If you're looking for naming suggestions for that 180 ramp, you could call it "The Immelmann" after the half loop/turn used in roller coasters and plane maneuvers.

Brilliant. I love this out of the box thinking.

Excellent! Named after German WWI ace Max Immelmann.

Yup! I thought it would tie in with the theme.

The ladies on the backglass would be good alternative to Heidi in the middle. (the brunette also)

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I was a disbeliever in this title but. You know what it has me rethinking my hard line against it.

I think this game has much more merit and if I had a BeerGarten it would be there.

I hope to see it on location somewhere.

Good example of the mis-match of styles on this game! I like the more realistic girls or style from the Bierhaus slot machine version of Heidi.

Excellent!
Moving title from resale market watch to preorder watch. Looking forward to what you guys come up with.

If artwork can change in an add on package, I also hope they could give us the opportunity to make our own music mix, either with songs prerecorded and loaded in the game that you can select through the settings menu (in particular for some modes that could use metal music) or from outside by ourselves.

I think Heidi needs to change.
I have not seen anyone in this thread who likes her aperance/pose.
I think the general art package is good and getting a more pleasant Heidi will help immensely.

The only other thing i dont love is the hands holding steins accross the apron.

They'd have to hire a new artist. They didn't hire someone who has strong character design skills like John Youssi or Kevin O'Connor. They hired a Photoshop cobbler.

No problem...that could help about me if I get the certainty it is possible.
When do you plan to come into production?

Are there ways for a single ball to use the corkscrew ramp or is it for multiball use only?

One of the tent features, Looper, is solely about shooting the corkscrew ramp, preferably in repeated combos.

Best wishes and every success at that !

LTG : )

So the VUK is the Sky Slide, what's the 180 ramp supposed to be? Thought it might be used for the Looper tent, but I guess not. Thanks for all the info/updates!

Guys, you can all just mod your games and add all the extra cleavage you want. Chill out. Your Oktoberfest XXX Edition will be fine between your Stern Playboy and WNBJM.

Is this much different than other companies offering different models with different art? So much for the one model for all philosophy.

Add-on? Why not just an option at no extra charge? Out-Sterning Stern here? You get to pay for the mediocre art, then pay again for a different art package.

Put me down for I'd -never- pay extra to improve a mediocre art package on a premium-priced machine. But I'm sure a lot of people will.

"We blew it, but we're not going to pay for it, you will." Should really pull a JJP here and do a take-2.

Instead of thinking 'good' vs 'bad'...

Consider

"Adult" vs "Family"

And consider if your bashing tone is still appropriate.

For me personally (sounds like you have a different opinion) I like the model API is taking. I wish other manufacturers would let us accessorize the art and such to fit our needs instead of forcing us to by an LE or the like. Being forced to buy ALL of the Se/LE options because of one feature becomes costly to the consumer. Letting me upgrade to my taste seems like a smart company thinking outside the cabinet so to speak.

So you like this model? You prefer an extra-charge add-on vs price-indifferent option?

People like to try to frame this as an Adult/Family either/or, but as others have already argued, I agree it's not that.

One thing is clear, it's not popular, and they've admitted as much with this new "add-on" artwork that they just came up with.

Also curious if you think a monkey playing ass-grab is family friendly?

How much more would you be willing to pay for custom work, say based from an LE model ?

Can’t say for this title as I have no complaints about what they created. For say Batman 66 (sle) or SWLE I would pay 2-300 for the art package ala-cart. Just don’t want to buy the 15k game to get the art I prefer. To me (meaning my opinion) I would prefer individual option based options over the current (Stern, JJP,etc) all in one take it or leave it model. I’ll take a SW premium with Pro graphics and LE armor hold the topper please. Just seems like a better market for buyers and OEM for future growth and individual tastes.

I like this API model too. Do I wish it were an either/or sidegrade rather than paying for another package? Sure, but I also appreciate getting games out the gate quickly so I can get behind the flippers rather than waiting for months or years. There’s no pleasing EVERYONE with a given art package or game layout, but allowing people to buy different personalization is one thing I like about pinball..which is why I buy mods for my games
I think companies do their best to please the majority if there’s something that most people don’t like, but it’s got to be difficult weeding through actual dislikes, and the dislikes just for the sake of being contradictarian.
All in all, I think api’s pricepoint (thus far) has been a very good value, and like i’ve said before, I trust their direction.

I prefer an extra charge add-on then nothing else to what I don’t like.
I think you can’t imagine the chance we have to get some manufacturer teams here on pinside, to get the availability to exchange our points of you with them, to make them change/enhance some part of the game that we don’t like.
You don’t like the game, that is ok, we get it. It happens to me too and usually drains the thread.
This proximity with the teams of designers is important for me and determining in the bottom line to buy.

I think you are blurring conversations... because if you follow what barry replied to, and the posts after.. that's not what you've said.

Again, you're inserting your own conclusions as if they were supported by the cites. They are not. Stop leaping.

Seems people have quickly forgotten JJP's 'radcal' program

PLEASE use better material for the art blades, more like Stern uses. Something vinyl-like, not the paper-like media for Houdini's that is extremely fragile.

The side art on Oktoberfest is a different material

That is worthy of a celebration! The Houdini paper art blades were terrible.

You can make the cab sides look A-OK just remove those two characters. Oh and the wheel thing in the sky on the backbox sides? Make sure it isn't touching the edge of the frame.

OH I HATE THAT

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Make that fruition bloom!
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Whoa, Nellie!

Nobody knows what AP will be doing with alternate art because they are just deciding. So all suggestions are welcome.

I would like to see 110% of the art redone - including playfield, backglass, cabinet and plastics, as well as art blades (extra 10%). But do it in a single and cohesive style and address the noted visual flaws. AP can then ask people to vote on which complete art package they prefer/would buy. Maybe it is 50% or maybe it is 90% and they decide to go with revised plan. This is what happened at Spooky on AMH. Existing package was limiting sales and Spooky redid cabinet and backglass art and offered it as an option. You could pick either. I believe they asked people which they preferred and it was probably 90% for the new package. Since this happened right at start of production, Spooky was able to switch over and made 95% of AMH with new art design. There are a few AMH pinball machines around with original design (between 3 to 12 and with real back glass of original design.... bluuuuuhhh). Price were kept the same. I wish Spooky had also been willing/able to refine the playfield art some, but they stuck with the original art.

If done right, the revised art package on OF should be sufficient for most buyers, and I can see no reason you would need to offer an adult version option. Do people want to see Oktoberfest held at a nudist colony from up close? I don’t, but if art direction is done to the same standards as a PG-13 movie ratings, this allows almost anything short of full frontal nudity or too much gore. Have the new artwork package be a bit more edgy, and then make it the one and only version of artwork offered. My toes are crossed for all the hot cartoon women to have big bouncy breasts and for all the studly men to have a sausage in their pants.

The are is what keeps me from purchasing.
I have the money ready, slot nr1 with one of the distros, but am waiting on a new comprehensive art package including the playfield

For all those disagreeing with me..... are YOU buying?
Didn't think so....

It's obvious my response was about the "add-on" philosophy: -you- tried to reframe the discussion to be about adult/family. Hey, play with your straw man if you like, but you can do so alone.

If anyone is reaching, it's you. I'm sure the "add-on" artwork was in the plan the whole time, it's got nothing to do with the reactions on here. You make your conclusions, and I'll make mine, and we can just disagree.

Are you saying it will just be the cabinet art that evolves, or could it include the playfield art, as well?

As a Houdini owner, I really want to support API on this one, also, but would prefer to see both better cabinet art and playfield art.

I never said I don't like the game. In fact, I wouldn't have a strong opinion on aspects of the game if I weren't interested in it.

It's great to have input and to hear that this is a prototype that isn't yet final, so there's still hope. I hope my opinions were worth 2c too.

I do think they could have made a more informed decision in the first place with some basic market research. It does sound like there were conflicting internal opinions but one was the most weighty.

And, I'll be clear on where I stand. I prefer one great art package. I don't have a problem with two art packages, -unless- one costs more than the other. If that's the case, AP has lost me as a potential customer.

The good thing about revising artwork over the next six weeks is that it is not holding anything up, as in other stuff is going on too ...

Molded toys to be revisited
Voice scripts to be rewritten
Voice talent to be recorded for real and with artistic direction
Music tracks to be added for real
Rules to be completed and polished
Video and Animations to be redone for real

Hoping to wake up early to late Dec and find AP has created a true Oktoberfest, one that I can buy. Rosh and Ferret don’t burn out and kill yourselves. Take care of your health and family whenever you are not racing ahead to complete this game. The game will take whatever time it takes to get right. Don’t forgo healthy eating or neglect exercise on account of us. There is time for all.

We have seen the lunchroom at Stern factory from walkthrough videos and have probably stared in awe at the rows of stacked microwaves. I’ll bet the lunchroom at American Pinball world headquarters has German beer on tap and plenty of empty steins (14 tents) to keep everyone focused and relaxed. Got to keep the whole American Pinball team together and happy.

Dude... barry replied to a guy asking for more cleavage... barry responds saying we plan on making an alt art package. Then, barry replied again with "The alternative art package will be more of an adult theme and therefore an option to the standard art package" - What more do you want? It's straight from the horse's mouth. Alt-art is about addressing different desires.. not 'upgrading to replace bad art'.

If you've paid attention, you've seen people like Josh saying they wanted more cleavage all along, and other commentary about the choices. Maybe they've just decided the demand is worth exploring based on feedback...

Or, its all an elaborate coverup like you've suggested, seeded long before reveal, and they plan on making people pay for alt-art as a way to address negative comments about a prototype game.

Place your bets...

Yup. I lived this 4 years back. That's why I've been so vocal about this game's art.

Pins are all about art now. It'll sell a theme nobody wanted (like Metallica) and it will sink a sure bet (like Beatles)

If yoy haven't noticed this trend you haven't been paying attention.

Maybe I missed it ? I don't believe they said anything about a price difference if you can choose between family friendly or more adult themed art.

I'd wait until we know more about final art work and pricing.

LTG : )

pinballstar posted pricing, $7400 (art blades are included)

Just got the email as well. Between this game and POTC by JJP, I will be one broke dude.... Good times for pinball and alot of quality games coming out. Its fantastic....