Can you please please please install Cliffy's on scoop holes in advance!

Give the option to the buyer! Id just remove it. Haha

You don't dig Cliffys?

I'm doing this install currently.... Wish all companies put them in.

Change gameplay too much. Especially after they get beat up. Love their updated lane guides for older games though. Those are magic.

I just Mylar up on scoops and that’s enough protection for me.

Really looking forward to playing this one at TPF. Keep up the great work API!

You would hate playing at my house then, I'm All about protection. PLAYFIELD protectors, cliffies, lexan washers everywhere, double metal washers on almost all plastics anything to save plastics and the playfields especially these newer titles. I didn't let one ball roll over my NIB Star Trek till I did everything above.

If it plays good, that’s all I care about. So if you figured out how to put all that on there and it still plays great, that’s awesome.

But more often than not when I Cliffy is on a scoop or saucer on a well played game, they get chewed up and reject like crazy. No fun.

Can't wait to lay my hands on this, but where's the Cliffy? Did Houdini's scoop damage over time prove nothing to you?

I would hope at the VERY LEAST there was a factory OPTION to have one pre-installed (maybe in an LE package with art blades, knocker, invisiglass, shaker, and Cliffy protection on the scoop and shooter lane).

If you tighten them too hard at the points they attach to the playfield, the thin metal will torque and can lift slightly, causing what you describe. I've installed a ton and never had cliffies cause rejects EXCEPT on KISS' scoop, and that was primarily because the hole was too small from the factory.

I'd love the option to have this installed at factories. Doing the shooter lane the other night, and the eject, was pretty challenging for a first time owner. Not to mention nerve wracking.

Pretty sure they'd sell a bunch of LE bundles with all the stuff listed pre-installed.

Just got a Houdini last night ! Heard pros n cons about it but I really like the game. Yes the shots are tight and tough but that’s what makes it a good game for a player. Looking forward to Oktoberfest!
I think the display, build quality, is spot on! I like it better than JJP and the remakes and I own those . All the best
To American Pinball love your design

03FF79A2-195E-4804-9C78-7056FE4E1961 (resized).jpeg

Stern and JJP are now installing them from the factory.
I imagine all others will follow this practice.

Even GCG put a Kerry Stair/Mantis protector on the AFM scoop.

Its not only cheap insurance but good business practice.

JJP learned a lot from WOZ. Early versions didnt have any mylar at all applied to the pops and drops.
Tons of complaints about early burn thru. They fixed it by sending out free mylars to everyone who wanted them.

So, yeah if you have a scoop these days it should have some kind of protection.

Of all my games it gets the most plays.
Not only will it make you better player, Its tons of fun!

Nope, there is exactly ONE pin that has cliffies from the factory.

Stern just straight up ripped off the idea from Cliff and did it worse.

JJP used actual cliffies on Dialed In after trying and failing a number of times to get a solution of their own design that worked, wasting months and god knows how many cracked playfield clearcoats in the interim. Big credit to Jack for finally making the decision to put cliffies on the Dialed Ins at the factory and stopping the madness. Womp Womp for reverting on jjPotC.

I know that people use metal hole protection interchangably with "Cliffy" but it does him a disservice when almost all of them just are ripping him off and doing a worse version.

I've said it before but Cliff has a TON of engineering experience and decades of real-world hole protection experience. If any of the manufacturers wanted to make hole designs that were more wear resistant and protector-friendly, they would really benefit from asking for his help at the design stage. He's open to collaborate and would like to see better hole designs from the factory - I've asked him. I see the beveled holes on AP machines and shake my head. The bevel will not help the wear situation and it makes it much harder to make a good protector. Houdini proved that, but they're doing it again (apparently) on Oktoberfest.

I see.

It does seem odd that almost everyone who has a couple games knows about cliffy's protectors or mantis protectors, and tries to get something going for protection, yet factories balk as this needed solution.

Although a couple layers of mylar is better than nothing I guess.

Mylar is helpful for rolling protection, but in an area like a scoop where the ball can hit the top and slam down on the playfield on eject (see: Houdini) mylar will not stop the clear from cracking, it'll just keep it all in one piece. That's why the Mantis-style one on Oktoberfest scoop paired with the beveled hole is a bad solution.

This made me lol.

Well, now that you point out the potential alternate reading...I'm not sure he has universal hole protection experience, but he definitely can tell you a thing or two about playfield hole design.

I don’t doubt that. I just happened to read that as something I would appreciate being printed on my business card.

Will Oktoberfest be at the Texas Pinball Festival??

I would be shocked if it wasn't.

That's how I feel...but I have seen no mention of it...anywhere.

This thread - post 1746 from Rosh :

"We will certainly bring a few production Oktoberfest machines to TPF, and be sure to attend our seminar to learn more about the changes we have made and about the rules. "

Be sure and hit their seminar. If you see them there, be sure and say hi !

LTG : )

Cool. Thank you!!

Is there any chance a new JJP pin will be there too??

Supposedly they'll show the new Yellow Brick Road version of WoZ, but no Wonka.

No idea. I'm the first to go and the last to know.

LTG : )

Wrong thread, this is American Pinball.

It is an American Pinball thread. And I apologize for intruding on it.

Since I directed him to the Octoberfests will be at TPF and which post Rosh put it on, he may have been directing his question to me.

Sorry about that.

LTG : )

Yes.

Looking forward to seeing and playing Oktoberfest and, maybe ordering one. And, looking forward to meeting you too Lloyd and personally telling you thanks for all of your sage guidance.

LTG is never intrusive! I was watching your panel from Chicago this past fall with my friend the other night. Your insights and carefree attitudes are a sight to behold. That video to rosh had me cracking up too!

No slight intended, we're all casual friends here, but....

It's interesting how some threads evolve. or devolve.

Glad you liked it. I liked the killroy was here effect, which was accidental.

Though Josh ( Rosh ) hasn't asked for any more videos here on Pinside explaining why anyone should be a Houdini software beta tester.

After the twilight zone incident on RGP many years ago, I hope I didn't get him again.

LTG : )

From American Pinball on Facebook.

First Octoberfests on the line. Playfields nearly completed.

Looks like the new building.

Things are getting real. Can't wait until Texas Pinball Festival or people getting their games.

LTG : )

octoberfestfirstonline (resized).jpg

I just saw this on facebook too!!!!

So what's the Twilight Zone incident about..?

Rosh ( Josh ) posted on Rec Games Pinball many, many, years ago. Asking for tear down pictures of Twilight Zone. Since TZ went through some changes during it's time on the assembly line, I posted that it would be better if he took his own pictures. Which killed the thread as no one posted after that.

Rosh, unbeknownst to me. Had acquired a TZ that was disassembled and had no idea where things went.

I emailed him privately, and apologized and offered pictures of mine if it would help.

Rosh started a new thread. Requesting pictures and I stayed out of it. He got pictures. Assembled his TZ. And lived happily ever after. Or so I thought.

I ran into him at MGC last year. And he made a point of thanking me for killing his thread. A thread I don't think I would have remembered. And I apologized again and explained why I had made the post.

Unfortunately, remember Nirmal's picture touching Rosh's keyboard with the do not touch sign on it ? Well, as near as I can tell. Rosh has hit men out looking for two people now.

So if I should disappear. I want people to know I hold no grudge against Rosh or his TZ. Nirmal, and the little guy between his lederhosen, is on his own.

LTG : )

Loyd, You have developed much better online composure since

Yikes. Yeah, forum politics and decorum can often be a weird thing for sure. I wonder why no one posted after you had? Seems like you guys have ironed things out since, which is good! I definitely do remember the keyboard note, haha!

Well I hope all of you can enjoy some beers and Oktoberfest at TPF in a few weeks together!

I was one of the most frequent posters with help on RGP back then. So after I posted, many times people thought that was it and moved on. The LTG : ) had spoken.

Not really. I still manage to put my foot in my keyboard now and then.

LTG : )

Yeah Lloyd was a mean snarky guy. Never mind that was yesterday.

Listen cupcake. I've been called a lot of things. But snarky was never one of them.

LTG : )

lol I Meant ornery. Sorry.

In many ways back on RGP, LTG was the authority and no one would want to be on his bad side, given his wealth of knowledge. So when he said 'take your own', no one was going to go against him and send me photos. I reached out to him on it, and explained the game had clearly not be put back together correctly the last time, so I wanted to get it right. It was also only my second tear down and re-build (was getting the playfield coated). He commented, that he had not thought about that (and obviously not something I had put in my original post). But like he said, I got photos, and got that TZ built back up and running and still have it my collection today. I reminded Lloyd of this a year or so ago, I was pretty sure it was not something he would have remembered, but for me it was one of my first 'brushes with greatness' in the world of pinball.

Well that certainly is a very nice way of putting that.

To get this thread back on track. I saw on Facebook that Nirmal will be at Texas Pinball Festival. No word on if he'll have his little friend hanging around.

Go to the American Pinball seminar, see the Houdini and production Octoberfests there too. And visit with the American Pinball people. You'll be glad you did.

LTG : )

Cant wait for second reveal and design improvements!

Are you talking the monkey?

Great news! I talked my wife into a Texas March vacation! Cuba fell through so this is second best.

Not quite. A short guy with beard and mustache and lederhosen right in front of him. About half his height.

LTG : )