(Topic ID: 134886)

JM - Check fuse F115 F116 J112 Opto


By playboywillis

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by mot
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#1 4 years ago

Hi, I've been trying to troubleshoot this in the JM thread but am bringing it to its own topic in hope of assistance. Warning - this is my first real work inside a machine.

Have the error in the title and was using this as a guide: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Check_fuses_F114_and_F115_message I complete steps 1-11 and it all passes. I tried step 1 after these steps and get fluctuations from 1 to around 3. Not sure if this is good because there is activity, or bad because it's not the right activity.

I have reseated all ribbon cables, all connectors basically on the power board and sound board. I replaced fuses F115 and F116. All of the LEDs on the power board are on and all TPs come back with the correct voltage. The opto board under the playfield has an LED light that is on, and I have reseated all connections.

There are other errors. Upon startup, the drop target fires quite a few times, and I hear the hand clicking. There are errors for both of these when entering the test menu. These are both related to J107, and I am getting the correct voltage from those pins. I'm unsure if these errors are related to the fuse issue.

I have gone off of a lot of these Check F115 F116 threads that I could find on all forums, but the big difference between them and mine is that all of my board LEDs are working and none of my fuses appear to be blown. I have also tested the fuse holders for F115 and F116 and it all appears normal.

Does anyone have an idea where to go from here? Thanks

#2 4 years ago

I don't know if it helps, but in the switch edge test, some switches work and some don't.

#3 4 years ago

I was wrong, TP7 is not getting the correct voltage. Looking into it.

Nevermind. Still learning the DMM.

#5 4 years ago

It worked before transporting. It's possible I might have hooked it up yesterday missing a connector or two, but have not been working with the power on. If something was damaged, I was just looking for a point in the right direction to test it.

#7 4 years ago

All test points are correct. J112 J116 J117 & J118 are correct.

#9 4 years ago

I only checked F115 and F116 out of holders. Should I do them all separately or at the same time?

Ribbon cables are correct.

I was just reading a guide and this is stated: Test for AC voltage at J101 pins 4 and 7 (or J129 pins 4 and 7 on WPC-95). A reading of 13 to 18 volts AC should be seen. This is the AC voltage coming from the
transformer. If no voltage here, check the Molex connectors around the transformer and at the power driver board.

I think this means continuity testing, or buzz. I also assume this means testing 4 and 5 together and 6 and 7 together. When I do this with the continuity setting, it flashes a high number and falls back down to 0. I'd guess that means that there's an issue with the transformer, but all connections seem tight. So tight in fact, I can't take them apart by hand.

Does this mean anything to you?

#10 4 years ago

Last question for the night. When I test a fuse holder with the fuse out, what should I be seeing? Should it be the desired voltage on one side and a smaller voltage on the other, or should it be the desired voltage on both sides?

For example, should F115 read 12V on the right and around 1-3V on the left, or should it read 12V on both sides?

I appreciate all the help, but I've been at this for 7 hours straight for the second night in a row. Have to pick it back up tomorrow.

Thanks again

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

would suggest 12Vreg. is no longer working. Fuse on the left side should be 12V as well.

That makes sense. I was thinking at first that the fuse completes the circuit, but it sounds like the circuit should already be there and the fuse is just a safety between the circuit?

Quoted from zaza:

Can you check connectors on both ball-trough boards ? or check those opto's in testmenu switch-edges.

I'll have to check this when I get home.

Quoted from billsfanmd:

I check fuses using continuity. Lead on each side and listen for tone

I have a cheap DMM that doesn't actually make a tone. Is there a specific number I should be looking for?

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from mot:

Which switches on the game work and don't work?

I can't give you all of them at the moment, but I can tell you that the switches in the coin door are seen, if I hold a flipper up it registers, but pushing the inlanes and outlanes down, for example, doesn't register.

Quoted from mot:

Is switch 24 closed?

Switch 24 is open, which I believe is the root cause of the "Check Fuse" error.

Quoted from mot:

Do any of the optos work? Are they open or closed?

I'd have to check this when I get home. I don't think I did any opto tests.

Quoted from mot:

Do you get the error message if you disconnect the connectors from the opto boards under the playfield?

I'll also have to try this when I get home. I did reseat all of the opto board connectors under the playfield, but never checked them in the test menu.

#16 4 years ago

Oh shit, I think I've been reading this wrong. When you guys say test the fuse out of the holder, you mean test the actual fuse itself? I thought everyone was saying to test the fuse holder on the board with no fuse in it.

If that's the case, Fuse 115 and 116 are definitely good. I will check all of the other fuses tonight, and go buy some new ones for the other slots.

#18 4 years ago

No battery leakage. The game was working 100% before I moved it, so I really don't think it would be corrosion.

However, I'll try any fix I can find.

#19 4 years ago

I'll check that out. I've got a weird one for you. On JM, 212, 205, 206, 208 and 209 all have multiple wires going to them. When we were taking the head off of this one, there was a stray wire electrical taped to a group of wires, but I couldn't see any exposed wires, so it seemed like this wire was just taped to get it out of the way.

The game was working fine without this wire. I've found out that wire is supposed to be the only wire connected to J207 and it's described like this in the menu: to cabinet switches

I would think this would make a difference but the game was working without it, unless it was hacked into a wire and I just couldn't see an exposed wire. I've checked multiple wire groups but could not find the sticky electrical tape residue where it was originally taped.

#20 4 years ago

Also, what was suggested in another thread was "Run a jumper lead from J206-2 to J208-4 and see if it goes away. The jumper would simulate the closure of switch #24." I'll buy a jumper after work today too, if y'all think this would help rule things out.

#21 4 years ago

Only fuse that was bad was F104. Replaced that but didn't notice a change.

Now I looked at the ball trough boards and none of the LEDs are lit. The wires that are sodered to it are getting around 72V, but yeah, the LEDs aren't lit up.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Can you make a picture of the trough boards with the wires that are 72 Volt ? Although the LED's are infra-red and not visible for human eyes, this doesn't sound correct.

I was wrong. They're not actually attached to the board, but to the coil that pops the balls out.

Quoted from TheLaw:

When I this problem on my WPC-S system it was a blown LM339 chip on the opto board.

Is there a way to test this with a DMM, or do I need to keep ruling other things out?

#27 4 years ago

Hehe, well I've got about 15 hours in and have tried a lot of stuff. Game was 100% before it rode in the car (and I hooked everything back up).

Going to try to test the switch matrix now.

#30 4 years ago

Just did the testing from this link, http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems and it all checks out.

I disconnected J106 J107 J108 J109 and error remains. Ran a jumper from from J107-2 to J109-4, closing switch 24, and the error went away.

#31 4 years ago

Also, I'm guessing Lm339 needs to be soldered on, hehe.

I can't solder.

#33 4 years ago

Its' possible. Shit man.

By the way, I appreciate all the help you guys are giving me.

#35 4 years ago

Honestly dude, if it's not that I wouldn't know what to do. Feel like I've tested everything in this thing.

#40 4 years ago

Problem is that I was the one hooking the head back up. I'm also the one who told him what to mark that side as, the security board.

I've been thinking back and I'm pretty sure I mixed up two of the connectors between j106-j109, specifically, I think either mixed up 08 and 09, or 06 and 07.

Probably blew up something.

#41 4 years ago

Oh and the last thing I did tonight was hook that wire up to 207 and it didn't change anything

#45 4 years ago

Awesome guys. I'll give the J101 connector a look.

Mot that board is now correct. If I hooked them up wrong it was only for a few seconds. I feel like that page you linked is burned into my eyes.

Would you have any idea what to look for on the coin board? aside from reseating connectors and testing voltages I'm pretty illiterate at this point in time.

#47 4 years ago

Yeah, that guide always ends with replacing U20 if you can't figure out what's going on.

#49 4 years ago

Something like that. Switch 24 is open when it should be closed.

There's a couple guides out there, most point to a BR, U20, LM339, or an easy fix. I was hoping for the easy fix one.

#51 4 years ago

I think 12v is confirmed with steps 1-11 in the link in my first post. It was the first thing I checked, but I'll check it again.

#53 4 years ago

Yeah, all my test points are correct across the whole board.

#54 4 years ago

That's actually why I've had to go off of these guides. Any thread I've found has either a power board test point not right or an LED out.

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from mot:

So switch 24 shows as open. That's problem number one in my opinion. Let's look at how switch 24 works. (I'm referencing the manual on IPDB).
On the CPU Board:
J212-2, Green-Red, switch col. 2, to Coin Door Board J3-2
J212-8, White-Yellow, switch row 4, to
Coin Door Board J3-6
On the Coin Door Interface Board
J3-2 is connected directly to J3-6 via diode D2
It's that simple. That's why I think you should start here. Forget about the playfield wiring and the opto boards. You might even disconnect all of the following to simplify everything:
J205 (dedicated switches to coin door)
J206 (playfield switch rows)
J207 (cabinet switch columns)
J208 (playfield switch columns)
J209 (cabinet switch rows)

I'm getting 10.8 on J3-2 and 11.7 on J3-6 AT The Connector. Don't know if the board is taking it.

#56 4 years ago

And 10.8 at both ends of diode D2

#58 4 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Hmm...got anyone near you with a similar machine you could hook your opto board up to and test?

Looks like the only thing close to me is a BSD, and looking in the manual, it doesn't look like it uses the same board.

Quoted from mot:

The switch matrix columns and rows have signals pulsed at something like 500 times per second, so the voltage isn't really meaningful.

Alright then. Sorry man but what exactly would I be looking for here then? The right colored wires are definitely where they're supposed to be on the connector.

#61 4 years ago
Quoted from kporter946286:

Can you show us a picture of your switch matrix and also tell us if the Drop target and hand clicking are still present. This is a guess and I am not sure if it holds true (Hibler or MOT would know better) but a bad diode on the Matrix can cause a phantom Switch error.

I'll see if my wife can take a picture. By switch matrix, do you mean J212 through J209, or do you mean underneath the batteries. In one of the guides it says something about switch matrix being under the batteries. Also, I tried checking the switch matrix according to this guide: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems. I got single switch responses from every pin on J209 when I had the other end of the jumper hooked up to J207-1 through J207-6. I did not get any response from J207-7 through J207-9.

Quoted from kporter946286:

In Post #15 you state the Left Out lane and Right out lane are out. (no mention if the left return or right return work but they are the 2 switches in between them in that Column or if they were fixed after post #45) Is it possible during move the left out lane switch's diode broke loose causing the phantom switch on the Always open (Left Outlane is located South West of the Always closed and phantom switch errors usually happen in diagonal boxes from my experiences) and possibly the wire to that switch disconnected causing your Left Return Lane, Right Return lane and Right Out land to go bad?

Alright, actually most of the switches don't work in the switch edge test. The coin door buttons work, the flippers will be seen if I hold them up. I did not test every switch but more don't register than ones that do. For example, no inlane outlane switches are seen, ball launch not seen, none of the 9 matrix buttons register, none of the ramp switches. I ran through one of the tests (I don't remember which one) and a ton of switches came back in the test.

I wasn't bringing this up because I felt I was already making this more complicated with the drop target error. I still don't know if that and the glove are related to switch 24. That and I don't really know what I'm talking about so it was hard to relay that information.

#62 4 years ago

Mot, thanks for the detail man. I will be checking this as soon as I get back home today.

#64 4 years ago

Ahhh. I believe that the only thing that showed up in that was switch 24 being open.

Then, switch 22 when I closed the coin door.

Also, I don't know if this will make sense to you, but if I turn the machine on with the door open, it doesn't try to pop the drop target or move the hand, but will immediately try when the door is closed.

EDIT: I can tell you that I'm 100% certain according to your linked picture, that I only have one square in that test, and that it's switch 24

#66 4 years ago

ALRIGHT FELLAS. I don't know what the hell happened last night but things took a weird turn. I have some folks visiting from out of town so I didn't really get a chance to check the machine out until around midnight last night.

Anyway, I was trying what Mot was saying about tracing the line from J212. I unplugged all other connections from that area, and was also messing around with the coin door board. When I plugged it back up, I heard a different noise. WTF? DMD has a message about the test menu on it. No Check Fuse error. Is it fixed?! I hit the start button and nothing. Ok not fixed.

I go into the switch edge test and a lot of the switches that weren't registering the other day were registering. However, there were a lot of other errors and the machine doesn't really seem to detect a change between an open or closed coin door.

Here's the breakdown:
Turn on machine
Message for test menu --- I hit menu
3 messages pop up. Drop target is broken, hand mech - x no progress, and x home switch error
Go into switch levels and the following switches have errors.
12, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 43, 74, 77

image1.JPG

So good news, check fuse error is somehow gone.

Bad news, looks like a column out like you thought KP.

#68 4 years ago

So you're saying the issue is that 24 is NOT showing up in that list?

#70 4 years ago

Also, since I got you here, I was a bit confused by your directions. You want me to disconnect pins 206-209. Leave J212 plugged in. Then you want me to test continuity on connector, NOT pins, between only J212-2 and J212-8. I need to do this while it's plugged into the board or else there's no power?

The other day when I tested those lines on the connector unplugged from the coin door board, J3, I tested voltage and they were both right around 12. Since I found I was unsure of your directions last night, I also tested continuity between J3-2 and J3-6, but I know that doesn't make any sense.

Or did you want me to check continuity of D-2 on the coin door board?

#71 4 years ago

I should also add that while a lot of the switches I said didn't previously work in the test (inlanes and outlanes) were working, the start button and the buy in button were not working. Since that's in line with the drop target, I'll check that line of the cyber matrix out tonight to see if those are out too.

Edit* Alright I was reading another thread and looking at the picture of switch matrix and I finally understand how it relates to U20 and U18. Thanks man.

#73 4 years ago

So J212 unplugged, J3 coin door board plugged in. Buzz continuity on which connector? The J212 or J3.

I promise this is the last question for the day.

#75 4 years ago

Dude this is weird. In the switch matrix picture, it says that J207 and J209 are part of every one of those switches. But in the manual, J207 only has one wire going to it, and J209 only has two wires going into it. Also, my machine has nothing hooked up to J207. There is a loose wire that should be hooked up to it, but it was the one I mentioned earlier that was just had the end electric taped when I picked it up.

It actually looks like what is listed on the switch matrix sheet is wrong. According to page 3-25 of the manual, the wires that the top row is describing is not J207 but J208. And the wires that the first column is describing as J209 is actually J206. Is it possible the manual is wrong???

When I look at the manual for Demolition Man, the first switch matrix row and column is described matching the right things under its CPU Board Assembly page. Row 1 describes 207 green brown and in the manual 207 is green brown

Look at this picture: JohnnyNEW.jpg

This is supposedly a new Johnny Mnemonic CPU board. In the manual on page 3-25, it says J206 has 8 white wires --- J207 has 1 green wire --- J208 has 7 green wires, and J209 has 2 white.

This picture shows my 207 plugged into 208, my 208 plugged into 207, my 209 plugged into 206, my 206 plugged into 209.

Is it possible that my wiring is just plugged in all wrong due to the manual? Can someone take a picture of their JM CPU board for me?

#77 4 years ago

Mot I owe you some beer. Thanks a lot for explaining all of that.

#80 4 years ago

Ah sheeeeeit.

#86 4 years ago

I'm not positive, no. I didn't take the batteries off. However, that's not mine. That's a pic from google. Here's a picture of mine.

image1.jpg

image2.jpg

#87 4 years ago

And now I realize that that picture has my J206 in the J207 slot and my J208 in the J209 slot.

Shit, my 206 and 208 are backwards.

Dude if that's the problem, I will be forever labeled idiot on these boards

#89 4 years ago

facepalm.jpg

#91 4 years ago

I've checked those connections so many times but I thought 6 and 8 on the board were in the opposite spots.

I'll see what switching them does when I get home.

#92 4 years ago
Quoted from mot:

AHHH! Now I'm convinced there is a typo in the manual. J206 and J208 are mismatched on page 3-25 from how they are in the photo!
Nonetheless, the two column drive connectors are the same. The two row drive connectors are the same.

So I actually do have them hooked up right according to page 3-25. Regardless, yes I'm having a version of "fun." Every mistake I'm making is one I won't make next time, and I guess learning is "fun."

#93 4 years ago

Alright, I only had 5 minutes to check out the table. The reason why that initial error must have gone away is that I hooked it up right last night.

So it's hooked up correct, and I have the screen that I linked to up a few posts. All of the cyber matrix works so that row is not completely blown out.

Here's the weird thing. Switch 24 is open. When I hit the start button, the square on the dmd for switch 24 lights up, but no switch is listed. When I let go of the start button, it says switch 24 was the last pressed switch.

Definitely seems like something messed up with the wiring. Il look into it when I get home tonight.

#95 4 years ago

IMG_0206.JPG

I don't know how to thank you guys. You spent time looking at manuals and reading these bullshit posts and I couldn't appreciate it more!

We were testing the continuity of J212 to J3 and everything seemed like it should. I was tracing the lines back and noticed something seemed off about J5. Well I've reseated this thing 3 times so I didn't think it was that. I pulled the connector off and noticed that there was kinks on the pins towards the bottom of the pins. I straightened them all out and pushed the J5 connector back down, quickly reconnected everything and powered on. Can't believe it.

I think what happened is when I had J206 and J208 backwards and was messing with the coin door, I must have screwed that up. Then when we got the CPU board back to where it should, I was getting the other issues from a f'ed up J5.

I'm glad this was fixed without soldering (which I'm going to start practicing on some old mobos I have laying around). But I was saying yesterday that I was kind of glad there was issues with it before I had a chance to play it because it gave a lot of motivation to get in there and start learning some of this stuff. Well, now it's working. I wouldn't have learned any of this shit without you guys and I really appreciate it. You'll have to give me some addresses and I'll send some beer in the mail!

Thanks again!

#97 4 years ago

I'm not sure what Zaza is saying or where that picture is from, but J3 was in the correct spot. Like he says, due to the key pin you can't put it in the wrong spot. I think I either messed J5 up yanking it off or trying to put it back on blind.

Anyway, there's still an issue or two with it, but that's a battle for later.

Thanks again Mot

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