Its still better than this.

amh_017 (resized).jpg

Given the constraints and company BS, Alien launched with a pretty great video package (I totally forgot about this when I was saying everyone besides JJP was not great or didn't care about the video). American Pinball would be wise to give you a call and at least gauge your level of interest in helping them raise the bar for the video in their pins.

Show some ACNC !

I don't think Ben claims this to be great. Also he did all that artwork for free long before it became a production game.

Now that's a really cool idea. I was worried one button would activate the 2 flippers at once, which would be dumb, but 2 buttons on one hand is smart ! A while ago I bought a one hand playstation gamepad, everything was on it but still left a hand free, it was great for slow paced games like RPG, and I got quite used to it, to the point I miss it

I care a lot about the LCD, it was one of my main driver to buy a WOZ, it's also why I consider buying a batman 66, and the same reason I have a japanese slot machine. It adds some variety, useful infos, some wow moments, and I do lift up my eyes from the playfield quite often to look at it. Everytime I unlock something new I'm excited to see the animations going with it. Really a great innovation in Pinball.

Now Oktoberfest isn't there, but clearly these are not the final animations so i don't think it's fair to start commenting on them. American Pinball wanted to show a playable machine, with a decent amount of code on a completed playfield, they did it, and they did it faster than any other pinball maker right now, kudos for that, and really looking forward to playing it.

Thanks. Credit mostly due to Kelly, our animator, he did the heavy lifting. But first we sat down and planned through how we were going to pull it off. We were limited in what we could or couldn't do with the cast (no Ripley for instance), and our assets aside from the films themselves were non-existent. We were also working with two different films, with different looks, and wanted to still tie everything together. So we were really careful with consistency, using the same feels for things like the glitching and static, even as we tried to give each mode a separate personality. This is I think the easiest mistake to make, trying too hard to make everything different. It feels like you're doing more, but you often end up with less.

Obviously if you don't have film assets you've got to try other things, but my feeling is you can still worker smarter, not harder, when it comes to filling that screen.

One thing I liked about Houdini's LCD was the way they used the curtains to make it the stage, that's the kind of thinking that could be taken further. Oktoberfest does a similar trick, but I would have pushed it harder down that path personally. You don't need your backglass to have an empty rectangle you feel like you have to constantly fill.

I'll save everyone time, interest level is zero, I've had my fill. If I were to ever work on another pin, and I think it's unlikely, it would only be something I had 100% control over. Alien taught me the letting someone else's business interests leak too much into my hobby just ruins the hobby for me.

Rubbish. You can easily read mine and I used fewer than 1900 fonts.

wow...not needed here

Josh is real good about the Music programming. As he said in his post, lots of music to come. There's even programming in Houdini to alter stuff. Wait for finished code to pass judgement on music yet.

I haven't seen it in person, but I really like Ben's AMH playfield art. I also like his cabinet art (ghost version). I really can't see what people don't like about it. To me it's clean and simple, nicely laid out and I really like cartoon ghosts wearing sunglasses for some reason. Can people be more specific about why they don't like it (genuinely interested).

Let me just say that I am first in line with one of APs bigger distros for OkF, have been for weeks, but right now I already have one pinball machine whose cheap looking art is all over the place, namely Full Throttle, I will not add another to my lineup, no matter how great the game.

My money is ready, I want this pin, and I only hope that they will drop all photoshop art and go with the hand drawn art style exclusively. On the playfield.
The rest is great, the animations and music are all down to code updates and licensing of the preferred music (which I bet was what keeps them at this point from adding all ze jermahn kraut favorites).

But playfield art I cannot update at a later point, this needs to be a homerun come shipping day.

Please AP, do what JJP did, listen to your customers and fix the playfield art package.

The playfield design looks super, and so many ramps and a friggin roller coaster.

D0550851-C46B-4A3F-AFDB-783E84115331.gif

... some of the art choices are ... questionable. Every shot of bartender is same stiff pose with thumb up’n. Hold a friggin mug with that hand or try turning away from the camera sometimes dude. Sheesh! The brown mustache girl ... wtf ...take that off her face. It doesn’t work the way you think it does. On backglass - fix the damn maids dress ... news alert ... it is fubar!! Ahem ... a real backglass is cool, unless you don’t have a badass design that will shine. I vote consider redesigning the artwork. There are no external licensing hindrances to worry about, it is all an internal review. A one time to review to create a different design alternate. Change art on cabinet, playfield, backglass, plastics and molded toys in one pass, review it and then consider which version to make, please.... I know the artist does many styles, try a slightly different one. That’s all.

Who gives a F about the "art" on an Oktoberfest? What do you expect? It looks ok and good enough for me.

The pin looks great to play.

My only complaint would be the lack of big titties and cleavage. See the vegas slot machine which is great!

The PF and layout/shots look fun.

Congratulations AP and team Oktoberfest.

Your game looks amazing, So many cool shots, I like the VUK, multiple magnets, some controllable = Awesome !
The wild wireforms are cool !

Thanks Rosh for taking some time to comment in the thread, especially when things are so hectic for you at the moment.
Looking forward to hearing the additional audio and adult mode implementation.

I will be patient as has been explained there is a lot more to come and the final product will blow us all away !

Thanks AP for including a ton of value and keeping the price point realistic, you will see strong sales on what looks to be such a fun game.

I am looking forward to playing Oktoberfest and owning one day.

Haha J-Kuug we arrived to film when we were told to. I should’ve messaged you privately

Were there any other contestants?

O, ya mean the art ???

LOL, yeah Jeff as i sat there watching the stream i thought it was pretty F ing cool!

I have a WPT and NBAFB and love those great pins! Now that is shitty art!

Great art, good art, crappy art....who's to say?

Not really, Stern has learned not to try and compete. The buyers really have not done anything to force them to compete and neither have the competition for that matter. As I said earlier, it will be interesting to see where American Pinball prices this game because if enough games come out that are full featured and priced lower than Stern then you could see some pressure for pricing adjustments. How many upper priced games can this market absorb?

What would happen to Stern if suddenly the combination of JJP, American, and Deeproot were putting out 5 new full-featured titles a year between them that were all priced at $7000 to $7500? That would be in addition to Chicago gaming putting out about one remake every 1.5 years. Stern's overhead could be a real problem for them if they can't just rake in the money like they have been the last couple years.

This kind of looks like a wal-mart Halloween decoration. Lol!

It looks fun! I'm interested in possibly ordering one. I do after all live in the "Alpine" village, & we have a "Alpenfest" every year with a big ole beer tent! It feels like I'm obligated to. Lol

For me Houdini easily wins against any Stern Premium featurewise, and Oktoberfest will most likely be in that same price range.

But Stern has upped their game and they do compete; nearly every one of their last machines looks stunning and Oktoberfest has a problem to even look cohesive.
The decision "what to buy" would be easier if Stern games would still look like Game of Thrones and stuff...

I don't know why the Display animations do look like this again. If you don't have an animator, don't animate or break it down to a level you can do. (Better do simple animation good, instead of complicated animation bad.) Like, don't animate that photorealistic juggling girl in a total artificial way but instead do a 2 phase cartoon animation. It looks better and is easier to do. Or for the 3D rendered rollercoaster just do a steady image (like comet) and animate the hair of the people and the rails.
Or just go back to dots. And for the rest Championship Pubs art package/ style would be a great fit, and is way easier to do than this kinda photorealistic art!
(Where I admit I like the Cab and the Backglass. Just the collage of different styles on the playfield and the green lawn is a bit off.)

So, back to topic, I really think Stern is well aware otherwise poor Kevin Connor still had to layout random photoshop clip art.
And I think they really waited as long as they could before implementing the LCD (rightfully so), to compete with JJP.

And this is something AP has to compete with (a higher hurdle then not long ago) or bail out if possible (like Thunderbirds still using a DMD, wich I think is the better way if you have a limited budget).

I really want to play Oktoberfest but I do not (yet) want to own this.
The most time the pin is (sadly) turned off but it sits in my room where I look at it.

But I'm still positive, Houdini got a little playfield makeover as well, so...

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but it looks like Joe Balcer is one of the characters on the back glass (Right) and so is Matt from Back Alley Creations (back left)

All I have to say is thank god they weren't naked like the easter eggs in Houdini's art package.

What does a German think of this theme and its execution in Oktoberfest? I know I sometimes cringe when other nationalities try to create an Australian theme. They always think its cool and exotic, but to an Australian it just comes off as kitsch, corny and over stereotyped. Is that the case here?

I don't mind the comparison to AMH. But remember we improved upon that with Rob Zombie and ACNC. We didn't go sideways or backwards.

Yes, there is definitely a progression of improving layout and design from AMH to ACNC. The weird thing about RZ is the cabinet art is much better than the PF art. Were those different people?

Same artist, but playfield art is hard. It's really an art, in and of itself, to do it right. I found working on the Alien playfield — remotely, with no access to the game — very challenging. People have leveled plenty of criticism at what I came up with, and I'll defend part of it by saying I did the best I could with what I had access to, but I will also freely admit that I share a lot of the criticism, and I really think it's something I'd approach differently now that I have some experience.

I think Ben doesn't get enough credit for AMH frankly. It's cheesy and corny, but it was always meant to be, that was the theme and the humor. He did so much on his own, it wasn't a one man show, but damn near close in many ways. And then Spooky actually built it, and laid the groundwork for the successful homebrew to small company model. Many haven't made it that far.

No doubt Aurich. I was very critical at first of the blank Alien PF art without it populated.

You did a great job and it looks AWESOME with the fully integrated package! I'm extremely happy with it.

And I agree on AMH, I've played it Austin at Pinballz and its really cool. Especially for a 1st Spooky effort and that's not a knock on the game, its really good and fun

Well, as a 1/2 German who grew up there (Dad was US Army, Mom was born and lived in Kaiserslautern Germany most of her life), let me say this:

The main music isn't right, and especially that rock guitar. No Oktoberfest tent in Munich plays anything but traditional German/Bavarian Volksmusik during the whole fest. There is more than enough different Oktoberfestmusik played there in the tents to fill all the modes and then some on this pin, and I expect most of that music is in the public domain. I'd drop that guitar and go 100% authentic Oktoberfestmusik.

The mix of German words and English words as well as the artwork also sticks out, and makes it come across more to be based upon an Oktoberfest here in the US versus the original fest in Munich. This is kinda disagrees with what was said during the SDTM preview interview, where they said their basis for the pin was from the Munich fest. For example, you'll never find a Dachshund or a bratwurst in a hot dog bun, yet both can be found in the artwork. Overall it does come across a bit stereotypical, but not too bad......

That being said, I like the look and layout of the pin more than I thought I would when it was first announced, so right now it's a pleasant surprise and one I'm looking forward to playing. If the code, rules, and gameplay are good I will more than likely be adding one to my wishlist, as the theme is a hit for this half-kraut flipperspieler who is proud of his German heritage, even if it is a little on the kitschy side.....

Is this still called a "dirty sanchez"?

Joe Schober confirmed they have a ton of A/V work/refinement to do before games ship and he also agreed the bartender voice doesn’t sound good. Everyone should just relax and wait 4-6 more weeks and see what changes they make and how it makes the game that much better.

I can put up with the art/music/animations. I kind of like the kitschy quirkyness. The theme, combined with this layout and (by the sounds of it in the H2H interview) the rules should make for a good game. Really can’t wait to play it.

Article was live on their website for a short time ahead of reveal. They took it down and put it back after.

I agree except about metal music that ruins all for me, I don’t like it and worse it is completely antithetical with the theme.

And the player controlled magnets sound awesome. Apart from outlane saves (Ie TOM, WCS and Black Knight) has any game used magnets like this before?

I agree and would say further. If you don’t have the skills and budget for LCD animations then...keep a Dmd display. CGC does an amazing job. I always thought that LCD was a chance to have great animations that could get closer to video games.

That said, Alien is the most immersive game I have ever played. This game is a winner but sounds like a total waste in the same time. Alien gets also one of the most beautiful populated playfield in my opinion.

About Oktoberfest, don’t get me wrong, I like all what I see, the artwork is very good (of course it could be different, better, more yellowed like beer but it is fairly nice), I like the backglass and the bias of staging the LCD like Houdini, I like this original layout, 3 flippers, 3 ramps (one is lifting, correct?), controllable magnet with 2nd button (if I don’t mistake), lots of other features, deep rules. BUT I don’t like what I hear unfortunately. Ok the voice feels too young compared with the guy ( but sometimes many people don’t get the voice of their looks, this is what you can say to yourself) but this metal music really sounds like antithetical in this game, it is worse than not liking metal music.

Yes, has been a long time coming

Thanks AP

All this talk of 90s CD ROM games is making me wish someone would actually produce something even close to that calibre. Wing Commander 3/4 were amazing. C&C red alert style videos of actors talking directly to a camera. That would be awesome. Something Manborg like.

The other thing is that mixed media art can work, and can work well. The issue is not the mixing of photos with drawn images or CG models. That can be amazing and there are artists who have made careers out of mixed media art. It is all about execution, which might be missing here.

People can be so critical. The game looked fun, but I didn’t get to play The never ending line made sure of that for me!

Great job AP!

The art's crap. But it is clear, and there's no unnecessary and counter-productive visual noise.

I disagree, neither are going to set the art world on fire but AMH is simple, legible, and cohesive.

Best integration of traditional German music with metal: Accept’s Fast as a Shark

Kinda reminds me of the Bier Haus slot machine.

Sure can. if you know the file names and where they reside on the disc, however I think the music mix is ok. I like the variety.

That would be Hurricane's double-ferris and slooooooooow loop return back to the flipper - a game I can't play now without singing along to that shot: "I am waiting for my ball back, I am waiting for my ball back, I am waiting for my ball back, I am waiting for my f*****g ball back."

People don't seem to think of pinball art or animations in terms of a design exercise, when really that's exactly what it is. You're having to work to templates and layouts of specific sizes and shapes, and in the case of animation, timing. I think the golden rule of pinball art, regardless of how much you spend on it, is always going to be: have a clear idea of what it is you want to see and achieve, especially if you have license limitations, before you commit a single line to canvas. If you end up having to improvise on the fly for any reason at all, it is ALWAYS going to show.

It also illustrates perfectly what I said just now about pinball art being a design and layout exercise. Every element needs to look like it belongs where it does and complement each other without distracting the player's eye, and that's what AMH does.

You know who doesn't get nearly enough credit for this? Data East. Lots of criticisms get levelled at how their figures are drawn and the sketchy kind of style their DMD games employ on the playfield, but as far as layout and composition goes, it's A-grade work.