Quoted from PinMonk:decades of real-world hole protection experience
This made me lol.
(Topic ID: 224963)
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Oktoberfest
American Pinball, 2018
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Quoted from PinMonk:Well, now that you point out the potential alternate reading...I'm not sure he has universal hole protection experience, but he definitely can tell you a thing or two about playfield hole design.
I don’t doubt that. I just happened to read that as something I would appreciate being printed on my business card.
1 week later
Quoted from flynnibus:hitting the wrong letter should provide some feedback
I have to say, ever since playing #tna I am obsessed with he missed shot feedback. The way that it is handled in that game is awesome.
1 week later
Quoted from BertoDRINK1:I'd would like to think i just helped AP make a sale for an Oktoberfest. A local Arcade bar owner reached out to me about finding something kind of beer related for a event and for his place and I directed him towards Oktoberfest. I know he reached out to our local distributor here in GA and also sent a message to AP because he would like to have it by April 24th for the event on the 26th. Will April 24th ish be a problem for delivery?
This is why I pre-ordered a few months back. I seems like the perfect theme for a bar I put my machines in. I feel like the machines need to match the vibe of the place. For example, I love the Metallica machine, but wouldn’t put that into a casual beer drinking joint.
Quoted from Roostking:Where do yo route games, and where will Oktoberfest be located?
I've been putting my games at Hop Central Brewery and Taproom in Chandler Arizona (https://hopcentralbrewery.com/). I have it listed as a location on Pinside too. 
Quoted from benheck:The two color men walking around reminds me of this:
Seriously AP. Why do you spend millions making games and near zilch on one-time costs like art?
OMG! That is perfect...lol.
Quoted from SDTMinSTL:I would like to give my .02 on my experience with Oktoberfest, and it may be worth less than that, but here goes...
I am fortunate in that I am able to travel to most shows. I went to Expo, and I went to Louisville last weekend. Oktoberfest has some great shots that are original and satisfying to hit. The toys are fun including the tapper, the target banks, the shape of shots, the habit trails and even Otto. I played it more than any other machine at the show. Despite the lazy narratives about the animations being sub par, I found them relevant, entertaining, and reasonably well done. The code, especially for being this early in the game, was pretty solid. As mentioned, there were some issues with the one that shipped but after Zach updated it, it was relatively trouble free. There is a lot to explore within the modes and it seemed it would hold up well to a home use scenario. I am a dad, with a 10 year old son in the house who I am very protective of. Yes, it features beer. So does prime time TV and sports. I find the theme perfectly acceptable. Beer and beautiful women are part of life in my opinion. I respect a teetotaler or puritan type that refuses such things in their home as long as it is not in lieu of a Walking Dead, Elvira or Big Bang Bar. Pinball is full of violence, suggestive themes and innuendo much less subtle than what this machine has.
Criticisms: I can't say that I would have picked the theme if I were the one in charge of such things, but after spending some time with it, and seeing how it has been implemented, I am warming up to it. I love humor in pinball, and this has it in spades. I am not crazy about the mech that is below Otto being a rehash, but otherwise, the machine seems to have plenty of features for the money, especially compared to what the market leading elephant in the room tends to offer (not hating, I own some of theirs, and I like them, but... it needs to be said).
I have absolutely no dog in this fight. I have not purchased a Houdini. I do not know anyone at American beyond here on the forum. I purchase machines based on their value and merits vs preconceived bias or notions towards what I should like, or what the mainstream does. It tends to serve me pretty well. I am considering a purchase of Oktoberfest for my home. I enjoyed it that much. I will talk about this in detail on our podcast we are recording this evening that should be posted on 3-6-19 of you would care to hear more.
-Jason
This game has wild amounts of emotion and opinions around it. Everything from women’s rights to alcohol consumption. I, for one, am extremely happy I preordered such a classic representation of our current society nicely bundled into one pinball machine. 
.
That said, I think this review you wrote sounds pretty fair. Assuming AP doesn’t have unlimited dollars…I say they should absolutely concentrate on the mechanical before the digital. If they keep evolving the software on top of a fantastic mechanical platform, they should have a long running success.
Quoted from HOOKED:Question I'd like to ask ....how many of those on this thread are currently buying this machine?
Discussion is great but who is putting money down?
I preordered with Joe @ PinballSTAR the moment he announced it.
The arguing about this game is so f’ing epic that I has become my favorite thing on Pinside next to the HEP posts. I cannot wait for the OKF owners club post to get shut down. I mean, at this point I’m hinting an R Kelly theme would have been a safer choice.
Quoted from jaytrem:Still no bumper car drivers. Bummer, I really liked them? Can anybody share the story on what happened to them? Thanks.
I liked those as well. I don't know why, but I thought they were pretty cool. I'd buy them after market assuming there is a way to attach them easily.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Love to see Alternate plastics slings with these girls facing the camera!!!
[quoted image]
What's wrong with those ones?
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:There Great! I love Black Hair and Redheads!
No, still needs to be Family Friendly.
Guess I'll spell it out...I'd like to see front of the girls....umm there Chests! Trying to be tactful.
Oh, I didn't realize they had adult versions!
Quoted from PinMonk:You really, REALLY need a Premium level machine option. Factory-installed art blades, invisiglass, shaker motor, EOS switches, knocker, cliffy protection (shooter lane and holes - you'd be the first, JJP just did holes), bumper car characters, matching face on playfield dude (okay, maybe not the last one, but you'd have at least one buyer down under with that) would be a hit with a good portion of the users.
You're leaving a fair amount of money on the table by not offering it. I understand and appreciate holding the line on pricing, but offering a Standard and a Premium will only fatten your bottom line and most of the parts you already have in-house sitting there, not making the money they could. Plus, there's still the Standard version that's always been there for people that only want that.
It is probably pretty hard to start spinning out different versions at their scale. If you're producing thousands of machines, it could be justified...with hundreds, it is probably best to stick to one single variation.
Quoted from whitey:Have a game coming paid in full with JJ
(Colorado) happy to buy bumper car as a mod !
On another note I have a Houdini and love the game. Just unboxed a Stern LE
Munsters and that’s my last Stern ! Ok fun game but quality is garbage ! Stern
Should be looking in the rear view mirror
AP keep them coming !
You got a number already? I pre-ordered, but I don’t think my distributor has them yet. I asked the other day and he said he was waiting :/.
1 week later
Quoted from rosh:We are testing out a change to the right 180 ramp designed to reduce rejects and so far pretty pleased with it. Would be retrofitted to the games already built. Possible this change will be on the machines at TPF.
Today I'll be working on putting in more voice calls and testing out a change Ferret checked in at 3AM for the Beer Barrel and Coaster locks where there is now an adjustment to leave balls locked between games. For beer barrel where you can steal locks, this will increase frequency of Beer Barrel Multiball, for Coaster, although you can't steal locks, leaving them in the lock will reduce the time you need to wait between games. There are some downsides to leaving the coaster locks as it will reduce skill shot opportunities (and you don't get see the balls rolling down the coaster at end of game).
Also added support for "non family friendly" voice calls and started to drop a couple of them in (primarily for testing) as well some modifications to Steins moving one to 'non family friendly' mode.
Now that last item should give you something to argue about.
Sounds awesome! Thanks for the update.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Ferret:The Oktoberfest game team is here listening. Josh and I are regularly engaged in this thread, we're not running away. As I've said before, people shouldn't expect the entire animation package to be scrapped and redone. That's not realistic. But if there are reasonable things we can do to improve the presentation, tell us exactly what those are, and we'll see what we can do.
Several critics here have mentioned fonts. There is one font that is primarily used throughout the game, a Germanic typeface. Do you find that hard to read? If we hear a lot of that, we might be able to select another font that preserves the general style but is easier to read. Or do you have a problem with the color contrast of the text against certain backgrounds? That's something we can work with. Back around Expo, someone here posted a screenshot of a tent total screen, and said that they had a hard time reading it because of the contrast of the text against the background. That was very specific and constructive feedback, we agreed, and an improvement was checked into the code base minutes later. No problem. So go ahead, if you have access to the game, send a photo and tell us exactly what you'd like to see changed. Heck, if you don't have access to a game, watch one of the streams and send a link and a timecode with your explanation. Even feedback that can't be incorporated into Oktoberfest can help advise the team for future games.
Even something like "the dachshund walks like an anxious goat!"... well, OK, that just made me laugh, and frankly I personally have no idea what that means, but then I'm neither an animator nor an anatomist. But at least it's something specific, and thus more helpful than "the LCD sucks, booooo!"
Thanks!
Is there any way to share a video of all of the screens and animations to date? I haven’t received my game yet, nor have I seen it in person, but I would be more than happy to throw a few hours into graphic design suggestions. None of this needs to be public if you prefer feedback outside of this forum.
I am actually buying into the idea that people with some skills in design would throw you free moc-ups or animations. Chances are people in these forums are fairly skilled in their various careers since pinball is an expensive hobby.
Just a thought…
Quoted from rosh:There is a new version of the 180 ramp, not yet installed on that machine, which makes a huge difference. In fact, so much better that Ferret and I were discussing yesterday changes to the super skill shot. Will get that one changed out soon.
Jus to add to what Ferret said, regarding the food stand modes, shoot the spinner and drop target will add calories and open the food stand.
Shooting the stand (yuk) during a food mode will restart the clock. In addition to increasing jackpot values, consuming an abundance of food/calories can result a "calorie coma" (coming soon), in which your current ball will 'pause' until you work off the calories via shots to the spinner. However, since your are drowsy from having consumed too many calories, your "strength" may not be what it normally is, until you worked off at least some of the calories.
When the main screen is displayed, the food stand on the right side will show you your current calories and status of the food stand, if you are in a food stand mode, it will show the time remaining. We will likely add a version of that clock that is always on screen when a food stand mode is running.
I love the creative stuff like this! You are helping to usher in an entirely new gaming experience that combines pinball with video games. Super cool.
Quoted from benheck:Root issue with a theme like this: Anyone can go buy beer or attend a festival. Playing a pin is not as much fun as going to a festival.
Almost none of us can visit a magical chocolate factory, quest to beat the Black Knight or explore a nightmare castle. Likewise, flipping a pin is much safer than those activities.
If a theme is set in the real world then it needs to be a power fantasy. You're a famous rock band, or you're saving a city from disasters either as a super hero or with your cell phone and mom jeans.
Have you played Scorpion! Nothing beats the epic quest of a laser boat fighting a hydra…and it is called Scorpion!
Quoted from drfrightner:Octoberfest: review
This is the most honest review of the game you'll ever get. American Pinball is not going to stay in business if they keep making this odd ball themes because in a pincade, 90% of the players like Ghostbusters, a game here most people hate. People are drawn into the theme, not the features most of the time. A good exception is Dialed In, that game makes money, because from the naked eye its looks like a normal pinball game, but it looks like so much more fun!!!
Octoberfest is the most confusing theme I've ever seen... at first glance it looks like a BEER theme, but no wait its a carnival, its a party, no wait its I have no clue. Who would drink beer and ride a roller coaster? If you're trying to make a BEER themed pinball game, then make it an all out assault on BEER, make the topper something that holds a keg, with lines inside the machine so you can POUR a drink while playing. Make it a game every single bar and man cave would want, and market the game that way.
This is a game I'm thinking might sell 100 to 150 copies because of the theme itself. Now I'm hearing they will consider Robin Hood, NO WAY no ONE wants to play Robin Hood. American Pinball has shown the ability to produce a really beautiful game, they need to re-focus here on CHEAPER licenses like Halloween, Friday the 13th, Bill and Ted, something along those lines, a cheaper license so when they announce 750 copies not a copy more BOOM they sell out in 10 minutes.
How do you market Octoberfest, not to mention you're playing the game in April. Bad name, bad theme, and I think an overall financial disaster. The playfield is a cluttered mess while the game and all the mechs are fun, unique and different.
Now the good... they learned from Houdini, they made a game that is a lot of fun here. If they could step up the CGI graphics, license something interesting, these guys could be real players. These guys have the potential for a breakout but they need some better advice. Whomever is giving these guys advice isn't thinking for the hear and now or the long term.
I don't want to pay 7400 bucks for a confusing theme, a game that won't be collectable long term, just because the game is FUN, INTERESTING, DIFFERENT, because long term all games get boring. People buy and sell these games long term based on the theme.
The game is fun, its different, love what they did with the rails, just overall I think its the second best new game created this year... behind Wonka.
So yeah I think honestly its one of the most original and fun games probably released in several years, but the theme is terrible. Buy today for 7400 and 1 year from now sell for 5800.
I was tempted to buy one, because the game really is that much fun to play, but like all pinballs after a while you get bored of it... then you fall back on the THEME to find a buyer.
American Pinball could be the next BIG PLAYER but they will need to start looking at themes they could produce 500 to 1000 copies not games that might sell 200 copies. I think Octoberfest is a wasted game because at the box office its not going to produce a profit.
With all that being said Octoberfest won't ever sell itself, they will need to show the game to sell any, and most games usually just sell themselves.
American Pinball created one of the most fun games, I've ever seen, but the theme is going to kill them long term. Just my opinion.
I would say at this point American Pinball need to turn the corner, license something that appeals to 500 to 1000 buyers, take what they've learned from these first two games, and go after this industry. Because despite everything I said I think these guys have the most potential for a breakout.
One thing all companies need to understand is you must learn from your competition, and how many original themes have survived? How many times has Stern done an original theme? Jersey Jack a new company has made 5 games, with two more coming... 1 original theme 6 licensed.
Stern like everything is licensed but the new Black Knight.
Alien a company that failed, but people are paying 10k to get that game, not because the game because honestly the game is average its the theme.
American Pinball has the potential for a massive breakout but man they have to license something.
I would never dare to shit on an opinion but I will critique your writing.
As someone who has yet to see the game, I appreciate the time you invested in writing this review. However, I would recommend that you work on sentence structure and topic orientation. I found this extremely hard to follow.
1 week later
I got my email to ask if I wanted the topper today. $100 for a piece of plastic doesn’t seem like a great deal. I did all of the other upgrades, but I think I’ll pass on this one unless I am missing something special that makes it worth $100.
Quoted from rosh:There has been some confusion and mis-communication on this. The plain plastic topper is included. You can also purchase just the topper, and that I believe that is the $100. You can also purchase an animated version of topper done by Pingraffix, that was on display at TPF (as was animated side art). Pingraffix should be making this available soon, I do not know the pricing. A clarification on the topper will be going out to our distributors shortly. Sorry for the confusion.
Knocker -- which is used during multiple modes during the game, including Duck Hunt and Target Shooting, so it really does add to the game experience and I highly recommend it.
Shaker Motor -- also used in many places, as expected and we are still adding it to some modes.
Magic Glass
Thank you for the clarification! I thought it seemed off. My distributor emailed today and told everyone that was incorrect. I would like to see the animated topper. That could be interesting.
4 weeks later
Quoted from Ferret:Changes to music and animations and callouts, several key bug fixes, better scoring balance, rules tweaks in several features, some new adjustments, better MagNab logic, and more... It's a pretty huge update.
Can you tell us when it will ship? I just got my notice of delivery!
Mine is apparently taking a greyhound bus through middle America. They told me that the earliest I could get it would be Monday. Unfortunately that perfectly conflicts with a business trip I have next week. That means I won’t even be able to touch it until two weeks from now! #firstworldproblems.
Speaking of “touching it”, has anyone put a playfield protector on it? I am curious as to the level of effort considering the high population of things on the playfield.
Quoted from PinMonk:Yeah, of the trademarks they've registered, Sherlock Holmes seems to have the most potential. Really looking forward to seeing what they can do with it (and hoping they have hired a good artist/art director).
I like unique pinball themes. It seems like things can easily "jump the shark" when studios have to stay within the confines of a specific theme. That said, I imagine it is somewhat relieving for them as it reduces infinity in terms of ideas and directions.
1 week later
I just unpacked mine today and unfortunately I have a lot of problems. 
I really feel like my game must have missed soothe play testing phase because some of these are pretty egregious.
For context, all legs are screwed all the way in (setting at 6 degrees per the manual). I have 6 balls installed, and when going directly into switch test after boot, I see the attached arrangement of lights. I also updated to the latest code after about an hour of messing with it out of the box.
-Out of the box, the corkscrew switches would not work. They failed the switch test so I reseated all of the plugs. That didn’t work, so I decided to be brave and reversed the ribbon cable connector (since it isn’t keyed). Doing that caused one of the switches to work. Then I flipped it back around and they all started working. So this one is a win.
-The ball jumps off the end of the wire ramp from the VUK and drains nearly every time.
-About 70% of the time, the balls fail to exit the ball trough. After the solenoid fires ~10 time, the game just sits until it does a ball search. Often after doing the ball search it will trigger a drain sequence.
-Starting a new game will sometimes immediately fire a ball out and into the play field with no plunge. This happens if it succeeds in getting the ball out of the trough (last bullet) then with zero warning it blasts it into play. When this happens the whole cycle takes about 1/2 a second from start button press to ball launch.
-Ball drains are frequently not registered. All trough IR switches seem to be working per tests.
-Drop target will not stay up which causes ver rapid cycling. It stays up about once ever 15 tries, but it is random. I have no idea how to adjust this without removing a lot of hardware, I will consider that tomorrow.
-Pre-installed Mylar is bubbly and rough to the touch.
-All pop bumpers fire at the same time regardless of which pop bumper is the first to be hit.
I really wanted to love this game, but all of these issues have really crushed my excitement . I expect a few issues out of the box, but this seems a bit excessive. I will research filing for appropriate support with AP tomorrow. I just wanted to get this documented in case someone has a suggestion.
DC870287-90C8-4EC9-ABE0-2612A4CE32A4 (resized).jpegQuoted from Ferret:Hi @aniraf ...
I'm so sorry that you've had a bad out-of-box experience with your game. Of course that is not acceptable, we want you to be able to enjoy your new game right away. Although I'm not API Customer Service, I'm up at this silly hour so I'll take a crack at whatever I can...Try reducing the power of the Food Stand VUK via the operator menu: Settings > Coils > VUK.
So for all of these, I'm worried about your photo that appears to show the Ball Trough Jam switch active. If the Trough Jam opto is being triggered when there's no ball there, weird stuff is gonna happen. My first thought would be to try re-seating the trough board connectors (with the game powered off, please!) to see if that helps.
You can try strengthening the drop target reset via the adjustments: Settings > Coils > Drop Target. It may just need a little extra "oomph" to have it securely reset.
Ack, that's pretty scary. If you go into Tests > Switches and trigger one of the pop bumper rings with your finger, does the screen show all the bumpers activating, or just the one you touched?
Again, I'm very sorry to hear you're having problems with your game, but I'm sure between myself and other API staff here, we can get you fixed up soon.
Thanks @ferret! I will test some of these things out. I was exhausted last night after unpacking this and another machine. What is the best way to contact AP support? Sorry, that is a lazy question…I’ll go find out.
Quoted from Ferret:Phone: 833-API-HELP
Email: [email protected]
Web: https://www.american-pinball.com/support/service/
Good luck, I hope you get these glitches worked out quickly, and then have a blast with the game.
Ok, quick update. First of all, thank you @rosh and @ferret for all of the support and ideas. I just got off the phone with Barry at tech support and I am happy to say that I should be at 100% now.
-trough kicker coil adjustment to lower power worked perfectly.
-pop bumps were not all firing at the same time, the weight of the cars makes them look like that.
-coaster lock I fixed as described above.
-drop target was fixed by powering up the coil as suggested here.
-VUK wire ramp jump issue was fixed with a lot of bending in the spots suggested by Barry.
Overall the game is playing well at this point. I’ll be putting a lot of cycles on it to make sure it is ready for the bar, so I may come back with some new discoveries.
Thank you AP for helping me out!
Quoted from bobukcat:The one at Helicon did that to me several times too, I forgot to mention that to them. Very frustrating and I think a ball save should be added to code until they can come up with a physical fix for this.
It was an easy fix once I started bending the wire form. I would imagine they could add this to the checklist before sending them out the door. I could imagine an operator simply deploying an untested game. To your point, if that happens then software might be the better fix.
Quoted from Ferret:I'm not averse to having such a ball saver. I didn't realize this was such a common problem. On my game it happens like 1% of the time, basically in the "that's pinball" category.
Thanks for the videos, @aniraf ... but ermigerd, the backboard illumination PWM in the slow-mo video, ouch...
Right! That flashing is murder on your eyes! That said, I cannot tell you how many pinball issues I have resolved with the slo-mo feature. If you watch it closely, you can see how the ball actually rides the edge of the wire all the way down, on my Cirqus Voltaire I had to analyze that from every angle so that I could get the minor tweaks in the wire to ensure it plays perfectly.
Now that I have about 3-4 hours on the game, I can comment about many of the points brought up by others…obviously all my opinion, and perhaps nothing AP would care about but they seem to follow the thread closely.
I agree the animations and font style and colors are just not great. They are completely passable and super minor in the scheme of things, but I do feel they drag down an otherwise amazing game. As stupid as it is, it tricks my brain into thinking the game is not complete or of good quality. I cannot wait to see how regular (non-pinhead) people react. This might be moot.
I don’t think the heavy metal fits. The rest of the music is actually pretty good. The metal chords and guitar squeals seem really misplaced to me.
I love all of the modes and stacking steins, but I am curious if less experienced people will get it. That said, there is so much fun stuff to shoot for! It kind of reminds me of Grand Theft Auto where there is a great story mode and missions but you end up just going wild and seeing how much chaos you can cause.
The machine hardware and its parts are phenomenal. The flipper guide (mentioned in @arcadem’s post) is brilliant! The little gravity triggered metal door that keeps the balls from falling out when you raise the play field…genius! It has excellent padding on the back box to ensure you don’t get scratched when you put the play field up and a very nice back box locking mechanism. Wiring is very clean and easy to navigate. The flat pressure switches with the ribbon cables are cool as hell! They even managed to leverage some Velcro to attach the keg spout. They installed tons of factory Mylar (mine is a little bubbly in places). Overall, the hardware is very well done.
I would absolutely recommend this machine to anyone interested in something creative. This is different from anything you have ever played and has a base that allows for extremely creative software changes over time.
Quoted from Roostking:If you ever have an Oktoberfest party, let me know
Absolutely! If you are in the Phoenix area it is going to go on location at a bar in Chandler called Hop Central. I am planning on doing a free play night with all 4 of my games on free play for customers of the bar. I am just making sure the machine is ready for customers.
Hitting the left orbit should send the ball all the way around correct? I assume it should only stop at the pop bumps if you use the magnet.
On my game, the ball seems to hit something and stop around the pop bumps most of the time. I haven’t been able to catch it on a recording yet, but I was curious to see if anyone else is having that issue.
Oddly my VUK ramp issue has come back and the ball is once again firing off into the outlane. I guess my wireform bends didn’t stick. I am going to go back to tweaking it. I’ll let everyone know if I discover some secrets .
Aside from that, I wanted to call out how good all of music variation is. I know I was critical of the metal but the rest of the music is really great and fits the various modes.
I haven’t quite figured out all of the music triggers yet. A lot of times I go to shoot the ball and the default track (which sounds little Irish to me) is playing, then the ball bounces near Otto and the music flips to something more oom-pah. That one is a little strange, but completely tolerable.
Quoted from rosh:Labeled where? The support section on our website, under Oktoberfest should have the installation instructions.
For testing the coil, it is under Settings->Test->Cabinet->Knocker
Sorry, I should have been more clear. Inside the UX where I can adjust coil power there is no coil labeled “knocker” or something similar. There are a few which are just numbers. I suspect it is one of those since the knocker is optional.
Quoted from Ferret:Can you clarify what you're hoping to achieve? Unlike many other coil settings where an operator might want to adjust coil strengths to ensure that balls are kicked with appropriate strength, the knocker is more about the experience. The knocker shouldn't be very sensitive to things like playfield level. We intentionally play with knocker strength in code to make weaker or stronger THUNK!s based on the experience we're trying to convey... and unlike coils that interact with the ball that may be very sensitive to strength, there's no real penalty if the knocker is a bit too strong or too weak.
But if we're overlooking situations where it makes sense for operators to adjust the knocker strength, please let us know.
Thanks!
I wanted to make it slightly more quiet. It is fine as is for me, but the bar this game is going to might prefer something quieter. Hard to say. I’ll just tell them I cannot change it.
Quoted from Ferret:As Paul notes in the previous message, the more frequent usage of the knocker (during modes) does have Off/Soft/Medium/Loud options. Volume isn't currently adjustable for the replay knock. If you feel the volume is still too loud, of course there are "hack" solutions like putting a piece of felt on the strike plate to physically dampen the volume.
Hope this helps!
No, I like your answers. It was designed as the artist intended .
I got even more cycles on the game today. I want slightly alter my comments about the rock music…I think it is fine in the Rockin Express tent.
I did unfortunately notice a lot of points where the animations and modes would lag the real-time events that the ball was experiencing. It almost feels like the classic NES slowdown when too many things are happening at once. The game usually rebounds, but I received at least four black screens where all of the play field lights went dark before it snapped on to something else.
I managed to get a ball stuck at the top of the corkscrew ramp. It took me a full tilt to get it out of there. I had to lift the machine by one side very slightly. I also managed to hit a perfect corckscrew shot from the upper flipper. I swear it happened and I cannot begin to tell you how that is possible.
The mag nabs have been triggering and missing the ball a lot of the time. Sometimes they will trigger when the ball is nowhere near them. I am not sure how the auto trigger works, but it has been a little off today.
Lastly, my friend got a high score and there is a difference between the final game screen and saved score which just seems odd. (pictures posted)
35042E84-5923-4B9E-AA78-DFD1DF0AFBBD (resized).jpegCC1DD572-660D-4152-AB6D-04D085728AA8 (resized).jpegQuoted from Ferret:We've been doing some cleanup recently that should minimize occurrences like this.
Wow. Certainly never seen that. Looks like the difference is exactly 10,600, which would be the bonus (assuming no bonus X and the tent won wasn't on the last ball)... was there a tilt on the last ball or anything like that? My best guess at the moment is that something interfered with awarding bonus as expected... but why it would show up in one place and not the other is gonna take some investigating. Thanks for the report!
No tilt, but there was a weird thing that happened inside the chugging mode. It switched to Otto and then went black screen and then said something like “you cheated” and next thing you know the mode was over.
I forgot to mention a couple more items…
My left loop opto does not consistently recognize the shot. This is one of those things that seems to correlate with the “slow down” when in muktiball modes like juggling.
Something causes a failed ball eject to trigger the “ball saved” animation occasionally. My guess is that the code is focused on the trough optos and not also listening for the shooter lane switch, but I don’t know.
Lastly, one code suggestion: when you go to start a new game and the balls haven’t yet made it back to the trough, maybe throw up the warning a few times before going into the ball search. I know impatient customers are going to tag that button three times before the balls return and I feel like that is unnecessary wear on the coils. (No science was used in that statement).
Thank you for reading these. This game has a lot of promise. I would again recommend people keep a close eye on this title because 2-3 more code updates and you will have something really remarkable.
Does anyone have some suggested scoring tips? I feel like this game just keeps kicking my ass. I was able to break a million one time only. I feel like I am doing something wrong.
Quoted from Ferret:If we did our jobs right, there's no single straightforward "do this and blow the game up" strategy... but here are some things to consider:
- Tents are the main scoring opportunities of the game. The value of shots in tents is based on the number of ducks you have. You earn ducks by hitting unlit duck standups around the playfield, and by winning tent modes.
- An implication of the previous statement is that the early game goal re: tents is not necessarily scoring big points, it's simply winning the tent. So early in the game, consider playing tents that you think you have a good chance of winning, even if they're not super valuable themselves. Save more point-rich tents for later, once you've accumulated enough ducks to juice up their scoring a bit.
- Of course strategic selection of steins is key. Remember that each stein offers two power-ups: a "global" effect (like making it easier to start multiballs or giving more playfield X time), and multiplying the scoring of a specific tent. By design, stronger global effects tend to be paired with less valuable tents, and vice versa... but this also means that there are some steins that have fairly balanced global effects and matched tents. Those might be better choices early on. And generally you'll really want to have the stein associated with any tent you choose to play.
- The two main multiballs (Beer Barrel and Corkscrew) aren't necessarily big points on their own, so ideally you do something to amp them up. Steins are one way to do that (Frosty Ferret for Beer Barrel, Freak Show Rooster for Corkscrew). The other is to get calories at the Food Stand. The most calorie-rich Food Stand features are the alternating ones: 2nd, 4th, etc.
- If at all possible, have a tent going when you start a multiball. Some of the tents to stack with multiball are obvious choices (frenzy-ish tents like Füd Frenzy and Bumper Cars) but don't overlook some of the others... e.g. Duck Hunt can be a very good choice; you might be surprised how many incidental duck target hits you get during a multiball.
- If you've won 2, 3, or more tents in a single ball, Tent Win Bonus will probably start becoming huge, and you may want to start focusing on raising your bonus X (complete all 4 distinct duck targets), possibly with a Reclab Redrum Stout in hand to boost the increase. Several million points in bonus alone is possible.
Have fun!
This is excellent! Thank you!
I had another UX/Code suggestion. I like what you guys are trying to do with the tent screens, but I think putting them all on one UI like the stein screen might be a little more effective. Sometimes the big screen scrolling effects aren't really worth the drama. The end user is better capable of selecting the next tent when they all show up in the same order, indicate if they have any current stein bonus, and indicate if you have completed them or not.
I could sketch something up if that helps to explain...but I don't want to overstep. You guys keep doing what you need to do .
Quoted from rosh:You can see all of that and move to the desired tent far faster by looking down at the playfield. The selection (flashing white) always goes in order (direction based on which flipper hit), if Yellow you played it but did not win, green you won it, beer color means you have the stein and have not yet played it.
Oh, I didn't realize the playfield reflected the selection screen. I'll have to try that!
Quoted from mcbPalisade:This mensch is sage... great advice any day of the week
The ducks element wasn’t clear to me. Shooting kit targets over and over would net me 100k in tents. Now I see that going into tents should be done in a calculated way.
Quoted from arcadem:Once again, the AP team proves to be the best you can hope to have. Those AP guys must never take time off. Both Josh and Barry of AP responded tonight to my support request and the problem was quickly solved. Barry sent me photos of where and how to tweak the wire forms and what level to adjust the VUK coil power to and all is good now. The solution might be different for someone else's machine but it was right on for mine. Many thanks to Barry and Josh (Rosh). And, I have to say it one more time, OKTOBERFEST is absolutely amazing! It is one of my all time favorite pins and I recommend playing it to all who get the chance but beware, you'll want one.
I got the same treatment. Very nice to see!
I had a weird thing happen on the last chance mode where it gives you three shots to hit the tent scoop. Basically I entered the mode and then it auto fired all three balls. I never got a chance to pull the plunger at all . I’m not sure how to reproduce it.
Quoted from BarryJ:Do not set your Oktoberfest up like this owner.
There is no way that you will make any shots consistently on Oktoberfest with the incline jacked up, there just isn't enough power in the flippers.
Please keep the leg levelers in the same position as you receive them (levelers all the way in). Otherwise your game will be one brick after another.
If you find a game on location and it isn't playing like it should, check the levelers on the legs, if they look like these, tell the location to screw in those levelers!!
Call me if you need more info, 224.422.3191[quoted image]
HAHAHA...don't set any game up like those leg levelers! The rear ones look like they will snap off at the first bump.
1 week later
I had a ball fly off the barrel lock ramp and end up in this spot behind Otto. Although stuck balls are nothing new, the code did not handle this well. After two ball searches, it ejected another ball. I played that ball and when it drained it went back to searching for the first ball. Then the exact same thing happened again. Theoretically that puts the game on “free play” every time you get a stuck ball. I wanted to pass this along in hope that it might get a solution .
CA5ABE2F-E80D-4121-A94A-F366D3D41D6F (resized).jpegF108F46E-28F5-41B1-ACA7-93EC1523CD2E (resized).jpegQuoted from Aniraf:I had a ball fly off the barrel lock ramp and end up in this spot behind Otto. Although stuck balls are nothing new, the code did not handle this well. After two ball searches, it ejected another ball. I played that ball and when it drained it went back to searching for the first ball. Then the exact same thing happened again. Theoretically that puts the game on “free play” every time you get a stuck ball. I wanted to pass this along in hope that it might get a solution .[quoted image][quoted image]
Of course! Hopefully you don’t mind me throwing them out here on the forum.
Quoted from gamera9:My wife and had a blast playing Oktoberfest at Hop Central.[quoted image]
So cool! I am happy you had fun! I should be there next weekend to get the games waxed and ready for the big 7/20 event. Hopefully I’ll get to meet a couple of local pinheads over the next few weekends.
Quoted from Aniraf:I had a ball fly off the barrel lock ramp and end up in this spot behind Otto. Although stuck balls are nothing new, the code did not handle this well. After two ball searches, it ejected another ball. I played that ball and when it drained it went back to searching for the first ball. Then the exact same thing happened again. Theoretically that puts the game on “free play” every time you get a stuck ball. I wanted to pass this along in hope that it might get a solution .[quoted image][quoted image]
Quoting my own post. This happened again on location. I just went to the bar to fix it. Is there any way to tilt the plastic back there so that the ball will roll off of it?
Quoted from Ferret:Try giving Barry at API Customer Support a call or text: (224) 422-3191.
The software handling of this situation should be improved in the upcoming version, BTW.
Cool, I will get in touch with him.
After one week on route I can already tell that AP accomplished the mission in terms of creating a deep rule set inside of a game that appeals to non-pinball players. People gravitate to this machine.
First, why are there three distinct posts on Oktoberfest? Can we all just agree this one is the “club” since it has the most history?
Second, I found a new place for the ball to get stuck tonight. I am actually completely surprised my this one, but it needed the glass lifted for sure!
3DB3B280-076B-4BBD-9FC7-70A304F5F9E1 (resized).jpegAt the little tournament I did tonight, I found one more ball trap. This one came flying off the Prost targets and caught enough air to end up on top of the plastic.
We had a lot of good players and everyone really seemed to enjoy the game. I saw only one beer barrel lock in about 150 games or so. Unfortunately someone took my USB with the audits so I am guessing .
7EB340A1-1E60-4F5E-A7CD-99EEA3136CCE (resized).jpegQuoted from Ferret:Very glad to hear that everyone had fun with Oktoberfest!
But... only one Beer Barrel LOCK in 150 GAMES? Honestly, without more information, I'm not sure what to tell you, but something isn't right there. The Beer Barrel ramp is not an easy shot, but it certainly shouldn't be that hard. Maybe try adjusting your "Upr R Flipper Main" coil strength up, or down. Check the level and slope of the game (intended configuration is for all leg levelers to be fully in, except for what's required to level the game left-to-right).
Just speaking for myself: I'm a solid but not exceptional player, admittedly with a lot of experience on Oktoberfest. If I'm just playing and not testing something specific, I expect to get a couple Beer Barrel locks EACH GAME. Certainly it's easier from a flipper MagNab, but even for players unfamiliar with the MagNab button, there are enough automatic MagNab opportunities in the game that players should be able to lock balls in the Beer Barrel. I'd love to hear any information you can provide on what you've seen here, so hopefully we can help guide you into getting the Beer Barrel working as expected for your players. One thing to note is that the game has audits for both making the Beer Barrel ramp shot ("Upper Ramp Made") as well as actually locking balls in the Beer Barrel ("Beer Barrel Lock 1", "Beer Barrel Lock 2", "Beer Barrel Lock 3"), so hopefully these can provide some objective data for the situation.
Thanks!
I agree, the shot is hard but very possible. I mentioned that in thinking it would be interesting for you guys to know that most players weren’t going for it. It could have either been bad shots or lack of interest in that lock. It could be an opportunity to add a significant reward for reaching it.
Personally I find the shot seems a bit more difficult when it is coming off the magnet. Increasing the coil strength makes that easier, but comes with an added issue of jumping off the ramp when making the shot off the roll.
I am pretty happy with where it sits right now as it is possible to make it off the roll, or off the magnet with perfect timing, but doesn’t consistently fly off the yellow ramp.
Anyway, I figured I would provide you with the anecdotal data since I cannot find that usb with the audits on it .
I do think a plastic shield around the whole yellow ramp might allow for operators to amp up the power to the flipper, but I am not sure if that would make it more or less fun. You might end up with more ball damage to surrounding targets too?
Does anyone recognize this chip? I found it in the cabinet during the cleaning I did right after my tournament. I cannot imagine that it fell off of anything as it looks like the legs were cleanly clipped, but I don't know. Sorry the photo is a bit blurry, the chip is super small.
IMG_1391 (resized).jpegQuoted from bobukcat:Hard to tell for sure from your picture but it looks like a SMD (surface mount device) capacitor.
Yeah, I think you are correct. I'll get the machine open again and take a look. Oddly it does not seem to be impacting anything.
Quoted from benheck:It's a tantalum capacitor. It was probably being used as a voltage rail power filter which is why losing it wouldn't noticeably affect anything.
You should solder it back on. Note the line on one side - this indicates the positive end and it must be re-installed correctly just like an electrolytic cap.
I need to find where it came from first. Also I am not sure how my surface mount soldering skills fair. I’ll see what I can do ASAP.
The new update looks awesome so far. I am going to get out to the bar tonight and give it some play. I like the new screens!
Different topic, while I was at the bar patching the game, I looked for where that tantalum capacitor came from. I cannot find it! Every one of the node boards looks completely populated with the exception of one spot (circled) which I think is supposed to be like that. Does anyone see something I am missing? Pictures of these boards are hard, sorry.
178C6266-FFD2-45CA-8282-F11AF0BCFFB4 (resized).jpeg2A923719-DAA7-45B1-B26F-F2A62DA89AEA (resized).jpeg30E7205E-4B13-4BFA-8C77-948780BC09C0 (resized).jpeg401AEA42-F6EE-47EF-8919-981FD7960531 (resized).jpegB895BCA0-2BE6-4E5F-9F1A-E02FC5B84A08 (resized).jpegDE4D1C7A-7931-4FC6-8A78-8A3869F98627 (resized).jpegF87942E4-EA5F-40CC-A04F-844300D6E7A9 (resized).jpegFA6A2E74-8F4F-4F0D-BE0E-78C2D87504B2 (resized).jpegQuoted from Roostking:Does the capacitor look like it broken off? Maybe you aren't actually missing anything.
I wish I could take a super macro picture of it…but no, the “legs” are sheered off and there is no sign of residual solder. The only reason I would think that it fell off of something is because it was in the cabinet and I can’t believe AP is building up these boards while they are in the cabinet.
Quoted from Paul_from_Gilroy:I don’t have access to my machine at the moment, but comparing your photos to the images on Multimorphic’s web site, it looks like this might be the spot...[quoted image]
If you look at pictures 1 vs 2, they both have 3 of those capacitors in the same spaces and omit the one you circled. I was comparing those because they looked to be the same board, but perhaps you are correct and I am actually missing 2 of them?
I emailed Barry at AP but haven’t gotten a response yet.
Quoted from Paul_from_Gilroy:Just peeked in my game. That cap is omitted in my game too. In your photos, there’s a board that has 5 caps. My game has three of those boards (I only see two in your photos). So make sure you checked all three of those boards.
Oh good catch. I must have missed one.
1 week later
Quoted from LTG:Anybody figure out the secret flipper code on Oktoberfest yet ?
LTG : )
Don’t start rumors if they aren’t true. The last thing I need are a bunch of punks trying to enter the Konami code on my Oktoberfest .
3 months later
On location I tend to hear a lot of players comment about the low scoring Oktoberfest is. At first, I was charmed by it. “How logical that these guys built a game with real scores” I would say. Now after a few months I see people trending away from OKT simply because they “feel” like they aren’t doing well.
As stupid as it is, as an operator I am going to throw out a vote for a scoring revision that brings the game into the hundreds of millions and billions that people seem to expect.
The game is fantastic and I hate to see people shy away because they don’t understand it.
I can certainly understand how complex that change would be, and I completely appreciate the design team giving me the big middle finger. I just wanted to let you know “what the people are saying” .
Quoted from Paul_from_Gilroy:I think, in some games, big honkin’ scores in the billions are part of the fun (for example, AFM). Maybe even part of the wow factor. In some low scoring games where the score increases by tiny increments leading to a low total score (for example, WOZ)... I never felt that scoring model added (or subtracted) anything in terms of fun
I am with you 100%. I just thought it would be smart to explain the psyche of my players. I’ve heard a wide range of players comment on it. Everyone from novice to semi-pro.
2 weeks later
Shit…right after a Rick and Morty Spooky announcement? Sign me up for American Harry Potter! Do owners of Oktoberfest get priority? .
2 months later
Quoted from DanDanDAN:Yup contact your local distributor!
Cool! I have been working with Barry on an issue with my bar and he keeps going dark. I am sure he is busy, but my players are starting to skip Oktoberfest because it is consistently messed up . Is there any way to get a new bar ordered?
1 week later
I just replaced the bar thanks to AP for sending me a new one, but oddly enough all of my lights are white now and won’t change . Anyone have an idea what I could have screwed up?
Quoted from Ferret:The lamps all default to white on power-up until the game starts sending them commands, so the fact that they're stuck all-white suggests that commands aren't getting to them. Seems likely that it's a connector that got knocked loose when you were working on the bar. Since it's ALL of the lights, suggests it's the head of the chain. Do buttons and coils work properly? For example, can you use the operator buttons to enter test mode and fire some coils? If so, that suggests that switches and coils are working, and it's just the lamp interface that's disconnected. If switches and coils aren't working, I'd be more suspicious of the interface between the PC and P-ROC.
Sorry for the inconvenience, we'll getcha back rollin' ASAP!
The game works 100% in play and in the test modes. Light tests don’t do anything because only the lights on the Ferris wheel seem to be changing color. I am not sure what I could have f’ed up as the bar is really a clean install.
Quoted from Ferret:No worries. I'm a serious night owl. Barry is most certainly a better resource for hardware/electrical issues than I am (I'm a stupid software guy ) but I'll take a swat...
If you lift the playfield, looking at the underneath view, in the lower-left corner, very close to the bar assembly, are two PCBs mounted perpendicular to the playfield, with quite a number of connector plugs on each of them. Check all the connectors on those PCBs carefully to ensure that they're all firmly seated... they're close enough to the area that you were working that it's possible you bumped something loose that's interrupting the data flow to the light boards.
(True story: I was doing some electrical work on my Game 3 prototype last week, and had a mis-seated connector that resulted in the exact problem you describe, every light stuck white. Once I found and re-seated that one connector, all the lights went back to working properly.) (Ooooh, I just leaked the info that Game 3 has... connectors. And PCBs!)
Good luck, I hope you find something easy-peasy!
I went through those two boards and reseated all of the connections. The A, B and C connectors I replaced with the new bar should have been the only ones which were even touched, but as you mentioned I was concerned that maybe I bumped something.
There is a little forked connector (I assume ground) that screws under one of the nuts on the bottom of the bar. I don’t know if that could have any impact. I tried to get it back exactly like it was.
Could someone take a picture of the open connections on those boards just to make sure I have all of the correct ones filled?
Quoted from T3quila:I'm out and about for the remainder of the day - if nobody posts here, remind me via pm tomorrow and I'll take pictures tomorrow evening for you.
Thanks!! I might try to call Barry today if I can make it over to the bar. I don’t know if I can bother him on a Sunday though.
Quoted from rosh:Not at a machine, but check for a thin two wire twisted cable, that connects to the board on the back of the back panel. Possible it got pulled off and is dangling or in the cabinet.
Cool! Thank you for the help guys! I am going over there in an hour. I’ll give it another look them bother Barry if I can’t find it. Has to be something simple. That bar was a clean replacement.
Quoted from BarryJ:Sorry.
Did you open up a Service Ticket?
https://www.american-pinball.com/support/service/
Service Tickets are the only way to get warranty replacement parts.
Also there was a change over to a new shipping/postage platform, this has caused abnormally long pre-shipment times.
Yep, you sent it to me! Everything is great . I'm sending the broken one back to you this week.
1 year later
My captive ball broke. Is there any “easy” way to replace it? It looks like I’ll need to go through quite a few layers in order to get in there.
Also, I am having issues with my coaster ramp opto. It registers with slight vibrations. I know how to fix it, but again…I can’t see a way to get in there and check it out.
If anyone has a guide or pictures let me know. I would normally go take everything apart, but the machine is on location and that tends to be a pain.
Quoted from LTG:Did the ball just come off the post it's pressed on ? If so a little 5 minute epoxy and stick that sucker back on there.
If the post broke, then you'd need a new one. brenna98 mentioned removal above.
LTG : )
It is still on there, but no longer attached. Since the hole in the wood is slightly smaller than the thick part of the shaft that attaches to the ball, it still "works". I figured I could get some JB weld on there and it would be great but I was looking for a cheat to re-install it from the top down . Like brenna98 said, you need to remove quite a bit in order to properly install it. I'll have to figure out how to do the surgery in the wild or else I'll pack it up and swap it with a game from home.
brenna98 thank you for the tips on the coaster opto! I'll have to take a look at that and figure out exactly what is going on.
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