American Pinball does a very good job of that.

LTG : )

In general, yes. Animations and art direction? Not even close. It's a crazy mishmash of colors and fonts and jerky animations that just looks bad. Houdini wasn't fabulous, but it had a charm to it and the goodwill that came with how fast it was put together.

No way those animators were professional game animators/graphic artists, or they were drinking buddies blowing smoke. No one who does games for a living would say the criticism of what you've put on the screen is unwarranted. No one.

The most frustrating part is the art package can be fixed by just hiring a GOOD artist with experience in art direction specifically for games. It's not that expensive. But leaving things the way they are and adding some jiggle or sparkle or blur to existing art here or there isn't going to move the needle. Most of the art needs to be completely replaced to give the game a cohesive, professional look. It's nowhere close to that now.

I want AP to succeed, but denying there's a problem with the art and animations you're putting out isn't going to help get you there, especially when Stern is proficient to good, Spooky is catching on, and JJP is blowing production values out of the water. Last-place visuals are a hard sell on location, and that's what Oktoberfest has now.

What are you expecting? You say 'tone deaf' - other people see 'reality'.

Do you really expect them to go back and junk the entire visual platform and all the media assets now?

Do you want them to say "oh shit, we didn't realize that.. my bad"? They knew what they had, what you are talking about is the public RECEPTION to it. What outcome were you really hoping for before labeling them "tonedeaf"?

You may not like his style but it's hard to say that he doesn't have experience with art direction for games:

https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=Jeff+Busch&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick

This x100. If AP believes there is not room for vast improvement in art and animations, it's going to hinder your growth and future possibilities. From what I've seen, the game play is fun, and layout is fun in Oktoberfest. But the art and animations are a huge turn off. The music in Oktoberfest I also have issue with, but that was an artistic choice made by AP so while it keeps me away from buying one, that doesn't mean others won't like the choices. But the art and animations are a quality issue not artistic style or choice issue. (If they are an artistic choice issue, that's even worse)

Yes, it is an interesting resume...

I guess one or two out of six or seven ain't a bad ratio... <ducks>

Yea kinda my thought exactly when looking at that...

A> Grayscale DMD
B> 23 years ago for the last credit
C> None of those are what I would call impressive work, even for the time, and a number were plain bad.
D> LCD high-res in color is a whole different ball game, and there's clearly a falling-short.

23 years is a long time. Look at that terrible Dave Christensen King Pin art for the Kingpin game. He did some amazing things in the past, but he's not up to snuff now. It LOOKS (only evaluating from what's seen in the game) like Oktoberfest art and art direction is in a similar place.

At 7.5 k it's not like these are cheap!! At this price point it does not make sense for AP to aim for " a good pin at a great price" vs a " great pin"

I think the general consensus is that AP would be smart to invest in some art direction and animation talent. if they need to tack $ 500 onto the price to do most buyers will not balk and still feel like it is a deal for a " great" pin.

AS an example of what some art direction could bring to AP is input on what to leave out!! , look at the backglass the foreground is good ( other than it looks like the blondes forearm is cut off by the bottom of the sleeve?) but the upper background is a hot mess! like 6 layers of clutter( random strings of blue flags!! hang glider with german flag colors! mallard ducks! balloons! maypoles! blurry people on roller coasters!! whereas plain blue sky with the maybe the ferris wheel and coaster , a few clouds or fall colored trees would have been so much effective at drawing the eye to the name and foreground .

No hate here Rosh. Nothing but love. For my rare criticism of the animation there are 10 posts from me singing the praises of API. I just want to see you guys be successful.

You say that I gave an unfair criticism but I don’t think Oktoberfest animations are better than Houdini. Perhaps they look better in person (although I did see them at Expo). Sorry but here’s the truth, if professional animators are telling you that the animations are good they are just being kind. Overall the art on the LCD is a hot mess. What’s frustrating is that really great, young animators are plentiful and cheap.

The animations...Yes I do. They can do it iteratively. The reason I said they were "tone deaf" is because there is very little recognition by API that the animations are a problem area. Nothing to make me feel like they recognize the issue or that there is a plan in place to improve. They are not out there making the case for improved animations coming soon. Look, I really want to buy this game. Maybe I'll play it soon and it will blow me away but its hard to get past graphics.

Not sure why Houdini doesn't show up there because he certainly did the art for that game. How does one go about getting things added or edited in an IPDB listing anyway?

I finally got a chance to see and play an Oktoberfest today at the Blue Moon Bar in Madison (Thanks Jim!). I thought the game and the art looked nice in person. It kind of reminded me of a 90's WPC game or a JJP game with all the toys and features. Being part German and living in Wisconsin and being a beer drinker makes me appreciate the original theme as well.

I played 9 games on it over the course of about an hour and a half and think i got to experience most of what the game had to offer. Game times were rather long, even with the center post removed. This is probably needed as the game has a lot of modes to get through. I really enjoyed the layout on this game and just the sheer number of targets and things to shoot for. The orbit shots flowed nicely, the left ramp was fun and satisfying to hit and watch the ball spiral back to your right flipper for a repeatable shot. The side-ramp is difficult to hit without the assistance of mag-nabs. I was able to hit it a few times on the fly, but it's really tough! The mag-nab feature is awesome and fun to use. I also really like that you can sweep all of the "Oktober" targets with a single shot if you hit it just right. The spinner felt a bit "Data East" like and just didn't seem to rip as much as I would like. Overall though I really liked how the game shoots.

The rules/strategy on the game is sort of a mixed bag for me. I like some parts of it but dislike other parts. I really like the strategy behind collecting steins and think this is implemented well. I think the modes in their current form could use some work to make them more interesting and perhaps more valuable. I also think it might be a good idea to not allow modes to be repeated as that would also add strategy as to when it is best to cache in on certain modes. With the way it is now I would carry-in something like "Fud Frenzy" every time before starting a multiball. And use "juggler" to grind away on progress. I don't think i would ever willingly pick a mode like "Stein Race" as it's a surefire way to lose your ball since you have to play with one hand. It just didn't seem like playing some of the modes (in single ball play) were worth it as far as the points payoff goes. My strategy was basically to get a multiball ready, boost the multiball jackpot value by collecting the stein, and then start "Fud Frenzy" before hitting your third lock and then caching in.

The good news on the game is nearly everything i dislike about the game can be fixed in code. The display animations are obviously the weak point and the modes can be tweaked and made non-repeatable to make them better and less exploitable. Overall I had a lot of fun and think the game is a solid 2nd effort by American Pinball!

It's pretty cool that after playing a game it shows you a summary of your progress and statistics such as game time and points per second as well as how many tent modes you started.

IMG_20190403_145025 (resized).jpg

We know he's doing AP stuff now, they were trying to point out that he has experience, but it's a LONG TIME ago and of dubious quality in essentially a different format then, too.

IPDB has been having server problems so lots of stuff is slow to be updated or has fallen through the cracks. This is probably one of them.

Well they are running a business... not a hobby project. They’ve been plenty honest in responding to people and listening to the feedback. But it’s a business... and stuff doesn’t happen for free in dollars or time. So one should consider the feasibility and practicality of something before slamming people for not doing it.

The scoring in modes is fairly balanced, but we will be making a few tweaks. Obviously something like Fud Frenzy stacked with a multiball can be very lucrative, but that is true of most tents modes if they are stacked. Keep in mind that if you 'win' a mode, you can't play it again. If you don't win a mode you can, but it will pick up where you left off, but that also implies you did not score a ton of points in the mode the first time. To score big points you need to get to the win. So, not really as easy to exploit as you may think, unless you intentionally stop just short of victory on modes, just so you can play it again. But there are ways to maximize scoring in one visit, such as extending time in all tent modes via the appropriate stein (and potentially getting that stein more than once), having the stein that boosts that tent, completing TENT lanes while in the mode to add time, having lots of ducks, and of course, increasing the playfield multiplier via the tap lanes (and extending that time via the appropriate stein). Winning a tent on the first visit will ultimately lead to higher scores, in addition, you need to visit (not win) every tent to get to Flipper Meister.

Funny how some folks are interested in being able to play one handed the whole game and some don't want to play it at all.

Just my opinion: LCD screens don’t have to be filled with animations. There’s nothing wrong with simple presentations of useful information.

Still needs to look good and present well, but I’d rather see a game with solid information that looks nice than a lot of animation that doesn’t hit the mark.

I think people would rather wish for more than dislike what’s there, if that makes sense.

Curious how people feel about that.

I totally agree. Better art and more cohesive art direction is much preferred to more animation. Looking good is step one. Crawl before walking.

Oooh, did you do this? It's really hard but hella satisfying. I've legitimately done it only once, and was thoroughly surprised as the whole bank of lights promptly lit up.

Can you provide some details of which modes you thought weren't interesting? We tried really hard to have modes that would make use of every feature on the playfield, and also incorporate subtle features to offer surprises and strategies for each of them. A couple examples: Füd Frenzy looks like a typical switch frenzy. But the switch value increases by each distinct switch you hit. You can sit there and just rip the spinner a lot, that's some good switch action... but it'll be worth a lot more if you hit a wide variety of other switches first. Bumper Cars looks like a "super pops" sort of mode, and it is somewhat... but its value increases by hitting the top slingshot. Best way to do that? Shoot that slingshot from the upper flipper. How many games reward you for shooting a slingshot with a flipper? Rotor seems like a typical "shoot the roving shot" mode, but point values multiply with the number of distinct shots you make... etc etc etc... there are a lot of details that may not be immediately obvious, but once you know what's going on, you can take advantage of them to maximize your results.

And all that is before considering the effect of steins on modes. Each stein multiplies the scoring of a specific tent mode, and also has some global power-up effect. The steins with the most useful global power-ups probably do not boost the tents that you would most like to boost. Choose wisely.

You can only replay tent modes if you haven't won them. And you really really want to win tent modes. Winning tent modes awards progressively more ducks (which increase the value of all subsequent tent modes) and gives Tent Win end-of-ball bonus, which is multiplied by regular bonus X AND multiplied by the number of tents won in that ball. Several million just in bonus is quite possible if you're rocking the tent modes. Don't tilt. (Oh, you're on your final tilt warning? Might be a good time to collect the "more tilt warnings" stein...)

There are about 6 tent modes that are particularly good candidates to carry into a multiball. Füd Frenzy seems obvious, and it's certainly a good option... but then again, my wife scored 2.5M in Ring Toss alone by carrying it into a multiball. Personally, I like Duck Hunt. Again, this is significantly impacted by what steins you've chosen.

I'm still obsessively tweaking overall scoring balance, so some things will change over time, but I'm reasonably happy with the scoring balance even now. None of the tent modes is guaranteed monster points... but all of them have the potential for big points. And yes, if you successfully stack the right steins + appropriate tent mode + Food Stand + multiball + playfield X, your score will probably blow up. Congrats on successfully executing a good strategy.

Enjoy!

Funny thing about stein race is that I was actively seeking it out for the first couple games, but I never lost a ball because of it. I found using both flippers at the same time helped a lot with that, but it also made the right orbit hard as hell to hit since that top flipper would be up. Much different than straight jacket, which is nice. I like that they have embraced weird flipping modes.

My strategy was to collect as many of the spinner steins as possible to see if I could rip a ton of points off the spinner. That was not the case. I felt like the ball was getting stopped by the magnet more often than I was ripping the spinner. Id go to shoot it and the magnet would grab the ball. Pretty sure I wasnt activating the mag grab....unless its automatic there...which it seemed it was.

How's production coming along? Are we getting a unit to Georgia by April 25th for Beer festival in Macon???

I only did the Oktober sweep once in my 9 games, but it was extremely cool and satisfying to see it happen! I do really like the narrower targets and it's fun being able to pick off numerous standups on a single shot.-even when you don't sweep them all.

Thanks for the explanation. Now that you describe more of the details it makes it more apparent that there is more to do within the modes. I can see how there can be 5-6 different modes that can be lucrative to carry into a multiball. I suppose any of the target modes or Bumper Cars would be good for this. I was having good success with Fud Frenzy but there may possibly be even more lucrative modes to stack. I think where I wasn't finding them interesting was just playing them on their own without and kind of booster or multiball involved. Something like Bumper Cars just didn't seem worth it to play on it's own. I wasn't getting a ton of pop action on the game and often the right orbit is stopped by the magnet. Same goes for the Spinner mode. I do like the rules on that one and how the other orbit can accelerate the spinner value, but it just seemed like the spinner wasn't juicy enough to score a lot of points.-and the magnet on right orbit would often impede its progress. If someone could mod the spinner to rotate better I think it would be a fun mode. I only played the Stein Race mode once and had a pretty quick drain because my brain didn't pickup how to play that way quick enough. Maybe it would be better if it gave you an option to play it with standard flipper buttons but for 1/2 points? I'm not a huge fan of video modes in general and while I don't think the mode is bad I didn't particularly enjoy it. It was also hard to tell how full the beer mugs were on the display. -maybe this could be zoomed in the mugs a bit more?

That helps to know what the ducks do and that sounds like a great idea. I think my problem was that I wasn't quite playing the modes well enough to beat them my first time. I think I played the Looper mode (left ramp) like 4-5 times and everytime I'd get it down to one shot left and the mode would time out.-and it didn't seem like I as getting many points for each subsequent shot. I do like that you made the modes non-repeatable if you beat them.-I didn't know this was the case.

I'll have to give Duck Hunt and Ring Toss a try next time I play to see how well they stack with multiball. I'm only beginning to figure out the strategy in this game.

It became apparent within a few games of playing that this is a game you won't score well with if you don't have a strategy and understand what you are doing with Steins and the Food stand (I'm still not completely sure how the Food stand factors in). One of my first games was a 22 minute game and I ground that out for less than 900K points, because I didn't have a strategy and was just trying out modes and seeing how the game played. My next game I implemented some strategy and stacked Fud Frenzy with a multiball and scored a million plus points on just one multiball alone. I can see how this game would have a lot of value just because there is a lot of strategy involved.

Is there a rule-sheet or guide on the game that I can read up on? Now that I've played it I think everything would make more sense. I'm excited to give it another go and see how I do!

I'll have to give the Stein Race mode another try. I only tried it once and I think my brain just decided not to work in processing how to operate the buttons and I drained quickly

I ran into the same thing on the spinner mode. The auto mag-nab would impede the spinner and even if you do get a clean spinner shot it didn't seem that juicy. A juicier spinner and disabling that mag nab during that mode would make that mode a lot of fun to play!

thanks for the explanation. I really need to focus more on strategy and actually completing modes. The game could be more balanced than what I originally gave it credit for. Will need to play more and really dive into the strategy!

I'll need to practice up on the one handed mode. I just know that when you're paying $1 a game on location you tend to shy away from the modes where you can drain quickly. In a home environment this would be more fun to practice and try to master. It kind of felt like a kick in the nuts the single time that I did play it...

Yes, I was the one making the point that he does indeed have experience specifically in pinball - not exactly a top 10 list by any objective means though the era most of his work was in wasn't particularly great in general IMO. I LOVE the art package in Houdini, even the animations seem to fit well and the moving gears steam-punk scoring display is superb. I'm not an artist by any means so if there are "problems" with it I'm blissfully ignorant of them. I think OKT is visually fine from a printed art standpoint but do agree some of the animations could be much better, I don't think that would ever stop me from dumping money in one or seriously consider it for my collection though. Would be interesting to see a poll of how many pinheads notice these things versus those that don't, specifically the relatively minor artwork "issues" the same few seem to find in every game.

Prepopulate my vote as in the camp that cares way more about the rules and gameplay compared to the animations on the LCD. Just give me good info on the screen, and I’m a pig in shit.

Guessing AP already has a lot of sunk cost into this LCD and don't want to redo it.

At the very least, for next time, get somebody at AP who can set a style or tell you something sucks early on?

Sometimes progress is more important than substance. The artwork, imo, was the last thing they focused on prior to Expo. And from playing it there, to playing it at TPF, it was pretty obvious, the table was so close to being presentable, that they did present it at Expo, with Twisted Sister our favorite bar maid contortionist, along with Oafish Otto, who has a grin so large you can see his rear molars, not to mention Mr. P.C. Monkey the Magician and his disapearing hand. They needed to get it out to show they can compete, they can develope, that they are significant players in the arena. Did they stumble? most would say they didn’t leave the blocks clean, and have been limping ever since. I think they wanted to capitalize on JJPOTC’s mech misteps and get 2 alternate titles, and thus alternate buyer choices to the market to capitalize.

Then CGC got their MBrLE in line for Expo, JJP got Eric to stand and play games with us players and explain his POTC creation, and everyone went and bought a MBrLE, or a AFMr or a MMr, or a JJPOTC, or DP, or BM66Prm, or IMDN, or any number of other Stern titles to choose from, and Mr. Poor Castrated Monkey was left holding his own hand and crying while Pinside rips the Artwork, the LCD, and the animations, does a double take at JJP WOZYBR’s price, thinks about waiting for WW, TS, GNR, thinks hard about a Munsters Premium, and plops it’s money down on BKSoR LE and waits.

I think in any other timeframe than this one, Oktoberfest would have been a great machine, could have been (or could still be, with some changes) a big seller, and would have cemented AP as a player in the game. Right now, they have something, but people are confused as to what that “something” is. They are acting like Gottlieb if you ask me sincerely, kind of a runner up, or always the third wheel when talking the big three.

Sadly I agree with a lot of this.
The market seems saturated but its still growing.
I like API for the simple reason that they are doing " thinking out of the box" designs.

Standard pinball fan layouts with increasingly complex code are the rule these days but, new engaging ideas are few and far between.

I think if API sticks to its guns and produces amazing alternative games and styles, takes some risks and doesnt cave or change course, they will he here for the duration.

I liked the Gott reference

ENFORCE a style. Setting is the easy part.

Houdini has a charm to it and I gave the clunky screen art and bare-bones art direction a pass. The art package on the cabinet and playfield was really nice.

Oktoberfest cabinet package is all right. The art on screen is where it's off the rails. Too many ideas clashing and the fonts, colors, and animations are all over the place. You can't take a video of a crowd scene and add a filter to "cartoon-ize" it and have anything worth watching. It's ridiculous. More than anything it needed strict art direction rules and an experienced and talented artist to enforce them. It will be an ongoing problem if AP doesn't address it, and I hope they do because I want to see them succeed.

I cant wait for this machine. The wife and I are planning on going to Germany for the fest in 2020. Maybe i'll get some play in on this machine before we go out there.

We are looking at improving this behavior to make it smarter about when not to grab.

Yeah, I think it's fair to say that like with most games of the past, oh, 25 years, casual players should be able to do just fine shooting the flashing shots and having cool stuff happen, but there are plenty of opportunities here for more knowledgable players to come up with their own approaches to blowing up the game.

Food Stand features primarily increase multiball values. Food Stand awards give calories, calories increase the scoring in Beer Barrel and Corkscrew MB's. (Versus ducks, which do nothing for multiball scoring, but increase all tent scoring.)

Nope... you can be the first to start a rule sheet for it!

It's the definition of 'tone deaf' when you downplay the obvious issue with animations. Maybe their impressed with flip book animation? Seriously, it's such an obvious problem that I'm not sure who these other animators are who thought otherwise but whatever they're working on, someone help them too.

Thats me!
also impressed with pop-up cards and Rotoscopes...

I grew up with classic Bugs Bunny and Road Runner animation which I love ! Donkey Kong and Pacman came along. long after that was South Park (did anybody like that?) Animation is what it is and only more recently gotten really interesting. But I don't consider it at at all important in pinball. It is pinball which happens on the playfield. I don't watch the graphics unless someone else is playing to feed my friends the text cues. I consider callout cues and flashing lights on the playfield much more important. I have played several games on this machine and am more focused on how it plays and how I should approach it.

The zombee walking guys who move sidewise are dorky, maybe they could be people standing around eating brats. On the adult program they could be drinking beer and getting topless. But again I am not watching that and focused on the ball(s).

I copied whatever info I could scab off of this thread most is from Rosh. Edited and pasted below: looks like formatting was lost
I did this for Houdini too.

OKTOBERFEST-The 14 tent modes are each very different a far as what shots are needed (mode shots have inserts lit as Blue). It was a goal to be sure we leveraged all the different parts of the playfield in the modes. There is quite a variety . . .
Ring Toss is about hitting the targets on the Oktober and fest target banks, alternating one side from the other. Hitting X-in-a-row lit targets gives progressively higher scores. If you're skilled (or lucky) enough to sweep the entire lit OKTOBER bank in one shot (7-in-a-row), the points will be raining down. Completing either the OKTOBER or FEST bank gives a bonus, and completing both banks gives mongo bonus.
Stein Race, which is one handed play, starts with several shots lit, but if you shoot a shot already made (shows red), then you spill beer and the point value reduces.
Chugging -- a sequence of shots, first a two shots sequence to beat Inga, then a three shot sequence to beat Otto. And then a more difficult sequence in the re-match.
Looper, is about shooting the left ramp that feeds the coaster Preferably in sequential combos, which become more and more valuable. It's very satisfying (and valuable) to hit a 5 or 6 or 7 way combo on the Roller Coaster ramp.
Juggler is an add-a-ball, starts with two balls, then a sequence of shots to complete that adds another and then another series to add one more
Target Shooting is shooting a shifting set of lights on the PROST target bank in the middle of the playfield.
Duck Hunting hitting the four ducks targets around the playfield, can't hit the same one twice in a row
Rockin Express -- spinner scores, shoot lit orbit to increase value
Rotor -- shots lit one at time, moving left to right and then back again
Füd Frenzy -- Yes, it's a switch frenzy... but you increase the frenzy value for every *distinct* switch you hit on the playfield. Think you'll just rip the spinner like in many frenzies? That's OK, but you'd be much better off shooting a bunch of OKTOBER, FEST, or PROST targets, *then* rip the spinner. And as long as you're at it, if you shoot the spinner via the right orbit shot, try using the top lanes MagNab to catch the ball up there, and further increase the frenzy value on that TAP lane and then the pop bumpers.
Bumper Cars -- shoot pops and slings
Sky slide -- knock down drop target, shoot the vuk before it times out and target comes back up
Tap-it -- Video mode
All modes have a goal to meet to get the 'win' (tent on playfield will then show up as Green), if you don't win, you can play the mode again (shows as yellow) and it will resume where you left off. A 'beer colored' tent on the playfield means you have the stein that boosts it, but have not yet played it. The Tent you are currently in shows Blue. Play all 13 to get to the 14 tent, Flipper Meister (available soon)
And of course, each tent's scoring is multiplied if you have the stein associated with that tent.... and you can stack several of those steins if you really want to try blowing out the scoring for a tent.
But I'll share one more, you want be to sure to being using lane change for TENT letters while in a mode, you will figure out why when you play.
Also... DUCKS!

Many thanks! This is great.

I like it for many reasons and bought it. Hope to get it next week.

Love the layout and the fun factor.

I get the criticism of the perfectionists but that doesn't matter to me.

Ice, don’t worry, the graphics should be able to be improved with code updates, so you get to play it now, and hope for better graphics and animations later, and sell it if the code hasn't dropped in 27 months...

But seriously, if the theme speaks to people, graphics can be improved with updates, so why not go ahead and get it if it’s YOU. It shoots better than Houdini, I was having a fun ball and blowing it up some on the one at Zach’s Flip-n-Out booth at TPF Sunday, but had to dash before my game ended to catch my plane.

You'll love it! the theme is fun and the gameplay is great. Honestly the display graphics doesn't really matter that much. A lot of my favorite pins do not have any graphics at all. It's what's under the playfield glass that matters, and that's a fun and unique!

But Jeff wasn't responsible for the animations in Houdini, and I assume Oktoberfest as well.

I've been out of art school for two decades now, don't work in the illustration field I majored in, yet I still wouldn't find this level of LCD font usage and "animation" acceptable in a portfolio, much less an art based package for a hobby based interest in the thousands of dollars. This aspect, and this alone, to me, separates American Pinball from being on a toe to toe level with JJP.

To a point, art is subjective. To a point. But this is just a plain poor usage of odd color complementary usage and font size and choice, awkward and stilted poorly visualized animated figures, and most of all that dog prepping nervously to go down the slides, looks more like an anxious goat than a dashshund.

I adore API's build quality, code work, table layout , sound design, table and cab art, but the LCD animation and balance is beyond poor, and I'm more sad about that than irked.

Josh, I really respect your passion for your work, your dedication to API and it's vision, and I've watched and listened to many interviews you've done, and appreciated your attitude and work on both Houdini and Oktoberfest, but people feeling contrary to the animation and font use in these two games, isn't based in vitriol or hate mongering. It's based on us wanting to see API succeed, and wanting to buy a better, more polished, and overall "best of the industry" level product from your company. People vocalizing in thoughtful ways, how API could improve one specific aspect in their presentation, is entirely different than deconstructing and being overly harsh on every single aspect of your game designs. This idea of animation quality and font usage has been echoed by multiple users across two different products. It hasn't been done in a way that negates the entirety of your games, rather specific aspects we're, to be honest, begging to be adjusted so we could hail API as a viable competitor to both JJP and Stern.

To me, those attitudes don't speak of animosity, rather goodwill and ideally, a desire to WANT to spend more towards your creations, not less.

Is it obvious to the player, or to the audience? At the end of the day, they need to build games and grow and it appears they seem to be contenders with 2 fun games within a budget. I havent played Octoberfest though.

Id rather the last $5 go into the game play, than what game watchers are seeing.

No, tone deaf is making choices or doing something WITHOUT AWARENESS. Downplaying or ignoring would be stubborn or dismissive.

They knew what they had.. they aren't blind to it. They've acknowledged the comments. They aren't blind to or obvious to any of it.

The question is if its worth spending on changing. Clearly their decision was 'no' and they've stuck with the same format they've had since the game's first public reveal... nearly SIX MONTHS ago.

Maybe it's time for people to catch on.. it's not radically changing!

I definitely agree with this attitude, but as much as people seem to take issue with Dialed In for it's theme not appealing to them, there are specific aspects to Oktoberfest that aren't appealing, that could more easily be corrected than DI.

I'm still anxious to play, but I'm less anxious to buy.

I'd say not being blind to it isn't accurate, Josh is vocalizing it's defense via the argument animators have contacted him, and stated it's not an issue for them. Not being blind would be acknowledging there are issues, wanting to correct them down the road, and making sure the next LCD animation package is of a much higher quality.

I'd say it's definitely not changing, yes, and as a result there are definitely also some select people not buying for home use. How many at this point, we have no idea. I hope to play it soon, and have a better idea personally how I feel about it overall.

The Oktoberfest game team is here listening. Josh and I are regularly engaged in this thread, we're not running away. As I've said before, people shouldn't expect the entire animation package to be scrapped and redone. That's not realistic. But if there are reasonable things we can do to improve the presentation, tell us exactly what those are, and we'll see what we can do.

Several critics here have mentioned fonts. There is one font that is primarily used throughout the game, a Germanic typeface. Do you find that hard to read? If we hear a lot of that, we might be able to select another font that preserves the general style but is easier to read. Or do you have a problem with the color contrast of the text against certain backgrounds? That's something we can work with. Back around Expo, someone here posted a screenshot of a tent total screen, and said that they had a hard time reading it because of the contrast of the text against the background. That was very specific and constructive feedback, we agreed, and an improvement was checked into the code base minutes later. No problem. So go ahead, if you have access to the game, send a photo and tell us exactly what you'd like to see changed. Heck, if you don't have access to a game, watch one of the streams and send a link and a timecode with your explanation. Even feedback that can't be incorporated into Oktoberfest can help advise the team for future games.

Even something like "the dachshund walks like an anxious goat!"... well, OK, that just made me laugh, and frankly I personally have no idea what that means, but then I'm neither an animator nor an anatomist. But at least it's something specific, and thus more helpful than "the LCD sucks, booooo!"

Thanks!

Disagree. I owned a JJP game with a 26 inch display and beautiful looking animations and video... that the player usually doesn’t see because they are looking at the ball. The content on that huge screen was very busy. Quadrants of info, serif fonts, everything in motion, spread across a 26 inch screen. Basically, in my opinion, the eye candy on their screen failed because it was too busy and not well coordinated with stop and go on the playfield. Very frustrating. Their games have a long time-to-market and high price. In contrast, I thought Houdini was the best use of an LCD screen in a pinball game since Lebowski. Fun, colorful animations, large, crisp fonts, easy to parse information. Loved the black on white non serif fonts used as scoring digits. It looked really sharp. I wouldn’t mind at all if some display content in Oktoberfest adopted the best attributes of Houdini’s display content.

Shout out to Gilroy! Mmmm, garlic...

And Circus Trees!