-62393165BEEE (resized).jpeg
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#22 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Here’s some topside views showing switches all installed. Not that you can see much of them here!

This thing shines bright! I’m wondering how much faster this will be playing?

CB09603E-2899-4341-B5BD-27352F600D61 (resized).jpegCB09603E-2899-4341-B5BD-27352F600D61 (resized).jpeg351538CA-4BEA-443E-A000-0A344B332E87 (resized).jpeg351538CA-4BEA-443E-A000-0A344B332E87 (resized).jpeg47205880-BAB9-42DA-996B-FE9245F2868C (resized).jpeg47205880-BAB9-42DA-996B-FE9245F2868C (resized).jpeg5EB4D536-216A-4638-8FA5-16DC1C6476D0 (resized).jpeg5EB4D536-216A-4638-8FA5-16DC1C6476D0 (resized).jpeg88848074-C1DB-44A3-A1E4-2C67D4AA77B0 (resized).jpeg88848074-C1DB-44A3-A1E4-2C67D4AA77B0 (resized).jpegBA24F809-D097-4BCA-9C6E-483B70318E88 (resized).jpegBA24F809-D097-4BCA-9C6E-483B70318E88 (resized).jpegCCC2D86B-C03C-455C-8FFE-5BAF775E6D92 (resized).jpegCCC2D86B-C03C-455C-8FFE-5BAF775E6D92 (resized).jpeg
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#23 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Drop target mechs being taken apart for cleaning.

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#24 4 years ago
 
CRD

chad

Game Guy

11y 140K 15,202 9 4

Can't beat the shiny new playfield and fresh parts.

0
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#25 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Drop assemblies completed other than new switch parts. New drops with new springs installed. Lots of parts make it time consuming for full tear down and assembly but they are extremely well built!
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#26 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Drop target assemblies installed with new switches for playfield side.

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#27 4 years ago
 
CER

Squeakman

Pinside member

US Lake Havasu City, AZ

12y 64,550 3,351 9

If you ever decide to move to Az I have about six games with new playfields ready to be swapped in. I’ll even give you a place to live and nice big work area. always love your restoration threads!

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#28 4 years ago
 
CHK

ckcsm

Pinside member

8y 48,300 414

If your doing all this work you should do the remote mounted resistor modification as outlined on Pinwiki:

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1#Remote_Mounted_Transistor

Some System 1 games went beyond the threshold of 8 controlled solenoids total. The first game to do as such was Joker Poker. There are 4 drop target banks on the game, but only 3 solenoid drivers are available. To overcome this issue, a remote mounted 2N5875 transistor was added under the playfield, and an MPS-A13 lamp transistor was used to pre-drive the remote mounted transistor.
In other cases, Gottlieb® didn't run out controlled solenoid transistors. Instead, they chose to "beef up" the solenoid drive by using a 2N6043 as a pre-drive transistor. System 1 games which use remote mounted transistors are listed in the table below. If a game is not listed in this table, then it does not use remotely mounted under-playfield transistors.

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#29 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Sounds like a good idea. It will be up to the owner if he wants to do this or not. This swap isn’t much work at all to be totally honest though.

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#30 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Quoted from Squeakman:

If you ever decide to move to Az I have about six games with new playfields ready to be swapped in. I’ll even give you a place to live and nice big work area. always love your restoration threads!

Thanks man! I love AZ but my wife and employer would not be happy!

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#31 4 years ago
 
CHK

ckcsm

Pinside member

8y 48,300 414

Unfortunately I found out the hard way on my Joker Poker, it will damage your board if it fails, here is the reply from Pascal Janin on a recently installed board:

you are actually facing the most common failure with Joker Poker: the PNP transistor under the playfield, which resets the K drop targets, fails and sends coils high voltage upwards, causing damage to the board.

I may still an extra resistor, let me know I'll send you one if you want it.

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#32 4 years ago
 
AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

US Louisville, KY

8y 74,050 2,534 6

Phenomenal work, man!

0
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#33 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Been at it the last few days doing a little solder each evening. It’s finally getting close. And I cannot believe it took me this long to figure out this solder trick.

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1 week later
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#34 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Been slow as we were doing coil labels, cleaning coils, then I found two coils needed replaced (I broke one I think!), etc. but almost done.

Relay bracket got new rubbers and mounted. Pretty click how they fit in the groove at the tab and locked in with the clip.

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#35 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

New coils and labels are here. Making some progress. The finish line is nearly here!

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#36 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Last of mechanisms: flippers and upper flipper. I have some soldering and adjustments to wrap up, but mostly complete.

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#37 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

Short of us testing in the machine, this one is completed.

8B3C2C25-3F31-4B7C-9826-F5D1A3F0BAC1 (resized).jpeg8B3C2C25-3F31-4B7C-9826-F5D1A3F0BAC1 (resized).jpeg
0
4
4
#38 4 years ago
OP
 
DRM

dmacy

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 173K 11,060 1

GI tested and good.

269B220E-30AC-4F07-97C2-D1753850B838 (resized).jpeg269B220E-30AC-4F07-97C2-D1753850B838 (resized).jpegA3ECCA37-13B8-459B-AA34-BA7E15FC4D83 (resized).jpegA3ECCA37-13B8-459B-AA34-BA7E15FC4D83 (resized).jpeg2A68F50B-2F52-4681-9D4A-98E613449EBC (resized).jpeg2A68F50B-2F52-4681-9D4A-98E613449EBC (resized).jpeg
3 months later
0
2
2
#39 3 years ago
 
???

kimbleseven

Inactive member

AU Adelaide

8y 33,300 124 5

Great thread. Thanks for the in-depth advice with your way to use the kruzman kit. Will be doing a not so high end CPR joker poker swap and your info and advice has been very helpful

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