(Topic ID: 142316)

*FIXED* Row 1 Ground error and hand/glove issues

By VolunteerPin

8 years ago


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#1 8 years ago

Edit: The problem on this first video is fixed. You can possible see/hear the hand motor running during the issue on the first video. Scroll down and now view the video of the pin turning on but the hand not working properly. Please chime in with some advice and hopefully a fix.

This is second issue is now fixed but both upper flipper buttons are not registering. They show 'open' on the single switch test. Everything is seems to be working. I wonder if it is possible that I fried something else on the MPU when I shorted stuff. That, or maybe a fuse though I don't find a fuse singularly responsible for those switches. Again any and all help is appreciated.

SOLVED: see below. I edited the title of the thread to hopefully help someone in the future with similar issues.

Thanks!

#2 8 years ago

Most likely scenario...
While you were adjusting the switch, with power on, somehow you shorted HV to the switch matrix and killed (at least) the ULN2803 at U20. Fortunately, in WPC-S games like JM, that IC is socketed. You can acquire a new IC fairly cheaply.

If you want to test my theory, remove the center connector in the lower row of the MPU.
Attach a logic probe to 5V and ground on the driver board.
Power on.
Each pin where you removed the connector should be pulsing. Anything else indicates a problem with U20.
Have at it.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#3 8 years ago

I don't have a logic probe so I just ordered one. Hopefully I'll have an update later in the week.

#4 8 years ago
Quoted from VolunteerPin:

I don't have a logic probe so I just ordered the chip. Hopefully I'll have an update later in the week.

#5 8 years ago

If you have a DMM, you can test each pin for DC voltage. A non strobing pin will measure 12VDC. Strobing pins will measure something less than 12VDC as your meter "averages" the voltage over time and will see the quick pull to ground but it happens so fast that it won't show on the meter display.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#6 8 years ago

Well, wouldn't you know it. I ordered the 2803 chip and it came in today. Sadly, I did not actually check the board before ordering. The chip in the board is actually an AD1851 which is a different size and all. Suck! I hate not having my JM working and me not having the knowledge to fix it.

So, if I try the testing with the DMM, I have a couple of questions:

1. What connector do I need to remove when testing? I see a ton of connectors.
2. Do I just ground the black and see what happens with each pin on the 12v setting? Do I check with the chip in or out?

Sorry for the stupid questions. The electrical stuff on these pins really stumps me.

#7 8 years ago

Wait. It can't be an AD1851. That's a Digital to Analog converter used on sound boards.

The ULN2803 is on the MPU board which is lower left in the head. It will have two rows of .100 header pins for a total of six connectors. If the original battery holder is on the board, the ULN2803 will be under it. You can remove that board.

Meter set to DC volts. Black tucked under the ground braid in the head. Red on each pin, one at a time, on the lower center connector.

Record and report readings.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#8 8 years ago

Okay. The U20 I found was not on the board with the batteries. I'll look again and update. I thought it would be on the MPU but found a U20 on the larger board above and to the right. Thanks for all of your help.

Darin

#9 8 years ago

On the Wpc-s mpu the u20 chip is under the battery daughter board. It is the only socketed chip under there, if memory serves.

#10 8 years ago

Well, she'll turn on now and play. The glove, which used to work perfectly, is struggling. Looks like it is not really moving side to side but does have some front/back movement. You can hear the motor running like it is trying to move the glove but it doesn't move. Any thoughts? I'm heading to bed but can try to take a video of the glove situation and glove test tomorrow.

Again, thank you! It is good to at least see it nearly back to normal.

Darin

#11 8 years ago

Here is a video of my hand issue now. Any and all help is appreciated.

#12 8 years ago

Linked this post in the JM owners thread too. Here is a video and a couple photos which I hope are helpful.


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#13 8 years ago

Im assuming since the motor is working and there is no movement that the x nut is stripped out? Also maybe it possibly went to far and needs a little help getting back on good threads ?

#14 8 years ago

There is something wrong at the mechanical interface between the motor shaft and the worm gear. In the video, at 1:07 when the motor starts to turn, the shaft doesn't move at all. Reference the exploded parts diagram. There is an interfacing connecting piece (X Nut?) that is either missing or not operating correctly. It connects the motor shaft end with the worm gear shaft end and looks like a small cross. Examine your game closely and I think you'll figure it out.
PinSideJM.jpgPinSideJM.jpg
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#15 8 years ago

I posted this on the owners thread also. Looks like the x bolt isn't threaded well in the distal bracket and is pushing/bent the bracket some so wondering if that is the reason for the gap and lack of connection.

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#16 8 years ago

That definitely doesn't look right.
You can use a crescent wrench to perhaps bend that bracket back to where it should be.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#17 8 years ago

Alright! Making some serious progress. Turns out that I was able to manually screw the X-axis bolt back into place without removing anything from the pin. The distal end of the X-bolt was simply pushing the bracket which is why it looked out of whack. Glove test works perfectly. For some reason my upper flipper buttons are no longer registering so I can't move the glove forward/backward. I have to go to work so I'll trouble-shoot that later. Even so, my one test game netted me a nice 4.1 billion points which is a good game for me. I just needed to go 3 across on the matrix for my multiball so it really didn't effect things too bad.

I'll post again once I fix this last little issue.

Thanks for all the help!

#18 8 years ago

Following....

#19 8 years ago
Quoted from VolunteerPin:

Alright! Making some serious progress. Turns out that I was able to manually screw the X-axis bolt back into place without removing anything from the pin. The distal end of the X-bolt was simply pushing the bracket which is why it looked out of whack. Glove test works perfectly. For some reason my upper flipper buttons are no longer registering so I can't move the glove forward/backward. I have to go to work so I'll trouble-shoot that later. Even so, my one test game netted me a nice 4.1 billion points which is a good game for me. I just needed to go 3 across on the matrix for my multiball so it really didn't effect things too bad.
I'll post again once I fix this last little issue.
Thanks for all the help!

I figured thats what happened bc it happen to mine

#20 8 years ago

Still can't get my upper flipper button switches to register. They show "open" on the single switch test. Any thoughts? Fuse? Something fried on MPU? I adjusted the magnetic flipper button board on the right to see if the magnet placement is an issue but it doesn't seem to solve the problem. Thanks for looking and giving input.

Darin

#21 8 years ago

Those flippers are opto driven, right? Have you tried cleaning the opto's with a q tip and windex, also make sure the flipper button is pushing the plastic thing that moves through the optos, if it is not going far enough, the switch will not register.

#22 8 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

Those flippers are opto driven, right?

I think the game has GLM enhanced flipper boards in it.
To the OP: swap the left and right flipper boards to see if the problem follows.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#23 8 years ago

Will do. I can take a photo of the flipper boards as they are now. Just to clarify...the flippers are working just fine. It is only the upper flipper buttons not working (these are the buttons that move the glove forward/backward).

Someone in the past has put on a magnetic flipper board on the right. The uppers were working fine before the short except for they working opposite of what the apron says.

#24 8 years ago

Switching the flipper boards has no effect. It is only the upper flipper buttons (which move the hand on the Y-axis) which is not working. I have no error messages and I can find no other switches not working properly.

#25 8 years ago

When you put the game in switch test, do those buttons show as working?

#27 8 years ago

And these were working before you shorted the board?

#28 8 years ago

Yes. One thing I thought of as I was waking from sleep. When I was trying to follow Chris' instruction on how to check chip U20 I may have screwed something up. Before I realized the U20 is under the battery holder I did find another U20 chip which is on the main large board. I attempted to check that chip using my DMM but I got confused about what Chris was explaining with the 5V and the logic probe...so what I did was put my ground probe on 5V and checked one of the pins in that chip. When I did that the speakers popped and I immediately removed the probes and cursed myself for being stupid.

I awoke today with that memory and wonder if it is possible I fried something which could be responsible. Everything on the pin seems to be fine and I would think if I fried something on the board maybe more things would be out of whack. Anyhow, I thought I'd share this newly remembered info in case it helps.

#29 8 years ago

Do you get a test report when you turn the game on? Did you find the chip that Chris was referring to? As Chris mentioned it is socketed, so I would order a new one, pull the old one very carefully and pop the new one in.

#30 8 years ago

The "other" U20, as I think you mentioned before, is an AD1851 D-to-A converter. I don't think you hurt it by probing it backwards. And, that IC has nothing to do with the glove. It converts digital audio to analog for amplification by the amp.

Here's a bit of info.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#MPU_Circuitry_Switch_Matrix_Problem_Diagnosis

I don't have the "jumper" test in the wiki yet as it's not really that helpful for WPC MPUs. But in this case, we can give it a go.
Get 6 inch or so length of wire, stripped on both ends.
One by one, touch one end of the wire to a pin on J209, and the other end to every pin on J207. A single unique switch report should be heard/seen for each connection.

The "hand control" switches are numbered 66 and 67.
When you touch J209/8 to J207/6, the right hand control should register.
When you touch J209/9 to J207/6, the left hand control should register.
Note that the switches are on the same column.

Press on soldier.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#31 8 years ago

FIXED: simple solution...connector into the MPU was not seated well. Removed and re-set and now all is well.

Johnny is back up and running! Thanks for all the help and thanks to Drewblood for figuring out the loose connection!

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