8 Ball
Williams, 1966
All-Star Basketball
Gottlieb, 1952
Cue Ball
Williams, 1956
Cue-T
Williams, 1968
Derby Day
Gottlieb, 1956
Fan-Tas-Tic
Williams, 1972
Freedom EM
Bally, 1976
Hawaiian Beauty
Gottlieb, 1954I'm going to be a real buzzkill on this one. I'm a serious player of EM machines, and I avoid all games that don't have a standard flipper layout. Kind of like the way playing baseball really messes up your golf swing, I find that these 'off' games interfere with my well established and practiced day-to-day techniques. Just a couple of games of waiting for the ball to bounce off something that's in between my flippers, and my timing and reactions are shot for a while.
Quoted from NicoVolta:FYI... if you would be interested in a Freedom prototype conversion kit (new playfield, plastics, parts, and instructions) click the like button on this reply. We'd need to get to about 30 commitments to make this a reality. Could be done with enough interest.
Am I too late to the party (the Freedom prototytpe conversion kit)? I have a non-prototype I'd love to convert.
Quoted from NicoVolta:Not at all. Will add you to the list. It will be a while before this is launched, but it will happen.
I’d be interested in a playfield and plastics but I don’t need the other stuff since mine already has a middle pop. Could I get on the list for these?
Quoted from NicoVolta:Done. Lucky you!
Great, Thanks!
Who is making the playfields? I don't suppose you could make a variation that's more like my early-prototype playfield with red arrows, slightly different center text, and blind eagles?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/join-the-middle-pop-club/page/5#post-4358849
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/join-the-middle-pop-club/page/5#post-4356114
It will most likely be a custom CPR run. No idea on the version we will use. The lack of explanation text for earning bonus on the 500 spaces and 3 advance is a bit confusing. Why did I get bonus? 3 advances what?
White arrows would allow people the choice of using different color LED's underneath, if they so choose. Alternating red/blue might be interesting as it spins... might have to try it and see.
We might embrace an updated look. Maybe +1 BONUS instead of ADVANCE BONUS all squished in there next to the 500 spaces. Might also flip the labels 3 BONUS ADVANCE to read ADVANCE 3 BONUS. Same font of course. It would look as original as possible.
I think I like the blind eagles better. Looks more classic American art vs. turning them into cartoons.
We can pretty much do whatever we want as long as it 1) stays true to the spirit of the original and 2) is an improvement people like.
Freedom prototype owners, where do you have your adjustable posts set? I think I want to liberalize my outlanes so I can reach 100K more often.
Currently on mine:
The posts under the middle pop are both on liberal.
Under the minuteman plastic on the right, both the upper post (by the kick out hole) and the lower post are on medium.
The post above the left outlane is on medium.
The posts below the outlane openings are both on conservative. I want to change these to either middle or liberal.
What are your recommendations for these or the others?
Quoted from DropTarget:Just joined with a Spanish Eyes.
Although, I don't know if you can call this one a middle pop just yet.
[quoted image]
Nice game. One of my favorites in my collection.
Quoted from Ace24:Freedom prototype owners, where do you have your adjustable posts set? I think I want to liberalize my outlanes so I can reach 100K more often.
Currently on mine:
The posts under the middle pop are both on liberal.
Under the minuteman plastic on the right, both the upper post (by the kick out hole) and the lower post are on medium.
The post above the left outlane is on medium.
The posts below the outlane openings are both on conservative. I want to change these to either middle or liberal.
What are your recommendations for these or the others?
I've got one in storage and the other in a project queue. Can't check at the moment... d'oh!
Quoted from kguenther6:Nice game. One of my favorites in my collection.
I'm looking forward to playing it. Just waiting on some parts that should arrive in a few days.
Quoted from setzkor:And that's a pretty clean looking playfield...missing pops aside...
Thanks,
Here's a "before" pic...
IMG_1433 (resized).JPGQuoted from DropTarget:Thanks,
Here's a "before" pic...[quoted image]
Now that one looks more familiar. Nice work!
I've had more project Spanish Eyes slip through my fingers than any other pin on my wishlist. Congrats!
Quoted from NicoVolta:I've got one in storage and the other in a project queue. Can't check at the moment... d'oh!
I moved the posts at the top of the lower plastics to medium and I think that's as far as I'll go with them. Now getting more outlane saves (of course) leading to --> more extra balls from clearing the drop targets & more spinner hits back to the top. 100K is still a challenge!
I’m not sure how I feel about this conversion. I’m curious how they made up for the roulette wheel in the rule set.
Quoted from Murphdom:I’m not sure how I feel about this conversion. I’m curious how they made up for the roulette wheel in the rule set.
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/105796
Got to give him an A in ingenuity but the new feature makes it feel less like an EM to me after watching the video.
Like putting a scoop of ice cream on a good steak.
Quoted from Murphdom:I’m not sure how I feel about this conversion. I’m curious how they made up for the roulette wheel in the rule set.
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/105796
Likes:
Increased middle-pop power.
Speeding up of wheel result. Keeps the action moving.
High score & initials option.
Dislikes:
I miss the chimes. Don't like the machine gun clicking or music as replacement.
Light flashes & glowing effects lag the action... distracting. Call attention to what *is* happening, not what *was* happening.
Pixelated animations don't jibe with the original art or theme. I could imagine a 3D rendered roulette wheel in there w/professional titling, but that's a bit more work.
Overall:
Needs a good bit of refinement & tweaking. EM conversions can work well, but a lot of care must be taken to preserve the original feel.
This project has the skeleton but the rest would require a lot of work to get it there. Not sure who would be willing to take this on for $2000. Especially with so much to potentially be learned by building one from scratch for a similar cost.
I hope someone will take it to completion. Could be an interesting game with more work.
In my mind these conversions add no real value. I always get the impression it's someone that has no interest in learning EM repair but wants to play around with their Raspberry Pi. That's fine but you may as well keep it for the long haul. Being an EM guy I see this as a $100-$200 parts game now. If this game came missing the motor board or something I can understand making something playable out of it but that doesn't make it worth $2k. My opinion of course...
Quoted from AlexF:In my mind these conversions add no real value. I always get the impression it's someone that has no interest in learning EM repair but wants to play around with their Raspberry Pi. That's fine but you may as well keep it for the long haul. Being an EM guy I see this as a $100-$200 parts game now. If this game came missing the motor board or something I can understand making something playable out of it but that doesn't make it worth $2k. My opinion of course...
Yeah.. I did a similar 'solid state' conversion on an EM early on, eventually sold it for about what it'd be worth as a broken EM. And I made sure to retain all the EM relays/etc so that the next seller could (and did) convert it back to an EM. Same with a retheme.. you've got to do a really good job to even hope to maintain the same value, let alone add value
Hey middle poppers, just popping in to mention that I have a new middle pop game to join my Spanish Eyes, and 749 other people are also potential club members, because Spooky Pinball is over halfway through their run of 750 Rick and Mortys!
And what a fun pop it is! It's where one usually finds the left slingshot!
R&M also has a U-turn like Spanish Eyes, except it's also used as a physical ball lock, thanks to two drop targets that can trap the balls in the U! It's so cool!
Quoted from DanQverymuch:Hey middle poppers, just popping in to mention that I have a new middle pop game to join my Spanish Eyes, and 749 other people are also potential club members, because Spooky Pinball is over halfway through their run of 750 Rick and Mortys!
And what a fun pop it is! It's where one usually finds the left slingshot!
R&M also has a U-turn like Spanish Eyes, except it's also used as a physical ball lock, thanks to two drop targets that can trap the balls in the U! It's so cool!
Hehe well I think what you've got there is actually a Satin popper!
Always cool to see new games use unusual placements of pops. TNA's right side location shook up the status quo & glad to see R&M taking chances as well. But not quite a middle-pop! Haven't seen any moderns go there yet.
Quoted from NicoVolta:Middle-pop pinball machines feature an uncommon but fun layout: A pop bumper between the flippers!
Oh yeah, that middle. Whoops! I should have verified the definition before dragging R&M into the conversation. I had myself thinking it meant any pop below the middle of the playfield or something.
In my defense, the similarities were very pronounced when I brought R&M downstairs and it coincidentally got set up right next to Spanish Eyes. If I planned that, it was subconsciously!
Will I get in trouble if I suggest that off to one side is even uncommoner and funner? A lot of similar action, but lets the rest of the game feel more typical, playwise? Sorry, I'm just warming up to make a slew of posts in the R&M thread, I guess.
Quoted from DanQverymuch:Will I get in trouble if I suggest that off to one side is even uncommoner and funner?
Uncommoner and funner? Ha, I like the bold new Dan. 
Well why not. Middle-pops and weird-pops welcome. I like seeing unusual placements of pop bumpers.
I do think Jumping Jack, Old Chicago, and Crescendo should be honorary guests too. Not quite middle-pops, but the unusual placement offers similarly unexpected (and fun) kicks!
Quoted from Murphdom:I joined the middle poop club today
Now I have two of these guys.
[quoted image][quoted image]
I want to give a thumbs-up...
I really do...
...but man... you got some work to do!
Quoted from NicoVolta:I want to give a thumbs-up...
I really do...
...but man... you got some work to do!
I’ll figure something out between these two below. I haven’t opened up the mouse tomb yet but the exterior isn’t as bad as it looks once I vacuumed it. The other one is decent. I’m afraid to open the playfield of the mouse tomb. I can smell it already.
8E4E887B-F99B-4BF4-9195-96B8AB59A46B (resized).jpegBA67164E-487A-4F20-9483-0EA0044E076E (resized).jpeg
I opened the mouse sarcophagus and made a quick sweep. There is no smell other than the typical EM smell and very little evidence that anything was even there besides near the coin door. I’ll have to take the bottom board out in better light another day to investigate further. I have a dark basement so we will see.
if anyone wants to join, or add to their club membership....
Bally Safari
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/434869527554535/?ref=search&referral_code=undefined
Not mine.
safari (resized).pngQuoted from FLASHBALL:Seen this one pop up in NY today if anyone is looking.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Pinball4sale/permalink/4286442481382518/?sale_post_id=4286442481382518
Group seems to be private
I finally got my Miss-O all cleaned up and working....wow that middle pop bumper sure makes for some crazy gameplay! I have to learn how to nudge it correctly, but sometimes it can recover a ball that is already below the pop.
I am having a problem though. The right side "Mystery Spot when lit" light won't come on. The left side works fine and the points work accurately so it appears to be a light wiring problem. Meter shows that its getting 2 volts instead of 6. I'm trying to trace it down but can't find the light anywhere on the schematic.
IMG_5532 (resized).jpgIMG_5533 (resized).jpgNice game! Miss-O sits squarely between Magic City and Spanish Eyes... combining the basic layout and 2” flippers of the former with the horseshoe layout of the latter.
Could it be the lamp socket itself? In need of the tip solder trick? Or maybe a dirty jones plug connection?
mark532011 you might want to start a thread just for this bug. Beautiful machine! That’s my wife’s favorite and we have a “players version” with lots of wear. I’d love to trade up to one in that condition.
The light you’re looking for is on the schematic at B-9. It’s the R-Eject and L-Eject lights, driven by the change relay. It could be a dirty or misadjusted switch on the change relay, or the socket itself. The scoring also goes through the change relay contacts to the mystery advance at 13-G.
Dave
Thanks. That got it. Misadjusted change relay. It was confusing as one light worked but the other did not. It was one of those 3 contact switches. Obvious in hindsight. Duh!
I do not know if this pin has been mentioned yet or even qualifies
But 1949 from Exhibit: Carolina has a pop bumper below and between the flippers which are located mid field
https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=457&picno=22709
pasted_image (resized).png
Notes: The flippers are located above the #9 and #10 bumpers.
First game from this manufacturer with pop bumpers.
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