Agreed

I hate how white people are stereotyped in pinball art

I've heard this criticism of Houdini art a lot but I don't get it and nearly every single person that sees mine in person, pinheads and non pinheads alike, comment on how beautiful it is. So maybe these are things that people who are artists or really into art notice and don't enjoy but I think most "other" people find it to be at least generally pleasing if not beautiful, at least in the case of Houdini. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, to each their own, etc., etc.

Well, if you put Houdini next to let’s say, a Thunderbirds, (like they have in Banning) then, yeah... Houdini’s art package becomes even MORE amazing to look at!

Yeah I’ve never had that problem, but I’ve never had a problem with games where people claim things block their view. I can see and “feel” where the ball is going and if I see it about to pass under something, I know where it’s going to be in a millisecond. When I see the ball going toward the outlane on AC/DC, I can always nudge and generally save it. I get way more drains on the left actually off the TNT targets or a series of
Bounces after a cannon shot!

Houdini is like a lot of Photoshop Sterns in the sense that it’s technically bad art, looks bad in lit promo pics, but under its own GI in person looks much much better. Elvis is an example of that...just horrible playfield art, but in a dark gameroom with its own GI & flasher show, the visual experience is transformed a bit.

Mine is close to CV and WOZ, two games rarely compared to Thunderbirds (I hope), but yeah.

Thunderbirds makes all other pinball machines play and look amazing. It’s a complete pile of trash.

You don't get ball strikes on the under side of the cannon? Those aren't savable.

I've no issue with the cannons on STTNG that people moan about, and which are far less obstructive than the cannon on AC/DC.

I've absolutely zero problem with Popeye and it's one of my favourite games.

I quite liked it. *shrug*

That doesn’t happen on my acdc

Never. Not in thousands of plays. I have an original run Premium.

Are you sure it was Thunderbirds you played?

If the ball is hitting the canon... something is wrong. Probably the wire routing.

The complaint on sttng is the shape of the slings DUE to the canons... not the canons themselves.

Right drains aren’t monsters on acdc

Not to derail the thread, but regarding the ACDC outlane drains, my audits show left drain is 1700 right drain is 1100.

Haha, seriously!
Yesterday was my first flip of Tird-der-birds.
People complain all day long about Houdini’s shots and how there was no whitewood, etc...
Houdini plays like a masterpiece of pinball geometry compared to to Homepin’s game.
Think you’re shooting a left outer loop? Nope!
Sweet center ramp shot that returns? Nope!
Cool scoop under lift ramp? Nope!
I think this game has more targets facing upward and sideways than towards the player.
At least it has a swinging target that was kind of fun. Kinda...

I did however like the deeper concave flipper buttons though. Good job on those Homepin!

It's not the wiring. It hits the bottom of the assembly ... and this is after having raised it a few mm with washers. Either off the left slingshot, or when balls are pinging around quickly. My slings are still pretty nuclear even with resistors. Sometimes in a 3 ball game, all 3 balls will drain that way.

Like I said, all the other AC/DCs I've played have had the issue ... just mine seems particularly bad.

Also, I have seen people claim that the STTNG cannons are obstructive ... though I don't see it myself. Maybe if you're short?

This doesn't happen on the AC/DC LTBR LE here at all either. Do you have the coils set to soft? That takes about 5% off the power.

Resistors take about 20% off.

Also, I'm not sure that setting works. It was thought to be bugged on old code, I thought? There was nothing in the patch notes saying it had been fixed.

Is this the ac/dc tread now?

And that's a nice alternate backglass that I see there!

No it’s a Munsters thread

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You saw this with JJP and Balcer before.

Woz was an unorthodox game with huge outlanes that wasn’t very newbie friendly.

So they came back with hobbit, the easiest longest playing dumb game of all time.

Go for the middle ground folks!

In all seriousness, I got too put on quite a few plays on Oktoberfest at expo.

I came away very impressed and pleasantly surprised what was created about a theme of this. Game was very smooth and a blast to play. Art was great, shots were nice and the music was kick ass. Joe Balcer made a hellafun game here. Josh is doing a great job on code here. I’m not a fan of Houdini because of the tight shots and for me personally I don’t enjoy playing it.

Oktoberfest is just a breath of fresh air and a fun game too play.

I talked with Josh at the booth there and of the 3 Games there too play only once he had to pull the glass off once for a ball stuck somewhere. The games played flawlessly at the show and these were all prototypes!

Very impressed 2nd effort. It’s a hit as far as I’m concerned and when you guys get a chance too play one in person I think you’d agree.

I was standing next too Roger Sharpe at the unveiling watching him play and he enjoyed it as well. He did tell the team members it shot very well and the “geometry” was right !

As far as pricing I was hearing $7200-7800. They need to keep this low $7s and not scare away potential customers. With MBr coming out at $6k it’s becoming a very heated battle too get your business.

That’s my .02

Complaining about Long games vs. short games with no context is a horrible way to critique a pinball machine.

-Content of a game matters. Hobbit has a billion things to do, so long games are fine as the content makes sense for an adventure of a game.

-Every game can be adjusted to play easier or harder

-Tournament players are in the minority, most people can’t keep a ball alive for over 2 minutes whether a game is deemed “long” or “short” by the experts.

Never listen to an opinion based on “ball time length” without context.

Not complaining. Just throwing in a balcer pontification based upon some early griping. I haven’t played Oktoberfest.

Great job API. That is how an unveil should be done. Games played great all week and team API was there to answer questions and share the excitement of their hard work with all. This company is doing all the right things and will be around for many years to come.

Don’t forget about @ferret!

Oops yes absolutely! You can really tell they are stepping up the game and effort on this.

I’m not any manufacturer specific fanboy.
I own them all. I love all pinball.

I’ll tell it like it is, if the game is a steaming pile, or if it’s the 2nd coming of Christ I’ll tell ya.

Oktoberfest is a damn fun game and well done. I hope they sell a bunch.

I can not get away from it.

My dinner menu tonight.

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...many of which have a very same-y feel to them. Just having a LOT of modes doesn't make the game great or even fun. It's easily the worst JJP game, and I don't see them doing much more in the way of software because even with the new software it's still overall not that fun. We're not talking WWE-level bad, but it's JJPs worst by a mile, and I'm sure Jack is relieved to watch it in the rear view mirror after a troubled development and pretty mediocre sales.

So many lies. It’s beneath you. Play recent code. JJP’s best game, hands down. Modern masterpiece. The last great game any modern mfg has put out. Your loss if you can’t enjoy an incredible cinematic pinball adventure.

I LOL'd

My loss then. If we're talking PRETTY, then you have a point. But I don't play pretty, and Hobbit is a very same-y game that is not much fun.

And all you have to do is look at the prices and length of time on the market (plus no more on the line) to realize that Hobbit is not the most desired JJP pin, and therefore not the masterpiece you say. You can like it (just like I and a LOT of others can dislike it), but the pricing and length of sale time says clearly "no masterpiece". Look for yourself, there's an $8500 first owner Black Arrow Hobbit with 100 plays on it today for $6650. Almost a $2000 loss in 100 plays is not "masterpiece pricing". And that's not isolated case. Hobbits often selling for $6000-$6500 IF they sell. Lots of "Not sold" too. Secondary market pricing always tells the story.

The “Pinside tastemakers” are wrong. They like Goatf***ers and every Zizzle-with-flow Stern puts out. The “market” is irrelevant to how I enjoy and review games. I thought Hobbit was garbage at first. So did you. That’s where it’s rep in this forum from the vocal haters comes from. Guess what? Play it now. It’s not the same game it used to be.

I don’t play unfun games. We can agree that WWE is a piece of shit. I’d never own or play a game that bad. I play Hobbit because it’s very fun. I like an adventure style game like TSPP & LOTR every so often, and Hobbit is the only modern game in that style.

This is a generality, but likely true if you narrow the scope. How about you name some names? I'll likely nod my head. Especially on the ones shilling for Stern on the down low who think they're good at it.

I have. Still sucks. Less suckage, but it still falls short of greatness.

This is 100% true. It's just that they raised it out of the code sewer and into mildly enjoyable, undeniably beautiful game that I still don't like and is no masterpiece.

If you left it at "I think Hobbit is fun" and didn't go Goatf***ers/Zizzle hype level crazy saying Hobbit was a "masterpiece" then I would have been, "meh, we'll agree to disagree" but I'd let it pass. But to put out there that somehow I and the market in general have it totally wrong and Hobbit is AMAZING NOW is just objectively wrong. The new software made it a lot better, but it didn't make it close to good enough to be in the "masterpiece" universe. And the secondary market in general (even outside Pinside) reinforces that with the declining number of greenbacks changing hands for the game.

-There are a lot of buying options out there and when it comes to Hobbit, most people don’t care about the movies, so that takes it off their “must spend lots of money on this” list. Theme is important.

-Pinside taste makers seem to now like math-depth & and not story/adventure depth.

-Pinside taste makers now hate widebodies, even tho TZ & STTNG were on every collector’s list for decades.

Hobbit pre-orders were $7500. So, where it’s priced in the aftermarket right now is respectable considering all these factors. I’m happy with my Smaug for the price I paid for it. Would I pay the current NIB JJP price for it? No way....but I wouldn’t buy any of their games for that price lol.

There is not a single pinball machine that has you doing math. If your not smart enough to push a lock bar button, then press a flipper button, and then press the lock bar button again then you cant really blame Dwight for your short comings.

TH is better then it should be with its layout. They managed to make a decent game out of something that really shouldn't work. Its really good at some things but it will always have that layout.

I haven't yet played Oktoberfest but it looks super fun. Pinsiders and the folks at American Pinball deserve a thread to talk about Oktoberfest.

Start a thread for owners. I would but I’m not buying the game (I don’t think).

This is good to hear. I'm looking forward to playing Oktoberfest.

Or we could use this thread that has "Oktoberfest" in it's name to discuss it.

I played it and thought it was a lot of fun. Got some duck mode going. I really like the roller coaster. The metal supports resemble a real roller coaster.

LTG : )

Did they mention when it would be shipping?

December 2018 or January 2019

The more I look at this, the more I dig it. I think this will be a great pin. I have Sterns, but a Spooky on order...and a Data East coming...this may be my first American Pinball. What a great time for pinball. So much to choose from.

A couple of crazy ass dopes arguing with each other is priceless!

In the meantime, this thread is about Oktoberfest, a cool looking pin. Not idiot drivel over other pins.

I was told Thursday that I was first on the order list. Email sent at 630 am pacific before reveal. Recieved my confirmation later in day. Here's hoping its here before Christmas!

An HUO LE sold locally here a few months back for $7200. There's always going to be sales where games are purposely priced to sell quickly. The lowest priced sale doesn't mean that is the average selling price for the game all of a sudden. Remember the HUO Star Trek LE for $6k? I do (tried to buy it, lol)...but that's not the new average selling price of the game though just because that one sold for the price. Condition, and location also heavily impacts game pricing.

Also, a LOT of others like The Hobbit as well The game is incredible with its latest code, what JJP did with 2.96, and now 2.97 (soon 3.0) is very impressive.

Of course. There's a wide range of sale prices due to geography, motivation, and time of year, but on a "masterpiece" the price trend is generally up. Hobbit is down to flat over time. That was the only point - using the sales data to be a more objective refutation of the game being a masterpiece. That doesn't mean people can't like it, but that simple sales price data point helps keep the hyperbole to a simmer.

You do realize Hobbit holds the royal crown for Math-Depth right? do mode A and xyz modes will be multiplied, etc... And how many modes and multiplier algorithms are there in hobbit? ...nuff said. And I'm Not saying it's a bad thing, as I love that kind of detail to code. I'm just saying, Hobbit is the champ in the Math-Depth department, IMO; though, Pirates is taking a stab at surpassing it.

EDIT: And the first thing I'd do if I ever owned a hobbit is remove the center post, add lightning flippers, open the outlanes, and have at it. That's what's so great about the code, sure there's enough depth to cover a 45+ minute game, but progressing through most the meat of the content and wizard modes can be achieved with a hard setup game like that which makes subsequent games different from the previous.