certainly when you have two balls locked, you have to make that choice around higher jackpots or high scoring in a mode you hope to stack with it. Also makes you think early in a game about which to go for, e.g. get a couple of abby nirmals, to get more ducks quickly to increase tent scoring, however, since you pretty much want to have a least 1 stein when you play a mode, is that one of the first modes you want to play or would you rather stack that with a MB.

It is one of the reasons why there is no 'one best path' through the game.

yup. if i have a couple balls locked for either of the MB's i'll usually focus on getting the steins stacked up before starting the MB.

seems like my normal order is:

easy tent letters -> spinner value -> easy ducks -> more tilt warnings (if needed) -> MB steins (if balls are locked) -> Etc.

but who am i kidding... i usually take the maximum number of tilt warning steins and shake the hell out of the game to make up for my mediocre skills.

That's what makes the game great, changing your strategy based on how the game is going. I usually start with ducks, try to get the duck extra ball quicker. Then either tent time or letters, then it's up in the air depending on where I am. I love this game.

Since there's only one Oktoberfest in the whole of England we decided to hold an Oktoberfest tournament tomorrow so that more people can try it out.

Here's the tournament cake:

APcake (resized).jpg

Just had a weird bug. While starting duck derby, the second ball launched from the lane but the original one never left the scoop. Eventually I shot the 2nd one in, but the ball search never kicked them out. It did a ball search twice in what seemed like an eternity, probably 2-3 min between each one. After two ball searches it launched another one from the shooter lane. Eventually that went into the scoop too, same 2 long ball search waits and the fourth ball launched. That too eventually ended up in the scoop and a ball search got that one out. I let it drain to see what would happen and it just launched back out. It eventually went back in the scoop and waited 10 minuyes and no ball search. I had to turn the game off, meanwhile I had my best game going, 8.8mil, very disappointing. Here's a photo of all 4 in the scoop.

20190928_121546 (resized).jpg

Don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate that the player chooses his path through the game and therefore the number of possible paths is massive! What I'm saying is that after several hundred games the player will have explored the options and fine tuned his path knowing that he's found the best one... and from then on there will be no more experimentation necessary... he'll know the best path and take it... the only reason for taking another path in this case would be to force variety... I fully appreciate this will take a LONG time to get to this point, but I'm planning on keeping this game for a LONG time because it does tick all the boxes for me... I have a suggestion how to encourage the player to take different paths to effectively add even more variety to the gameplay...

OK, I'll briefly explain... I can't hold back any longer

The idea is that instead of being able to select ANY mode when you enter mode start, the modes you can start are limited to where you are 'standing' in the festival... just like if you were at the actual festival; you're more likely to go into tents near where you are... and where you 'are' is indicated by one of 4 'primary' tent lights blinking (or pulsing)... these tents basically give you access to adjacent tents (and that tent of course)... here's my suggested way of accessing tents as an example:

Standing at 'Duck Hunt' gives you access to Target Shooting, Juggling, Füd Frenzy and, of course, Duck Hunt.

Sky Slide accesses itself, Rockin' Express and Bumper Cars.

Tap It accesses itself, Ring Toss, Looper and Bumper Cars.

Finally, Rotor access itself, Ring Toss, Looper, Stein Race and Chugging.

To move your location you have to hit the spinner... say 5 or so spins moves you clockwise around these 4 tents Duck Hunt, Sky Slide, Tap It and Rotor.

As you can see, some tents are accessible from more than one primary tent...

With this 'limited selection' of tents based on where you're standing, you'd have to decide if you move your position by hitting the spinner or go into the mode selection from where you are...

Also, you might want to select modes that are only accessible from one location first so that as you complete modes the modes remaining are accessible from more than one tent... this would reduce the number of shots to the spinner you'd have to make to gain access to the tent you need to complete... a player strategy...

This will encourage the player to choose different paths through the game since he'll tend to shoot the mode start even if the mode he'd ideally want to play isn't available from where he's standing on the basis that having to hit the spinner 3 times wouldn't be worth the benefit of gaining access to that 'ideal tent'... or maybe It would

Check the tent layout on the game to see how this suggestion will pan out...

It would also give the player the feeling of actually being at the festival walking around the tents

As complicated as it sounds, I think it might be not too hard to program in...?? Just a blinking light to show where you are linked to limiting modes and the spinner moving the location to one of 4 tents... but the variety to the gameplay and the extra strategy would, I imagine, outweigh this extra code I feel... not being a programmer I can't vouch for that statement though...??

Sorry for the lengthy post... well done if you read it all!

Sorry about that... I think it's my fault because I bought the last one Phil Palmer had and had it shipped out to Czech...

Amazing cake!!! Hope it tastes as good as it Looks!

[SNIP]

Yikes. That isn't fun. I apologize that the game had a problem, especially during a great game! Never heard of this one AFAIK. You can try capturing logs and sending them to us, though it might be too late for that. I take it the scoop switch is otherwise working fine? When you described that situation, what jumped to mind was the scoop switch not being active so the game didn't know the balls were in there, though that probably doesn't explain some of the other symptoms. :/

The scoop is working fine I believe, started almost all the tents and this was actually the second Duck Derby that game. I tilted it manually to see if it would end the ball so I could enter my initials. It tilted, then kicked all 4 balls out and froze at the tilt/door open screen until I turned it off.

Anyone yet commented on why Bumper Cars mode was getting jokes for being way too lucrative during some Tournament last week? It was broadcast on Twitch and a player went from like 400K to 2.2 Million in about 20 seconds. Announcer just laughed it off and said, "Wow, those Bumper Cars are sure powerful". Not even sure if it was due to the Bumper cars to be honest. It was nearly an instant score jump (bug) or something nuts. Only happened once. Rest of players lost.. immediately. Lol.

Played in a monthly match play tournament today where the location had an Oktoberfest. They have over 30 games, but didn’t include Oktoberfest because of the long ball times of everyone choosing Juggling as their first mode. I personally disagree with them because plenty of games have easy multiballs right off the bat, but maybe there should be a setting that makes at a single ball mode the 2nd+ time it is chosen by the same player.

Could’ve had a playfield x, some mode boosters, and the 2nd Food food, but still that seems excessive. Normally that isn’t one of the higher scoring modes unless you have a multiball running

Not the same thing but a few times I have had 2 in the scoop and took a few tries but they kicked out. One time they would not quite kick up high enough and went into ball search. The ball search was able to kick them out and the game went on.

While ago I finally got one ball in the beer barrel after probably 80 games since last time I made the shot. I am not complaining, I am not that great of a player. I know what I need to hit, but half the time I can not make the shot(any shot) on any machine.

While ago I had my best game on Okt so far 3.5mil. I finally beat the preset score on Duck Derby. It had confused me in the past, but I finally seen that with everything flashing red on the game there was one green target and when I hit it everything else went green again.

I was trying to take advantage of the steins, but I kept missing that or it would bounce back out. In the 3.5m game I only had 3 steins.

I love this game!

Do you have a link to this tournament video? Of course Bumper Cars can be lucrative, as almost every tent mode can...

We certainly debated that behavior (many times!). Thing is, while Juggling is active, there's really not much that's valuable besides the lit Juggling shot. It's much more beneficial to win Juggling, collect its tent bonus / duck bonus, and move on... and once you've won it, you can't play it again. If you're getting the opportunity to play it again, it means you got negligible points on it the first time through. (Also: personally I never choose Juggling early in the game. You really want to accumulate some ducks first to make it worthwhile.)

Yes, if the first couple ball search attempts are unsuccessful, the code temporarily boosts the strength of the scoop and VUK kickers to help eject any balls that might be causing trouble.

<<Do you have a link to this tournament video?>>

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/485115647

2:52 mark to 2:54 mark. Looks like he also started Target Shooting mode, plus ended with a bonus of 823,000 which never hurts.

<<If you're getting the opportunity to play Juggling again, it means you got negligible points on it the first time through>>

Thanks for the explanation, Ferret. As long as the rest of the pf isn't worth much during repeat Juggling attempts it might be negligible.
Note: Trying to collect the right loop kept invoking the magnet which blocked the needed Juggler shot last time I played on route with fairly newer code. Since right orbit was the only Juggler shot lit, this seemed to block my Juggler progress as magnet kept stopping the ball from going around the loop.

The second (and fourth) food stands can also help jack up points when in the pops, especially if you stack with a MB.

As Ferret said, send us the logs (machine will keep logs for the last 10 times the machine was turned on). Ball search should start in 20 seconds or so, unless a switch is hit, or the ball is on a stop switch that prevents it, like the shooter lane, shaking the machine can cause false switch hits in the locks that can delay ball search.

Juggling a mode I never play early, and one I look to use when I have a food stand running, since that is really the only thing worthwhile to stack it with. As stated, only way to make it pay off otherwise is to 'win it'.

I suspect few folks who have logged more time on Oktoberfest than Ferret and myself, and I certainly have not found the "best path" through, and I think he would say the same. I'm sure players will start to settle into a set of things they like, but even when that happens, I suspect they will suddenly switch it up based on some new insight or game situation (especially in a multi-player game). Heck, I'm not even consistent with which I grab first.

And now we shall see who actually reads through my posts. We have a few owners who have started beta testing the next release and we will soon be expanding the beta, so if you are interested send me a PM.

That's a great idea @pinballslave! I can imagine the type of linear path you might want to take after you figure the game out... But wouldn't it be best to have all the lights in a group pulsing so the player knows exactly which modes he can start?

American Pinball are good at listening, so they might put this into a code update!!

I fully understand Rosh, and I thank you for taking the time to reply... I also see that the scope for mixing the game up is immense in this game, so maybe my concerns are unfounded... but I still can't escape the idea that mixing it up a bit more, and basically linking the mode selection with ball play (I.e. having to hit the spinner to access a different set of modes) rather than giving the player the full choice every time they enter the mode start will add a kind of awesome extra dimension to the game... and having the player's location shown on the actual map of the tents will give a greater feeling of actually being at the festival and looking to enter nearby tents. The 'shot avoidance' element introduced by wanting to avoid the spinner when the player is standing at the place he wants in order to enter the desired tent is also another interesting aspect to this...

On top of this I still think the long-term player will tend to gravitate to a well-trodden path after a while which this will mix up a bit...

And I certainly read all the posts on here with avid interest... this being my next NIB pin... I rarely buy NIB pins, so I tend to pay attention to all the info available when I do... last one was Transformers

My game is back up and running fully! Thanks to entire crew, especially Barry, for helping me get the issues fixed.

I had a fried barrel coil and blown transistor on a board that was wreaking havoc.

Enjoying all the features now of this fantastic game.

To the AP team:

You guys are making some awesome fun and deep machines.

I only have one widebody in my collection, and someday I want another one. I hope in the future you will consider building a widebody. As much as you pack in a game another 2000.00 would be fine.

Thanks!

This did cross my mind, and it would certainly be a another way to do it... it would make it more clear to the player which tents he'd have access to of course... and I'd definitely be very happy if AP did it this way... obviously... the only reason I suggested having one blinking light (or slowly pulsing) is that I see the light as a way of pinpointing the position of the player in the festival, and he can only be at one place... the tents he can enter are intuitively close to where he is the way they are suggested in my long post, and I think the player would quickly get the hang of which tents he can enter based on where he is... pinball players tend to pick things up quite quickly I think!

So, one question to American Pinball: is there a teeny tiny glimmer of a chance this mode tweak might be considered... how hard would it be? It would be a 'mechanism' for mode selection that I've not seen before in any other pinball that would aptly suit this game with there being a map of tents... and it would eliminate the 'well trodden path' effect that players might gravitate towards...

I took a peek at this... don't see any signs of anything wrong in this video. The player in this clip...

- Had almost 30 ducks when he started Bumper Cars. (Remember: ducks increase tent scoring.)
- Had an Abby Nirmal Cider stein, which doubles the scoring of Bumper Cars.
- Had some fortunate action on the upper slingshot. During Bumper Cars, all pop bumpers and slingshots award a value that slowly progresses, but the upper slingshot progresses the value much faster. This means that shooting the upper slingshot directly from the upper-right flipper, or indirectly via a rebound off the PROST targets, is a great idea during Bumper Cars. And if the upper sling and left pop bumper decide to play Ping Pong... good times.
- Added some time to the tent.
- Won two tents in the same ball (Juggling and Bumper Cars), which doubles the value of the Tent Win Bonus at the end of the ball. Tent Win Bonus can be HUUUUUGE. This is by design.

Hope this helps!

This is the strategy I usually play with. I get the stein for the bumper cars mode up level 3 and the corkscrew multiball jackpot to level 3 as well. I also do the boost for "spend more time in tents". Lock two balls, get into the bumper car mode, get the third ball up the corkscrew ramp to start multiball, and go from there. All of this mixed together will usually give me some pretty high scores. I think my best ball was 17 million and my best bonus was around 12 million. I've gotten a few 30 million games using this technique (37m is my highest so far).

I'm sure there are better techniques than this, but haven't figured them out yet.

Yeah, that makes sense. This is a game we're thinking of buying, but the thing that's holding us back is the fear that the fully open mode selections might lead us to make the same choices every game once it's known what the most lucrative path through the game is. This change would force alternate paths and really mix things up. If this change is implemented, it would put the game-play on another level.

Do you think you might take this on-board AP?

See post 3717

Not sure how to reply to this... I tried to explain my concern as accurately as possible... the concern is that several years down the line, when I've played the game x 100 times I can well imagine that there will be a pattern to the mode selections based on experience... I haven't owned the game for 5 years yet, so I can't say what that ideal route will be... there's also the benefit of feeling more connectedcl with the festival because you'll see where you are wandering around the tents... 5 years down the road American Pinball will be tweaking codes to other games and Oktoberfest will be a blast from the past... they'll be less interested in possible ways to polish the game then... I'm merely looking to the future... like I say, this game looks so awsome that I'm planning to keep it... for more than 5 years...

My suggestion seems to have wound you up a bit... I'm sincerely sorry about that...

It’s certainly an interesting idea. I just think that it’s a pretty major change. It’s nice to see more people come up with actually good ideas though.

I think I figured it out. I went to pull the logs and there are only 5 balls installed, maybe that caused the weird issue.

Edit: disregard, one was in the barrel lock

Anything is possible. One challenge is having sophisticated rules that are also easy to understand. For that reason and others, I don't see us changing the basics of the tents are played. Is it certainly possible we could later add settings to do something like this.

Regardless, if you want to get the 14th tent, you need to play them all. And winning tents can have a huge impact on your scoring, so learning to get good at winning each tent, is going to pay dividends.

Happy Birthday Dhaval !

LTG : )

The plunger from the scoop coil is hitting the scoop switch.

That may be why the scoop doesn't have enough power to kick out the stuck balls.

Hmmmm, maybe... but from a programming point I imagine it's not SUCH a big task... not being a coder though, I can only imagine... one blinking light over 4 tents, modes limited linked to which light is blinking, and the spinner changing the position of the light...

Personally speaking I think players will quickly grasp that they have to be close to a tent in order to go in it... it's got some intuitiveness to it in that respect... thats one of its benefits... like at the festival, you intuitively go into tents near where you are... and as currently, gaining access to the 14th tent would require all other tents to be complete of course...

The truth is that when I fork out a massive amount of cash it focusses my mind on how I can protect my investment, and I genuinely believe that this code update will give the game more legs and help it hold it's value... and to help me enjoy playing it more way down the road...

It's great to hear innovative suggestions from customers! It'd be fun (and probably chaotic ) to incorporate all the feedback we receive into the games, though from a practical standpoint, we can't use every idea we hear.

Just speaking for myself, I'm not at all worried about people getting tired of the One True Path in Oktoberfest, because I don't think there's such a thing. Your best strategy is going to vary based on what your opponent is doing. Sometimes "your opponent" is your buddy who's competing against you. And sometimes -- often! -- "your opponent" is your own play (or "the machine", if you want to think of it that way).

...Maybe you're usually great at shooting the left ramp, so you think The Looper tent is easy points... but today, you're just missing that shot for whatever reason. Better find another tent to play.

...Oops! You nudged the machine harder than you thought, and now you're on your final tilt warning. Do you want to pick up a Thor's Hammer Ale to give yourself an extra tilt warning? Might be a good idea, though that might not have been part of your original plan. And does that mean you'll play the Ring Toss tent next, even though that's not what you usually do?

...Hey, along the way you collected more ducks than you thought, now you're getting close to Duck Derby... should you grab an Abby Nirmal Cider to help collect ducks faster so you can reach the Derby?

etc etc etc... It all varies right from the plunge of ball 1: I make the bar skill shot most of the time on my machine... but sometimes I miss, so now I don't have that first stein I was expecting. What do I do about that?

Have fun exploring the game! Would certainly love to hear everyone's thoughts on what your personal "One True Path" is.

That describes my games lately very well. No complaints at all, game is awesome!

I appreciate your explanation Mr Ferret, and as I mentioned, my concerns about the 'one true path' syndrome could well be, and sound like they actually are, unfounded... I guess that leaves the benefit of the suggested code tweak as giving the player the feeling he's at the festival, plus the extra strategy of having to either avoid or hit the spinner to go into tents he wants... plus making it tougher to complete those final tents adding some suspense... and the strategy of choosing tents only accessible from one vantage point first to help in the later stages of the game

So... this whole “one true path thing...” is this not the case technically with EVERY game? There’s one mathematically perfect order to play in? This game is just way more complex than most so it would take a lot of data to figure it out

That happened in my Houdini, easy fix.

Flap or what ever on coin door not pushing the switch in far enough ?

LTG : )

How'd you do it? Nothing seems adjustable.

Like 3 times now my skill shot got messed up, the ball got stuck next to the bar door, I had to shake the game to free the ball, and the game says "you big sausage" and gives me 25,000 points.

I would rather have got a stein, but that is entertaining, just wondering what is up with that?

We believe this is fixed in the most recent code, which is now in beta. If you're interested in applying to beta test, please drop a note to rosh with your request, including your email address.

I find this happens all the time in pins... early on, you don't know the rules, so you're just trying to keep the ball alive and shoot the flashing shots, which is usually a reasonable thing to do. Once you know what you're doing, you try to set up an amazing all-or-nothing blowout: "OK, I need two more Frosty Ferret steins, then I'll start Duck Hunt, and then immediately stack Beer Barrel MB, and it'll be worth a ton!" That's great if you succeed at your plan, but if you don't, you've sacrificed the medium opportunities along the way. (Frequent competitive players will recognize this: it's the "best score" approach required in unlimited-qualifying competitions, vs the "good enough to win" approach of match-play.)

Not really... there's too much going on to mix things up already... the idea was to simply try and persuade people to take different routes through the game regarding the tent mode selections... plus the other stuff...

Another idea is fermenting in my head... similar benefits but not involving grouped tents, which I get could be frustrating... (the grouped tents idea that is, not the fact that there's another idea fermenting in my head!)

There is definitely a lot going on with this game to keep you busy figuring it out for many years!! I was just looking for a way to extend those years a bit

When you get too good you can always set it to one handed play.

You still might choose the same tents though

Just reshape the actuator on the switch