John Popadiuk's Magic Girl blog is now open!

(Topic ID: 120522)

John Popadiuk's Magic Girl blog is now open!


By Pinballfantexas

3 years ago



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  • 110 posts
  • 66 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Star_Gazer
  • Topic is favorited by 19 Pinsiders

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There are 110 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 3 years ago

I think John went overboard with design, not having a short/hard corporate deadline or restrictive BoM. But is that a bad thing? (apart from wanting the game sooner!) The game will have great shots and ball movement--no worries there. The bright side is, we're no longer in the old B/W days where games had a short development schedule and had to ship with hard-coded software. Programming talent is out there and improvement updates are easy via usb etc. (e. g. woz, acdc, met...) So MG could be the "total jpop package." And RAZA looks to be in the same class too...

Good comments about the small run, which really limits profits. Expanding the run has been discussed and continues to be, but a big concern is keeping the original customers happy and their games 'special.' Nothing has been decided yet, but there are possibilities. Maybe for both games? Lots of things developing these days with the push to finish both titles.

#52 3 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Expanding the run has been discussed and continues to be, but a big concern is keeping the original customers happy ...

If John is going to make more games than he originally claimed he would, then the original pre-order people need to be compensated in a major way. I'm not in on MG, but I am in on RAZA. If John were to suddenly say that he is making twice the amount of RAZAs, then I would expect a very large discount on the game. I just don't see any other logical way to address the issue.

#53 3 years ago

I wonder how many MG original 19 are actually even fully paid at this point? Probably not all so how hard would it be to discount them some..
this game needs to be shared by more than just 19.. 100 sounds better..
And agree sell extra back glasses, play fields, plastic sets and LE artwork posters to raise more cash!

#54 3 years ago

Stunning..absolutely stunning...

-JR

#55 3 years ago

How would you prepurchase buys feel about some form of profit sharing in exchange for opening up the production numbers? You guys are essentially investors already. Would you prefer to keep the run to 20 or let it be 100 or more with a slice of the new games from here on out? I don't think JPOP would do this but just thought it was an interesting thought.

Another idea could be to give progressive discounts to original owners for each production threashold crossed.
$500 back after every 10 new games produced. If the run expanded to 100 that would be $5,000 back

The cost to JPOP would be $100,000 to pay back the initial ~20 prebuyers, but he will make ~$1.6 million more in total revenue. If I was an early buyer I would be happy to get such a big discount. And the community could enjoy an unlimited run of what looks to be an amazing game!

#56 3 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

If John is going to make more games than he originally claimed he would, then the original pre-order people need to be compensated in a major way. I'm not in on MG, but I am in on RAZA. If John were to suddenly say that he is making twice the amount of RAZAs, then I would expect a very large discount on the game. I just don't see any other logical way to address the issue.

Agree 100% and as I mentioned, John is VERY sensitive to keeping customers happy and really appreciates everyone (customers, vendors, volunteers, consultants) who have been supporting him. If either game had an expanded production run, there would be major (and deserved) compensation. Monetary discounts seem feasible for sure, based on the numbers alone. And I think making the original games as LEs with various unique features (artwork, toys) is a no-brainer. And maybe other goodies--original development artwork, priority/discounts on future titles, etc. Anything would be considered. And suggestions are always welcome! I'll be happy to forward any ideas to John, although he would probably contact all customers directly if/when this becomes a serious consideration.

From what I've seen, John has gone all-out on these 2 titles with never-before-seen toys, artwork, audio, design, etc. All without the 'corporate' limitations. Personally, I think it would be cool if everyone who wanted an MG or RAZA could get one. But the original customers did buy in to a very limited production. If things are changed, I hope it will be a win-win for all. Again, just sharing my personal thoughts here, and not speaking for John in any capacity at all here.

Quoted from pinballpete:

How would you prepurchase buys feel about some form of profit sharing in exchange for opening up the production numbers? You guys are essentially investors already. Would you prefer to keep the run to 20 or let it be 100 or more with a slice of the new games from here on out? I don't think JPOP would do this but just thought it was an interesting thought.
Another idea could be to give progressive discounts to original owners for each production threashold crossed.
$500 back after every 10 new games produced. If the run expanded to 100 that would be $5,000 back
The cost to JPOP would be $100,000 to pay back the initial ~20 prebuyers, but he will make ~$1.6 million more in total revenue. If I was an early buyer I would be happy to get such a big discount. And the community could enjoy an unlimited run of what looks to be an amazing game!

One thought I have (for MG in particular) is that the list price could certainly be dropped a fair amount if the run were expanded. That, plus LE status and an even further discount for the original customers seems to make sense financially, as the development cost could easily be spread over a much larger number of games. Again, just my personal thoughts here.

#57 3 years ago
Quoted from Hitch9:

I agree. He first was introduced as someone "dedicated to keep the spirit of pinball alive". He seems to be going the wrong way of doing that. 12 or 20 machines, to collectors doesn't accomplish that goal. Maybe for the few people that actually get to see it, but not if you want to keep the spirit of pinball alive for the masses. Not only that, if he sinks his company by doing so, he can't keep that spirit alive, if he is broke.

exactly, there is a guy a couple hours away that ordered one and is going to be charging $40/play

no thanks

I own every JPoP machine (WCS, ToM, ToTAN, CV, SWEP1) and I don't care about this one at all because chances are I will never even see one, let alone afford one... which is sad because it looks incredible

"keeping it alive" should not be "keeping it super elite/exclusive" those are kind of opposites

I am very disappointed/saddened in JPoPs decisions here

#58 3 years ago

Looks cool

Too bad this isn't a real game

By real I mean available to operators & collectors like a real production game

Something tells me 10+ out of the 19 games won't even be opened

This isn't a game you play... It's a game you sell.

Looks super dope tho!

#59 3 years ago

You gotta understand if the initial release was say 300 then that's 300 people you have to keep happy.
It's easier to keep 19 people on board and the daunting task of building them.
It's better to start small and scale up when needed.

John I think really understands this.
The first time I went to Zidware I was suprised how small the facility was SQ ft
He filled it till he was out of room once that happened he got the space next to him and combined the shop.
StevenP has some great suggestions, I would only suggest that if the MG limit is increased he produce RAZA before the second run of 30 MG. Though it's inefficient in production, RAZA folks have been on board for a long time.

#60 3 years ago

I'd consider Magic Girl a loss leader - produce the games as promised, then go unlimited on future games.

Or, ask the owners if it would be okay to open it up to 50 units.

#61 3 years ago

I don't think you can increase MG any more than has been done. It was sold on a limited premise, is what it is. RAZA though, being so much less limited, could probably find a creative solution. Like original buyers get an LE cabinet design or something.

#62 3 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

Looks cool
Too bad this isn't a real game
By real I mean available to operators & collectors like a real production game
Something tells me 10+ out of the 19 games won't even be opened
This isn't a game you play... It's a game you sell.
Looks super dope tho!

it's tragic how great this game looks, since, I agree with the first part of your statement 100%

and while RAZA could be neat I guess, I covet my trilogy more than any of my games, if MG was considered part of it (and borrows a lot from the other three) not being able to ever have it really sucks and kind of devalues the three to me... since now the "collection" can never be complete

#63 3 years ago

No way is JPOP gonna honor 20 games. Once those guys have got their pins, the doors will be flung wide open to anybody who wants to buy. Just you watch.

What would you rather do - keep 20 people happy for years and years of hard work, or piss them off in return for selling hundreds of games and making some millions?

Be realistic. No one would do that.

-8
#64 3 years ago

Why would the original 20 be mad? Shouldn't we all be happy to see a great pin out there and enjoyed? This title is not even a collectible because nobody after waiting this long would ever sell their game.

#65 3 years ago

They were sold a limited collectible table and paid a hefty premium for that!

-6
#66 3 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

They were sold a limited collectible table and paid a hefty premium for that!

Yeah but what if John underpriced the game because he had no idea how much was required to get it right. If you ask me, MG should have been 20-25k and he would still have sold 20

#67 3 years ago

The original 20 people who preorder MG preordered expecting to get the next holy grail pin and paid a large premium for it. What is the pin worth if the run is 100 or 300 or more and how many people are in at that price?

#68 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballpete:

How would you prepurchase buys feel about some form of profit sharing in exchange for opening up the production numbers? You guys are essentially investors already. Would you prefer to keep the run to 20 or let it be 100 or more with a slice of the new games from here on out? I don't think JPOP would do this but just thought it was an interesting thought.
Another idea could be to give progressive discounts to original owners for each production threashold crossed.
$500 back after every 10 new games produced. If the run expanded to 100 that would be $5,000 back
The cost to JPOP would be $100,000 to pay back the initial ~20 prebuyers, but he will make ~$1.6 million more in total revenue. If I was an early buyer I would be happy to get such a big discount. And the community could enjoy an unlimited run of what looks to be an amazing game!

something along those lines.. brilliant! whatever it takes to get some manufacturing-production power going on. said in other thread I like his art and designs, getting product out the door seems the problem. I think your idea could unwrap a lot of issues for people doing pre-order stuff, going in at a high price with potential rebates-returns, "like" a shareholder but not. there could be a base price similar to an Ebay "reserve not met", if production goes well your 15k machine might cost 9.
after the production facility is together banging out product, the idea could be abandoned, or not!
we'd see price drops (to a point) on popular machines being ordered, if demand drops off announce a final "to be produced" number, maybe slightly higher priced to see if there are still takers..
it wouldnt be a disappointment to pre-order folks if they know it's the deal when going in.

#69 3 years ago

I want more color.
Red please.
Thats what i think.

But........ its beautiful i am a fan of John.

#70 3 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

If John is going to make more games than he originally claimed he would, then the original pre-order people need to be compensated in a major way. I'm not in on MG, but I am in on RAZA. If John were to suddenly say that he is making twice the amount of RAZAs, then I would expect a very large discount on the game. I just don't see any other logical way to address the issue.

Same basic game, change the art a little bit, take a feature or two off and sell 1000s. LE vs pro ???

#71 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

And just because everyone could buy a backglass wouldn't get them the game.

Not to mention it would create a nice backstock of NOS parts for the 19 owners or whatever floating around that will need a replacement glass in 15 years.

#72 3 years ago

What if he increased the amount of produced Magic Girls by a certain number as well as lowering the price point overall and refunded the original 20 the difference and gave them something else only they could get for backing him from the start ? It would still be rare as heck at anything around 50-100 total and all could be in for less. There are over 190 of those and you never see them and their rarity as blown their value up.

#73 3 years ago

I know it seems counterproductive to cut the cost of the product when money is maybe keeping the company from being lucrative, but increasing the amount made will well more than cover that and help move forward, while at the same time maybe soften the blow to the original investors...?

#74 3 years ago

Let Stern build the game and give the original investors their machine for free.

#75 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Let Stern build the game and give the original investors their machine for free.

Maybe not free, but perhaps 50% off what everyone else is paying for the game. One thing is certain. If the production run is increased, JPop will have no other choice but to offer some serious compensation to the original pre-orders. I say let them choose between staying in at the reduced price, or getting a full refund. I'm guessing you would still have a small handful of people that would be upset, but I think this would satisfy most buyers.

#76 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Let Stern build the game and give the original investors their machine for free.

Hell no - Stern "quality" seems like the antithesis of what Jpop is trying to do. Not sure how those in on MG or RAZA feel, but if Stern builds AIW I won't buy it.

#77 3 years ago
Quoted from notaflyingtoy:

Not sure how those in on MG or RAZA feel, but if Stern builds AIW I won't buy it.

At this point, we just want our games built, period. If having Stern build them accomplishes this, then I'm all for it.

#78 3 years ago

I think jpop is way too paranoid to let Stern anywhere near his game.

#79 3 years ago
Quoted from notaflyingtoy:

Hell no - Stern "quality" seems like the antithesis of what Jpop is trying to do.

What the hell are you talking about????

Stern builds way higher quality machines than Bally or Williams ever did in their heyday.

I was there, I was unboxing them, and fixing them on route.

There would always be a ton of things wrong directly out of the box. Even the ball guides would often have to be adjusted to even get the game to smoothly play.

#80 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

What the hell are you talking about????
Stern builds way higher quality machines than Bally or Williams ever did in their heyday.
I was there, I was unboxing them, and fixing them on route.
There would always be a ton of things wrong directly out of the box. Even the ball guides would often have to be adjusted to even get the game to smoothly play.

Get with the narrative vid, Williams games were perfect gems that came with a coin box pre-filled with quarters from the factory to help you get your route started, and Stern games are made from cardboard thinner than the boxes they come in.

#81 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Get with the narrative vid, Williams games were perfect gems that came with a coin box pre-filled with quarters from the factory to help you get your route started, and Stern games are made from cardboard thinner than the boxes they come in.

Well, let's be honest - the first generation of Stern games after taking over from Sega were shit. I know, because I pulled both WMS and Stern games out of their boxes and set them up, and I even bought a bunch of early Sterns. Just awful, much worse than the WMS games.

I've unboxed CV, NGG, CC, MB and a few more and all worked perfectly right out.

Unboxing High Roller Casino vs. TRON:LE was like night and day.

#82 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I was there, I was unboxing them, and fixing them on route.

I was there too, I was the kid at the local arcade patiently waiting for a new pin to play (and pay) until a Coin op would make sure the game was running properly because they knew it would need some "adjustments"...

#83 3 years ago

Games like TAF were always a nightmare out of the box.

The auto burn in was great for seeing what would shake loose, before we would deploy.

#84 3 years ago

Hey look a game that only 19 people will own, nothing to see here people, move along. This pin will go great with Krug Clos d’Ambonnay and caviar.

-2
#85 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Games like TAF were always a nightmare out of the box.
The auto burn in was great for seeing what would shake loose, before we would deploy.

Well that's just BS, my TAF went straight out of the box into the arcade and it worked perfectly. Except for a DMD that prematurely failed, I have never had a major issue with it after countless plays.

#86 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

What the hell are you talking about????
Stern builds way higher quality machines than Bally or Williams ever did in their heyday.
I was there, I was unboxing them, and fixing them on route.
There would always be a ton of things wrong directly out of the box. Even the ball guides would often have to be adjusted to even get the game to smoothly play.

What does Bally or Williams have to do with what he said?

Even if what you say is true (and I'm not saying it isn't), that doesn't mean that what JPop is trying to achieve isn't heads and shoulders above the mass production quality that Stern is doing.

The quote you were responding to didn't say one word about B/W, and wasn't the issue at all.

#87 3 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

At this point, we just want our games built, period. If having Stern build them accomplishes this, then I'm all for it.

Sure you are...at this point.

But I bet you wouldn't have agreed to pay $10k when you first signed on to this project if you knew Stern was going to be the one building the pin.

#88 3 years ago

This game is looking amazing. I will not have one but hope to someday play one.
Design concepts alone is as impressive as the art to me.

#89 3 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

But I bet you wouldn't have agreed to pay $10k when you first signed on to this project if you knew Stern was going to be the one building the pin.

What would be the difference in "value" if Stern took a pile of Jpops parts and assembled them - or if some guys Jpop hires, assembles a a pile of Jpop's parts?

Would you not think that Stern's employees have more experience assembling and QCing games?

#90 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

What would be the difference in "value" if Stern took a pile of Jpops parts and assembled them - or if some guys Jpop hires assembles a a pile of Jpop's parts?
Would you not think that Stern's employees have more experience assembling and QCing games?

but stern is evil bad!!! waaahhh!!

#91 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I think jpop is way too paranoid to let Stern anywhere near his game.

And on the flip side I don't think Stern wants anything to do with JPop. There's a reason he hasn't been contracted to design a game for them despite living in close proximity...

#92 3 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

And on the flip side I don't think Stern wants anything to do with JPop. There's a reason he hasn't been contracted to design a game for them despite living in close proximity...

Even if Stern feels that Jpop is too flaky and slow to hire as a designer, they can still take his parts and build his machines.

#93 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Even if Stern feels that Jpop is too flaky and slow to hire as a designer, they can still take his parts and build his machines.

It's not as simple as just taking parts and building machines.... If that were the case MMR would have been built a year ago. If JPop was flaky and slow as a designer I'd be willing to bet he'd be flaky and slow as a project manager. Stern would still need someone to do the kind of work that PPS and CC is doing to get a new game/platform on the line. I have a feeling JPop would take a year just designing the artwork for the box that the game shipped in. Stern wouldn't put up with that!

#94 3 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I have a feeling JPop would take a year just designing the artwork for the box that the game shipped in. Stern wouldn't put up with that!

Exactly!

Quoted from MikeS:

It's not as simple as just taking parts and building machines.... If that were the case MMR would have been built a year ago.

Nothing is simple or easy in pinball manufacturing, lol

#95 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Nothing is simple or easy in pinball manufacturing, lol

aint' that the truth!

#96 3 years ago
Quoted from cougtv:

Same basic game, change the art a little bit, take a feature or two off and sell 1000s. LE vs pro ???

The good news is there are plenty of art options already available for the "pro" model.

#97 3 years ago

I hope in my ventures I get to play one of these JPop machines. So cool.

#98 3 years ago

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

#99 3 years ago

image.jpg

#100 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

What would be the difference in "value" if Stern took a pile of Jpops parts and assembled them - or if some guys Jpop hires, assembles a a pile of Jpop's parts?
Would you not think that Stern's employees have more experience assembling and QCing games?

Oh, let me be clear: I would absolutely put way more faith in "some guys JPop hires" putting together RAZA under the direction/supervision of JPop than I would having Stern employees do it.

No brainer. I've seen enough crap QC from Stern to put little value in their "experience" in that regard.

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