Layout looks like a cross between Simpsons and WOZ. Im excited to try it out!
(Topic ID: 224963)
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Oktoberfest
American Pinball, 2018
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5 months later
I finally got a chance to see and play an Oktoberfest today at the Blue Moon Bar in Madison (Thanks Jim!). I thought the game and the art looked nice in person. It kind of reminded me of a 90's WPC game or a JJP game with all the toys and features. Being part German and living in Wisconsin and being a beer drinker makes me appreciate the original theme as well.
I played 9 games on it over the course of about an hour and a half and think i got to experience most of what the game had to offer. Game times were rather long, even with the center post removed. This is probably needed as the game has a lot of modes to get through. I really enjoyed the layout on this game and just the sheer number of targets and things to shoot for. The orbit shots flowed nicely, the left ramp was fun and satisfying to hit and watch the ball spiral back to your right flipper for a repeatable shot. The side-ramp is difficult to hit without the assistance of mag-nabs. I was able to hit it a few times on the fly, but it's really tough! The mag-nab feature is awesome and fun to use. I also really like that you can sweep all of the "Oktober" targets with a single shot if you hit it just right. The spinner felt a bit "Data East" like and just didn't seem to rip as much as I would like. Overall though I really liked how the game shoots.
The rules/strategy on the game is sort of a mixed bag for me. I like some parts of it but dislike other parts. I really like the strategy behind collecting steins and think this is implemented well. I think the modes in their current form could use some work to make them more interesting and perhaps more valuable. I also think it might be a good idea to not allow modes to be repeated as that would also add strategy as to when it is best to cache in on certain modes. With the way it is now I would carry-in something like "Fud Frenzy" every time before starting a multiball. And use "juggler" to grind away on progress. I don't think i would ever willingly pick a mode like "Stein Race" as it's a surefire way to lose your ball since you have to play with one hand. It just didn't seem like playing some of the modes (in single ball play) were worth it as far as the points payoff goes. My strategy was basically to get a multiball ready, boost the multiball jackpot value by collecting the stein, and then start "Fud Frenzy" before hitting your third lock and then caching in.
The good news on the game is nearly everything i dislike about the game can be fixed in code. The display animations are obviously the weak point and the modes can be tweaked and made non-repeatable to make them better and less exploitable. Overall I had a lot of fun and think the game is a solid 2nd effort by American Pinball!
It's pretty cool that after playing a game it shows you a summary of your progress and statistics such as game time and points per second as well as how many tent modes you started.
IMG_20190403_145025 (resized).jpgQuoted from Ferret:Oooh, did you do this? It's really hard but hella satisfying. I've legitimately done it only once, and was thoroughly surprised as the whole bank of lights promptly lit up.
I only did this once in my 9 games, but it was extremely cool and satisfying to see it happen! I do really like the narrower targets and it's fun being able to pick off numerous standups on a single shot.-even when you don't sweep them all.
Can you provide some details of which modes you thought weren't interesting? We tried really hard to have modes that would make use of every feature on the playfield, and also incorporate subtle features to offer surprises and strategies for each of them. A couple examples: Füd Frenzy looks like a typical switch frenzy. But the switch value increases by each distinct switch you hit. You can sit there and just rip the spinner a lot, that's some good switch action... but it'll be worth a lot more if you hit a wide variety of other switches first. Bumper Cars looks like a "super pops" sort of mode, and it is somewhat... but its value increases by hitting the top slingshot. Best way to do that? Shoot that slingshot from the upper flipper. How many games reward you for shooting a slingshot with a flipper? Rotor seems like a typical "shoot the roving shot" mode, but point values multiply with the number of distinct shots you make... etc etc etc... there are a lot of details that may not be immediately obvious, but once you know what's going on, you can take advantage of them to maximize your results.
And all that is before considering the effect of steins on modes. Each stein multiplies the scoring of a specific tent mode, and also has some global power-up effect. The steins with the most useful global power-ups probably do not boost the tents that you would most like to boost. Choose wisely.Thanks for the explanation. Now that you describe more of the details it makes it more apparent that there is more to do within the modes. I can see how there can be 5-6 different modes that can be lucrative to carry into a multiball. I suppose any of the target modes or Bumper Cars would be good for this. I was having good success with Fud Frenzy but there may possibly be even more lucrative modes to stack. I think where I wasn't finding them interesting was just playing them on their own without and kind of booster or multiball involved. Something like Bumper Cars just didn't seem worth it to play on it's own. I wasn't getting a ton of pop action on the game and often the right orbit is stopped by the magnet. Same goes for the Spinner mode. I do like the rules on that one and how the other orbit can accelerate the spinner value, but it just seemed like the spinner wasn't juicy enough to score a lot of points.-and the magnet on right orbit would often impede its progress. If someone could mod the spinner to rotate better I think it would be a fun mode. I only played the Stein Race mode once and had a pretty quick drain because my brain didn't pickup how to play that way quick enough. Maybe it would be better if it gave you an option to play it with standard flipper buttons but for 1/2 points? I'm not a huge fan of video modes in general and while I don't think the mode is bad I didn't particularly enjoy it. It was also hard to tell how full the beer mugs were on the display. -maybe this could be zoomed in the mugs a bit more?
You can only replay tent modes if you haven't won them. And you really really want to win tent modes. Winning tent modes awards progressively more ducks (which increase the value of all subsequent tent modes) and gives Tent Win end-of-ball bonus, which is multiplied by regular bonus X AND multiplied by the number of tents won in that ball. Several million just in bonus is quite possible if you're rocking the tent modes. Don't tilt. (Oh, you're on your final tilt warning? Might be a good time to collect the "more tilt warnings" stein...)
Thanks. That helps to know what the ducks do and that sounds like a great idea. I think my problem was that I wasn't quite playing the modes well enough to beat them my first time. I think I played the Looper mode (left ramp) like 4-5 times and everytime I'd get it down to one shot left and the mode would time out.-and it didn't seem like I as getting many points for each subsequent shot. I do like that you made the modes non-repeatable if you beat them.-I didn't know this was the case.
There are about 6 tent modes that are particularly good candidates to carry into a multiball. Füd Frenzy seems obvious, and it's certainly a good option... but then again, my wife scored 2.5M in Ring Toss alone by carrying it into a multiball. Personally, I like Duck Hunt. Again, this is significantly impacted by what steins you've chosen.
I'll have to give Duck Hunt and Ring Toss a try next time I play to see how well they stack with multiball. I'm only beginning to figure out the strategy in this game.
I'm still obsessively tweaking overall scoring balance, so some things will change over time, but I'm reasonably happy with the scoring balance even now. None of the tent modes is guaranteed monster points... but all of them have the potential for big points. And yes, if you successfully stack the right steins + appropriate tent mode + Food Stand + multiball + playfield X, your score will probably blow up. Congrats on successfully executing a good strategy.
Enjoy!
I only did the Oktober sweep once in my 9 games, but it was extremely cool and satisfying to see it happen! I do really like the narrower targets and it's fun being able to pick off numerous standups on a single shot.-even when you don't sweep them all.
Thanks for the explanation. Now that you describe more of the details it makes it more apparent that there is more to do within the modes. I can see how there can be 5-6 different modes that can be lucrative to carry into a multiball. I suppose any of the target modes or Bumper Cars would be good for this. I was having good success with Fud Frenzy but there may possibly be even more lucrative modes to stack. I think where I wasn't finding them interesting was just playing them on their own without and kind of booster or multiball involved. Something like Bumper Cars just didn't seem worth it to play on it's own. I wasn't getting a ton of pop action on the game and often the right orbit is stopped by the magnet. Same goes for the Spinner mode. I do like the rules on that one and how the other orbit can accelerate the spinner value, but it just seemed like the spinner wasn't juicy enough to score a lot of points.-and the magnet on right orbit would often impede its progress. If someone could mod the spinner to rotate better I think it would be a fun mode. I only played the Stein Race mode once and had a pretty quick drain because my brain didn't pickup how to play that way quick enough. Maybe it would be better if it gave you an option to play it with standard flipper buttons but for 1/2 points? I'm not a huge fan of video modes in general and while I don't think the mode is bad I didn't particularly enjoy it. It was also hard to tell how full the beer mugs were on the display. -maybe this could be zoomed in the mugs a bit more?
That helps to know what the ducks do and that sounds like a great idea. I think my problem was that I wasn't quite playing the modes well enough to beat them my first time. I think I played the Looper mode (left ramp) like 4-5 times and everytime I'd get it down to one shot left and the mode would time out.-and it didn't seem like I as getting many points for each subsequent shot. I do like that you made the modes non-repeatable if you beat them.-I didn't know this was the case.
I'll have to give Duck Hunt and Ring Toss a try next time I play to see how well they stack with multiball. I'm only beginning to figure out the strategy in this game.
It became apparent within a few games of playing that this is a game you won't score well with if you don't have a strategy and understand what you are doing with Steins and the Food stand (I'm still not completely sure how the Food stand factors in). One of my first games was a 22 minute game and I ground that out for less than 900K points, because I didn't have a strategy and was just trying out modes and seeing how the game played. My next game I implemented some strategy and stacked Fud Frenzy with a multiball and scored a million plus points on just one multiball alone. I can see how this game would have a lot of value just because there is a lot of strategy involved.
Is there a rule-sheet or guide on the game that I can read up on? Now that I've played it I think everything would make more sense. I'm excited to give it another go and see how I do!
Quoted from Chitownpinball:Funny thing about stein race is that I was actively seeking it out for the first couple games, but I never lost a ball because of it. I found using both flippers at the same time helped a lot with that, but it also made the right orbit hard as hell to hit since that top flipper would be up. Much different than straight jacket, which is nice. I like that they have embraced weird flipping modes.
My strategy was to collect as many of the spinner steins as possible to see if I could rip a ton of points off the spinner. That was not the case. I felt like the ball was getting stopped by the magnet more often than I was ripping the spinner. Id go to shoot it and the magnet would grab the ball. Pretty sure I wasnt activating the mag grab....unless its automatic there...which it seemed it was.
I'll have to give the Stein Race mode another try. I only tried it once and I think my brain just decided not to work in processing how to operate the buttons and I drained quickly 
I ran into the same thing on the spinner mode. The auto mag-nab would impede the spinner and even if you do get a clean spinner shot it didn't seem that juicy. A juicier spinner and disabling that mag nab during that mode would make that mode a lot of fun to play!
Quoted from rosh:The scoring in modes is fairly balanced, but we will be making a few tweaks. Obviously something like Fud Frenzy stacked with a multiball can be very lucrative, but that is true of most tents modes if they are stacked. Keep in mind that if you 'win' a mode, you can't play it again. If you don't win a mode you can, but it will pick up where you left off, but that also implies you did not score a ton of points in the mode the first time. To score big points you need to get to the win. So, not really as easy to exploit as you may think, unless you intentionally stop just short of victory on modes, just so you can play it again. But there are ways to maximize scoring in one visit, such as extending time in all tent modes via the appropriate stein (and potentially getting that stein more than once), having the stein that boosts that tent, completing TENT lanes while in the mode to add time, having lots of ducks, and of course, increasing the playfield multiplier via the tap lanes (and extending that time via the appropriate stein). Winning a tent on the first visit will ultimately lead to higher scores, in addition, you need to visit (not win) every tent to get to Flipper Meister.
Funny how some folks are interested in being able to play one handed the whole game and some don't want to play it at all.
thanks for the explanation. I really need to focus more on strategy and actually completing modes. The game could be more balanced than what I originally gave it credit for. Will need to play more and really dive into the strategy!
I'll need to practice up on the one handed mode. I just know that when you're paying $1 a game on location you tend to shy away from the modes where you can drain quickly. In a home environment this would be more fun to practice and try to master. It kind of felt like a kick in the nuts the single time that I did play it...
Quoted from Platypus:I copied whatever info I could scab off of this thread most is from Rosh. Edited and pasted below: looks like formatting was lost
I did this for Houdini too.
OKTOBERFEST-The 14 tent modes are each very different a far as what shots are needed (mode shots have inserts lit as Blue). It was a goal to be sure we leveraged all the different parts of the playfield in the modes. There is quite a variety . . .
Ring Toss is about hitting the targets on the Oktober and fest target banks, alternating one side from the other. Hitting X-in-a-row lit targets gives progressively higher scores. If you're skilled (or lucky) enough to sweep the entire lit OKTOBER bank in one shot (7-in-a-row), the points will be raining down. Completing either the OKTOBER or FEST bank gives a bonus, and completing both banks gives mongo bonus.
Stein Race, which is one handed play, starts with several shots lit, but if you shoot a shot already made (shows red), then you spill beer and the point value reduces.
Chugging -- a sequence of shots, first a two shots sequence to beat Inga, then a three shot sequence to beat Otto. And then a more difficult sequence in the re-match.
Looper, is about shooting the left ramp that feeds the coaster Preferably in sequential combos, which become more and more valuable. It's very satisfying (and valuable) to hit a 5 or 6 or 7 way combo on the Roller Coaster ramp.
Juggler is an add-a-ball, starts with two balls, then a sequence of shots to complete that adds another and then another series to add one more
Target Shooting is shooting a shifting set of lights on the PROST target bank in the middle of the playfield.
Duck Hunting hitting the four ducks targets around the playfield, can't hit the same one twice in a row
Rockin Express -- spinner scores, shoot lit orbit to increase value
Rotor -- shots lit one at time, moving left to right and then back again
Füd Frenzy -- Yes, it's a switch frenzy... but you increase the frenzy value for every *distinct* switch you hit on the playfield. Think you'll just rip the spinner like in many frenzies? That's OK, but you'd be much better off shooting a bunch of OKTOBER, FEST, or PROST targets, *then* rip the spinner. And as long as you're at it, if you shoot the spinner via the right orbit shot, try using the top lanes MagNab to catch the ball up there, and further increase the frenzy value on that TAP lane and then the pop bumpers.
Bumper Cars -- shoot pops and slings
Sky slide -- knock down drop target, shoot the vuk before it times out and target comes back up
Tap-it -- Video mode
All modes have a goal to meet to get the 'win' (tent on playfield will then show up as Green), if you don't win, you can play the mode again (shows as yellow) and it will resume where you left off. A 'beer colored' tent on the playfield means you have the stein that boosts it, but have not yet played it. The Tent you are currently in shows Blue. Play all 13 to get to the 14 tent, Flipper Meister (available soon)
And of course, each tent's scoring is multiplied if you have the stein associated with that tent.... and you can stack several of those steins if you really want to try blowing out the scoring for a tent.
But I'll share one more, you want be to sure to being using lane change for TENT letters while in a mode, you will figure out why when you play.
Also... DUCKS!
Many thanks! This is great.
Quoted from iceman44:I like it for many reasons and bought it. Hope to get it next week.
Love the layout and the fun factor.
I get the criticism of the perfectionists but that doesn't matter to me.
You'll love it! the theme is fun and the gameplay is great. Honestly the display graphics doesn't really matter that much. A lot of my favorite pins do not have any graphics at all. It's what's under the playfield glass that matters, and that's a fun and unique!
2 weeks later
Quoted from Whysnow:was anyone able to make the upper ramp shot on any of the MGC games?
I tried multiple times and have also been over to play the one on location in Madison 2x now. That upper flipper to ramp shot does not appear to have enough power. Is something going on with this? Still purposefully turned down since early games with 3d printed parts?
I really enjoy the layout and shooting of this game (its best feature), but not much fun with the current feel of the flippers.
I didn't play the games at MGC but I have no problems making that side ramp on the Blue Moon's game. I can make it about 80% when using a Mag nab and about 20% when on the fly. The thing you have to remember is that the shot is really late on the flipper and not where the sweet spot would typically be. It definitely takes a while to find the shot but once you do it becomes rather make able.
Quoted from Whysnow:that may be the case. When I played both at MGC and on route, the game had been played by others prior to me being there.
I found the sweet spot (just like baywatch but other side of game ) just steep ramp and not enough 'umph' when hitting it perfect.
My personal preference would be to make all of the flippers just a smidge stronger. All shots are makeable as is but as the game gets played more and gets dirtier they will get tougher to make. The side ramp reminds me a bit of Whirlwind in it's makeability. The game also needs a slightly stronger shooter spring as the current one is often too weak to collect a Stein off the skillshot
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