Boobs and booze.
That's not getting past a lot of wives. Good luck getting this in your basement married dudes.
Boobs and booze.
That's not getting past a lot of wives. Good luck getting this in your basement married dudes.
Only in the pinball industry would it be deemed acceptable for a game called Oktoberfest to actually come out in January.
The negative stigmata about booze in America is 100% about drinking and driving:
Note how we're 3x worse than Germany. (probably because our country is 10x bigger meaning less public transport and a lot of rural folks getting DUI's)
I think it would be interesting to see a map of the decline of DUI in cities with Uber versus the rural areas.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:
Walt hasn't been dead 70 years yet. He also doesn't count. Trust and corporate.
Yet another reason Bog Iger might run for president in 2020!
It's a good thing Germany has national health care because this woman needs major surgery PRONTO!
They need to fix the staggeringly awful female character before Expo if possible.
It's beyond bad, no amount of "bad photo" or "grain" caused that to happen.
Menards gave me an Octoberfest discount on masonry bits.
I am now therefore completely in favor of this theme!
A hand drawn art package is easily obtained for 10k. There is no excuse for a company with this much money behind it to release an art package this bad.
The LCD is even worse. Looks like a shareware AOL game from 1996. Who looked at this and said "This is fine".... Clearly no one. And for the love of God put some strokes or drop shadows on text! Your average graffiti artist knows better than this!
Portland is a great show and I can at least read about Pinball Expo online while I'm here
I don't mind the comparison to AMH. But remember we improved upon that with Rob Zombie and ACNC. We didn't go sideways or backwards.
Quoted from Rarehero:
Why wouldn’t they be for a $7000 game? This isn’t a 99 cent phone app.
You're right it isn't... 99 cent apps look better.
AP is clearly sinking a lot of recurring costs into this game with all the mechs and habitrails. Why not spend just a bit more one time for better art?
At the VERY LEAST they should remove the characters from the side art. As easy as clicking "hide" on 2 Photoshop layers. The side art is the best looking part of the game.
Rolling Stone magazine can cover their logo because people know it. Nobody knows what this is.
How about "Get The Heck Out" for a slogan? Should I order hats?
My issue is jealousy. I'm jealous that AP gets away with Photoshop collage art when everyone else has to do much better and at greater expense. (something myself and Aurich have lived through)
It's also disconcerting to realize Pinheads consider detail (for the sake of detail) to be more important than visual clarity.
I finally played Thunderbirds. Would agree with most of the above.
Some positives. The display is very bright and they have speakers with tweeters so the audio is pretty sharp as well.
This is a pin that should have used Photoshop collage art. Hand drawing the character hides the fact they were live action puppets so you lose the charm.
I know Aurich doesn't agree with me on this, but I believe deep down all customers really want are movie licenses (with good hand drawn art)
Could we possibly see an "Original Theme Crash" in 2019 when we get flooded with them?
Quoted from BarryJ:
The art displayed on the proto games are not the final art work... The art on OKF will evolve before the final production version. The alternative art package will be more of an adult theme and therefore an option to the standard art package. This option is still in a infancy mode and may never come to fruition.
You can make the cab sides look A-OK just remove those two characters. Oh and the wheel thing in the sky on the backbox sides? Make sure it isn't touching the edge of the frame.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
This is what happened at Spooky on AMH. Existing package was limiting sales and Spooky redid cabinet and backglass art and offered it as an option.
Yup. I lived this 4 years back. That's why I've been so vocal about this game's art.
Pins are all about art now. It'll sell a theme nobody wanted (like Metallica) and it will sink a sure bet (like Beatles)
If yoy haven't noticed this trend you haven't been paying attention.
AP is open to improving the art. I'm offering suggestions on how to do this as simply as possible (like removing the side characters)
If I really wanted to f**k AP I'd say "THIS IS FINE, GO FOR IT"
It would be really cool if small LCD's could be used in place of insert lights.
Could update the player not just what shot to hit (because it's flashing) but what it does.
Almost like an old EM with the scores printed right on the board
One issue you'd have with small LCDs as target inserts is the shallow viewing angle. Anything cheap probably wouldn't look very good.
I never found myself looking at the PF LCD in Alien or Full Throttle. Strange.
I think AP should run a contest. Any dude who thinks the twisted waist woman looks OK, snap a photo of their wife attempting that same pose and it it matches you get a free game!
Quoted from pinballinreno:
I so much miss the poor handicapped girl on the backglass.
I thought it was very PC for API to use her.
People with horrible back problems need love too.
She's not alone! People were too distracted by the monkey to realize one of the girls he was grabbing was MISSING A LEG.
Maybe he was a support animal - literally supporting her by holding onto her ass?
Music sounds fine to me. Needs variety because non stop polka would drive people to MAD-NESS!
Yeah this is the first time I've been able to hear the music on this game. It's great! A really cool mix between polka and hard rock.
LCD animations still suck Who puts purple text over a blue background?
Here is how the game industry fans react to bad fonts in $60 products:
Ah the game industry... pinball companies wouldn't last 3 nanoseconds with those fans.
Quoted from BertoDRINK1:
Yeah but they have development cost of usually over 50 million dollars for those top games and they sell over a million copies. Not really the same thing VS the small teams developing these pins.
There's plenty of Stern LCD games that slap light colored text on light backgrounds as well.
A design should work in black and white, then think about color. If you squint your eyes and can't tell what's going on that's a fail!
Those shingles were there before you were just distracted by Greta The Human Pretzel.
Quoted from pinballinreno:
How dare you shame a poor, pretzel shaped, one legged woman!
I think you're confused! The one legged woman was the one being assault by the monkey. Again my theory was the monkey was simply helping her balance. It's a shame #metoo has now destroyed the career of service animals.
Will there be an OKF at MGC?
Would be interesting to see how the game itself is aside from the arguments about music and art.
Quoted from vireland:
AP desperately needs an artist/animator with experience in art direction, preferably in video games. There's no way around it. The only question is, how long will they put it off, causing titles to sell less than their potential before they realize it's costing them more than they're saving.
Especially true considering that trademark filing which suggests they're continuing with non-licensed themes.
The two color men walking around reminds me of this:
Seriously AP. Why do you spend millions making games and near zilch on one-time costs like art?
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:
I was guessing those were place holders. The animations are even playing on the same cycle so they all march like a battalion of soldiers. I figured all that stuff was yet to be tweaked.
Also note how the walk animation is faster than the characters move, making it look like they're sliding on ice. Seriously this sort of thing was solved back in the NES days.
AP either needs to spend on licenses so they have content to fill the LCD with or spend on art to make these original themes come to life.
I am trying to give AP good advice. If they insist on sticking with original themes they need to improve their A/V content by several orders of magnitude.
Else they're toast.
Colored dots look good because they originate in black & white. The artist had to take contrast and readability into account when designing them. The color is just icing on a cake. If a design doesn't work in B&W then it doesn't work.
I'd agree that the LCD is the least important part of a game but if you're gonna put one in do it right.
It's also absurd to say "anything" on an LCD is better than when we had dots. Rubbish. Any well done dot game has far more artistry in it than OKF.
Quoted from iceman44:
Now granted I haven’t played it but the LCD was displayed prominently in that stream
Anybody that says going back to dots would be better than what AP currently has on Ocktoberfest is out of their F ing minds!
I don’t care how “elementary” you think AP audio/visual is, it’s still 100 clicks above “dots”
Open your eyes
Not saying they should go back to dots. Just saying that most dot games were done better than OKF's display.
Just because it's color and hi res that doesn't make it good.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:
Guess I'll spell it out...I'd like to see front of the girls....umm there chests! Trying to be tactful.
The fact that almost every woman in the artwork had their butts to camera was too consistent to not be deliberate.
My guess is butts are more "politically correct" (or more importantly wife-friendly) than boobs.
Hilton and I sought out this game last night.
Layout is pretty fun, does feel a bit like Alien meets WOZ. The rollercoaster ball lock and release is awesome, the magnet that holds ball for upper right flipper is cool (should have an option for English voice countdown though). Playfield art looks fine in person. It feels properly packed like a JJP game or older Stern/BW.
LCD still awful. It's ugly, the text is small and the art style is a complete mishmash. Photorealistic people, then hand drawn people, then a badly animated CGI guy eating a sausage. Side view of rollercoaster cars with their fronts visible?
It's disappointing to see so much effort go into a playfield but so very little into animation and art.
Also in a 3 player game it skipped player three during one of the balls. Not sure if that was lock related.
One handed stein race could use an audio cue telling you to use the dual buttons. Maybe hold the mode until player has tapped second button so they realize what it does? Mode was cool!
Have both the right-side buttons activate both flippers at all times (so you could always play one handed if you wish) Add some art/text calling this a feature "Drink while you play!" Maybe the first time player hits the lower button have a callout "Hey, I could use my other hand to drink!" to really reinforce the idea before Stein mode. But just once per game so it doesn't become "SHOOT THE PYRAMID!"
In addition to voice callouts saying "hit both of the right hand buttons!" show a photo of it onscreen (like JJP does with the Start button) and a flashing arrow EXTRA FLIPPER BUTTON. Remember many people can't even find the Start button let alone this.
Add "negative reinforcement" if player presses left button during mode. "No, only use the buttons on the right!" That way they don't think the button/flipper is broken (as I first did)
In "Tapper" video mode, use the right hand buttons for the movement and the left for pour action.
Guessing AP already has a lot of sunk cost into this LCD and don't want to redo it.
At the very least, for next time, get somebody at AP who can set a style or tell you something sucks early on?
1) CONTRAST! Different colors don't mean shit. If your display wouldn't be readable in B&W then it sucks. A slim black stroke around a font the same brightness as background doesn't cut it (most manufacturers do this even Stern) Yellow duck icons against yellow beer = dumb.
2) THIS ISN'T AN EYE EXAM! Why do manufacturers fill the LCD with tiny fonts? (Again, everybody is guilty of this) Keep the text big and bold. LCD is roughly twice the height of DMD, so have twice the info at most... instead of an IRS form.
3) IS THIS A ZOMBIE GAME?. No? Then why are the women so ugly on LCD? Is this an attempt to make it "wife safe"? All you need to do for that is keep the boobs C and under. The photo-real women on PF aren't ugly - why are they on the LCD? (I know why - because clipart - but that's a reason not an excuse)
4) SKEUOMORPHISM IS SO 2007. Houdini and OKT are both ripe with this. It's the art style where UI elements look like real-world things - think iPhone's calendar or notebook circa 2007. CIRCA 2007. It's a completely dead style now outside of music software.
5) TODD TUCKEY'S WRIST IS STILL BROKEN. Does anyone in the pinball art world know how arms work?
There's no depth to any of this art, that's why it looks flat.
Here's a simple mockup. The beer is closer to the camera, which makes it look more inviting. Like "Here, have a beer!" not "I'm holding this beer against my nipple!"
Give it a slight tilt. Shade around the beer to show it's clearly in front of the subject. I also adjusted the arm so it looks more like the forearm is pointing forward (like the photo of the woman above) which then makes the angle of the fist make sense.
It's 2019. A $7500 luxury item needs art that exceeds the quality standard of the Middle Ages when they didn't understand human anatomy or perspective.
Just because you don't notice something is wrong doesn't mean there isn't something wrong. A carpenter, a doctor, a dentist, a mechanic can all look at things and see issues others can't. You wouldn't ask Aurich to fix your teeth but he could tell you if Luci's hips were drawn wrong.
Broken wrists and pretzel women are a result of making a game entirely out of clip art and not in an effective Chris Franchi way. Pretzel woman was made from at least 3 different women and they used an ass shot to form the front of her skirt. They fixed it, but the fact it was there in the first place speaks to the lack of cohesion.
There's a reason animators on G rated movies sketch nudes or what DaVinci dug up corpses and Python Angelo chopped up animals - to understand anatomy and apply it correctly to art.
As Kaneda says the theme is a tough sell so EVERY other aspect has to be top notch. It's frustrating to see a company put so much work into the physical game yet cover it with a frosting of puke.
Lastly, David van Es and I designed the ACNC display. Thus I know how much work it takes to do this right which means I can also tell when something has been done very lazily.
AMH is ancient history. More recently I along with David van Es designed the beloved ACNC display including storyboards, text layouts, keep safe zones and even a custom font with manually kerned letter pairs to make it "programmer proof"
Rip on AMH's art all you want. In the end I created the first boutique pin that didn't steal people's money.
Wesman you're entirely correct in saying this is about ego. Everybody wants to feel that their opinion is correct and they'll go online in search of validation. It's like the old saying "Nobody goes on the internet to be proven wrong"
I'd ask you to consider Aurich and I's viewpoints. We both poured heart and soul into pinball projects. Aurich spent a lot of time on a game that wasn't fully produced while I help start Spooky Pinball only to be "de-prioritized" when ACNC was delayed and TNA became a huge hit.
We know how hard it is to make games and the choices that go into that. We see something like OKT and it's not just the bad art decisions that bother us, it's knowing that a lot of resources were available but not utilized correctly. We WISH we had the opportunity to do that with our games but we didn't - so when we see that potential squandered it makes us all the more frustrated.
Storytime. 2013 we take AMH to Pinball Expo. Almost everyone hates our Photoshop artwork (the green version) Pretty much the only person who doesn't hate it is Roger Sharpe. "It makes sense" he says "like a painting around a frame". Great! Everyone else says "You have to change this it sucks". I remember the younger guy from Cointaker taking me aside dead serious like it's an intervention "Ben, you have to change this". Who do I listen to? Roger Sharpe, or everyone else?
Steve Richie has a saying. "If 2 people tell you something sucks, then it sucks".
In the following weeks I commission the backglass to be redrawn by hand and I redesign the cabinet with the swirling ghost design. Hate it or love it Spooky is still around today.
AP is a lot younger than Spooky. Just saying they should learn from our mistakes not repeat them.
The grainy crowd footage is either:
a) they didn't license the clip and tried to make it unrecognizable.
b) they wanted to obscure faces they don't have likeness releases for
c) they actually think unsharp mask and posterization would make live action footage blend in with the clip art.
Mode transition idea: Assuming a first person perspective, a beer stein tilts up into view, fills the screen as you chug, stien tilts back down to review the next mode.
Root issue with a theme like this: Anyone can go buy beer or attend a festival. Playing a pin is not as much fun as going to a festival.
Almost none of us can visit a magical chocolate factory, quest to beat the Black Knight or explore a nightmare castle. Likewise, flipping a pin is much safer than those activities.
If a theme is set in the real world then it needs to be a power fantasy. You're a famous rock band, or you're saving a city from disasters either as a super hero or with your cell phone and mom jeans.
Quoted from Aniraf:
Does anyone recognize this chip? I found it in the cabinet during the cleaning I did right after my tournament. I cannot imagine that it fell off of anything as it looks like the legs were cleanly clipped, but I don't know. Sorry the photo is a bit blurry, the chip is super small.[quoted image]
It's a tantalum capacitor. It was probably being used as a voltage rail power filter which is why losing it wouldn't noticeably affect anything.
You should solder it back on. Note the line on one side - this indicates the positive end and it must be re-installed correctly just like an electrolytic cap.
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